/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>28460180
So I guess I'm holding my lcx then...

>>28460180

I too watched that Saylor podcast where he mentioned that awhile back. Its a legit strategy though. It will be a bit harder with crypto as they are volatile but viable strategy still. It will be better when we can also buy put options against our loans as insurance to prevent liquidations on our collateral and then the rest your holdings just produce compounding dividends that you use to lower your risk ratio and continuously reborrow/refinance the loans as your assets appreciate. I made a whole thread about this maybe 2 weeks ago explaining the process for crypto and no one understood. The upside for crypto is that the loans are like 1% APR through Celsius as an example compared to probably 5% or more if you borrowed against real estate but the over collateralized portion of your holdings don't produce dividends as opposed to the real estate producing cash flow. As DEFI services and options expand we will be in business though for sure. You never have to actually sell and just compound your appreciating assets forever.

>>28461707
That's exactly where i got it from, Michael SAylor LOL

>>28461707
Also Dividends are a bad thing, you pay less taxes when companies reinvest their earnings in stock buybacks.

>>28460180
What investment do I buy to borrow against? Mortgage a house and then open a HELOC or some shit?

>>28461707
>>28461741
Link to the saylor episode? Much appreciated gents
>t. Utilizing decentralized ELOC via aave

>>28460180
OP, I know it's kind of hard to believe
But I'm a SHIBillionaire
How many penthouses do you think that I can get leverage this?

>>28461904
Blue chip stocks and some bonds or real assets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyuVKOfJsE0

It came out afew weeks ago. Really good stuff.

>>28461951
https://youtu.be/SWHDYPcpaFM?t=1148

>>28462044
Based.

>>28462031
>13 bil
Bullshit

>>28460180
nigga, rich people are rich because they never sell their investments, but they never sell their investments because they are rich. This doesn't become a viable strategy for making money fast until you have 8 figure net worth.

>>28461814

Well I'm talking about crypto specific and while there might be some established ones that do buy backs(I can't think of any off the top of my head though) almost all the best options will be ones that produce dividends through staking or even just depositing on various CEX lending platforms. You need some kind of cash flow for the process to work well so you can at least pay the interest on your loan and then refinance when the asset has appreciated enough.

>>28462535
>This doesn't become a viable strategy for making money fast until you have 8 figure net worth.

You could probably do this at 2-3 Million if you are living a middle class lifestyle although it would be kind of tight and most of your assets would probably need to be real estate. If you are doing it with crypto you will need more from high over collateralization ratios and volatility.

>>28462535
I have four figures, literally, 5K and im benefitting from this as we speak.

>>28461741

I only watched a little of that episode I should check out the whole thing and others he has done. The guy seems knowledgeable about a lot of topics.

>>28462861
yes. thats how you get started and how you make sure your great grandkids are rich.

live a middleclass, very tight lifestyle, buy property, and make sure that its impossible for anyone in your family to sell ever.

>>28462637
You're right and make a good point.

>>28461707
>buy put options against our loans as insurance to prevent liquidations on our collateral
Literally what UNN is implementing.

>>28462969
It's based

>>28463025
I plan to become rich in this lifestyle

>>28463323

Yes that was part of my thread I made about this topic a few weeks ago the C-OPs however I've seen a lot of red flags about the project. I almost bought 500K I keep mulling it over but not pulling the trigger. If they successfully pull the C-OPs off though it will be legit game changing for DEFI. They clearly understand the technicals but I don't really trust a lot of the team because of past projects and it seems like we are still far away from being able to fully implement this strategy. I need to be able to get direct USD for my loan to avoid taxes and unless they integrate with Celsius or Blockfi It won't work. It seems real far off still. I could hypothetically buy put options on another platform if they ever get built but I'd have to operate it manually and hope I can sell it and transfer to prevent liquidation before it happens which sounds sketchy and stressful.

>>28462331
$100

>>28463025
>and make sure that its impossible for anyone in your family to sell ever.

You could probably lock them out from selling with smart contracts in the near future while automating the a lot of the process as well. I have a bit over $500,000 in crypto now if I make it peak of this run with 5MM lets say I'll probably be able to do just that and produce generational wealth for my blood line.

>>28463819
The only thing I know about some of the team members is that Asian dude was on my wish and apparently that didn't work out so well. I really don't know too much about their development team either. I've got a small bag in it because my accounts not that big and I'm hoping it'll do something good. What are some other red flags?

I’m a noob, what does borrowing against it mean exactly??

>>28464343

Yea the CPO Liu's old project where he was also CPO Fusion Network was hacked for 6.4 Million which the team admitted it was definitely an insider that got or had access to the private keys. Some just outright stole the money and we have no idea who on the team was in on it. Its funny because Andre Cronje was on the team as well. Also the recent security/ITT guy they hired I checked his old projects they lauded as achievements and the websites didn't even work. Just dead links. Idk the products sound amazing though. I'm not sure if they will be able to pull it off though or even plan too. I might still buy but I don't usually buy small bags of things. I would find small cap gems and then drop 10K-20K USD and plan to hold for 3-5 years. Also the UNN tokenomics suck. There is not token growth correlated to network growth as of now.

>>28460180
How do you repay the loans though? You cant tap the main asset for cash to repay. You have to repay the loan with actual income which would be taxed. What am I missing?

>>28464343
>my wish

I only know of Fusion Network. Idk what my wish is? How many failed projects does he have? lol

>>28464939

You refinance the loan when the asset has appreciated in value from the time you took out the loan. Also the real estate will likely be producing cash flow and there are probably ways to lessen the tax rate on that as well. Watch the Saylor video he linked I think the part about this is 1.5 hours in roughly.

>>28464939
I wonder the same thing

>>28464975
>>28464915
Thanks for the heads up. That's kind of unfortunate to hear because it does seem like a really good product. The tokenomics do seem like they were an afterthought, I agree. I'm not entirely sure if my wish was failed but it definitely seems like he is not working on it anymore and they're offering some sort of airdrop. Surprised to hear that Andre was on that original team. I don't know anything about Fusion Network though. Thanks for the info Anon

>>28465155
Do you have any links where I can read more up on the concepts that you're discussing about borrowing on your assets and then refinancing what's the assets appreciate

>>28464892
It's essentially a loan based on the size of your investments. They function as collateral in a way, allowing you to get a better interest rate than you would from a personal loan. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, because I haven't done it myself.

>>28462955
>4 figures

Nigga did you go through the 2year bear market?

>>28465366
Nah i just turned 18 and my parents hate investing but now i can invest however i want since they don't control me lol

>>28460180
(((wealth families)))
They're not rich because of good financial behavior

How does borrowing against your investment work though? In the end you have to pay the loan back don't you?

>>28465492
Nope, you don't. LOL

Just keep refinancing.

>>28465300
>Surprised to hear that Andre was on that original team. I don't know anything about Fusion Network though.

Cronje was on the Fusion Network project which had the hack/theft for over 6 Million. The project died after that. Liu was the CPO. It sounds like Liu has a lot of failed projects though thanks I'll check out my wish I wasn't aware of it. Redflags are adding up.

>>28465300
>Do you have any links where I can read more up on the concepts that you're discussing about borrowing on your assets and then refinancing what's the assets appreciate

Nothing that outlines the exact strategy just kind of combining knowledge from various things I've read revolving around financial tools and products that are available. You could probably google some of the keywords of the question you asked and get some answers. Its pretty well known you can borrow lines of credit against a home and recently against crypto in DEFI. Idk what the requirements are for traditional stocks though.

>>28460180
Easy to make money if you have money.

>>28465155
>You refinance the loan when the asset has appreciated in value from the time you took out the loan.
Or you could end up underwater.
>Also the real estate will likely be producing cash flow and there are probably ways to lessen the tax rate on that as well.
Real estate rental income can be depreciated off to a loss so no tax there. That would bring in cash flow. Guess I don't see why then to borrow and risk that extra step just to skip on tax when a paper loss on the property is tax free income also.
> Watch the Saylor video he linked I think the part about this is 1.5 hours in roughly.
thanks fren

>>28465815
Because your real estate will probably go up in price.

>>28465712
Thanks for the conversation anon. It was real enlightening. I always try to temper my expectations but now they're firmly Terra firma. It's greed but I'm going to try and stay optimistic

>>28465492
You get a bigger loan because your asset appreciated

>>28465815

Hypothetically you could just buy more assets with the loan as well. Depending on the real estate and the area, with the exception of market wide crashes, places like NYC or something its almost guaranteed to go up in value. I think the idea is you are pushing the tax burden down the road as much as possible so you have time for your assets to appreciate and compound.

>>28465890
Jigga 2008 called, don't feel like getting my grand-grankid's wealth wiped out because a black swan takes a dump all over real estate pricing.

Step 1: Be born into a family that inherited property in one of the wealthiest cities in the world 200 years ago
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit

>>28466068
>Hypothetically you could just buy more assets with the loan as well.
This is just leveraging up and up, certainly possible to make it but also very possible to cascade it all down if done too fast. Makes sense about kicking tax down the road to use that portion to build capital for reinvestment rather than pay feds. Gives me lots to think about.

>>28466128

You can always use the cash flow from rent to pay premium for options that hedge in case of volatility and down turns. Sure you can't time black swans so you'd have to buy them all the time. Regardless there are ways to protect yourself.

>>28460180
so basically what you're saying is go all in Chainlink, or Dogecoin?

>>28465964
Yea sure thing. Its nice to threads on /biz where we learn stuff occasionally because the shitcoin flavor of the week

>>28466353
>so basically what you're saying is go all in Chainlink

Yes. and then never sell and compound for all eternity while borrowing against it for income.

>>28462031
>13 Quadrillion coins in wallet
>1 Quadrillion SHIB available

>>28466305
Good idea.

>>28466281
You can do that today by buying bitcoin, the digital infrastructure of the future.

>>28466383

have thread* and occasionally instead of reading about the*

I'm typing this while I'm trying to watch something and its all failing.

>>28466288
Isn't this exactly what happened in 2008 where thanks just kept repackaging mortgages and two loans and kept blowing off of it till they were basically three loans deep and the underlying assets turned out to be Junk?

>>28466383
I definitely agree it's given me inspiration to learn more about traditional finance and see what the gaps are in decentralized finance. Hopefully the knowledge will give me better insights into the valuation of projects. Or at least let me see what the fuck I'm looking at

>>28460180
OK so you take out a loan against your investment and blow it on living expenses. How do you make your payments on the loan? Take out another loan to pay the first one back? Now it just sounds like the kind of shit normtards get into with credit cards. I don't see how it's sustainable.

>>28466693
'where banks just kept repackaging mortgages into loans and kept blowing off of it till they were'

My hands don't work well so I have to rely on shity voice to text

>>28466693
>I definitely agree it's given me inspiration to learn more about traditional finance and see what the gaps are in decentralized finance. Hopefully the knowledge will give me better insights into the valuation of projects.

Yea you nailed it. This is what I have been doing more or less.

>>28466734
Your investments will bring in sufficient cash flow to pay the interest, you can write it off on taxes as interest expense.

>>28466476
Never selling

>>28466917
>>28466734

What he said or you just refinance the loan if the asset appreciates in value. These are some of the jewish magic money strategies that basically all wealthy people use.

>>28460180
Actually good advice on /biz

I don't know...this all sounds very Jewish.

>>28467634

Look at me, I'm the Jew now.

>>28460180
>This way you never pay taxes on your investments. You don't pay tax on unrealized gain and you don't pay tax on borrowed money.
most on /biz are going to get fucked trying to evade taxes.

>>28467181
Based.

>>28467634
I am jewish.

>>28467961
All perfectly legal.

>>28467181
This is a little confusing, lets say your asset appreciates 50%, so would you then refinance for a loan amount that is 50% greater than your original, or would you refinance for the same amount but you basically get extra cash? Plz help a brainlet understand.

>>28468837
Either one, at that point you can choose.

>>28468837
Right you can now refinance for a greater loan amount and extend the loan term. The idea is sure you can live off some of the loan credit but mostly you are also using it to buy more assets which produce cash flow so you can compound your assets, have cash flow to pay off some of the loan if need be, and avoid taxes at the same time. You have to do some math and figure out how much you can spend for living expenses based on the trajectory of its appreciation and the cash flow everything produces. It might be easier to understand with some specifics examples and numbers. I had some examples in my old thread I'll have to try and find it.

>>28469526
Man, managing all this shit sounds like hell in today's economy

>>28469456
>>28469526
Thanks anons. I'll appreciate any other resources to learn the intricacies of this.
I'm assuming the success of this strategy is under the condition that your assets are in fact appreciating, so that if they were to decline in value below the original collateralized amount, you would have to just live off the loan credit until it appreciates, or would you be fucked if it never did?

>>28461707
Care to point me to your old thread so I can learn more? Or can you summarize/condense what it was about please?

>>28470054
Hedge against this by owning the bank

THINK THE WSB D*SCORDS SHUT DOWN FOR GOOD? FUCK THAT. FUCK JANNIES
LINKS HERE: https://del.dog/WSB

>>28470054
Stocks only go up

Assets only go up

>>28470247
Are you baiting redditors with this or something then getting them v&? If yes, based

>>28468094
I could smell jew a mile away but this is the way the world works thanks to you. Never sell your crypto and buy assets. A bet on housing or the stock market is a bet on society. >>28467910
>To Know Your Enemy, You Must Become Your Enemy - Famous Chink StarCraft Player

>>28470054
>>28470258

Hes kind of right. The idea is that you are buying assets that are so valuable they only appreciate in the long term. That is kind Michael Saylor's whole selling point on BTC or prime NYC real estate as an example. Also if you are buying more assets with the loan that produce cash flow plus the original collateral asset produces cash flow that can pay the interest on the loan if it doesn't appreciate in a timely manner or has a bad year etc.

>>28470147
It was long I'll probably repost it soon and add some more/reword it. I have a better understanding now. You might be able to find it in the archives although I was having some difficulty.

>>28469898
Not as bad as you'd think. Its a lot of work once to create models and do some speculating on appreciation rates, cash flow of your assets, interest on the loans, and then deciding the excess you can spend for costs of living to maintain the whole thing with taking into consideration buffer zones so everything operates smoothly. Then you'd just have to make some slight changes as the markets move.

>>28470258
I guess it really makes sense when you think about it. The rich people will never sell due to asset backed loans, which even if it dips, they will just buy the dip with the loan credit then refinance during ATH. Since they are never selling, all of retail will be forced to buy in higher than them, coupled with everyone contributing to a 401k and having a company match, plus retail speculators, it creates the recipe for the largest ponzi scheme that has ever been created and has been going strong for the last 100 years.

>>28460180
I read a post like this on YouTube somewhere. maybe even still have a screen shot of it.

but they were saying you need millions. and basically they only pay a few hundred a month because their loans are at like 0%

>>28462955
how?

>>28461904
>>28461707
no clue on how this works but when I heard about this they said rich ppl use stocks and borrow against that

>>28471366
Based

>>28471476
>Hes kind of right. The idea is that you are buying assets that are so valuable they only appreciate in the long term. That is kind Michael Saylor's whole selling point on BTC or prime NYC real estate as an example. Also if you are buying more assets with the loan that produce cash flow plus the original collateral asset produces cash flow that can pay the interest on the loan if it doesn't appreciate in a timely manner or has a bad year etc.

This is how you become a billionaire anon.

>>28471624
I'm doing it with less than 5 figures bro.

>>28471767
I'm going all in on MARA stock, BTC mining, levered return on BTC

Literally never selling it. If i want to buy more stock in something else I'll save up from work and buy it, I'm never sellling MARA ever.

I may sell some covered calls on MARA that are OTM and MARA may be in that case assigned away from me, but I'll instantly repurchase it if that happens.

Buy and HODL forever and just collect profits forever on things.

>>28471788
>This is how you become a billionaire anon.

Yea we are all gonna make it man. I think the best part of all of this is we can automate these strategies with smart contracts. Once you have enough wealthy you could probably hire someone to code what you need done or better yet they will exist as plugs in tools created by developers and part of the existing DEFI legos. Sergey always talks about composability for DEFI and ease of use.

>>28472810
Absolutely based.

>>28460180
>>28461707
how can I build a net neutral position to lock-in my profit?
Is that Delta hedging?

>>28473853
Buy stock and sell covered calls on it that are out of the money.

>>28460180
Red pill me on how I do this with 10k link and defi money legos only? No physical assets.

Like can I deposit 10k link into aave, borrow usdc against it and buy Cover insurance as a hedge in case $link crashes and Aave liquidates me?

What’s the best money lego steps that mimics this strat?

>>28475672
You'd have to own stocks in crypto related companies.

I do it through MARA which is a BTC and ETH mining company.

I don't think you can do it with LINK.

>>28475852
Money legos only. No physical or boomer stonks

Is this not possible yet in defi fairy land?

>>28471366
> A bet on housing or the stock market is a bet on society.
Meanwhile betting on crypto is betting against this society and for a different future. Agree or disagree?
Funny, whenever I thought about what I'd do if I managed some big crypto gains it was always "buy real estate". But lately more and more I'm thinking fuck that, keep your crypto.
I guess good land is always worth something though.

>>28476036
It may be but im not familar.

Also they may be "stonks" but they are pieces of ownership in bitcoin mining companies. They represent future proceeds of Bitcoin.

>>28476107
Use your crypto as an asset to borrow against, borrow money and buy real estate.

I still don't get how borrowing against crypto or stocks work. Where does the money come from to pay back the loan? Why wouldn't you just use that money instead of getting a loan in the first place?

>>28474525
>calls
I don't think they're easily available for crypto yet, but let's assume they are, how do you calculate the amount to put on an option?
FTX has this HEDGE token which gives -1X without liquidation risk, but you're still fucked if you hold for a while, and doesn't have a lot of liquidity

>>28476266
Read the thread

>>28476266
>I still don't get how borrowing against crypto or stocks work. Where does the money come from to pay back the loan?

The crypto appreciates by a faster rate than than the interest on the loan so you'll be good.

You use the debt to buy real estate and stocks, and use SOME of the proceeds of the real restate and stocks to pay off the debt and enjoy the rest for your personal expenditure.

THat's how i plan to reap my crypto rewards, I will NEVER sell BTC. I will just borrow against it to buy Condos, and then collect rent from the condos, and use that for my spending.

>>28476320
I sell a call on my MARA that's 10% above the current price, the shares only get called from me if MARA rises 10% in a week.

The premium on these options are 9%.

Even if the stock rises and gets called away from me, I earned 19% in one week from the transaction.

>>28460180
This is basically what I do with stocks, I have 3 forever hold stocks that I borrow money against on margin for speculative plays and then after those plays play out I take my profits set a bit aside for taxes take a bit for spending cash and reinvest the rest into my long term holds.

It's basically the smallballer version of owning really expensive NY real estate. The benefit of what I do too if you can deduct the margin interest payment from capital gains tax so it's basically a loan you can get approved for immediately that is interest free if you profit with the money you use.

Sometimes none of my plays work out and I have to sell a bit of my long term holds to get back in the game but as long as those holds increase in value over time and I increase my position in those holds over time it works.

>>28476136
so if i own 1k of a stock, I can get a loan with the stock as collateral, and then invest that 1k as well? Is this the strategy being discussed in this thread? Buy a house, take out a loan against the house to invest, never sell the house, make profit from the loan investment. is this right?

>>28476590
What stocks are those anon? Out of curiosity?

how's that different from all the aave/yield schemes?

>>28460180
>You don't pay tax on unrealized gain
Didn't Janet Yellen discuss taxing unrealised gains for burgers?

>>28476756
>Buy a house, take out a loan against the house to invest, never sell the house, make profit from the loan investment
That's what some people do with rental properties. It's essentially leveraging and incredibly risky if the income streams dry up, like for example if the government says that rent is cancelled.

>>28476756
Correct.

Why would you ever sell your house when you can borrow against it?

>>28477001
It's never going to happen, it's impossible.

If people had to pay tax on unrealized gains there would be a MASSIVE selloff of assets as people are forced to liquidate to pay taxes.

>>28476972
I don't know what those are.

>>28476756
You don’t really need to “get a loan,” just withdraw cash from your margin account.

>>28477001
Show me where it was seriously discussed (it wasn't).

>>28460180
>Then just borrow against these investments for spending purposes
Wut?

>>28477094
>If people had to pay tax on unrealized gains there would be a MASSIVE selloff of assets as people are forced to liquidate to pay taxes.
But isn't that what (((they))) want? They could then buy up cheap like Gates, Bezos etc. are doing with farmland currently?
Am new and retarded so no bully if retarded.

>>28475672

I haven't looked into Cover but I don't think all the tools are available in DEFI quite yet to do the process well or effectively but I'd imagine soon. We need incredibly liquid option contracts for crypto and they don't exist yet at least none with consistent and large volume.

>>28477001
>>28477123
I'm not sure if Yellen did but I read an article about some dumb libtard senator from Oregon or Washington putting it forward.

>>28476590
>>28477023
>>28477035
this thread has really changed my understanding of the game. thank you so much anons.

>>28477316
>But a proposal championed by the incoming Chair of the Senate Finance Committee, Ron Wyden (D-OR), would change this. Under Wyden’s proposal, taxpayers over a certain income level or with qualifying assets exceeding a threshold would be expected to pay taxes on increases in the on-paper value of assets, even if the capital gain was unrealized.
https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2021/01/25/beware_of_a_biden_tax_on_unrealized_capital_gains_657597.html

>Treat wealth like wages
https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Treat%20Wealth%20Like%20Wages%20RM%20Wyden.pdf

>>28476756

Basically but you'd probably never get a 1:1 ratio of collateral to credit nor would you want that much risk. The main point of the strategy is that it reduces your tax liability because loans are tax free and interest on loans can be deducted.

>>28477107
newfag here. still learning about margin accounts but i understand the bigger picture. ill do more research and create a road map with these ideas. thanks a lot.

>>28477596
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpsOmeFy0Lo
All you need to know about margin

>>28477221
I think the elites already own everything, they just want to keep pumping everything up forever.

They would have done that pre-covid if they wanted

>>28477322
No worries anon, we're all going to make it.

>>28477458
>>28477316
Also thinking back, I think this was one of the proposals that Warren campaigned on in the Democratic primary. I think her threshold back then was $1 mil net worth, not sure if it included unrealized gains or was just on assets like land and boats

>>28460180
Using a business as a tax shelter is more powerful then what you describe.

S-corp pass through, sep retirement, solo 401k, Standard deductions. If you utilize those things your taxable income is way below the average person. Setting up a S Corp Will save you $10,000 on taxes on only 100 K salary.

>>28475672
>>28476036
see >>28476320, maybe 50% LINK, 50%LINKHEDGE or 1X short on future?
I think cashing out may still be the better strategy in this cycle for me, since I'm qualified for 0% capital gain tax

>>28472737
Buying and holding MARA is not at utilizing this strategy of taking out loans against your holdings. Also, if you think MARA won't crash again when BTC does you're in for a shock. Hope you aren't too leveraged

>>28478008
Sorry i thought i was responding to my other thread.

I made another thread about selling options on my MARA.

>>28476320
If by amount to put on an option you mean the option price, you traditionally use the Black Scholes method for valuation

>>28477847

Loans on Celsius give USD for only 1% APR. Instead of taxes the interest is your only expense. That is likely lower than you can get using a business as a tax shelter although what OP is describing is just one tool in your arsenal. You would implement what you are suggesting in tandem with this strategy as well.

>>28478424
>>28478008
>>28478008
SORRY i actually was responding to THIS THREAD

Basically if i ever need cash i just look at one of my stocks and sell 1 week covered calls that are OTM on it.

I then use the cash for whatever purpose i want.

>>28478488
1% APR loans? What's the catch?

>>28478508
Ahhh gotcha, makes sense. Selling calls and puts is a solid strategy when you can afford to do it. I recommend looking into the wheel if you haven't already. Solid options selling strategy for generating income essentially

>>28478569
There is no catch, interest rates are super low these days.

>>28473853
yes. it's also called gamma scalping

so how do you pay back the loan if you have no income?

>>28476320
you'd have to calculate the "notional value" of how much the hedge is compared to the notional value of your base.

>>28478569

The steep over collateralization rates to secure the loan are the only catch imo regardless though its still an insane deal.

>>28478618
>>28478488
>>28478569
the catch is when the value of the crypto tanks and you get a margin call

great technique. last thing i want to be doing is paying capital gains on newly minted staked coins

>>28460180
This only works with yield generating assets which most of crypto isn't

>>28478784
Combination of cash flow from your investments and refinancing your loan once your asset appreciates in value. If I understand this thread correctly

>>28478609
I use the wheel, it's absolultely based.

>>28462955
See you at the next pig slaughter. Unrealized gains are just that, unrealized. If you don't secure your money then just as easily as you gained it you will lose it. That doesn't mean you can't gain it back but if you've made a giant profit why not secure it? Yes you'll probably miss out on extra gains, buy you'll also probably miss on the bear market

>>28478974
Technically but once put options are widely available and liquid we can easily hedge against and create stability. I'd imagine puts and calls will be the next DEFI tool to be created on a wide scale. It makes sense they would be a huge market. Who ever does it successfully with decent tokenomics will be the next 500x easy.

>>28479002
Aren't coins generated by staking considered income like dividends?

>>28478784
>>28479138
Yes.

You take out loans on your assets and buy cash generating assets and use a portion of the cash generated to pay the loan.

>>28479019

What are you talking about? There is plenty of ways to generate yield on crypto. You can literally deposit them in various exchanges for yield from 5% to 10% depending on the crypto.

>>28479223
so don't you have to pay tax on the income from the cash generating asset?

>>28460180
When you borrow how do you pay off your loan? Or do you just let them liquidate your collateral to avoid the tax?

>>28460180
Is this from Michael saylor on Breedlove’s What is money podcast?

>>28463025
>>28464062
Why the fuck are you fags concerned about some kids you will hardly know being wealthy? Fuck cashing out until you are around 15-20 mil that way you dont have to live a "middle class lifestyle" and can truly enjoy the gains YOU earned.

>>28479727

You obviously didn't read the thread. We are never selling. My crypto will compound and appreciate for all of eternity.

>>28479727
>Not wanting prosperity for your descendants
I hope you never breed.

>>28479646
Yes

>>28462535
>rich people are rich because they never sell their investments,

Yes, high class people I know say things like, "Oh, you don't dip into capital. [meaning sell to pay expenses] You only spend part of your income and invest the rest." [Their dividend+interest income is so high that they can do this and cover life expenses.]

>taking out loans on shit like crypto
Idk anons. Also seems like a good way to get absolutely btfo. Also why would you want to be in a constant state of debt?

>>28479270
Borrow money and put it in a cash generating asset and use the cash returns to pay some of the debt and use the rest for your play money

>>28460180
Congratulations, you just discovered the concept of a margin account. Now look up what liquidated means.

>>28460180
what about pump & dumps

>>28480259
Because debt is cheaper than the rate of inflation

It’s free money

>>28479909
Again why would i sacrifice my lifestyle for kids i will hardly know? It is gains I made myself. Furthermore a meager 7 figures isnt enough to prevent your worthless descendents from likely squandering that wealth.

>>28480312
I’m not talking about margin you dingus

>>28479260
You can write off the interest expense

>>28480422
Because it's the right thing to do? Do you think that kids you "hardly know" have nothing to do with you? It's not just about creating generational wealth, but generational prosperity including strong family values. Do you desire to change the world in any way? You can't do that when you're dead.

>>28480424
I see, you are an idiot

>>28480675
I'm talking about taking out a bank loan you dumbass.

>>28460180
But how do you pay your collateralized loan then? Get a job to pay the loan? Is this how the wealthy do it in NY City?

>>28481354
Read the god damn thread. Put the loan in an income generating asset such that the return is greater than the debt payment on the loan. Pocket some cash and service the debt.

>>284
loan, borrow, leverage, whatever you want to call it it's not exactly a new concept but you must think you are discovering some special jewish hidden secret after watching that Michael saylor video.

Here is a question I have, so I can take a loan out on my Link into USDC at 22%. Then swap stable coin to BNT, and stake BNT for ~100% APR right now on Bancor. That's a huge return to easily service the debt.

I'm sure its easy enough to find but does anyone know how long Bancor is going to maintain high interest?

>>28481739

Yes this works. The current downside is that we don't have proper hedges available yet in DEFI to add stability to your LINK collateral like put options so if the price takes a down turn you can protect against liquidation.

>>28481739
I have no idea when it comes to Link im afraid.

>>28475672
Soon/now there are platforms where you can put up collateral in one token to get another token right away. Flashstake is one, and I'm pretty sure there's others. Throw some of your link stack to them, flash stake in some coin you know is going to blow up, sell for profit and take back collateral. Reinvest some, take some as profit. It's not quite the same, as you will pay capital gains tax, but you never risk your linkies directly.

>>28465726
>Easy to make money if you have money.
I didn't have a lot of money when I went all-in on AMD @ $9. Had even less when I bought TSM for $11. Never going to sell either, unless I write options that get exercised.

ok anons so does anyone have good recommendations on were to take out a loan against your btc?

>>28481968
I see, and so I would want to get a put option that is well in the money were I to be at a liquidation point on my loan do a link price crash, correct?

>>28482625
Probably wrapped bitcoin on Aave.