/biz/ - Business & Finance

because you don't need the banks to buy it yourself or store it

You know if I ever make it I'm going to buy a 1kg bar of gold and keep it in my home safe, it just looks so cool

everyone can just look and see how much there is and what addresses have it.

>>29066624
you don't need banks to buy or store gold either
they're already making Bitcoin ETFs, obviously (((they))) will do the same shit they always do and print more paper than assets

>>29066837
But how many people will? How many even understand that? They already have been duped into thinking SLV = physical silver.

they will definitely try to do something similar, but it might not be as effective since buying bitcoin is a lot easier than buying physical gold/silver

>>29067084
you can just go to a bullion dealer and swipe a card vs. needing to take 7 pictures of yourself with your ID card in your pooper and then waiting a week

>>29066504
>5000
Its 180-~~500x not 1:5k
>paper btc
Basically nothing, welcome to mainstream adoption

>>29067084
>since buying bitcoin is a lot easier than buying physical gold/silver
Try telling that to boomers

>>29066746
Same but I'm doing silver

Just shame the idea of owning paper BTC. Not your keys, not your crypto. Simple as that.

>>29067029
what kind of retard logic is this? fake paper silver works because nobody knows for sure how much there is and who has it. you literally cannot do this with bitcoin. if an etf pretends to have it but doesn't, then they will be absolutely fucked when the price goes down and people try to sell.

>>29066746
gold is beautiful man. It's a pleasure just to hold and look at it. And when you do you're really struck by the reality of how meaningless our dollars are.

>>29066837
The boomers who buy through grayscale & ETFs will never bother. Since most people buying to self-custody will withdraw from exchanges , the order books will be thin and the price could easily be controlled by paper market trading.

>>29066504
They're already doing exactly that.

>inb4 "huh? but then why is the price over 50k?"
I'm talking about Bitcoin, which is what you asked about.

>>29067486
>if an etf pretends to have it but doesn't, then they will be absolutely fucked when the price goes down and people try to sell.

Like Robinhood they will simply have clauses that say you don't actually own the asset, just a derivative tied to the price. Like Paypal/mastercard/etc they'll say you're not able to withdraw.

>>29067998
sure, but what happens when everone sells at once and they don't actually have the asset backing the derivative? they are out a fuckton of money they may not actually have.

nobody's stupid enough to short BTC because number only goes up...

>>29068600
they're not obligated to pay out any real crypto and they just settle at whatever the spot price is.

its funny how all the BTCkiddies were saying its an alternative to the traditional financial system. Now trad finance is starting to control BTC through paper contracts and not even on a blockchain LMAO

>>29069284
BTC was always about buying drugs
now we have monero

>>29069284
>sorry but we have to trade offchain because 7 tps is too slow :^)

>>29067899
Yeah I think they are to an extent. What if a spread develops between btc ETF NAV/share and btc you can send to a wallet?

>>29068948
Basically this. BTC derivatives will exist for the rest of time, including cefi btc derivatives. Synthetic btc is easy to make if you have sufficient parties interested.

>>29069438
this the only reason Im insanely wealthy is I used to buy lsd for 350 btc a hit back in the day.

>>29066504
>What is to stop banks from infinitely shorting "paper" bitcoin like they do gold/silver?
1.Bitcoin is a public ledger, so everyone can actually see how much real BTC they hold
2.Stablecoins. They can just print a gorillion of USDT and liquidate the shorts. The exchanges have infinite money cheat and they won't like wall street boomers threading on their turf.

>>29066504
Problem with gold and silver is the amount of people who just want to trade the price fluctuations with out ever having to take physical delivery, because liquidating physical from your vault is not as easy for obvious reasons. You can easily hold all the bitcoin and trade on any exchanges so less need for derivatives, however boomers who don't know how to purchase bitcoins might be opting for a derivates form of it.

>>29071762
i'll explain further for those who don't get it yet. Because banks know the majority of people will never ask for delivery of the physical, they can somewhat safely create a lot more paper than actual silver because people would never be able to know the difference. Similar to fractional reserve lending, until the majority of people start asking for their physical, similar to a bank run.

>>29066904
>buy or store gold either
yeah you do. the last guys who tried to make a bank or buy enough gold and silver to compete got suicided by shotgun to the chest 3 times

>>29072068
>Because banks know the majority of people will never ask for delivery of the physical, they can somewhat safely create a lot more paper than actual silver because people would never be able to know the difference.

But Grayscale/RH/mastercard/etc. can do the same thing. They just state in ToS that there's no withdrawals and wallah, there can never be a bank run on them.

>>29070467
for real, and you're just a buyer. There have to have been tons of dealers on silk road, silk road 2, even agora who had tens of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin that is now worth hundreds of millions.

>>29067416
Now try to use your BTC
Gold and silver are vastly easier to cash out, accepted everywhere and no one asks questions like "to bruh where did that $30k come from?" because you settle in cash.
Why do you think big banks want full cashless?

>>29066904
You don't, but kind of do because holding your own physical gold or silver has insane overheads.
>want a nice bar or coin
pay extra overhead for the minting service
>want to ship
pay extra overhead for handling and shipping service
>want to pay with card
pay extra overhead for payment processing
>want to buy small quantity
pay extra overhead just because
It's only worth it for long term investment.

>>29066504
>this is used to suppress the price infinitely.
what is the purpose of this kikery?

>>29072452
yes, but bitcoin is volatile, and if it spikes in price and they have to settle in cash then that could harm them

>>29066504
My ancestor :)

>>29073418
Rising prices on PM signals weakness/lack of faith in economy, which they want to hide so they can keep propagandizing about 2% inflation and 6% unemployment.

>>29073858
>Rising prices on PM signals weakness/lack of faith in economy, which they want to hide so they can keep propagandizing about 2% inflation and 6% unemployment.
thank you
how much in % should be gold in a portfolio?

>>29066504
infinity is a long time anon, you think shorting silver is a long term strategy?

>>29067899
shut the fuck up retarded nigger

>>29074381
Just have to keep it going until the great reset

>>29066504
>Estimates are that there are about 5000 oz of "paper" silver for each ounce of real silver
don't believe idiots anon.

>>29066904
we can't audit a silver trezors but bitcoin is a public blockchain if an etf claims they purchased 50000 btc and we see no such movement we know it's bullshit.

>>29074991
the fine print will say they're only trading derivatives and no one will care

>>29067703
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements
silver is actually more rare tan gold
tantalum is the rarest of the platina group
mercury is rarer than tantalum
bismuth lol

>>29074280
Didnt you read the thread you dumbass? Obviously none. Theyre manipulating it and the Regulators are in on it. Gold is dead

>>29075182
yeah sure nobody will care. the only reason why anyone buys "paper" metals is because they are inconvenient to store and expensive to transport and handle. also very hard to verify for yourself.

no such problems with crypto. the derivatives will be companies with bitcoin in the treasury tho.

Bitcoin miner stocks are the best performing stock this year by fucking FAR. RIOT and MARA have done like 5,000% this year, and both miners just do nothing but increase hashing power and sell more bitcoin

>>29075619
>the only reason why anyone buys "paper" metals is because they are inconvenient to store
>no such problems with crypto.

ANON What's the deal with all these long strings of random letters and numbers
What the hell is a private key
This is too complicated
I'll just buy some grayscale stocks

>>29066504
Gold and silver as the underlying commodities don't exist on a permissionless decentralized network that any one can access. The entire volume of crypto can be traded by anyone, meaning the price will always reflect the market price of people actually buying and selling it, as opposed to gold/silver where the market price of derivatives have become the de facto price of the underlying.

>>29076004
Get with the times, boomer. Crypto these days is represented by 12/24 English words.

>>29076004
it's not more complicated than email anyhow

>>29076004
>I'll just buy some grayscale stocks
so why do satellite companies that trade bitcoins mean btc down?

>>29076874
because they can sell btc that doesn't exist with infinite face paper

>>29077311
>because they can sell btc that doesn't exist with infinite face paper
you mean selling stocks of the company?

>>29077575
no I mean selling a derivative contract that is tied to the price of btc but isn't actually backed by btc

>>29066504
Robin hood sells paper bitcoin.

>>29066504
The flow. Paper gold is possible because flow of 2% pa can be used to meet any demand and that flow increases each year by 2% on that 2%. Bitcoin’s flow falls every four years, making it far harder to scam paper holders just by mining more

>>29077734
if there is a retard that buys it they can sell it i guess

>>29080624
there are retards buying it every day

>>29066746
are you me?

>>29080717
that's their problem