/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>28075936
Reported this thread to HMRC

first 12.3k is free, 10% up to 50k , and then 20% after that

use one of those online crypto calculator/sites, they're so fucking easy

>>28076007
>>28075936
if you want to lower your tax burden i guess you could max out your isa for this year but then you still have to pay CG on the crystallisation i think

>>28075936
what exchange do you use mate

move to the isle of man

Collateralised loans.

Without the correct filing you'll lose 100%
If you gambled on shitcoins through metamask or something similar they'll "take the lot"

Nothing on first 12.5k. between 12.5k to 50k it depends upon what your other earnings are. If you are unemployed neet you just pay 10% between those two figures. After 50k it's 20%

Only real way to lower tax paid is to split your withdrawals between two tax year. So take half out now and half out in a few weeks

>>28076030
That wouldn't lower your tax burden.

>>28076191
it is if he wants to use it to cash out and not as income

>>28076138
so what if I earn near enough 50k before any tax as my income for the year?

>>28076212

He's paying tax on the gains. Doesn't matter if he's going to take the money and light it on fire, they're going to deduct as per >>28076138

>>28076282
Yes that's why I said
>you still have to pay CG on the crystallisation i think

>>28076057
Mostly uniswap, i will cash out on coinmetro or coinbase

>>28076138
>>28076007
But these are the capital gains rate, I would have to hold for one year to qualify no? I've also made countless crypto to crypto trades and I've read these are taxable, will that rape me financially or am I fine to just calculate my taxes based on gbp in/gbp out?

>>28076744

Dude, if it's 6 figures, speak to a financial adviser well versed in cryptobollocks.

>>28076744
>But these are the capital gains rate, I would have to hold for one year to qualify no? I've also made countless crypto to crypto trades and I've read these are taxable, will that rape me financially or am I fine to just calculate my taxes based on gbp in/gbp out?
Like I said use Koinly or something to work out the crypto-to-crypto transactions. Hopefully they don't rape you too bad, but it might not be as bad as you think. As >>28076824 says, speak to a professional. But unironically, a significant sum will raise eyebrows.

20% atm but there is rumours of capital gains tax increasing in the near future

>>28075970
Reported your mum selling back ally blowjobs outside of Tesco's to the HMRC
>>28075936
Just cash out a little at a time

>>28075936
Or you can cash out to a few mates then get them to send it back to you.
Or you can get one of those crypto card where you can pay for things with it using crypto like a usual card. I know crypto.com does it but idk about anyone else. There must be more tho. But I'd you so that you'll never have to cash out.

Move to Portugal

Go to Gibraltar and cash out unless you want to feed Abdul's 9 starving children

>>28076869
>>28076824
>>28076744
Thanks, I'll check out koinly.
Define "significant sum". Say if i just cash out the tax allowance, nobody will care right? I'm a jobless student so no other income.
>>28077499
I actually do have poortuguese nationality. But I assume I would need to be a resident there for some time.

>>28077766
>I actually do have poortuguese nationality
Then make a bank account with them... Why would you need residency in a country you're a citizen of...? Seriously look into that. Also, if you cash out under the allowance then just say that's what you're doing and they should be like 'okay'.

>>28076744
i think that's true. some trades might qualify for income tax if they are short term trades, so that's what, 40%? there also might be an argument for gambling which is tax free, but good fucking luck with that.

>>28076076
how can they do this/know?

>>28077997
HMRC website specificly says that crypto is not gambling. So that's not going to fly.

Short term trades are only classified as income tax if you are doing it at such a frequency that it can be classed a full time job. In which case you can register a business pay business rates and pay yourself in salary and dividends.

>>28077947
Don't listen to this guy. If you want to pay 0% taxes on crypto you have to be tax resident so you need to move there. It may be worth if you are planning to cash out enough money.

>>28077947
I'll defo look into it more but I've lived in the UK all my life I'm a resident therefore liable for taxes here. that is my understanding. For portugal idk if it makes a difference being a citizen while not have residence.

>>28076312
Which has no impact on the tax paid. Putting it in an ISA just means that you are not taxed upon any gains within the USA. You are limited to 20k deposits a year though.

Move to Gibraltar and cash out. Think you need to reside there a minimum number of months then you are cgt free.

>>28079268
Fuck. off. SERIOUSLY?
You can move to Gibraltar for a year and get off for fuck all? ANON I COULD KISS YOU!
I didn't fucking know this, I thought I was fucked being a non-EU citizen now after Brexit.
YEEEEEEEEES.
I'M MOVING TO FUCKING GIBRALTAR BOYS!!

>>28079435
>ignores my post
>>28077658
>but somehow listened to the other anon
I don't get people sometimes

>>28078727
Portugal nationality will not save you from paying taxes, residing in Portugal will

>>28079435
Just remember that Gibralter is expensive as fuck to live in and there are expenses related to moving abroad.

See if you can find a legit online casino that allows you to buy funds in Crypto and cash out in real money as gambling expenses are tax free.

>>28079833
Yup that is what I thought

>>28075936
Is it possible to bring money back to the UK and return to live here if you moved overseas to pay off the CGT? As far as I've read it seems diffuclt to avoid if you plan to move back here?

got £700 to throw down lads how do i make it

>>28076583
Don't use coinbase. They reported transactions last year to HMRC.

As far as I see it, coinmetro could be the solution. Sell on their and hold in FIAT on the exchange.
Then you can pull out the full 12k a year for free to whack in an ISA. Then when coinmetro card comes out, just use it spend your fiat from the exchange direct. HMRC would never have a clue.

For info, I pulled out £100k in November from coinbase. Stupid I know. However I transferred the Link onto coinbase a week before from Binance so technically no one knows when I bought the crypto.
I'm considering just saying I bought and then sold immediately as lost money but then think they might ask for source of funds. Dunno

Chaps, who's best to contact before cashing out, a tax adviser (accountant) or a tax lawyer?

>>28078712
hmrc website, last i checked, said some trades may be so speculative and risky as to be classed as gambling. so, going all in, using leverage, using crypto in general (google btc gambling and you'll have plenty of quotes from top investors on this, not to mention the FCC in the UK itself), these could all be classed as so highly speculative that they are gambling. if you hodl, of course, this isn't an option.

>>28079640
Sorry anon I didn't see it.
>>28079863
Pfft. I couldn't give a shit how expensive it is. 300 days of sun, fantastic beaches, a great nature reserve, amazing sailing, on the doorstep of the Med.
ALL THIS AND I GET TO CASH OUT WITHOUT PAYING FOR JAMAL, RANJESH AND MOHAMMED!
I'm over the moon!!!!

>>28078727
Since you are portuguese I don't know if this would apply to you, but there are a ton of foreigners renting or buying here just for the purpose of lowering their taxes. I rent a place to a millionaire from other UE country in Portugal that he needs only for fiscal Address. Not sure whether Brexit has any impact in that either

>>28076061
IOM and Jersey don't offer much incentive for people with less than 8 figs, yes capital gains is free but then you have to pay income tax while you're there and u likely gonna have some investments off what you liquidate
>>28076276
first £12.3k is exempt from capital gains, after which you have to pay 20% (higher rate CGT) on gains if you earn more than £50k from salary/dividends/rental etc
>>28076744
not the same rules as in the US for short-term vs. long-term capital gains, it's only whether you don't meet the criteria of trading which is on hmrc website under badges of trade
>>28077404
kek good luck with that scheme
>>28079435
but what happens when the spannish send their tanks in anon? you'll be sent to the gulag

Another UK pleb here. Can I cash out under 12.5k without having to report anything to HMRC? I.e, coinbase to my bank under 12.5k and not have to explain anything to anyone?

>>28080861
>but what happens when the spannish send their tanks in anon?
I'll fucking nut them, the ponces.

>>28080953
Pretty much.
Be careful though as Coinbase will count any trades between cryptos as 'cashing out' and will report them. If you do that a lot on there and THEN cash out, it'll bump you over and you'll pay 20% on the remainder.
Also, if you have typically much less in your account and you just bang 12.5k in it, your bank may freeze it and ring you up.
Best to go and warn them, first.

Thanks bros. I normally have a fair few quid in my account but I'll call them anyway and let them know. I'm sitting pretty from BAO and ASKO gains so might take 12k out

>>28075936
It's pretty easy to evade if your crypto never touched a KYC site especially if you live in a place where poker isnt taxed

>>28082080
>>28080953
What would happen if you didn't call? would they potentially block the money from going in?

>>28082228
They wont block it going in, they might call you after to ask about it. Although I doubt it desu. 12k isnt that much to a bank. Depends on your bank too.

Last year I cashed out 70k from coinbase to my lloyds account and my account got froze for AML related shit.
Took a week and alot of ballache to unfreeze.
If you go from fuck all money in your account to tens of thousands it triggers the alarms at your bank so make sure you call em before you do it m8.

>>28080115
bump

>>28080861
>IOM and Jersey don't offer much incentive for people with less than 8 figs, yes capital gains is free but then you have to pay income tax while you're there
what if im a neet moving to isle of man and my only source of funds is from crypto?

>>28082406
It depends on context. If you have a regular income and have already spent/ received multiple thousand from crypto related sources that won't trigger any warnings for the bank.

>>28081132
>it'll bump you over and you'll pay 20% on the remainder.
Even if those crypto-to-crypto trades resulted in losses, or gains below the tax-free limit? poorfag here, its unlikely my gains will go above 12k before the end of the tax year and I've done quite a lot of shitcoin slinging in my time.

>>28080022
Bancor Network Token. x10 in a short time period is not unrealistic.

>>28075936
some guy advised me on cashing out low six figs too. Either side of this april 6th tax year coming up cash out £12300 (x2) at 0% and then up to £50000 (x2) at 10% depending on how much earn at your job, it may be only £20k either side of april 6th if you earn say £30k a year at your job.

Anything beyond that is at 20% taxes, 10% taxes is reasonable and i would pay that 20% isnt as bad as it seems either.

So if you are able to minimise the tax bill for £100k of gains to like £10k or something it aint too bad

Why not just keep some stablecoin in your wallet and cash out small amounts at a time?

why do you tax men try to harvest info here?

>>28083192
that's fraud and it's very obvious to banks what you are doing.

>>28075936
>What's the best (legal) way to lower my tax burden
move to dubai or monaco or singapore and withdraw your tax free gains then wire them to the UK

>>28083253
How is it obvious to banks? And how is it fraud?

>>28076138
i was the anon posting the other day about being an unemployed NEET paying just 10% on up to £50k of capital gains.

However I am unsure of how this could work for me tax wise. As this may be true for me next tax year when i quit. Might be worth it for some anons wanting a gap from work and also to help them cash out out an extra £50k at only 10% so £5000 tax bill.

>>28083379
it's tax evasion. it's called laddering, or something, i think. it's obvious because if you have 20k coming into your account in increments of 2k or whatever, the bank will tell hmrc who will then investigate to see if you paid tax. it's the first thing idiots think to do when trying to not pay tax.

>>28083653
Isn't it "Bo'l o'wa"?

>>28083811
>>28083653
bo ol o wa er

>>28083653
>>28083811
>>28084295
bo ol o woh uhr

>>28077997
its only income tax if its your job. Someone very organised with book keeping and runs it like a business.

Someone like ThatMartiniGuys trading qualifies for income tax

>>28078862
ISA is useless for crypto. Id be using one if i could, only boomer stocks etc are available in ISAs on the market in the UK atm.

>>28083811
>>28084295
>>28084415
Please stop speaking in africaans, this is an english board

>>28079435
He is wrong anon im afraid. Unless you are willing to stay living in gibraltar for 5 years after cashing out there, in which case its correct. 5 year rules for capital gains tax residency are listed there on gov.uk

>>28080385
you need to stay for 5 years however not returning to UK for more than 180 days i think in a year

>>28082156
problem come however when you buy a house or car etc with these hundreds of thousands that have appeared from nowhere.

If HMRC is ever alerted years later without you knowing they will truly fuck you in the ass for that.

>>28080953
its £12300 but yes provided you haven't sold any crypto-crypto or crypto-fiat that tax year for gains already.

you can withdraw more if you can prove that portion withdraw from BTC to fiat is your initial fiat amount of input.

UK tax fag here who previously worked for HMRC.

The amount of capital gains tax you pay depends on your income. If you are a higher rate payer then you will be taxed at 20% on gains above your annual exepmp amount each tax year.

Unfortunately you can't hold crypto in an ISA, but if you invest or.trade shares it is highly recommended to use an ISA as gains and dividends received are tax free. You can only put 20k a year though but this may increase unless we get a Labour gov again.

If you have a wife, or if gay, a civil partnership then you can gift some of your cryptos to your wife and then they can sell the cryptos and get their share of annual exempt amount.

I might do a UK tax guide at some point in the future if people think this will be helpful

>>28084974
Has your crypto wallet ever touched a KYC exchange?

>>28085150
How does the gifting work do i need to be married

>>28085150
>I might do a UK tax guide at some point in the future if people think this will be helpful
That would be great

>>28085149
Ive done many crypto-crypto trades almost always at a loss.

If I got lucky with one and withdrew it are you saying that I would be taxed on all those trades? sorry if im being a brainlet

Dont you pay 45% income tax on amounts larger than £150k?

Also what if you take your crypto earnings and invest in one of your other legitimate businesses? Are those earnings still taxable then?

>>28076007
Plus £20k ISA allowance if you haven't used it already. Another £20k in April when the new tax year starts

>>28085342
Yes need to be married but once you are you can gift any asset to your wife tax free. When she sells the asset she will use the cost you incurred when buying the asset to work out the gain. You will need to physically transfer the asset to her

>>28085353
I'll start working on it when I get some time, I'll probably create a new thread when it is ready but probably have to wait till the weekend

>>28076282
The amount of idiots like yourself who don't use ISAs to offset CGT is embarrassing.

Please seek professional financial advice if you're a brainlet

>>28085150

I once cashed out 10k in 2017 and didn't get no brown envelopes from HMRC.

Please create a guide as myself and others will need to know what are the best ways to cash out.

>>28080115
Bump

>>28085150
For BTC there might be a workaround though. You could buy Microstrategy stock or coinbase when it IPOs, not sure about grayscale ETF?

I have got a question though. I don't want to cash out because I want to continue hodling, however as I often trade BTC - Alts and the other way around, this is classified as realized gains, therefore my understanding is I would have to report it, but I don't want to as I will not cash out to the bank let's say and will continue on crypto. What are the chances they come after me? I'm OK to pay taxes when I cash to fiat but that is not the case for me right now

>>28085400
>If I got lucky with one and withdrew it are you saying that I would be taxed on all those trades?
The losses you made from shitcoin trading would offset the gains you made from the one you got lucky with, I assume you can write them off and just pay tax on the one you actually turned a profit.

>>28085674
isn't that because its below the 12.5k limit that would flag anything up? >>28085150 Can you confirm?

>>28085700
Also there's another UK company whose stock is basically pegged to cryptos, dont remember the name right now. Might be an option for a crypto-ISA wrapped tax free investment

>>28085991
argo blockchain. Might be available in T121 ISA

>>28085800
There is a chance that might be the case but 3 years ago when I was at HMRC I know they were actively targeting exchanges for details of all UK individuals invested in crypto. They are most likely focusing on big crypto players to make an example of them first and will then start going after the small fish. Generally HMRC are slow to react to the large datasets they get but when they do they show no mercy.

>>28085467
Capital gains is different to income

>>28086099
Can confirm, I have it in t212 isa

>>28082758
that's fine but it's a barren dump and you'd have to stay there for 5 years to avoid any liability if you plan to come back to the uk

>>28085700
It's a good question, I'll need to have a proper look into it and will include in my tax guide when I've got round to it

Fuckin noobs asking for info from degens spouting shit

Google, go to bitcoinuk on reddit tax thread.

And... https://youtu.be/wXfb3PpfPPk

You're gonna pay.

I've made a lot of crypto-crypto transactions since 2017 before trading everything for Link in early 2019 and holding since. Overall I made little profit (calculated using Koinly) and haven't paid the £1k of taxes or so I owe.
I haven't sold any crypto for fiat and I'm not planning on selling my main stack of Link, but I have been earning interest on that asset by holding it on Celsius. Would I flag anything if I only sold the tokens I get as interest seeing as they currently earn me below the personal allowance limit? Also seeing as I never bought these tokens, I haven't made a gain on them, any idea how that would work if I did have to pay taxes?

How the fuck am i meant to go through my litteral hundreds of uniswap transactions? ffs sake. I was hoping that as long as i take less than 12.3k out per year ill be fine.. how would they even see my uni transactions if ive 'lost my keys'?

>>28086961
You can take your ETH address and feed it into Koinly to calculate it for you.

>>28085700
possible if you use a cucked exchange like coinbase, if its overseas, non kyc or defi you are probably good

>>28085150
Turns out a useful guide already exists, I recommend you all have a read of this guide:

https://koinly.io/guides/hmrc-cryptocurrency-tax-guide/

>>28084753
Oh for FUCKS sake.
This is tragic.

>>28087774
Just live in Gibraltar for 5 years why not eh

>>28087690

Great find! I'll bookmark this.

Luckily I've kept crypto to crypto to a minimum in Coinbase

i have turned my 5k i had into the isa account into over 100k from the gamestop meme
how much tax will i pay if i pull half of those out.?

>>28088138
If it's in the ISA then congrats you have no UK tax to pay. You can withdraw as much of it as you want. You may want to keep it contained in an ISA and invest in something that pays divvies for tax free income!

>>28088346
thats great
any stocks you can shill me that pay good divvies?
was thinking GILT would be a good choice

>>28087690
This shit is far too fucking confusing.
I have traded into dozens of shitcoins, flipping them multiple times.
I don't even know where to begin.
It's a fucking joke that crypto-to-crypto counts as cashing out. I'd pay it if it was just money in - money out, a simple equation, but this is beyond me.
They can fuck off. I'm determined to get away without paying a penny, the greedy fucking bastards.

>>28085674
You wouldn't get anything from HMRC if you're under the annual allowance.

>>28088988
I don't work for koinly but looks like they offer a free service to go through your transactions and summarise it. Might be worthwhile checking that out.

While I agree paying tax is shit especially considering how badly it's wasted in this country, if you do decide to avoid it, HMRC may eventually come after you and they do have the resources to do so. Of course it's up to you if you want to risk it, but if they do go after you, you'll be paying interest and penalties on top of the tax owed which can be as high as 100%

I help people deal with HMRC investigations so people refusing to pay now eventually fund my salary when I help them minimise their exposure to hmrc penalties or in some cases avoid prison, but I ain't cheap!

>>28088587
FTSE 100 companies in general e.g. GSK pay good dividends but I personally wouldn't invest in the UK. You're better off investing in a US equity fund or an emerging markets fund. Just look at some of largest UK companies - BP, Lloyds, British American Tobacco, HSBC vs top US companies - Amazon, Microsoft, Tesla, Apple, Visa etc. It's obvious that long-term US equities will (continue to) outperform UK stocks.

>>28083182
Will that matter though? Holding shitcoins for months is a bad idea for obvious reasons. Once you swap for a stable coin it becomes a taxable event. The market, not the tax year, should drive your entries and exits.

>>28089749
This

>>28083506
Structuring

>>28076030
You would still need to pay CGT on converting to fiat to use your ISA. So you'd be not better off.

>>28075936
You can effectively double your tax free CGT allowance if you gift your gains to a partner or spouse. Not a good idea though if you are hiding your power level from them.

>>28089659
I don't mind paying 20% but they'll absolutely rape me if it's 20% on each transaction. I've literally made hundreds of transaction in the past year.

wait are we allowed 12.3k tax free every year? or just your first ever withdrawal?

>>28090157
>they'll absolutely rape me if it's 20% on each transaction
Why? 20% is 20% regardless of how many transactions it is split amongst. If you make a £100 profit on one, £50 on another and -£100 on another one your net profit is £50, so you pay 20% of £50 in tax. It is identical to a single transaction with a £50 profit.

>>28090291
The tax-free allowance resets every year so you can sell up to that amount each year without paying CGT.

>>28090291
Every year

>>28089659
do they have the power to come after you if you just leave the country? I guess they may do but just chase the highest profiles, not a random guy with 7 figs

>>28090555
Checked.
Really?
I'm fucking retarded, anon. I don't understand any of this.
Sigh. I hope I don't get raped by Her Majesty's Revenue Collectors. :(

>>28089749
>>28089839
Thanks based anons

>>28085150

If I simply sell via localbitcoins directly into my brothers bank account would this be enough for it to count as his capital gain exemption allowance or would I need him to actually set up crypto wallets and sell under his name?

>>28090671
Depends where your money is. If you deposit into a UK bank they'll just freeze your account.

>>28090636
It also tends to increase slightly year on year

>>28090719
My Stocks and Shares ISA is 60% US equities, 10% European equities, 20% Emerging Markets and around 10% bonds.
I'd recommend opening an account with Vanguard - they're very reliable (unlike trading212) and you can see exactly where you're investing your money + key information on your chosen funds e.g. dividend yields, P/E ratios.

>>28090768
>Huh you seem to have come upon 12.3k worth of capital gains but we can't seem to figure out where they came from?

I very much doubt it. Good way to get sent to prison for fraud.

>>28090778
They have powers called a jeopardy amendment which allows them to freeze UK assets or if you have a property, put a charge against it so when you sell they get their money. Of course if you leave the country before they know about you and sell all your assets once you have permanently left then there really isn't much they can do, provided you end up in some shit hole like Russia who would never give you up to the UK

>>28090693
You get taxed on your overall gains, less your losses. If total > 0 then you are liable to pay tax on that amount. If < 0 you can offset tax losses. But in short as advised in this thread use koinly. Another good place to look at is ethplorer, which is like etherscan but better: it shows each transaction, including swaps, and provides the dollar amount at the time. It's very easy to export that to CSV and do a SUM() to have an idea of how much profit (or losses) were made, then do a 0.1 or 0.2 depending on your tax bracket and you have an idea of how much tax you're likely to owe.
>I hope I don't get raped by Her Majesty's Revenue Collectors. :(
You will eventually if you don't file your gains. With the cost incurred by Covid the treasury will be desperate for cash, they will go after you and your crypto.

>>28090836
There is a possibility that they will decrease the tax-free allowance or increase the actual % you have to pay to help fix the economic damage caused by covid lockdowns.

>>28090768
Nope you'd be caught out. You'd still be liable to capital gains tax and there may even be inheritance tax consequences on your brother if you die of covid after the transfer

>>28091246
Yep that is true, I think they may go after pension contributions though. We will find out soon enough

>>28076007
and this is Capital Gains? I'm worried i'll be classed as a trader and taxed on top of my salary at income tax rates (50% or whatever)

>>28083653
Americans would pronounce it baddle af wadder

>>28091020
was also thinking on swapping from t212
does vanguard have any commissions?

>>28091565
>I'm worried i'll be classed as a trader
That's why you should only use koinly as an indication and not to generate your tax returns. Wouldn't want to have your wallet and all those transactions linked to your name. If you report as capital gains its unlikely HMRC will be bothering to find out how many transactions there were. However if koinly provides them with that information it could be a problem.

Also what's the threshold to cross the "investor" line to "trader" territory?

>>28091020
What's the best funds on Vanguard? At the moment I just have emerging markets and S&P500

>>28075936
Jersey

>>28091733
Their fees are extremely low. I opened my account in September and have almost topped up the annual allowance (20k) and have paid only £2.59 in fees so far.

>>28085150
Anon this is really useful, thank you.

Do you have an idea at what point i'd be considered a day trader rather than investor? I've made many crypto-crypto trades over the past few years.

I really don't want to pay 50% of my gains as tax....

>>28091878
Not so much a threshold, more on the actions of the individual. HMRC refer to the badges of trade,essentially if you are carrying on the actions of what a normal trader would do then they will consider that you are trading. However don't always accept HMRc's interpretation. A good tax advisor who specialises in disputes can challenge HMRC accordingly

>>28085636
but, don't you have to cash out first in order to put that cash into an ISA? Surely you get taxed on the cashing into fiat part?

>>28091182
Okay, thanks anon. I'm on Koinly now. It looks amazing. I'm going to buy the package deal for this tax year and see what's what.
Thanks!

>>28092046
You can stick with those two. I'd put more into the S&P 500 than emerging markets though, just because emerging markets tend to be more volatile.

Your portfolio should also take into account your investing time frame. If you're looking to invest just for a short period of time before withdrawing your money e.g. 5 years I'd avoid emerging markets and put your money into something more stable e.g. LifeStrategy 60%.

>>28092151
I wouldn't worry at this stage unless your making millions from this. Until HMRC successfully challenge one of these cases in the courts and they win, that's when I'd start worrying ,but they would give appropriate guidance on what they would consider trading at that point. For now just pay your capital gains and hope 4 years pass so that HMRC can't touch you for this year

>>28092469
Thanks anon, I will need the money in a year so I'm going to have to withdraw it. Part of me just thought that China would do very well this year so went for it, but yeah I should probably go for something safer.

>>28091878
Good shout. I'll likely go for straight up reporting CGT, money in, money out and play dumb if they come knocking.

As long as they don't ask for proof of transactions?

Thanks for all this info anons. How do companies such as Blockfi come into this? If I were to gain interest on my crypto, would it only be taxed after those interest payments exceed £12,300 per year? Which also would you recommend, putting gains into ISA accounts such as Vanguard, or simply getting interest from Blockfi, Celsius, etc?

>>28083456
Becouse of the 12.5k free allowance you would only pay £3750 in tax if you had no other income.

For illustration. Let's presume you are employed in a job earning £30k (roughly the average) and want to withdraw £50k in crypto. 12.5k is tax free leaving £37.5 to pay tax one. You earn £30k so pay 10% on the next 20k = 2k. On the remaining 17.5k you pay 20% = 3500.

This means that you would pay £5.5k in tax leaving you with £44.5k remaining. An effective tax rate of 11%.

Unless you are a high earner the CGT here is pretty good. I would suggest that unless you are looking to buy a house outright it would be better to shift your wealth into stable coins and withdraw as required. There is no point withdrawing more money than you would ever spend in a single year as you would just loose more to tax.

so if i say worked for like 6 months of the year, lost my job and earned say 8k during that, then later on made 8k in capital gains, would i add those together for total tax bracket? or is the capital gains seperate?

Ok so I'm a basic rate tax payer in the UK. Here's what I've calculated so far based on these assumptions:

Say I make £100K in crypto from a £10K investment this year.

£100K - Initial (£10K) - CGT allowance (£12,500) = £77,500

Of this £77.5K, I pay 10% on the amount that takes me up to the higher income tax threshold of 50K.

Say I earn £40K, I pay 10% on £10K (£1K)

I then pay 20% on the remaining £67.5K (£13.5K)

Total tax paid = £14.5K
Pocketed cash = £85.5K

Could be worse I guess...

>>28086292
I see, and they are taxable as soon as you cash out? Or could you use it as working capital for further investment, in say commercial real estate or something.

>tfw work at HMRC

It’s pretty easy but also soul destroying, I want to at least get into the CGT department so I can understand this shit

>>28076007
+ 12.3k for your mum
+ 12.3k for your dad
+ 12.3k for your brother and sister
+ 12.3k x 4 for your grandparents
And so on there are ways always.

And repeat every year what is the problem fren?

God this country is fucking shit.

>>28094624
And then am I right in thinking that I could instantly put 15K ish into an ISA to avoid CGT on that? Reducing my tax burden a further £3K?

>>28094718
TSP? Stay in HMRC I regret going private even though more money. I will probably go back so that I can trade stonks while pretending to take a shit at the expense of the taxpayer

>>28094718
I used to work for them when they were called the Inland Revenue.
They used to have a funny system, whereby everybody was in a 'Band' or pay grade.
They used to shift managers about among their pay grades to different departments, and they often knew nothing about them.
I quit when they put a woman in charge of the telephone systems maintenance area that didn't recognise, and couldn't work, a fax machine.

>>28095111
Based.

>>28095111
based trips
>>28094767
agreed, wouldn't mind paying all this tax if it wasn't literally worse than burning money

>>28080115
Please does someone know?

>>28095348
a monero wallet

>>28095348
Find one of your friends whose dad is a (recently) retired CA. Ask them about it on the side, and they'll likely give you some good advice in return for a bottle of Macallan 12, or 15 if they're quite good, or 18 if they used to do Mick Jaggers tax returns.

>>28083653
bo'el o wo'er

Already invest in crypto but are the Stocks and Shares ISA options through likes of Plum/ Moneybox any good bros? Or am I as well getting a dedicated trading app

>>28092924
>As long as they don't ask for proof of transactions?
Yeah basically. Though even if they do you might be able to fight back. Still preferable to giving them all that info without them asking. Not sure how frequent it is for them to request a breakdown of calculations, though I'd assume it depends of how suspicious it looks i.e. if you suddenly withdraw half of your net worth to your bank account they may ask for more details.

Soon based rishi will increase capital gains to a flat rate of 50% and fuck you greedy cryptocunts to high hell.

That's the only way this country will be able to repay the furlough scheme

>>28097976
If he does that I'm unironically taking the monero route.

>>28098088
Take the Monero pill brother.

>>28077499
Lol applying for my teaching residency now, just purchased a Vila €250000 with a collateralised loan, I owe no tax

>>28078727
You just need to invest 250,000 in property and they give you tax residency

>>28080115
Just befriend a Jew

>>28075936
If you are starting out don't be this guy and invest blindly. Open up a stocks and shares ISA and invest stocks through there. If you want crypto exposure you can buy the crypto mining companies(MARA, RIOT, ARB) or in the future crypto exchanges(Coinbase IPO) stocks through your ISA and not pay a single penny in tax.

>>28095587
>>28098548
Oh well

>>28085150
>I might do a UK tax guide at some point in the future if people think this will be helpful

please do. also can you put into the guide info on ways to legally avoid tax that we can bring up with our accountants etc. also put donation addresses in the document (preferably privacy coins) so i can donate when you save me a lot of money.

>>28099247
The advantage of using a recently retired CA is that they will be under no obligation, and can't be bothered, to report you to anyone for anything.
They'll know some good legal strategies, like maybe putting some of your gains into something that you think will fall and come back up to generate some temporary losses to offset gains and such like.

>>28094739
is there any issue with actually doing this

>>28100307
Literally google the gov website rules on transferring your allowance.
>>28094781
Nobody is so fucking retarded after being repeatedly told that any trade is a disposal and any profit is taxable to keep asking dumb shit like this.
Koinly shills out in force today.

>>28100307
Yep you have to gift those assets to your family and each gift will count as a disposal so you will personally be taxed at that point. You can however gift to your wife or husband tax free and make use of their allowance.

>>28100841
>Koinly shills out in force today.
It's a site that calculates your taxes and you don't even need to pay anything to use it. How does that make us shills?

>>28094173
Diversity Sunak hinted CGT rates are going to get worse in future, so there's a bit of an incentive to pay tax sooner rather than later (plus crypto is in a bubble phase now)

>>28099635
See>>28098727
A guide already exists. The best way to avoid UK tax is to relocate to a shit hole and love this for 5 years while you dispose your assets. Then come back and enjoy your gains tax free

>>28092229
>>28092647

is margin trading CGT or income tax? what about options?

20% cgt

>>28101774
Ah phone posting it chose the wrong link... See >>28087690

>>28085507
That's for stocks not crypto

>>28101561
You're right vladimir, making a spreadsheet to track my cost basis over time is so difficult let me use your site which I am sure is totally free! :)

>>28102744
Unless you want to generate a full tax report the website is free yes, do you regularly talk about things you have no understanding of? Take your meds.

>>28097976
>get put on furlough
>put furlough money towards crypto
>double my money
>cash out after April
>get taxed 50%
hell is a flat circle.