/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>28087868
You wouldn't buy pizza with gold bullion either

>>28087868
i just prefer it over gold

We are in the “distribution” phase, where price is volatile. This will last about five more years after which time things begin to stabilize. In 10 years BTC will be very stable as most of it will have been apportioned.

I feel that these posts are designed to make biz users either feel skeptical about crypto or invite further conversation.

You're better off posting your blog on Reddit

>>28087868
Bitcoin is a replacement for gold, not for currency. Due to the nature of how blockchain transactions are tracked it has some benefits over gold as a store of value.

>>28087960
I buy stuff with btc any time it’s an option, so a few times a year at least. My approach is to buy whatever with btc and then immediately buy at least twice as much btc using fiat.

>>28087868
You've got to understand this is new territory that's evolving. I'm sure people have said btc would replace fiat at some point but now that isn't as likely. Btc can be a store of value that will stabilize more with time. Just like gold, people, especially countries hoard gold and silver. It's not really used to buy things but it's a good storage of wealth. There's only 21 million that can ever come into existence. Taking into consideration how many people are in the world that's a tiny amount, and consider all the lost btc it's even a smaller amount.

Chances are blockchain will replace a lot of the financial world, and we will have cbdcs along fiat. And other crypto which could be come more acceptable from retail. Maybe quantum computing will btfo crypto in the future and it all goes to nothing. Who knows. But it's looking pretty good right now.

>>28088136
No government is going to pay out of their ass for bitcoin. They'll just make their own and ban the competition. International trade union cryptocurrencies.

>>28088301
cbdcs will be fiat

quantum resistant cryptography will emerge.

>>28087868
Bitcoins original idea was to be a currency, however it is obviously not. This means the race for crypto-based currency is still on. IMHO only feeless, scalable projects will have a shot at this position. Thats why Im all-in IOTA

The real currency. Really being used as a currency, as we speak.

>Oh let me pull out my calculator
>that will be .00009547733 Bitcoin for your pizza sir

>>28087868
XLM will be the gold standard of payments in the future.
It handles mor tps than both retard card and Visa combined with 1/10,000th of a cent for transfer fees.

>>28087868
1. People "invest" in currencies by trading forex all the time. You are basically "invested" in whatever currencies your bank accounts are denominated in. Ask Argentineans about their dollar-denominated bank accounts back during the peso-dollar parity days. :-(

2. Bitcoin can be and is used for purchasing stuff. I'm putting together an order for electronics right now, and will be paying with my massive Bitcoin gains, which are from spare satoshis off purchases I made of electronics back in 2015. Thanks to Elon today, the extra couple of bucks I had left over from buying LEDs from Adafruit are now worth roughly 220 times more than what I paid for them back then.

>>28088923
How about zero fees combined with smart contracts, tokenized assets and data-transactions on the same protocol?

>>28087868
BTC will eventually be a good currency. We can already see that there are somewhat of diminishing returns with BTC every cycle. Eventually it will be moving +/- 2% and that would be considered huge swings. When this happens there will be less desire to hoard, and people will be happy to use it as money.

Until then, people will probably prefer stablecoins for spending and BTC for storing value/investing. I dont know why everyone immediately expects BTC to be a world recognized currency that everyone accepts this early in its life. It will get there eventually and that will be when everyone finally starts using lightning in mass to to only pay 1 sat for transactions.

>>28087868
>hoarding
no this argument is incorrect. all deflationary periods in the US still had robust economic growth. nobody hoarded US dollars. the simple fact is, the satisfaction of wants takes over. at some point, you don't want that $3 that keep appreciating in value. you want 12 rolls of toilet paper. you deliberately choose not to wait until $3 buys 13 rolls, or 16 rolls, or 24 rolls, or even 100 rolls.
only fucking morons would wait. and for that same reason, only fucking morons believe the "deflation causes hoarding" argument.

>>28087868
I bought a few steam games with BTC back in eeearly 2017
thinking of it now, those are fucking expensive games now.

>>28090722
When you spend your Bitcoin, you buy more
TF is wrong w you

>>28087868
What is a currency? Something that is used for every day transactions. Are shells a currency? They were. Is bitcoin a currency? Not yet.
What core features must things have to possibly become a currency? Good store of value (tulips failed here), hard to come by (shells failed here, fiat fails here because of printing presses), divisible (gold failes here somewhat), easy to transfer (gold failes somewhat again).
Bitcoin fullfills most of these points. Crypto as a technology is capable of solving all of these points and more. Will bitcoin be THE new world currency? Maybe. Will there be a crypto based world currency sometime in the future? Most definitely.

>blockheads should research blockchains

>>28087960
Gold bullion doesn't claim to be currency, but from the invention of pizza up to about 70 years ago, you most certainly would have bought pizza with silver. And if you have bought enough pizza, you would have done it with gold.

>>28087868
Nothing will replace fiat currency because government has ultimate control over physical distribution of goods and can ban trade in crypto. What they can't ban is people going in and out of crypto and using crypto for loans, deposists, transfers, store of value, etc. It's the ultimate tool to build financial instruments on top of. But no you won't buy an orange with it in the shop. You'll get an insurance with it though, or a mortgage, because it will offer you a better rate.

>>28088765
I agree. But Monero is not very user friendly. It needs better wallets and UI.

Bitcoin is the perfect store of value in the digital age. Monero is the unironic fiat killer

>>28088863
Do you faggots even remember how the value of Bitcoin was established for the VERY FIRST TIME???

Some pizza shop accepted it for a couple of pizzas.

>>28087868
Bitcoin is the reserve currency, Doge is the float currency

>>28091654
Nothing is a fiat killer because the government can regulate whether retail shops accept monero or not. No shop is going to risk breaking the law just to trade meme coins.

>>28091913
Yes that's ETH. ETH 2.0 really, because 1.0 is a bit shit. And even it will only be usable within the crypto space, retail can always be regulated. You'll have to go in and out of crypto. Putting money in crypto would be like putting money in a bank deposit, easy to do but makes that money "locked away" until you want to get it out and into real economy again.

>>28091737
No, some dude in England received 10k BTC to order 2 papa johns for a dude in Florida.

>>28091654
Really you think so? I think MoneroGUI is really clean, then there's CakeWallet for the more normie phone guys. I agree that it's not very user friendly outside of that, though, but I think a normie looking at MoneroGUI vs say Electrum, MoneroGUI is alot more appealing.
>>28091919
How are they going to do that? Genuinely asking. I think Monero is a great solution, say, this new administration puts alot of pressure on guns, which they are going to, Visa starts fucking online gun retailers, these retailers accept Monero, it is decentralized and private, no one can peep into who's buying. What can the govt do about that, that isn't grossly violating freedoms, if it comes to that point and people aren't waking up to the overreach then we might just be truly fucked.

>>28087868
I bought some drugs with btc yesterday, consider your point refuted

>>28087868
I bought a years subscription to a wn podcast, a 4chan pass, and Brazilian estrogen with btc.

>>28092252
>How are they going to do that?
What do you mean how? You go into a retail shop, ask if they accept monero. If they say yes, you put them in prison. It's not hard to regulate retail.
>grossly violating freedoms
Look around you, normies will accept this regulation because don't you know that monero is an evil coin for white supremacists and if you use it you hate women? Why would you want to use it? Don't you LOVE the government? Well you must be evil then

>>28087960

That's why paper claims on gold, e.g. money, were invented.

Because its not society implemented yet. Some stores already take bitcoin. When it becomes stable thru technological growth, your us dollar will be rendered useless.

>>28088417
If they could just shut it down they would have sometime in... Maybe the last 12 years.

>>28092581
>B-BUT THE GOVERNMEN-

>>28087868
but bitcoin is designed to be spent, which is why it can be exchanged
kek

>>28092232
this
how retarded is this place now why do you have to say that

>>28092581
If you go into a shop you might as well pay with fiat. The actual application for Monero is that its like cash but digital. You literally can not trace it.
If gun selling turns into a black market, it will be extremely lucrative and eventually people will find ways to circumvent attacks. Some will have to bite the bullet, but 90% will get away. Crime always pays, and with monero it pays doubly so.
I dont hold Monero but I believe it is the best token for actual usage.

>>28092581
Personally I believe giving up hope like that so easily just because you believe a small set of people are going to eat narratives is almost as bad as eating the narrative. I also don't see the narrative being pushed at all. Spunds like some really abstract thing you have going on in your brain. Once something gains popularity it will be hard to stop. Already hard to stop wtih DNM's. More people just need to discover it's use. They can't lock everybody up.

>>28088027
>or invite further conversation
You really think? Damn, what kind of a faggot would do this on a message board?

i have bought many things with bitcoin

>>28093708
Answered a 10000 times by now.

>>28087868
low iq take and many logical fallacies, especially his last sentence. why even bother what a /pol/ tard says? he doesn’t know shit

>>28093520
Agree. The thing is that people eventually are pushed to illicit behaviours. I dont support the gun laws in the US, but I realise the symbolic power behind it.
I dont like drugs either, but I am not so short sighted to believe that the government should have their hands in these things. The US government is unironically the most subservient, neoliberal shitfest ever, no matter the party, theyre all gigantic opportunist liars and conmen. It all began with Kennedy and got worse from there. The US is a capitalists dream, why? Because capital reigns, and capital mixed wirh politics is the worst thing for citizens.
Bitcoin and Monero will win

>>28088730
This; NANO or IOTA. BCH also has much lower fees so even that is better than BTC. The recent Musk transfer of $1.5 billion feels like a waste to me, like the idea of it being the best digital currency is a joke if you look at other projects. It makes me feel like Musk is being irresponsible with his money

>>28087868
This take is so low IQ it hurts my brain. Most answers defending Bitcoin also don't get it.

Granny sends $15 to the pizza man for her pizza. He never gives her a pizza. She bitches to the credit card company and they refund her.

Granny sends $15 in BTC to the pizza man for her pizza. He never gives her a pizza. Whoops.

Granny keeps her credit card saved to her browser. Granny downloads a nice new toolbar. Granny's credit card is maxed out by a 3rd worlder. She calls the credit card company to report fraud and is refunded.

Granny keeps her bitcoins saved to her browser wallet. Granny downloads a nice new toolbar. Granny's bitcoins are taken by a 3rd worlder. Whoops.

Granny keeps her dollars in her bank account. Terrorists hack her bank and set her account to zero. The bank just sets it back.

Granny keeps her bitcoins in an exchange. Terrorists hack her exchange. Whoops.

The things people tout as features for crypto here are bugs to most people.

>>28087868
I just love the stock.

>>28095758
I really don't care what granny does. I want to get rich, i dont care if she uses it as fiat lol.

>>28087984
and anyone else with basic math skills or higher.

Bitcoin derives it's value from scarcity, security, and transparency. Not as an exchange tool for liquidity or velocity.

>>28087868
Bitcoin = Bretton Woods Bancor on steroids and descentralized and for freedom.

>>28087868

It's not much different to gold. People like saying gold is used in electronics and jewelry but it's primary function is as a store of value/inflation hedge, that's all there is to it.

>>28093518
>like cash but digital. You literally can not trace it.
Again, you can't trace it but you CAN put the store owners who accept it in prison. So no it won't replace cash for actual real life transactions. If you're trading physical goods on a scale that's more than just 1 guy with a garage, the government CAN grab you by the balls. You may not have a physical store but you have a warehouse, you have a contract with a delivery service, you can be traced back physically because you deliver physical goods. Nobody will know who sent you monero but if your store accepts it, it can already be a crime.

>>28087868
really nigga. This is an ancient argument but ok
Yes bitcoin is deflationary which makes it a bad currency because people would rather save than spend.
The function of it that the market is accepting is a store of value like gold or whatever which should NOT be inflationary.
>but muh vision
Look you want an inflationary crypto you buy any one of the gazillion inflationary cryptos. It is really not for us to say what bitcoin "should" be but instead observe what it is and how it is actually used.
This is positive vs normative economics btw.
There's a decent argument that gold and gold-backed receipts (aka USD before 1971) were a better currency than today's clown dollar.
>It just a FOMO bubble
Look bud this is fair to say in macro cycles because there has always been an overshoot of the corrected price level following supply shock (halving) but to call the whole thing a bubble I think is just naive at this point.
>>28088023
Also, this, while the inflation rate of bitcoin will always decline logarithmically the volatility is declining as well. Someday I think you see it trade as stable as gold

>>28087868

I bought Cyberpunk 2077 on PlayAsia with bitcoin.

Suck my nuts.

Looking at it now should have bought it with fiat.

>>28093387
>giving up hope like that so easily
I'm not giving up hope, I think crypto will be the place where the entire world stores their extra money, gets loans and insurance, mortgage and deposits, gets all kind of financial instruments they need. It will be huge. But you won't be able to buy potatoes with it.

>government banning
A little late for it, unless you can get the entire world to agree to it simultaneously.
Uncle Sam knows that if they ban bitcoin, China wins. China knows the same. As do the rest of the great powers and junior powers.
What if they get it wrong and they're not able to stop it? Then they're left behind while their adversaries zoom ahead.

>>28097515
BTC is dead in 10 years cause of Quantum Supremacy bro

>>28097515
>Yes bitcoin is deflationary which makes it a bad currency because people would rather save than spend.

Keynesian smoothbrain. Saving is what actually creates wealth. Saving is good because people will spend when they need to, for the goods and services they need to survive, and with the intention of creating more wealth.

Anyway, the digital gold theory is making a lot more sense.

>>28092810
Ain't based on gold anymore so what's the difference?

>>28087868
You have to spend it on vital stuff like food, clothing, shelter ect. It would just incentivise ppl to not spend on stupid shit. The wrong underlying assumption, is that this new boomer economy since removal of gold standard is beneficial, is retarded since the industrial revolution (biggest wealth creation ever) happened under the gold standard. So stfu u boomer-ballsucker

>>28087868
It’s not meant to replace fiat, but outperforms them all to the point that you’re better off parking your money into it than at your bank. Defi will be a superior alternative to banks, and through crypto cards you can spend a number of currencies in a crypto-fiat fashion

>>28097827
You can't ban crypto, it's impossible. People can get in and out through P2P and nobody can stop them. But they will ban shops from accepting it, you won't be able to use it in real life, you will have to go the extra step of transitioning into fiat before using it. Think what happens if they don't ban crypto use in the real economy. Central banks lose all power, their rates mean nothing, their ability to print money means nothing, governments lose all control over economies. They won't let this happen. They've accumulated this power for centuries.

>>28097904
I guess you just like to say keynesian?
I am not telling you that saving is good or bad I'm telling you that if your money has a return greater than the returns of anything else (which was true of bitcoin past ten years) there is no reason to spend it, only a fool would, so count investments in anything else out.
Maybe you think that's a good thing. It doesn't matter if it's sentimentally good or not. I am speaking to the usefulness of currencies that no one actually spends.
Also, I threw you a bone
>There's a decent argument that gold and gold-backed receipts (aka USD before 1971) were a better currency than today's clown dollar.
Bitcoin is not ready for this yet. Someday I think it behaves like gold when a terminal market cap is reached. Until then, don't bother trying to replace USD with it
>>28098168
I could say the same thing about gold.
In ten years you will see as many retail bitcoin transactions as you do today. Hardly any.

>>28088023
Why would BTC stabilize? The bigger it gets, the more money it has to be worth for the miners to make profit. Its biggest problem is it HAS to go up in value as it grows in order to stay profitable to mine.

Currencies that go up in value over time are very bad because as the OP says, it encourages hoarding, not spending. Once bitcoin stops being profitable to mine people won’t mine it and its price will plummet.

>>28095758
>hey goy want this chip in your hand?

>>28087868
I plan to only sell my btc to buy a house, a car, and whatever other necessities I need to survive. Otherwise I'm going to keep buying and hoarding btc for the rest of my life.

>>28089232
Raiblocks is better.

>>28098453
>price will plummet
To where? Bitcoin always reverts to miner breakeven price. So far anyways

>>28087868
Store of value

>>28089232
BTC transactions already require fees if you want your transactions processed in any sort of timely manner

>>28087868
>if I make a bunch of retarded assumptions and try to fit square pegs in round holes nothing seems to add up
Fiat exists for a reason, we need fiat to maximize liquidity because it basically translates directly into economic growth. Bitcoin is designed in a fiat environment to be an asset you can use to escape failing or manipulated fiat currencies.

>>28098605
If no ones mining it’s price will be $0 because no one can trade it

>>28098447
Excuse me for calling you smoothbrain because you're not a fool. However, I think you're so used to be surrounded by Keynesian economics and schools of thought that the you can't see how a deflationary currency wouldn't stay deflationary for long and is easily better than fiat currency. Like I said before, if Bitcoin was the only currency people had, they would spend it when they needed to and also they would have an incentive to save. As opposed to fiat where you spend it when you need to but saving will actually hurt you.

>>28098951
thats what precious metals are for

>>28099167
Nope. It takes weeks to ship metals across the world and paper metals are a scam where you trust Mossad agents with your money and never really get to verify anything.

>>28087868
>where this is wrong?
It's a dual currency system. They're right, but retarded. It's been studied at length. Check out some papers on superior currency in Brazil.

>>28099444
the BTC block queue will be 2 weeks pretty soon

>>28091913
^ This

>>28099744
Because some retard who hasn't thought about the subject for two minutes says so? If there's similar demand for physical gold transactions all the harvested physical gold in the world will be stuck on planes and boats.
Any day a new mine can be found that crashes gold prices. No precious metal can ever be a reliable store of value or be more useful as a medium to transfer value than crypto.

>>28100452
why does a store of value hedged against fiat manipulation require fast transaction times/liquidity?

its also known (roughly) how much gold there is and (roughly) the cost of acquisition. mines are all priced in; the gold still has to be extracted and minted

>>28095758
Elaborate Kleros shill.

this has been going on for over a decade yet here we are. stay poor.

>>28093379
Cause normies haven't started using it yet. Like 99.999% of people can't even envision not using ((((central banking)))). You can bet that when/if it becomes mainstream, THEN it'll happen

>>28097515
>bad cause people would rather save than spend
Whatcha doin', rabbi?