/biz/ - Business & Finance

Aren't stocks supposed to be an indicator of the overall health of the economy though, at least under ideal circumstances? What reason do stocks have to be doing so well in 2021

because it takes 1 day to get 100% gains in shitcoin. we don't have times for 5 year

30%/week is considered stable gains for shitcoins. Like not gonna dumb on you stable.

>>29008510
yeah, maybe if I had a billion dollars, lmao.

>>29008493
>What reason do crypto coins have to be doing so well in 2021

>>29008277
The gains are good, the timeframe is bad. Crypto moves much faster.

>>29008493
>Aren't stocks supposed to be an indicator of the overall health of the economy
They were, until he government started artificially supporting stock prices with “free money” and bailouts. Now it’s just a race to get what you can beige the wheels come off this shitty global economy.

>>29008493
Stocks are an indicator of no such thing
They're a commodity traded like any other asset, they are an indicator of "did a lot of people buy" and "did a lot of people sell" and not much else

>>29008277
Because they're still denominated in dollars and cents and not bits and sats

>>29008277
>5 years for a 2x
you can do that with a low cap token in a couple days. even with just bitcoin you can do that in a month during a bull cycle. 2x in 5 years is a big opportunity cost.

>>29008277

CLF especially

https://stocktwits.com/symbol/CLF

In January my portfolio was 12k

It's now 7400.

Fuck the stock market.

>>29008493
Notwithstanding all the black pills, if you look around you and go by the scientific metrics: (outside of covid year) people are more educated, technology has really delivered what the dot com bubble promised 20 years ago, we have invested a lot in capital goods, and crime has fallen over all. Don't get me wrong, the stock market crashes every 10 years and will continue to do so, but we're more productive than ever

>>29008675
What's so bad about that? Let me guess you missed out?

My penny stock has done 3000%.

>>29008797
found the reddit fag

>>29008493
it's a speculative market, it's not a gauge of how well the economy is doing, it is a gauge of how well people think the economy will do in the future
we had a massive sell off last year before we felt any consequences from the pandemic because people foresaw the economy turning bad, now people foresee it turning good with vaccines, opening back up, etc. so they are throwing their money at it which makes it goes up

>>29008817
>and crime has fallen over all.

More like mortality has decreased.

I'm just waiting on the next big crash to get in

Stocks are pretty easy if you know what to look for. You aren't going to see huge gains on the blue chips, but there's so many newer companies that shoot up over every little piece of news. Especially right now with so much money flowing around. If I had a huge stack, I'd just dump 1k each on like 25 companies and expect to get a nice return as long as no entire market crash.

>>29008277
The stock market got propped up last year by the Feds Inflate-a-dollars. Most countries have been printing money to counteract the economic damage from the virus. Once its over people are going to realize that their savings and salary are worth half of what it was.

>>29009035
>as long as no entire market crash
it's just a matter of time now. once all the helicopter money stops getting printed and the eviction moratorium is ended, and people realize there are no jobs to go back to.

>>29009035
Unironically this
It's the easiest it has ever been to make money in the stock market since it is only going up thanks to ridiculous stimmies

>>29008277
>over 100% in 5 years

ok now compare that to inflation of other asset prices, particularly housing. consider monetary expansion.

>>29008277
>100% in 5 years
lol

>>29008600
This doesn't even make sense. You can invest $1 and still get 100% gains.....

>>29009115
>Once its over people are going to realize that their savings and salary are worth half of what it was.

That's an argument for stocks, not against them. We reap massive gains and wagecucks and savers hold the bag.

>>29008675
>until he government started artificially supporting stock prices
I wouldn't go that far. It is more that people are just likely to invest in things when they otherwise cannot spend their money directly.

>>29008277
>100% ..5years
my crypto up 100% last hour.

>>29008894
>>and crime has fallen over all.
>More like mortality has decreased.
Isn't it both? I suppose your proposition is that as life expectancy goes up so does "wealth" and investments? I believe life expectancy is actually stagnate if not decreasing on average?

>>29008277
My portfolio goes up and down 50% in the time it takes me to piss. Stocks dont give me that high

>>29008797
I doubled my port in stocks in 2 years from 7k to 14k. I since moved over to crypto and put in some more capital and now have 70% crypto gains for 20k crypto and 7k stocks.
Make better choices and stop blaming others. The weak blame outside forces. The strong take responsibility for their success/failure.

>>29008277
> up over 100% in 5 years
> 15% this year alone
Cringe.

>>29008888
Replace 'economy' with 'corporate landscape' and I agree. Many people realize that the stock market does not reflect small business performance. Therefore not being a true representation of the economy.

>>29009115
>The stock market got propped up last year by the Feds Inflate-a-dollars.
That would inflate every asset from stocks, houses, bitcoin, silver, etc. Hardly an argument against stocks.

>>29008948
There are more of you than there ever has been. And being someone currently already vested, that feels good.
Your hunger means a faster rebound if I get caught.
That also means a smaller window for you, and me to buy/buy the dip.

>>29009913
>stock market does not reflect small business performance
Most? Small businesses are privately owned. So sure, they aren't corporations with stocks so of course they aren't fully represented.

>>29009257
Chainlink has done 168x in 4 years. Not a 2x in 5 years

>>29008277
Once you realize the potential profit gains in crypto, you will understand.
The numbers you state means clearly you haven't been around very long in crypto.
Honestly the volatility is hard to fathom initially, especially if you've been grounded in return/loss the stock market typically produces.
Lurk more. Figure out real talk vs a pajeet shiller/fudder.

>>29010461
They have increased. But do you really believe that btc will ever reach 100k? That would require literally tens of millions of normans investing in something that still requires technical know how to own without risking loss.

we like some stocks

>15%
>in a fucking year
I don't get out of bed for less than 15% a WEEK. Why do you think I'm leveraged to my fucking eyeballs in options spreads?

The absolute short sighted retardation in this thread is one hell of a blackpill. Fucking degenerate poorfag niggers. Yeah bro just pour $3 million into niggercoin finance instead of the S&P 500, nothing can go wrong dude promise

>>29010216
thanks sherlock

>>29010693
>do you really believe that btc will ever reach 100k

it's inevitable. it will be far beyond that in 3-4 years.

>>29010693
Honestly there's more of an argument with people simply not selling rather than more people constantly investing
I would have said that 20k was the peak for Bitcoin in 2018 and that it would literally never go higher, but now I would be surprised if it never hit 100k

>>29008510
Kek
This

>>29010889
>I can not manage risk this high so it must be stupid
Ok, boomer.

>>29010985
>it's inevitable. it will be far beyond that in 3-4 years.
Unless it just breaks as a protocol. What about quantum computing? What about black swan hacks.

>>29011088
>Honestly there's more of an argument with people simply not selling rather than more people constantly investing
I get that. Hell I mined for a couple months back in the day and had like 15 of the things but that is beyond lost. My point is that as more people lose it, the less confidence they will have in the system. BTC in its current form is not recoverable. What happens when someone dies? It doesn't get passed on to heirs. It just disappears and is gone forever. What happens if your account is hacked? It is gone. What about if you forget your password keys? Shit out of luck. Grandpa gets dementia? Fuck you.

>>29011504
Oh yeah I agree; Bitcoin isn't sustainable but investors are going megaretarded and looking for gains because traditional markets aren't providing them
I was 100% behind BTC as a currency, but it never caught on because it wasn't as convenient as legacy methods. Now it's a speculative commodity and everyone wants a piece of the pie, while there is one.
Frankly I'm disgusted by the bastardization of crypto but ride the tiger

>>29011360
Fuck off newfag zoomer nigger

>>29011504
Look on jobs at LinkedIn and people with experience in the area of third party custody and private banking around blockchain services and you will see that this area is in very high demand.

My consultancy is paying huge amounts to the right people and still can’t hire enough (because anyone in the know doesn’t need to work anymore) to keep up with demand.

>>29008277
Stocks have too much regulation faggotry behind them, they’re only open certain hours, you never have full control over your money. If you get arrested or the IRS comes after you they can take all your shit.

Stocks are cucked.

>r/wsb likes to meme stonks, but btc is up over 12000% in 5 years and over 75% just this year alone. Why does r/wsb hate it?

>>29008277
Because bitcoin alone is up 12,311% five years to date.

>>29011652
>tfw 8 years of crypto experience but in the middle of post-secondary
Is it hot enough that I'll effectively get a waiver?

>>29011652
I am a software engineer and am unfamiliar in the area. But wouldn't it be easy as all fuck? Just have a 3rd party store the keys? But that is still trusting a 3rd party with the full ability to rip you off.

>>29008277
/biz/ is too poor for stocks. literally everyone who isn't upper middle class or higher is priced out of stocks, and the stock market is literally the biggest bubble in financial history right now. when covid protections are lifted, it will probably crash at least 20-30%

>>29008277
I have my non-meme money in stonks.

>>29008797

Jesus Christ imagine losing money in this market how dense do you have to be.

>>29008277
I'M JUST WAITING FOR THE MOTHER OF ALL BURSTS TO JUMP IN

>>29011988
>priced out of stocks

How can a particular class be priced out of a divisible asset?

>>29011988
>it will probably crash at least 20-30%
That is certainly possible if not likely, but I do wonder how that weighs against the current rates of inflation. Unless the US does really fall to the China world dominance meme, the stock market is unlikely to lose value permanently ala Japan.

>>29008277
I only trade stocks bonds and forex

>>29012148
stop being retarded. the wealth gap in this country is completely out of control and regular people don't even have disposable income to throw at the market

>>29012414
>why aren't they buying diamonds
anyone with a brain knows that they're a retardedly overpriced stone

>>29012487
OVERPRICED LIKE THE SCAM MARKET

>>29012487
i hope you're being retarded on purpose. you really can't be this dense

>>29011865
Normies don't care about decentralization or trustlessness. I don't think they can even comprehend something like bitcoin offering any utility other than number go up. 3rd party handling of bitcoin will be extremely lucrative.

>>29012314
see guys the market generally trends upwards over 114 years! Ignore the multiple periods of 0 returns for decades at a time!
What's the big deal on missing out on a few decades of wealth? Lump sum invest TODAY!

>>29012414
>regular people don't even have disposable income to throw at the market
Naw. I know regular people like my sister who make near minimum wage. It isn't that they can't afford to invest. It is that they refuse to try. Instead they opt out of retirement savings to go on vacations, and spend on credit cards to buy things they don't need.

>>29008797
try not buying amc at the peak next time lol

>>29012585
>he doesn't know about the DeBeers warehouses

>>29009541
100% in 5 years with stocks.
vs. ONE day in shitcoins (Over 5 years. A x1826 increase with a perfect selection rate)
What exactly are you not understanding here nigger?

>>29008277
Go take your Metamucil, gramps. We /degenerategamblers/ now.

>>29008493
Asset bubble. Your crypto is worthless too

>>29008277
it's a meme dude. A good deal of people here actually have both

>>29008633
cause they’re pegged against fiat which is being printed in the trillions retard
did you think you had a good argument?

>>29008277
>100% in 5 years
GRT just did 2,000% in less than 2 months

If you invested in bitcoin miners instead of crypto this bull run you'd be up like 1600x with shares alone.

>>29012585
what's your angle? Diamonds are not rare and can be artificially created. They're expensive as a racket, because of artificially limited supply, that's all

>>29013006
Delete this.

>>29012961
>Asset bubble. Your crypto is worthless too
The one advantage of crypto is that its value is determined at a world level rather then, mostly, country level of the stock market.

>>29008277
IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN FED GIVES UP AND STOPS INJECING MAGIC BUCKS OR WHEN INJECTING DOESN'T WORK ANMORE. IT'S GONNA BE WORSE THAN 1930

>>29013030
my angle was a meme image showing why normal people are priced out of the stock market. half the country can't cover a $400 emergency expense. i swear you all might actually be autistic

A lot of /biz/ is just young people speculating and chasing gains and getting rich quickly.

Crypto is new (compared to stocks) and less regulated so much more opportunity to generate wealth by buying the right token at the right time.

>>29013093
Is that good? Or does it just make it even worse because almost every country is engaged in massive amounts of money printing and feeding into the same asset class?

>>29008277
>waiting 5 years for a 2x
ngmi

>>29013398
its not even a guaranteed 2x... even 10% a year APY isn't a sure thing lmao

>>29008277
THE SCAM MARKET WOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY COLLAPSED LONG TIME AGO W/O THE PRINTING MACHINE. THE FED IS ONLY POSTPONING ITS INEVITABLE DEAD. IT IS AN ILLUSION

>>29013786
so what should I do with my portifolio to ensure i'll be financially set?

>>29008797
That's what happens when you're too dumb to stay ahead of the markets. If you can't do trading then just invest into the idiot proof S&P 500; ETFs are guaranteed stable gains.

>>29012314
>the market always goes up priced in dollars
>conveniently ignores the fact that dollars alway go down
The stock market actually goes through decades long bear markets compared to any real asset and the bottom was in 1990, assuming we don't make a new low after this shit has properly hit the fan

>>29008797
>Make bad picks
>Blame the market

At least make up a story of how it wasn't your fault.

>>29013942
after the crypto bullrun ends, convert to stablecoins and lend on aave for way better apy than you will find at any bank. might want to consider putting some into silver as well.

>>29011988
>when restrictions are lifted, it will crash
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm clueless about this shit, but why would lifting restrictions make it crash when putting in the restrictions made them crash in the first place?

>>29013942
>>29014239
also, after about 1 year after the peak of the bull market start stacking your crypto portfolio again.

>>29013656
kek
>>29014166
yeah I'll try... "My mom's boyfriend forced me to invest in bank and financials call options because he's a banker."

>>29008277
>100% in 5 years
nigga I got into BCS three days ago and I'm already 300% up

>>29014239
desu this
once the memeshit economy ends you can farm DeFi rates with stablecoins and blow the fuck out of conventional finance

>>29014363
naw man, DeFi yields will plummet as more big boys move into the space. This corporate treasury shit will destroy yields.

>>29011988
Why do you think restrictions will be lifted? Even if vaccines for covid are successful. Just look at how well the restrictions have eliminated other causes of death. The common flu is basically gone. So many other forms of death have gone down significantly. This shit is here to stay. Will a company risk even 1% increased mortality rate of workers by requiring them to come into some central office every day even tho it costs the company more money to rent or buy that office?

>>29014467
I don't doubt it but I'll take what I can while I can

>>29014293
>>29014508
the gov is printing infinite money daily and no one is paying back their loans because they are jobless and struggling. interest rates are near zero. unemployment rate is worse than the great depression. no one can be evicted or foreclosed on. non-banks are still writing gorillians of dollars in high risk low down payment loans so people can continue to buy houses at inflated prices. it's literally impossible for the market to go down right now, until the gravy train stops. they might just keep it going forever too. i didn't say "restrictions" i sad protections as in financial protections

>>29012314
meanwhile BTC did that shitin 5% of the time

>>29008277
100% over five years is fucking pathetic, just one of my shitcoins does that in a week. Stocks only make sense if you are a boomer who is afraid of risk or are rich enough that you want to diversify/hold them for the dividends.

>>29014571
So you did. Huh. That makes sense, but it's also pretty wild.

>>29008277
I put 40K in Jan 2020 on HIVE, which is based in Vancouver and BCbros are cool, and it has gone up 1300%, I kid you not. No crypto could have matched that growth in 2020-2021, and this is a crypto mining company so it did benefit from the crypto boost.

>>29014467
dude, people still think Bitcoin is just used to buy drugs and you think corporate money is moving to fucking Pancake swap?

>>29008277
We hate money here
Buy high, sell low faggot

>>29008797
You lost money?

>>29008277
Most of these faggots would be in jail if they messed around with stocks. crypto is unregulated at the moment. SEC has no control over it.

>>29016184
Yeah like Antshares, they’ll just rebrand. It’s just a name. Maybe it sticks and some F500s 1099 says Pancakes on it big deal

>>29008277
>100% in 5 years
lmao. i turned $2500 into $50000 in 4 years by following biz memes and avoiding pajeet scams.

>>29008277
because the people here are fucking retarded buying things that have literally no value because they want a get rich ponzi scheme which is only possible in crypto scams

>>29008277
can't make those sweet 2x's at 3am with stocks

Stocks is old shit, already figured out and gamed by the big boys.

>>29008277
Alex, I'll take inflation for $1000

>>29012792
why does it matter if he has a billion dollar or not

the 100% gain isn't gonna change no matter what the underlying value is

>>29008277
100%? That's cute. I'm up 2000% on chainlink.

>>29011504
>Unless it just breaks as a protocol. What about quantum computing? What about black swan hacks.
If you break SHA-256 you will break the entire internet, not just Bitcoin. Luckily there's a massive community of geniuses dedicating their time to making Bitcoin the best store of value in human history.

I'm a stock fag, can someone please explain to a retard like me the value of BTC (or any other crypto coin) without referencing its value to the $? I mean you zoomers keep saying it will replace fiat money because for the gov, yet you value all those shitcoins with fiat money/buy them with fiat money. So honest question, are zoomers fucking retarded or am I for missing something?

It's not hatred. When you get down to talking about what's stocks are performing better etc, bring any crypto into question and it tops it.

>>29008510
This

>>29008833
>Printing money you don't get
>What's so bad anon
kys

>>29008493
0% interest loans buy up all the dips, unless this changes stocks will stay perma bull

>>29013377
I'd love to know the answer to this, I thought crypto and precious metals were a hedge against inflation and fiat in general. If the entire planets monetary systems fail then, don't kind of none of them fail at the same time? As you can see I'm a brainlet please help.