/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>284869
Someone has to care for the machines.

>>284869

Well it will happen sooner than people think. I mean self driving cars are going to start being released around 2020 or so. Given 10 years of improvements, the human equation will be removed putting out 14 million or so truck drivers out of work. Then goes the taxi drivers.

Considering there aren't enough Wal Mart greeter jobs to replace all those, things will start to have to happen.

I mean my career goal is simply to be automated last at this point.

The problem is that even if humans work for free, machines do the job with less mistakes and faster AKA better.

So if you work minimum wage now, prepare your anus!

This'll be when we see a basic income. When supply outweighs demand so much that minimal requirements to live are 'worthless' from a financial standpoint.

Maybe McDonalds will finally get my order right more than 50% of the time.

>>284881

Yeah but do you think one machine will be serviced by the 12 McDonalds employees it replaced or by a single contract employee who travels between 12 different stores with each a machine when things go wrong.

Also, do you think those McDonald's employees are going to be able to afford to go back to college to get that robotic engineering degree?

On the bright side, I too look forward to my order being right 50% of the time.

>>284869
>only 80% of working population can be employed

Son, something like 30% of people can't (or have given up) finding jobs. We're well past the 80% mark.

Things will get serious when, as >>284895 mentioned, driving becomes completely automated. I believe fast food automation will follow close to the same timeline. When we have no trucking jobs, no fast food jobs, and no taxi jobs, then shit will start to get serious.

And I can't wait to see what happens.

You'll see a "living wage" paid by the government. That's about it.

>>284919
McDonalds employees are already worthless. Both economically and socially.

>>285002
>Both economically and socially.

>Taxed income and retail spending are worthless

>work in a factory
>don't understand why I'm not automated already

W-we'll always need inspectors, r-right guys?

You're probably going to see unskilled individuals living in something very similar to the system that people with developmental disabilities exist in:

>Live in a 2-3 bedroom home that belongs to and is taken care of by some outside entity (be it the state or an independent nonprofit), often with roommates.
>Recieve weekly check for living expenses (either in the form of EBT or straight cash)
>Have internet access, a cellphone, and cable (retards' choice -- they buy it with their tugboat $$$)
>Health expenses covered by state-issued insurance. Most health-related decisions (diet, prescriptions, doctors' appointments, exercise, bed-time, etc.) decided by an outside entity (usually an "advocate" appointed by the state)
>Transported to a day rehabilitation facility (read: daycare) from 9-3 each day for socializing, "intellectually enriching" activities, and "outings" (read: going to WalMart to stock up on soda and dry-erase markers)
>State-issued "work" several days a week: some menial task in a "workshop" so they don't realize they are the ulcer of society

But, if our social engineers of tomorrow are smart, there will be aspects of the lower-class welfare lifestyle as well:
>diet consists of cheap GOYA trash and addictive prescription drugs
>Diet induces sterility, lethargy, and cancer
>Bottom castes of society quietly die off without offspring

Better get your professional and networking games in gear, lest you end up on the wrong end of tomorrow's brave new world!

80%?

>>285002
>i make fun of low payed low skill workers to make myself feel better..

If they had zero worth, they wouldn't exist dumb fuck

>>284881
One person will care for multiple machines. The result is a net loss of jobs.

After all, if automation wasn't efficient, it wouldn't be replacing actual workers, would it?

The process of automation will require massive amounts of highly skilled and educated people to maintain it. its ultimately very good for society

Scary thread, guys. What a sad statement to say, but "I'm glad I'm not 20 anymore".

What's this goddamn world coming to?

>>285099
Only if all of society benefits from the transition. And it's just foolish to think that an automated economy will employ as many humans in dignified labor as an economy powered by human bodies.

The lazy minimum wage slobs that people like to make fun of are the same people who would have had respectable blue collar factory jobs forty years ago. Joe Sixpack wasn't a sophisticated or particularly motivated guy; just a regular guy who showed up for work from 9-5 and got a ticket to the middle class.

I can only hope that if/when a basic income becomes the norm, it leads to people pursuing their passions in life and getting involved with the world instead of just tuning out and surfing 4chan forever.

the cost of a hamburger will plummet. meaning even if you are unemployed, you will still be able to buy from mcdonalds.

>>284869
Guaranteed basic incone or...plutocratic distatorship

i don't know why french frie making isn't automated already. making hamburgers takes a little finesse; fries are just grunt work.

>>285480
As far as I know fast food is completely automated right now. Probably no one is implementing it now because of the implications.

I think about this all the time OP. There are a bunch of points you need to consider:

>We have been automating for a long time
There are already a lot of people that effectively have no place in modern society. They could never possibly hope to keep up with us. Black people in africa. A lot of south america. Abos in australia. Most of the middle east. Historically, they are left to starve with little if any outside support.

>All jobs will be automated
You seem to think only unskilled labor is under the axe. This is not true. They are already teaching IBMs Watson supercomputer how to be a doctor. Dentistry will eventually be made obsolete by gene therapy. Every job you can think of, even decision making jobs, will become automated within 40 years, probably within 25 years. The world will basically seperate into those that have wealth and those that dont.

>Unemployed people riot if their numbers get large enough
You can see this in the arab spring with their 50% youth unemployment. You will also see radicalization, extremism, etc.

>Corporations are always more efficient than government
You cant force them to pay tax, and its getting harder and harder to squeeze money out of them. Corporations are much more tech savvy, have a better handle on legal issues and change than any government organization. Tax loopholes, offshore companies, etc means they can avoid paying tax. Government cant change this fact.

>Drone warfare means you can rule a military without the support of the populace, or anyone else for that matter
If things get bad enough you will be droned to death, and there wont be shit you can do about it.

I dont really know what all of this means, but im pretty sure the human race is not going to survive it. The few elites remaining will be too few to maintain the population.

My best advice is to buy a gun. There will be class warfare, and maybe a gun will come in handy.

>>284881
there will come a point when the machines will care for themselves and self-repair

>>285000
lol like the government actually gives a shit and how could they possibly afford to pay that

One thing I always wonder about in these scenarios is who are all the ultra wealthy going to be selling their goods to if nobody has a job? Other wealthy people only consume so much. It seems profits would go down.

>>285563
>kill off all the poorfags
>realize there are no consumers or wage slaves anymore
>start managed utopia ala star trek, just like all the poorfags wanted you to in the first place
>???
>Profit!

>force vasectomy/castration for men/women of poorfag class in exchange for a baseline salary to live a comfy life
>slowly kill off all poor fags
genetically fuck the human race completely.

>>285017
>If they had zero worth, they wouldn't exist dumb fuck

While I don't share that opinion about these workers, this is actually not true. It is like saying severely disabled or old and lonely people are not worth zero to the economy, because they exist.

In reality it is very possible for people to exist and have zero worth, this is what happens when you are unemployed actually. And no, unemployed are not contributing to wages decrease or anything with actual monetary value. Nothing happens if I add 100 more unemployed, if there are already many of them. That is because people cannot live on income lower than food value.

>>285570
>unemployed have no value
Unless they are raising children to be useful members of society. Or caring for the dying and destitute, so that the predicament of our mortality becomes bearable. Or living off the grid and providing value only to themselves and their conspecifics.

And obviously, there is the question of "valuable to whom". Many people are paid great salaries to do... not much. Or to do jobs that actively make things worse for everybody, including the dopes who "profit" from their labor.

>>285543

Simple, they'll just print more money or make shit up which is what they've been doing for years. The entire global financial system is a sham anyway, it's all held up by duct tape and fucking bubblegum.

A lot of people will probably die off as well due to resource scarcity and population will level out. Things aren't looking good for the future of the human race. I truly pity kids being born now, they'll have no shot.

>>285585
That is not real unemployment. Most of those things are also paid jobs, but done "for free" and can be considered an economical contribution.

When I am thinking about zero worth, it means worth money to anyone, and I think people worth nothing (or even having negative value) in this context actually exist.

I am distraught by this prospect (fact of the future)..
Help, advice, /biz/

Which profession do you think will last the longest? I am a NEET desperate to find a professional path in my life.

I always fantasized about technology taking over when I was a kid, but now I see its true implications.

Well, people use to work 5 am to 9 pm 6 days a week, then the industrial revolution happened, turned it into 9-5 5 days a week. When automation takes full effect (it will take a long time by the way), people will again work less. People love money, but most people love free time more.

>>285617
>Which profession do you think will last the longest? I am a NEET desperate to find a professional path in my life.

I think that this is the ticket to inevitable obsolescence, and everyone seems to be doing it. When you choose to get a specialized, job-focused education, you're just asking to be eventually replaced by an automated process -- you may be in demand early on, and even have a good paycheck, but industry leaders will be desperately looking for ways to automate your role in the process. And when that happens, you're fucked because, beyond the basics of your field, that's all you know how to do.

Code monkeys and web designers are a great example. They're slowly being phased out -- retail software does their job just as well, and is user-friendly enough for the employers themselves to use. Read "The Adding Machine" by Elmer Rice -- it should be required reading in today's public schools.

My advice: *always* have plans to continue your education, beyond applied concepts. Want to be an accountant or technician? Go ahead -- it's solid money for now, especially with the right connections. But keep your sights on a BA, and then a PhD, and make a name for yourself in research.

Can't people just become investors with the poor pooling their money into collective investing pools? That way people can work less and still get a good piece of the pie.

>>285617
Medicine. Humans are still needed to diagnose because human patients are fucking retarded.

Robots may perform surgeries, but a human is still needed to evaluate and diagnose

>do you have any medical problems anon?
no
>do you take any medications anon?
haldol, adderall, jenuva, lopressor
>I thought you just said you didnt have any medical problems
oh yeah I guess, i thought you meant like cancer or stds

>>285753
So diversify and prepare for changes. Thank you for the advice.

More focuses on services. We used to have people pick cotton. Now we have machines that do it better. It didn't end the world.

>>286032
No, don't diversify -- become an authority on something. Diversification will just be an existence of scrambling to whatever foxhole hasn't been automatized yet.

The best scenario you could find yourself in is being an expert in a field. Publishing papers, working in research teams, or being part of a think-tank. You won't be the one replaced by machinery -- you'll be HELPING to create the machines that replace others.

>>284869
>What happens when we get to a point were only say, 80% of the working population can be employed at one time?
You'll have a lot of very poor people that still vote republican because they're too dumb and uneducated to realize better.

>>285997
That doesn't require a human. The medical interview can be constructed as a flowchart diagram.

>>286075
Won't happen. Medicine is a lot like the legal field; it's not difficult, but it's controlled by the elite who want to keep armchair practitioners out.

>>284869

Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote in his book Between Two Ages that Automation would replace about 60% of the work force.

That being said, he said they would pretty much need to find a way to kill off most of the population, and he mentioned it would be best done right BEFORE automation takes over, as to not create more of a crisis.

I'd read his fucking book. He wrote between two ages in the 1970's and most of his predictions came true, including the internet.

Pic related, its the slimey fuck.

>>284869
Happy ending: People stop being anti-intellectuals and apply themselves. Most of humanity is STEM. It's not luxurious or elitist because it's just expected of you, like you would expect a high school student to pass algebra. The average person in society is smarter than the average person today. You could walk up to someone in Walmart and have a conversation about calculus.

Unhappy ending: Those who are genetically predisposed to low IQs and unskilled labor, or who cannot learn an abstract concept no matter how hard they try, there is no place for them in future society. They can either accept death or revolt.

>>284919

>he thinks efficiency kills jobs
>hes on the economics board

did highschool get out early today?

>if we build trains what will happen to the buggy drivers!

>>285570
that maybe true but most of the expenses for a person come from rent of which 80% goes to property taxes, so most of the cost of staying alive is artificial to begin with. people that work for the government are worse for the economy than people that just sit at home and do nothing.

>>285543
actually if you took all the "administrative" jobs related to welfare, plus all the benefits that could be cut, and divided it out to every citizen it would be something like 7200 bucks per person per year. Basic income would likely save the govt money, politics not practicality is the reason it hasn't been implemented already.

pic related

>>285536
tinfoil

>>285655
this is just plain wrong not one part of your post was factual...idiot

>>285002
most mc donalds employees are still in education,

also the job can be done without turning off your internal mental voice which can be set to other tasks

You can interface with a customer whilst planning your vacation, working on science/math problems, daydreaming, checking out women etc

Higher skilled jobs need your full attention, so much so that during your work hours you sort of lose yourself, and by extension much of your life.

also, people buy and buy more from other people, because the human interface can use emotionally charged incentives and barter, a machine can't yet replicate this.

For example the hot waitress, or bartender will cause people to buy more alcohol, and will emotionally anchor them to buying from the establishment instead of the off licence and drinking at home or elsewhere for free

>>285536
>everything automated
>wealth still existing
>haves and have nots in a world of total abundance of energy, resources, space, interplanetary and stellar travel

The computers are getting fast, really fast,

Do you think people with "wealth" can hold onto it when pitted against quantum super computers firing computations at functionally infinite speeds. Computers will outstrip the capacity of the human brain billion fold, and continue....into infinity

unemployment is not a fucking problem in the technological age.

infact unemployment is the solution, its the end game.

Humanity has been working toward unemployment for all of history

>>286648
kill all human

>>286648
semen fracking will be 127% efficient.

>>286635
>implying Japan isn't going to be filled with Moe maids on screens taking your order, doing more and more deviant things the more food and booze you order.

>>285997

That's not entirely true. Watson is being used to diagnose cancer. When Moore's law makes Watson fit into a smart phone then there will less of a need for doctors.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528796.400-watson-turns-medic-supercomputer-to-diagnose-disease.html

Also Radiology is heavily relying on computers now to find cancer tumors that the doctors miss with the eyes.

Machines not only do the job for free, but they can do the job faster and with less mistakes than a human can.

The problem with the human mind is that its ego things its special. There is nothing special and magic about the human mind. It lives in the real world with the laws of physics. Those laws can be understood and replicated. It is only a matter of time.

Your best bet is to get a PHD in research. Those jobs will be replaced last.

>>286635

If a robot waitress could be made more sexier and emotionally more appealing than a human than the human waitress will be out of a job.

Hell the robot waitress could legally give handjobs for an extra drink unless they ban robot sex.

>>286081
>>286075
>>285997
>>285617
Disease breathalyzers. They'll be here within a decade.

>>285655
Get a load of this faggot.

Pre-industrial society was remarkably lazy on off seasons.

No clue, but there's going to be a shit ton of overqualified people doing shit jobs or being unemployed. Nowadays college is marketed as the absolute bare minimum for people to get jobs. As more and more people enter the job market with degrees, the degrees will become less valuable, and the market will become as competitive as ever despite the baby boomers beginning to retire. I'm not looking forward to when I graduate, that's for sure.

Come on, guys, job destruction is a good thing!

It once took 90 percent of the population to grow our food. Now it takes 3 percent. Pardon me, Willie, but are we worse off because of the job losses in agriculture? The would have been farmers are now college professors and computer gurus.

So instead of counting jobs, we should make every job count. We will occasionally hit a soft spot when we have a mismatch of supply and demand in the labor market. but that is temporary. Don't become a Luddite and destroy the machinery, or become a protectionist and try to grow bananas in New York city.

>>287058
lmao, 7/10 for subtlety.

>>285000
Could be something like this. With the state paying everyone's living allowance, everyone becomes completely dependent on the state. This gives the state complete control.

>>285333
The only problem here is the dumb idea that capitalism as we know it can go on forever.
Think about year 3000, how many fucking jobs can't be done by machines by them?

What's funnier is the morons here with a college degree and some lame knowledge in programing think they have their asses saved.

>>286058
>implying that isn't the minority of people
Most people aren't cut for "machine creating" tier jobs, genetically.

>>287533
>>287544

Holy wow, double dubs replying to trips!

>>287091
What part of what he said is trolling dumb fuck.

Why is automation being looked at like a bad thing?
Automation = less to no human work needs to be done to sustain human race, allowing more time for humans to devote themselves to study and creative thought and invention, leading to more harnessing of physical properties of the world to do our bidding until we control the very fabric of space and time itself

Automation is the answer, sure the transition might be rough, that's because too many hold on to our current economic model which is outdated in an automated world.

I'm not worried about automation until spontaneous problem solving is implemented.

>>285009
Probably, but you'll most likely need a mechatronic degree if you want to keep your job.

>>287743
Automation will leave only the minimum wage sector free. Ain't ever heard of a nigger "devoting themselve to creative thought and invention".

>>287802
But it literally erases the need for energy to be spent on anything but progress
If we're at a lack of jobs for people, it's because we are too efficient and have more energy (ability to do work) than we know what to do with
Most energy is spent on society, keeping it running, but if society is still running, maintaining instead of declining, and not all people are working then it's because we're at a surplus
ironically, is seems this surplus is causing a decline in the stability of society, because we aren't used to having so much surplus
Surplus energy can be directed towards progress, invention, innovation

>>284869
If we don't pursue a policy of eugenics, that will quickly become the case. We will not have a welfare state but a custodial state, where the market undesirables are allowed to live in certain communities paid for by the taxpayer.