/biz/ - Business & Finance

That was 2017 retard

>>28374749

the absolute newfag in this faggot

we already been through 2017 retard

don't care, didn't ask, too busy making 100x returns

stick ur head up ur shitter and die

>>28374749
Can't wait for DeFi to implode suddenly so everyone here gets burned kek

>>28374749
you should rope yourself boomer

>>28374749
how the fuck would they have not recovered financially unless they were retards who put in more than they could lose or took out loans to invest or put on massive shorts? anyone who does that deserves to lose their money

>>28374749
I listened to cunts like you in 2016 guess what it keeps going. If you don't buy assets you're fucked.

>>28374948
>he missed out on the greatest financial opportunity humanity has seen since the first bolts of silk were carried from china to rome across the silk road

>>28374989
The NASDAQ didnt even recover till just like 2 years ago, similar thing with the S&P500.

The DJIA recoverd much quicker, because, you know they were INDUSTRIALS, a.k.a. acutally making something instead of "technology bro".

>>28375026
Invisalign braces stock went up 100x in just a few years, there are lots of stocks that moon.

>>28375201

do indexes even take market cap into account or are they just adding up ticker prices?

>>28375074
oh don't worry I have enough $5000 basis BTC to tide me through. All you greedy fucks who gave your coins to earn a mere 10% APY are in for a rude shock this month though.

>>28375454
i'm not a staker, i'm a hodler. always thought staking was gay unless you had a milllion+ in stablecoins to chuck into AAVE or something

>>28375454
I'll bite. Why, real arguments only

>>28374749
If this is a bubble, we’ve only barely just entered it and it’ll last another 2-3 years because people are just getting into crypto now and the normies haven’t totally hopped on board yet.

>>28375512
oh then we're buddies. high five!

>>28375567
when you stake your coin, you lose control of them, and there are certain conditions where the coin will be immediately sold without permission and there's not a single fucking thing you can do about it.

>>28375598

This, the peak of the bubble is when your normie relatives are throwing money at something. Normies are starting to wake up, but it's not even remotely close to saturation yet.

>>28375442
They assign a weighted point value to a dollar, then they add up the dollars of each share on the index and adjust the points based on the dollar change.

So the way it's weighted takes some market cap into effect.

The important thing that indexs do however is reflect the reality that if you lose 10% you have to gain MORE THAN 10% just to break even.

>>28375780
>normie relatives are throwing money
The economy is crashing all around us, normies are gonna be out of work en masse in the next 2 years, there gonna be on unemployment not throwing any money around.

Also this is a little out there, but i would not be one bit surprised if the government crashes crypto, and i fully believe the government (mainly NSA) in creating crypto. I will not be one bit surprised if they do some sort of tactical dump or hack on lots of people. They blew up a nuclear reactor for "safety" so i have no doubt they will do something like that for "national security"

>>28375953
>The economy is crashing all around us, normies are gonna be out of work en masse in the next 2 years, there gonna be on unemployment not throwing any money around.

This all means endless fiat printing, which is good for core cryptos like BTC. Big money flowing into BTC as an inflation hedge will drive the price up. The wilder the economic situation, the more favorable crypto becomes.

>>28375953
lol

>>28374749
I'm so poor I only have to wagecuck 1 month to financially recover

>>28376245
Bitcoin has been around a decade, there is still almost no one who takes it.

When credit cards came out, almost everyone took them within 2 years.

When paypal launched, almost everyone was using it immediately, same with ebay.

ALSO

What Navy does bitcoin have? Thats right none. The worth of a currency is directly proportional to the strength of its military. This is a basic law of history/econ.

Looks like a much healthier chart post 2000 to me

>>28375201
Nasdaq recovered in 2014?

>>28376558
Thats fifteen years, and thats the index as a whole (bankrupt companies were removed, masking the losses if you had actually had money in those companies).

But even in the rosy situation thats still 15 years.

>>28376399
>Bitcoin has been around a decade, there is still almost no one who takes it.
>When credit cards came out, almost everyone took them within 2 years.
>When paypal launched, almost everyone was using it immediately, same with ebay.

Bitcoin is a dollar competitor, not a credit card competitor.
It has a market cap of $600 billion USD and growing. Does that not seem like substantial adoption of a new technology to you?

>ALSO
>What Navy does bitcoin have? Thats right none. The worth of a currency is directly proportional to the strength of its military. This is a basic law of history/econ.

It's not the just military, it's the entire infrastructure of financial services, legal remedies, infosec, etc. It can be argued that DeFi is providing many of those solutions and will surpass conventional state infrastructure. What then? This really just begs the question - is a formal state with military power the only type of organization that can sustain a currency? What if there are millions of individuals around the world who stand to lose everything in crypto is imperiled? I think you would see a new kind of civil war with stateless crypto chads vs legacy state cattle.

>>28375777
Non custodial staking, anon. It's a thing. Go figure.

the difference is with crypto bitcoin is the internet and altcoins are the dotcom bubble. lots of interesting and some useful tech and ideas, but most of it is overhyped, overvalued, or unneeded.

bitcoin might be in a hype phase and drop, but given its the only possible store of value/scarce crypto, it's surviving as long as the concept of cryptocurrencies does. things wont bode so well for the swaths of altcoins all competing with each other for the same markets and the 90% riding the coattails of the ones that have traction

>>28376399
>What Navy does bitcoin have? Thats right none. The worth of a currency is directly proportional to the strength of its military. This is a basic law of history/econ.

Muh boatcoin

>>28376399
I AM THE LAW

>>28376399
Good luck to 'the navy' trying to take down a global decentralised computer network

How does one prepare for a crash without withdrawing to cash and getting fucked by taxes

Is usdc stable or can it crash w crypto

>>28376920
>is a formal state with military power the only type of organization that can sustain a currency?
Actually, yes.
>Mark 12:17 And Jesus said to them, “Pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they were utterly amazed at Him.

First off, there is never going to be an apocalyptic collapse, if there was, do you really think internet infrastructure would be running smooth for crypto payment?

Secondly, when countries have gotten bombed and destroyed throughout histroy barter is always the default, because when people are fulfilling basic needs barters is much safer and efficient than a fluctuating currency.


>>28376920
>$600 billion USD and growing. Does that not seem like substantial adoption of a new technology to you?
No. ENRON and Worldcom were worth about this much and they did litterally nothing and did nothing for about a decade before the fraud curtain was pulled.


BITCOIN IS A DOLLAR COMPETITOR BECAUSE IT'S VALUE IS ALWAYS STATED IN TERMS OF DOLLARS.

>>28377337
lol, you dont get it.

Good luck having a decentralized computer network go into a country and kill a bunch of rebels when the rebels tried to nationalize your oil drilling equipment.

Good luck having a computer network go kill a bunch of iraqis after they seized access roads to your factory. Or kills a bunch of taliban that seized your poppy fields.

Get it? The US dollar is strong because other countries will take it wether they like it or not. And if they try to steal stuff bought with USD the military will invade their country and kill all their adolescent males.

>>28374749
Every time we hit a bull cycle these retarded ass posts start popping up.
It's like you boomers are all fucking NPCs.
Shouldn't you be making some more tulip mania comparisons too you old fucktard?

>>28377613
This is litterally what tech faggots said to older people in the 90s.

They said stuff like go invest in Chrysler or some airlines in the future we wont need to drive or fly because everything will be digitized and The Home Grocer ( a big hyped up web groccery store that eventually failed) is going to deliver everything.

>>28374749
Fuck off boomer, no one cares about your shiny rocks anymore

>>28376779
Fair enough, but that’s considering you went all in at the exact peak and didnt buy any dip. If you started DCAing a few years prior to the crash and continued DCAing until today I think it would look quite different. But yeah still shitty

>>28377743
Bitch I've been through two bull cycles already and know when the fuck to take profit.
Fuck off retard.

Go back to /pol you fucking dumb nigger.

>>28377462
>Secondly, when countries have gotten bombed and destroyed throughout histroy barter is always the default, because when people are fulfilling basic needs barters is much safer and efficient than a fluctuating currency.

Big think here:

In the world you describe, a commodity-backed stablecoin would provide the stability you (correctly) suggest people would desire, while also offering the benefits of crypto, which may be even more useful in a context where states are unstable. This made me think - what if companies created a coin for every product they create, backed by the physical products themselves? There's plenty of room in 256 bits for everyone to churn out GUIDs.

>>28377743
>The Home Grocer ( a big hyped up web groccery store that eventually failed)

And now we get food delivered to our homes all the time. Makes you think.

>>28376920

This is absolutely a war and I’m on the front line. Lol ffs there are apps where u can download your crypto direct to keep your funds safu. How long until humanity catches on, and starts grading crypto independently from banks?

It’s going to happen.

>>28377193

This is garbage sorry. Bitcoin is an inferior technology. If you people are worried about hype, what the fuck else is more hyped than Bitcoin? So stupid.

>>28375201
>>The NASDAQ didnt even recover till just like 2 years ago, similar thing with the S&P500.
>
>The DJIA recoverd much quicker, because, you know they were INDUSTRIALS, a.k.a. acutally making something instead of "technology bro".
it's the exact opposite lol

>>28374749
facts don't care about your feelings.

>>28375777
>oh then we're buddies. high five!
why are you talking like this man? fuck off

>>28378075
Last time i checked there are groccery stores everywhere and they almost always have lines of people.

Furthermore, the freeways are packed with cars at almost all hours now.

So tech faggots were dead wrong, the car and grocery stores are still a center piece of American life, and becoming increasingly popular around the entire world.

>>28378018
>what if companies created a coin for every product they create, backed by the physical products themselves?
right, which would eleminate this delusion that the whole world will voluntarily accept bitcoin as the default currency. Like why would they do that when other coins can be created.


I think the blockchain has lots of useful functions, for starters it could pretty much elimiate counterfeit goods. A hash could be given like a serial number for each official product and it could be updated via RFID all the way until it reaches customer.

It could also be used for home titles, stock clearing houses, and tons of other stuff.

But the idea of it as a currency is nuts.

The reasons why the USD is the reserve currency is because it has courts and military?

What happens if there is a dispute over your bitcoin? Or there is fraud with it?
With dollars i have recourse in court and w/ cc companies.

Even other simple stuff, what happens if your digital wallet is physically burned/lose your key? It's like a money order, your screwed.

With cash you can actually get it all back if it gets burned in a house fire, you litterally just prove you withdrew it and you receive the money back, same thing with theft.

>>28378131
bitcoin is money, altcoins are technology. if you don't understand that and understand why, you're not qualified to talk about cryptocurrencies, sorry.

>>28378774
>bitcoin is money
shitty money because the last 15 stores I went too didn't accept it.

It's also a shitty money because the few people that do accept it change their prices by the minute. Never seen that with USD.

>>28374749
so we still have a year?? that's long enough for me to make it.

>>28374749
>FUD THREAD DETECTED

>>28376399
here in Czech republic we have a lot of places where you can spend it plus the bigest online shop accept it

>>28374749

OP definitely a boomer, log off your sons computer you cuck

>>28378846
>shitty money because the last 15 stores I went too didn't accept it.
sucks for you my gas station takes bitcoin

>>28378719

> The reasons why the USD is the reserve currency is because it has courts and military?
> What happens if there is a dispute over your bitcoin? Or there is fraud with it?

There could be digital courts. Instead of trading bitcoin "raw", you could pay with a wrapped bitcoin token that deducts some service fee but provides binding conflict resolution services relating to the transaction if needed. In order to transact, you would need to stake some sizable amount that could be potentially paid out in settlements. Come to think of it, if this doesn't already exist, it should.

> With dollars i have recourse in court and w/ cc companies.
The typical individual has little recourse in court; the only real net beneficiaries in the current system are the legal class that systematically extracts way too much value from the economy. Legal fees and complexity grows like currency inflation. The money printers here are the legal class who profit from creating the law and then interpreting the law.

>With cash you can actually get it all back if it gets burned in a house fire, you litterally just prove you withdrew it and you receive the money back, same thing with theft.

Sounds like an opportunity for some kind of catastrophic loss crypto insurance policy.

>>28378846
>shitty money because the last 15 stores I went too didn't accept it.

there are many currencies in the world and they accept exactly one at your local stores. that means nothing about the value or viability of the other currencies on this planet, one of which is bitcoin.

It's obviously a bubble. The trick is to not get emotionally involved and exit before the pop

>>28374749
>most people involved in the dot com bubble have still not recovered financially AFTER (20) TWENTY YEARS
Imagine not diversifying. If your holdings are 100% crypto you are 100% certified retarded.

>>28374749
That’s a man

>>28379528
>Come to think of it, if this doesn't already exist, it should.
It doesnt, but it would have to exist if anyone would ever do serious dealings with this.

The USD is so much more than just "printed money" each dollar is a citizen of the united states that gets afforded all the luxuries of safety that the US provides.

Plus, the reason we have inflation is to stop hoarding. Inflation is supposed to encourage people to spend or invest in development. Bitcoin does not have this, problematic.

Why would i buy anything with bitcoin if bitcoin is just going to keep going up in the future? Serious.

Why would you buy a car that costs 1 BTC, if you thought BTC was going to double in a year? Then the car would only cost .5BTC so I would lose money by purchasing the car with BTC.

The whole premise of "never have inflation" is flawed from the start.

>>28376920
A currency is a reflection of a states ability to back it with force, so yes military is essential. What happens say if China starts printing dollars and the US says stop that and China replies "make me lol". That's a declaration of war that would need to be met with force

>>28380073
>Plus, the reason we have inflation is to stop hoarding. Inflation is supposed to encourage people to spend or invest in development. Bitcoin does not have this, problematic.
lol that's what they tell the plebs so they can siphon economic value away in plain sight. Inflation doesn't affect everyone equally. It's the process of money creation. If I create a bunch of dollars and put them in my pocket, it's not only the price of candy bars that was affected here; it's the fact that I now have a larger % of control over the economy than I did before I created that money. Inflation is what allows a small clique to bankroll their endeavors without effective limit.

>Why would i buy anything with bitcoin if bitcoin is just going to keep going up in the future? Serious.
>Why would you buy a car that costs 1 BTC, if you thought BTC was going to double in a year? Then the car would only cost .5BTC so I would lose money by purchasing the car with BTC.

You've gotta be kidding me. You don't see the problem with your thinking here?

>>28375350
meanwhile in cyrpto a coin made literally as a joke has gone up 36000% in the same time frame. stocks are fine if you're already rich or if you want to eventually make it when you're fucking 70

>>28377604
this is some top tier boomer shit
iraqis and rebels are literally the good guys on our side moron
youre a willing jew slave fighting for israel
fuck off boomer

>>28379528
this is a based high iq anon

>>28380073
this is a coping nocoiner boomer retard

>>28380126
>A currency is a reflection of a states ability to back it with force, so yes military is essential. What happens say if China starts printing dollars and the US says stop that and China replies "make me lol". That's a declaration of war that would need to be met with force

> "A currency is..."

No, a currency is simply a system that serves as a means of coordinating economic production and distribution.
A dollar is a token that empowers the bearer with some power over a portion of the economic machine. The illicit duplication problem you describe (solved by "military force") doesn't even exist with crypto. You don't need a standing military to challenge counterfeiters because it's not even possible.

>>28380073
>The USD is so much more than just "printed money" each dollar is a citizen of the united states that gets afforded all the luxuries of safety that the US provides.
If they keep printing it the way they have the supply will outdistance its economic value to the point you'll be better off wiping your ass with it instead of buying toilet paper.

>>28377604
Lol
Its 2021. You still dont understand what bitcoin is. Fuck me I thought this was just a larp.

>>28379528
>> What happens if there is a dispute over your bitcoin? Or there is fraud with it?
>There could be digital courts
There are no disputes with bitcoin. It resolves itself. That is the essence of blockchain. It can't be counterfeited or double-spent. If you send it to someone its gone.

A lot of salty maxis ITT.
No matter how much you cope and seethe, truth is you are greedy retards who fell for a jewish ponzi scam and it's only a matter of time before your precious buttcorn go *poof*. Not only it will end up being worthless, but you'll have to pay huge taxes on it.
Double McCucked lmao.

>>28380998
That's not really the point here. He's essentially questioning how transacting in a crypto-based system that exists parallel to dollars/states would resolve disputes between parties.

>>28381357
>Not only it will end up being worthless, but you'll have to pay huge taxes on it.
how can holding something worthless make you liable for huge taxes?

>>28380073
You should watch some Michael saylor vids. He argues that you would NOT ever sell Bitcoin, rather that you’d perpetually borrow against your Bitcoin holdings because it will keep going up. So you can theoretically live off your Bitcoin without ever spending any of it. He believes fiat will exist as long as there are governments but that it will continuously be devalued and that crypto is an investment opportunity that only comes around once every thousand years or so. I think he’s right.

>>28380998
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>>28374815
MAXIS COPE & SEETHE

>>28378018
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>>28374948
based

>>28377241
At least Bitcoin destroys the environment by huge CO2 emmissions. It's the most dirty currency of all time. Imagine a company like Tesla who claim to help save the planet buying it. Must be truly treacherous.

>>28381469
He's also a conman who's using the crypto community to pump his stock to sky high valuations.

>>28381445
Because you'll have to pay gains based on each fiscal year.

>>28381818
That's only if you sell, in which case you're not holding something worthless because you sold it already for a profit, which is why you're paying taxes.

>>28381780

The Bitcoin network produces financial services for transactional energy costs that are miniscule compared to what is undertaken in the name of conventional banking.

im bearish on btc purely because the jews have come out against it. if they can't control something, they will destroy it. that bitch yellen griping about it portends bad times for crypto.

>>28374749
fuck of I lived through the dot.com bubble it was nothing like this.

You had no hope of getting in on the ground floor or buying the asset like with crypto.

This times its reversed. Only now are some companies buying in eg Tesla etc.

The dot com bubble gave us a glorified typewriter and a universal message board.

Crypto attacks the fundamental arrangement of society, government and money.

Every fucking reserve bank and gov is being forced to take a position on this.

This time it will be the companies. ~ 300K

Next time it will be banks.

The time after that is will be central govs

The time after that it will be every once else.

>>28374749
>Price doubles is USD
>Value of USD halves
>Cryptos are stagnant

USD is the bubble.

>>28381764
Overwhelming vote for crypto in this channel!

>>28379932
this is a S tech-curve not a stock curve.

>>28380073
no, because if your BTC is worth 10x you wait and pull out 0.1BTC and buy because you are not really affected if the remaining 90% goes another 10x

>>28377604
What if, none of what you said was actually necessary and the last time the US military did something commendable was hunting down the Barbary corsairs?

>>28374749
us economy is milimeter from collapse due to government

>>28378719
you're a retard, good luck with your increasingly worthless fiat or precious metals that never go up.

>>28378846
visa crypto cards are coming out and will work anywhere that takes visa, you boomers are so clueless

>>28382804
I'm surprised we haven't seen more anti-crypto FUD in the media desu

>>28374749
The reason that boomers have not recovered from losing money in 1999 is because they were then subjected to modern employment market conditions after having been financially coddled for their entire lives.
i.e. the dotcom crash turned boomers into millenials and instead of 'pulling themselves up by the bootstraps' they blamed it on young people and their computers.

>>28376399
> anon doesnt know know what 4th gen warfare is
> doesnt know the advantages of decentralization against adversaries with superior firepower.
>Cant draw conclusions for how crypto will play into 4GW

>>28385748
This