/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>27353451
You build equity

>>27353451
>pay $10k/year on property tax alone
>$10k
>Want to know how I know you live with your parents?

>>27353576
OOOOooooOoOOOooOoOooOooOoOoOooooOoOooOoOooooOoOoOoOoOoOooOoOOOOoOooOoOOooOoOoOoOoOoooOoOoooOoOoOoO equiiittyy

>>27353451
> mortgage
Wrong, you buy it cash, then you own it and rent it out and have wealth for eternety that even your children and grandchildren will benefit from.

Renting is for fags who live in the moment and don't think about their future.

>>27353576
>muh equity
or i could just build a stock portfolio with the extra cash i'm not lighting on fire

>move out of house
>get money from sale

>move out of apartment
>get nothing
That's why

>>27353451
please be a troll

>>27353677
>t. poorfag who lives in bumblefuck midwest

>>27353819
>get money back that you paid
wow, excellent, meanwhile i just got my ass reamed by taxes for however long i lived there

>>27353451
>rent apartment
>have to listen to and smell the neighbors
>10k per year apartment probably has cockroaches

if you dont want a house, buy a camper or a trailer.

>>27353728
>buy in cash
and how do I get enough cash to do this??

>buy house
>rent it out
>live in 2k van parked behind mcdonalds
it's literally free money

>>27353728
>landlording
kike

>>27354132
Xrp

>>27353451
you will own nothing and you will be happy

>>27353451
>be azfag
>mortgage + utilities + insurance is less than renting a shittier property
>Homeowner with ez payments at 22

>>27353451
where do you live that rent is the same as property tax?

>>27353451
My property taxes are less than $800 a year with exemptions. I'm in one of the best school districts in the state too.

Property tax flies under the radar. Nobody ever complains about it. I guess the angry mob doesn't own any property.

>>27353451
You just compared a one bedroom apartment in the ghetto to a large house in the upper class suburbs.

>>27353451
I pay the same, if not probably less, (in my country Australia) than a renter would if I take advantage of a 30 year term it cost me nothing to live weekly, or I can pay equivalent, own it in 15yrs, have complete ownership in and say in what I do in MY HOUSE, I can also use it to rent out to someone else making it an asset, which in turn allows me to negative gear on the expenses (taxable claims) then retire without having to lift a finger.

idk rentee, sounds dangerous to get your bags packed when you folio goes bust.

>>27353451
You're right OP. Owning property sucks. Landlords are saints for dealing with all the stress, and they always ending up losing all their savings trying to pay for repairs amd taxes. Being a renter is so much better. You have no risk, it's the same cost, amd you can walk away at any time. We should be praising landlords for their sacrafice.

>>27353576
lmfao came here to say (((equity)))

>>27354415
>insists renting is better than buying
>doesn't want any landlords
How the fuck are you going to rent then?

>>27353451
>pay $10k/year on property tax alone
nigga what the fuck
obvious you live with your parents or you're a rentcuck who's projecting

>>27355016
not when you include the interest

>tfw gave my ex-fiance $50k so she could afford to buy her own place instead of being a rentcuck for life after I broke it off with her after 6 years

But I stole away her best years without ever going through with my promise of putting a real ring on her finger, so I think she deserves it.

>buy house
>have to make a 25% down payment so you dont get cucked by PMI
>dont get any equity for the first ten years because of amortization
>constantly have to fix shit because the mexicans did a cheap rush job on your McMansion
>have to deal with Karen HOA over trivial shit
>negro family moves next door and brings your property value down
>zoning laws change and boomers start building multifamily homes all around you
>sell house and have to give 6% to the RE brokers, plus pay for the appraisal and taxes

>>27355874
renting out single family homes is jewish

>>27355957
i live outside boston faggot where houses are fucking ludicrous. yes i am an apartment rent cuck currently, why else would i be salty

Is this seriously an argument? Because any money i spend on an apartment is essentially money i am burning. Money spent on a mortgage at least i could maybe get something out of it in the end

>>27356712
didn't say anything about the mortgage, just taxes and (((interest)))

>>27353451
If you need to live in an area with 10k property tax I don't know what to tell you. I have 30 acres a house poll barn and pay under $400 a year in property tax.

>>27353576

>>27356673
>Boston burbs

Theres your problem.

>>27353451
>>27353739
>>27353867
>>27354055
>>27354415
>>27356021
>>27356673
>>27356947
>wait someone tell me how being a housefag is a better deal?
>NO NOT THAT REASON!
>NO NOT ALL OF THOSE REASONS!
sage goes in all fields

Found a nice house in the Midwest for 87k. Mortgage would be roughly what I’m paying now in rent. Feel weird about buying with everything going on but it’s hard burning 375 buxx a
Month. Place looks nice and it’s in a city that is under the radar and a bit of a hillbilly rep. Another similar city a town over has blown up

>>27353576
You literally build more money by investing while renting a cheap apartment. Houses are a fucking money pit and the only reason to buy one is for the space and privacy afforded by one. They cost so much more than an apartment its unbelievable. Its like buying GME at 500 and selling for 300

>>27353451
The money you put into a house is yours. The money you pay towards rent is the owners.

>>27353451
There's nothing wrong with renting for a few years while you're young and building up some wealth. In the short run that's cheaper and makes it feasible to live in cities where the good jobs are at.
In the long run, you want to own your own house so you're not giving some Jew big bucks every month.
PS: Don't live in states with high property taxes.

>>27356351
fuck bro...

>>27356673
Why? If you buy a home, pay it off in 5 years and then buy a new home and rent the old one out its a no brain money making machine. And renting houses means higher rent payments so it filters out most of the undesirables

>>27353451
>rent is 10k
>property tax is 10k

Hard to beat that deal. You squatting or is that your family discount?

gotta do 40% down on a 15 year mortgage and aggressively pay it off to not get oofed by (((interest)))

even then, you pay taxes ad infinitum. being alive is a rigged game, isn't it, lads? i just want a cozy home with a yard for my dog.

Property taxes are absolute horseshit

>>27357909
I lived in my last house for essentially free after selling due to equity. I paid off a bunch of bills and then used the rest to leave the state and use as a down payment on another house this time with a chunk of land. this loan is even better 2.75% vs 3.85% rate. Thats almost free money.

>>27353739
Back to /r/finance, redditor. IPA-drinking soibois like you are the only ones who say to rent forever.

>>27357909
This. Property tax, mortgage interest, utilities and upkeep will wipe out any gains. Unless you buy a house in the next Vancouver. A house is worth it if you have a family, otherwise fuck that. It's literally $100k for a shack here, I'd pay $20k at most

>>27353451
Hello fellow Jerseyfag. You just have to move to a livable state or get section 8

>>27353451
But what if you divide the house and rent the rooms. Maybe live in one of them for a while. Then with that money get another house where you live or do whatever

It's cheaper to buy if you live in it until the house is paid off. If you plan on moving after 5-8ish years the fees and taxes and maintenance make it more expensive to buy vs. rent.

>>27357520
forgive me for not making a gme or rubic thread pajeet

seems like living in this faggot city is my problem. guess i will have to find a new job. thanks for the replies anons

Bought a house early 2019 for $125k at 4.25% interest, just refinanced at 2.625% interest and its value climbed to $150k. In the current monetary rate environment an asset's appreciation outstrips the interest rate you finance it at. It's literally free money, on top of no longer paying for rent

>>27356351
That guy absolutely lets other men fuck his wife doesnt he

OP's example is flawed. There's no landlord on Earth who'd rent out a property for less than the property taxes.

>>27356947
Interest eventually goes away. And just because you didnt mention it doesnt mean it doesnt exist

>>27357909
Back to /r/finance, redditor. Enjoy sucking your landlord’s cock.

>>27353451
if you are smart you will be renting now

>>27359965
I own a house you fucking faggot I'm just stating the truth if money is all you care about. It's a money pit.

>>27353451
If rent is $10k, your property taxes are going to be like $1-2k a year max.
With a house you build equity. With rent you’re not saving any money. I was in a 700 square foot apartment paying $900 a month. I moved to a 1300 square foot house and pay $950 a month on mortgage and taxes.

Also now is literally the best time ever to get a mortgage because interest rates are so fucking low

>>27353451
Houses are better living arrangements than apartments.
If it's purely money you're worried about you can live in prison for free.

Most people retarded ITT. If you borrow at 3% and that means you can keep monies in the market at 8%, that's a win. But, factor in taxes on Buy/Sell, closing costs, property taxes, all depending on where you live.... it's only a sure thing if (1) you don't live in a boom/bust place where your equity can go underwater pretty easy so you at least get inflation on your equity, and (2) you're going to live there for a while.

>>27360088
rates are low but principle is up 30-45%

Fuck Property

Buy $CLF Stock

>>27353451
Dude I live in CT, and unless you have a half million dollar house, you're not paying 10k/yr in taxes.

>>27357909
>the only reason to buy one is for the space and privacy
you will be happy

>>27354132
Get a job

Because the only thing worse than pedos are landlords .

Fuck them all.

>>27357909
If the square footage is the same and they’re in the same area, you’ll pay less every month on a house than you would an apartment

10k in takes is kinda high compared to what you would pay 10k a year in rent for.
A good shape 3 bedroom house that you could rent for about 1200 a month costs under 2500 a year in prop taxes but the market is weird now, I was all cash and 0 investments when the housing market crash happened and I bought the housing dip in 2010 and paid it off by 2016, this was due to a comedy of errors and luck but i have learned so much about money and saving/investing in the last 11 years. I recommend buying a house to live in but not as a flip or investment right now.

>>27356673
Get the hell out of Boston burbs and MA in general, then.

>>27357909
This just isn't true man. I know finance is difficult to wrap one's head around but buying something is always better than renting if you're going to sell the thing. You don't just use a house and throw it away.

Houses appreciate at 1% a year. Current interest rate is 2.5%. So you're losing 1.5% on your investment of say $700 a month (=loss of $10.50 per month). But you're not, because if you didn't have the house, you'd be renting for about the same amount. So instead of losing that $10.50 per month in interest net appreciation, you're actually gaining $689.50 per month over renting because you're losing $10.50 per month instead of $700 per month.

To actually make more money investing that $10.50 in the stock market, you need a 6,600% return every month (to turn your monthly $10.50 into something more than $689.50). Good luck with that

i make 81k a year and unironically don't see how people can afford homes

i'm scoping out a $120k stater home near me and even that seems kind of iffy

am i just a retarded pussy?

>>27360349
The places with the biggest nicest houses end up paying relatively little tax. If you go take a drive from Greenich to Bridgeport the mill rate goes from 11 to 54

>>27354092
As someone who has done everything above, this guy gets it. Buy land in a state with low property tax or buy a camper

>>27357909

This is fucking retarded. How about not buying a home thats falling apart and you cant fix, or in a dying neighborhood. How about actually investing in your home so you get a better return. Yeah the downpayment and all that shit is more up front but I pay less a month on mortgage, utilities, maintenance, etc than I would renting and throwing money away.
You cant just buy a house and do nothing and expect gains when shits falling apart.

>>27360085
*glurp glurp glurp glurp*
AHHH, a nice estrogen-filled New England IPA. Now THAT’S what you call a beer!

>>27361138
Yes

>>27353451

Want lower interest, make extra payments on the principal. The more you pay down the principal, the less interest you pay, the faster you pay off your mortgage. The faster you pay of your mortgage, the more equity you have.
Equity is your money.

>>27361138
No, everyone else is rats in a race. I'm in the same boat senpai

>>27353451
I live in one of the most expensive real estate locations in the world with some of the highest taxes. Upper class suburb Toronto. 10k in taxes? That's very high for the average home anon.
Here home prices increase so fast that the profits over a few years make buying worth it. Example: bought my second house at the end of last year and the value has already increased 15%.
With the amount of new Canadians arriving to the area this trend should continue for at least a decade.

>>27361138
Easiest way if you’re single is to live with your parents for a few years and save aggressively. That’s what I’m doing and I’m on track to buy a house in about three years. Doesn’t work for a lot of people, but it’s definitely a shortcut.

Buying property = investing in land.
As population go up Land = more valuable
owning land > renting land

>>27361801
just make sure you want to live there, dont buy a house just to have a house, it's even ok to pay a little more for better because you will get beck what you pay in value regardless of what the market does based on how good the house and area is.

>>27361138

If it seems iffy dont buy it. Houses always come and go. Know what you want and start with that. Do you want a basement, fenced yard, etc. There will be give and takes. You can always bail out after an inspection but it cost you money, but its better than buying a shit place that needs tons of work you arent prepared for.

>>27361138
You're just retarded. You can very easily afford a 200k home on 81k a year

>>27361138
I make was making $75k when I bought my house two years ago, it was $120k. Like I’ve said several times, it’s as expensive as living in a small apartment. If you can get rent for like $300 a month, maybe you could argue renting is better, but apartments like that don’t exist outside of the projects.

Ten grand property tax!? We pay like I think 2500 maybe and it’s locked into our mortgage paymenr

>>27353451
Only reason for buying is if you are having children and want them have an easier start in life. There is not other reason.

>>27361138
Most people live paycheck to paycheck with mortgages that run over 30 years, while waiting to inherit their boomer parents homes. Those who don't have an inheritance in waiting are fucked.

>>27361789
This is one of the worst things you can do. This is a debt friendly environment. Even without taking appreciation into account, with a mortgage at 3%, paying off that debt faster is the equivalent to getting a 3% return using that money somewhere else. You almost certainly are going to be able to get better than a 3% return doing almost anything else with your money. Put the extra down payment on almost anything in the stock market and it's a better return than paying it extra to lose 0.5% rate

>>27362222
Quads of truth

>>27354912
This.

My property tax is only 1200

I have bought and sold every place I have lived in. From co ops to condos to a house and have made money through every step of the year. I know its been a 10 year bull run on homes but I still cannot conceive of paying someone else's mortgage and taxes.

>>27361138
If you cant afford a house while making 81k a year then yes anon you might just be remedial

>>27361542
You faggots always conveniently forget closing costs when buying and selling the house and those take up a huge chunk of money. Not to mention school and property taxes are raised every year. And God forbid you have to buy a new furnace, AC unit or roof before you sell your house as well. Putting money into your house generally doesn't increase the value of it either. It might help it sell quicker but almost never raises the value.

>>27362257

Eliminate mortgage, have additional $3k monthly to invest in the market and an appreciating asset to sell for gains. You're right, that sounds like a terrible idea.

>>27362257
>One of the worst things you can do
No. It’s guaranteed return on your money. Nothing in the stock market is guaranteed. It’d be wise to try and invest your money with higher return, but calling it one of the worst things you can do is retarded, because paying off debt frees up funds and improves your credit rating

>>27353451
Live in Florida where property taxes are low dumbass. You obviously live in a cucked state, property taxes for a 250k house are like 1500 a year

>>27362654
>remedial
phew i thought i was retarded

it just seems like a trap. im very noncomittal and overly risk averse. + the market in my area is very inflated right now. lots of people trying to leave cities after gook flu has skyrocketed principal

>>27360206
>tfw lived in a loft above a shitty bar throughout college.
>It was cold, dirty, loud, but for some reason miss the damn place.
>garage door for a front door.
>Go back to look at it, it's been all tarted up, now $4k.
>same shitty bar downstairs, same turds on the sidewalk, car with a broken window.
and some retard will pay for it.

>>27362194

Renting prices are absurd. Oh you want this stuido apartment that 400 sq ft. That will be $700 a month. Oh you want a 2 bedroom 700 sq ft. That will be over a grand a month.
Maybe if you have friends renting with you, only then, is it really cheaper but then you gotta deal with that bs.

>>27362257
Oy Vey Goyim yes having debt that accumulates interest for 30 years is good!

>>27362986
actually looks very comfy.

>>27362986
>cold ass garage

Bet you feel stupid feeling nostalgic for that place

>>27362947

Depends on which county you live in. The millage rate varies. Pinellas sucks.

>>27362986
great place to live in college; no drywall to break kek

this in mtl?

>>27362654
Maybe if you live in a low cost of living area. But $81K is really nothing if you live in NY, MA, or CA. Good luck buying a house that isn’t borderline condemned or in the middle of nowhere for any less than $400k.

>>27362744

You can put closing cost into the mortgage. Yes those things suck but being able to actually sell your fucking house is part of the game too. I bought new furnace and ac for my house. Yes it cost a lot, but will help sell better and energy cost went down while I am here.

>>27362955
The only downside to having a house, in my opinion, is it’s much harder to pack up your bags and leave. You can still do it, it just takes a lot of work trying to sell it.

That being said, houses will always remain valuable assets. The prices may fluctuate but in general they will go up in value over time, at the very least following inflation. I can pretty much guarantee your house will be worth more in 30 years than it’s worth now, even if the market crashes and crabs for the next 10 years

>>27363756
i am in fact in NY, but far upstate so homes are crazy cheap. 25% of national average tier

>>27353451
$10k on property tax? Where did you get that from?

>>27361255
Holy fuck I didn't know it was quite that much

>>27363230
it looks like a damn prison cell - except without windows

>>27362986
honestly looks kinda nice

>>27353728
No you fucking idiot, there is no point in tying up your money in property like that, when there is such opportunity cost. You get a 30-40 year mortgage or an interest only mortgage on an apartment building, you put a 25 percent down payment, and then you rent it out at a profit and then take your profits and invest them elsewhere. You only buy in cash if intend to flip it, live in it, or just hold it a bit to hedge against inflation and make a profit.

>>27353576
depends on the macro trend of the market. real estate has been slowly going up but now it has peaked and should start down turning for 20 years.

>>27364420
It looks cold and uncomfortable. Those lights are way to bright.

>>27364420
>>27363230
do you people live in the sewer?

>>27353451
at the end of the day the house is yours
I'm not against renting but it's weird when you live in a house that's not really yours, it feels wrong to do long term
personally I would rent if I planned to move around a lot, i.e. multiple times in the span of like 10 years

>buy a triplex
>let one rentfag live in one space because they love it so much
>let another rentfag live in the other
>each pay half of your mortgage and property tax
>live for free in the third

I literally can't see why someone would be a rentfag

>>27357909
>cheap apartment

Well, if you think about it, living in an apartment fucking sucks, whereas living in a house rocks.

>>27364634
There is no way the cost of land will be trending down anytime soon. With people feeing the cities en mass due to poopy streets, high taxes, disease, and a million other reasons owning land is a good investment IMO

>>27362944
Come on making 3% on the stock market is nearly guaranteed. And it's likely you will make much more in a year. You have to be a super riskless cuck to think you can't get a 3% ROI on something. That's the kind of thinking that keeps people renting in the first place. When the fuck did the men lose all taste for risk. It is completely absurd to me that people would be hand wringing that 3% is guaranteed while it's not an absolute 100% on the stock market (even though it's 99.99%).

I mean fuck if you are not completely brain dead you can even start a business and make more than 3% on your investment. Selling soap or literally anything. You have to be a total and absolute loser to use your money for a guaranteed 3% return (LESS when factoring in home appreciation)

>>27364420
>>27363702
>>27363530
>>27363230
Picture isn't of the place, but yes, it was oddly enjoyable.
>bed and bookshelf up top.
>motorcycle, couch, toolbox, workbench, PC, and 3d printers downstairs.
>Stairs would give you splinters.
>Pipe above the bed that would gurgle loudly whenever there was rain.
It was in Ypsilanti.
>>27364040
It had a very large single pane window that I could crack open in the summer.

>>27353451
The only places where property taxes are that high are liberal northeast states that vote democrat 100% of the time and everyone has a black lives matter sign in front of their house.

>>27365420
I said it would be wise to invest it in something, but paying down debt with interest is not “one of the worst things you can do”. Again, it’s literally guaranteed return on your money, frees up funds, and increases your credit score. It is 100% a good idea to increase your mortgage payments. Is there better ways to spend your money? Maybe.

>>27354498
Lol

>>27354785
>AZ bro spotted

Feels good to avoid the apartment blocks that are filled with Cali faggots. Plus my equity jumped 60k in the last 2 years.

To the fags that insist on renting: enjoy paying mortgage-comporable prices on a shitty one bedroom apartment that you have zero say over. Enjoy being beholden to a landlord that can fuck your life on a whim. Enjoy dealing with shitty neighbors that can and will get you evicted because they heard you breathing on the other side of your paper walls.

Faggots.

>>27362018
>this trend should continue for at least a decade

Imagine thinking the housing market won't crash this year.

>>27354055
>bought a house 6 years ago for 160k
>sold it last year for $355k
>taxes were $2200/year
???

>>27366158
How does paying down debt free up funds? You're locking up money in a usually super illiquid asset. The opposite of freeing up funds. Stocks get you a better return and are super liquid. Saving the money to start a business is less liquid and more risky but will get you better returns. Paying debt is zero risk but very, very illiquid, hence high opportunity cost.

For an intelligent individual, even just stocking up on cash instead of paying down debt is the smarter option. So long as you're looking for opportunities to put the cash to use when the time comes. You would be remiss if an opportunity came and you had to sell your house to jump on it. Stocks are a great balance of being virtually as liquid as cash while getting you an almost guaranteed return. The cost of not having money available for when opportunity knocks is greater than the interest on a 3% mortgage

>>27353739
>extra cash I’m not lighting on fire
>says the rent cuck

>ontario
>housing bubble

I'm saving but shits insane here.

>>27367257
Yeah, it's extremely fucked in Ontario right now. Even heading up north, like what the fuck. The Atlantic provinces still have good pricing on things, but it's also jumping up like crazy, even on PEI. Like what the fuck.

>>27353451
...Where the fuck do you live that you can rent an apartment for $800 a month?

Renting a one bedroom apartment usually costs ~$20k a year and if you're lucky it includes water but you still have to pay for your other utilities.

>>27367368
I figure I'll save to 100k and buy a house then / car and just commute to turrono.

>rent a bedroom in a shared house for cheap
>save up the rest for a few years
>buy $5000 worth of land
>build $20,000 yurt
>have comfy life on your several acres of land

>>27367988
>>build $20,000 yurt

>>27353451
best to buy a home you can possible make a total pay off on within 10 years of signing the mortgage

>>27368097
yurts are extremely cheap

>>27361255
I would off myself if I had to move to bridgeport

>>27368452
It's also a fucking yurt

>>27367692
>rural area
>live in manufactured home paid for by previous owners
>pay $125/mo to landlord for lot rent
Even when I was going to the local university my apartment near campus was $300/mo.

>>27353451
That pic is my dream house

>>27354092
I wish I bought a camper honestly. You can get a nice new camper for 45 grand (much less if used) that'll pay itself off in 3 years of renting (here a decent 1bd is, including all utilities, $1300/month) I would have taken my camper to Florida every winter (in Canada) and just hang out on the beach and ocean all day long.

>>27353702
>Ooohhhhh my rent goes to the jew landlord and doesn't enrich me in any way.

>>27368497
yurts are also extremely based

>>27353739
And then give it all to the landlord. Lamo

property value will always go up more than total prop tax in a year. your earning money overall when you decide to sell house.Its like someone is paying you to live there when your done.

>>27368839
>tfw live in hurricane zone
>tfw high winds knock my meme tent down

>>27353451
Rust belt. 1k taxes no prob, houses at 75k.
Renting here is a waste. Maybe different in a hot market like bay area nyc.

>>27353451
Depends on where you live. In flyover country buying a house is much cheaper per month than a decent apartment. My house is about $900 including tax and insurance, but an equivalent apartment (sqft and quality) is double that. You also have to live near blacks in an apartment.

>>27353451
If you set up your shit correctly, and buy in a growing market, your payments never go up. I've already made at least 20k on mine.

>>27369446
>not building an underground hobbit meme tent

>>27357909
>being so young you haven't seen a housing bubble
You have to be 18 to post here, kiddo.
>>27354132
>where do we go when we need money?
To work.
>>27364492
We're literally talking about a residence. Learn to fucking read the thread.
>>27357520
>>27355016
Based and logicpilled
>>27359491
So many jobs are remote these days. Why let geography determine your destiny?
>>27356673
>anything others can do but I'm too stupid to be able to do is Jewish
You have to pay rent but the Jew lives rent-free in your head.
>>27354982
It's only a problem when it's unreasonable. If that's the case, why are you living there?

Being a housefag is better but we decide to stay rent cucks because we’re not going to enslave ourselves for 30 years with these current prices

>>27362944
>guaranteed
Prices can go down you know, the market has corrected itself many times in the past and we're overdue for another correction

>>27353451
>what is inflation
really, any physical commodity that is a hedge against fiat is a decent buy, especially in today's clown world

>>27356351
that image is depressing

what matter is the housing market is strong and stable. it will never suffer another huge crash again.

>>27371054
t. boomers and kikes

Because you're a retard who uses strawmen.

Here's a rl story faggot
>graduate college
>get a decent 55k/year job
>talk to some lenders that service higher risk (see: young) home owners
>get myself a small 115k house in a white-hispanic lower-middle class neighborhood
>I only had 5k in savings
>I got a gubment program through the state and took out a 5% down loan because my income just barely qualified
>I ended up making like $70 from this purchase because of gubment programs
>mortgage is ~850/month, or the price of a shitty apartment in a shitty neighborhood
>pay more on the morgage over time
>end up selling for 170k four years later, with 80k left on loan
>i.e., make around 75k or so net profit
>use that money to put down 20% on a nice 390k home in a nice, affluent town and neighborhood
If you're not taking advantage of gubment programs, you're a retard. If you're paying some other faggot's mortgage, you're a retard. Start small, go from there.

>>27353451
The only way renting is better is if you cannot afford buying or are using you money for investing
Any other reason is stupid id rather buy a house and pay that shit off than rent but im investing right now so i can't

>>27355384
>30 year
You're getting assfucked.
>>27356544
>25% down-payment
You do understand that your networth doesn't decrease when you put money down right? The more money you put down the higher your networth since you have more equity and less debt.
Your second point is invalid as well.
Don't get a 30 year mortgage, you dumb cuck.
>mcmansion hoa
These are issues of your own creation.
The rest of your points are retarded.

>>27370427
>I'd rather pay rent that increases every year for the next 30 years instead of a locked in mortgage over the same time period and have fuck all to show for it while the homeowners get equity
This is your brain on rent

>>27371054
>never
kek, ngmi

>>27371054
I'll be getting in on the ground floor of Musk's arcology company.

>>27366941
>13.2k in Property Tax
>29.3k in Capitol Gains from the sale
>21.3k in broker fees from the sale
>maybe broker fees from the purchase
So your costs were about 223.8k without including repairs.

Not bad. 130k over 6 years doing fucking nothing.

>>27365632
oh god I live in ypsi bro what bar

>>27370513
Paying off money that you owe with interest is guaranteed return. If I owe you $100, and if I don’t pay you back by next week I owe you $200, me paying you back right now means I have $100 that I don’t have to give you.

>>27353451
As an investment a house is only worth buying if you can either rent or househack it.

Right now inventory is low and prices are jumping and has been jumping since Corona hit. Probably won't be the case when the eviction and foreclosure ban is lifted, but that could be extended to god knows how long.

>>27372117
You wouldn't owe anything if you didn't buy.

>>27353451
In my country when you pay of a house and sell it without buying a new home, you pay close to 50% tax over the money.
It is seen as income tax on the highest bracket.
I am never buying a house, ever.

>>27371284
It's funny how you assume anyone can find a house under $180k nowadays, even in my flyover shithole the average is $250k for a small home with no yard.

>>27372543
Holy shit, where do you live, soviet russia?

>buy house 6 years ago for $140,000
>is now worth $400,000
hur dur idk bros

>>27372449
I’m not talking about taking out a mortgage, I’m talking about paying down debt with interest. Yes taking out a new loan per se is always going to be a guaranteed loss of return. I’m talking about paying back debt you already have.

>>27372315
There won't be a housing crash. The government simply won't allow it to happen because it would cost a lot of politicians their job plus it would fuck boomers hard and God forbid anything bad ever happens to them. Once the lockdowns are over they'll just pass some legislation allowing anyone behind on their mortgage to tack the missed payments on to the back of their mortgage and extend it by however many months they missed.

>>27361134
>buying something is always better than renting if you're going to sell the thing
>Buy a house
>Sell it a month later
>Lose 10% of total value on realtor commissions, inspections, etc

my father and i literally cut off my family after they inherited my grandma's 4 bedroom house in the middle of the Napa Valley and sold it AT THE FUCKING BOTTOM OF THE HOUSING CRASH FOR 300K 2 WEEKS AFTER SHE DIED

and those people who bought it just sold last year for 750k

and my family also sunk that 300k on a fucking retarded sleep apnea business


Renting is only good if you're too poor to buy a house because it covers any issues that come up with the house itself that you probably couldn't afford to fix

>>27372706
Western euro.
I live in an 4 bedroom apartmanr build in 2010 with parking garage under it for 750 euro a month.
I can live like this because retards who buy houses subsidies this, through massive taxation.
Basiscly socialism

>>27372992
What I love the most, is time is against them, eventually they will just die. Unless we too become the boomers.

>>27371284
55k a year jobs are very competitive believe it or not, salaries have NOT adjusted for inflation at all

There are no 115k or 180 houses left Anon, unless you want to buy a ranch that is a few hours outside of a city.

>>27353451
1. Become housefag
2. Pay off entire house by age 65
3. Never save for retirement
4. Live comfy life off social security until you die

>>27362257
You're forgetting that Debt = Risk
Elemimate the debt and then invest.

I move to a new city almost yearly, I have enough capital where theoretically I could buy a house and sell it when I bail but why would I? Really I just like not having to worry about shit and being able to mudstain the toilet and not care because it's someone elses problem

>>27371476
Or if you are moving around a lot for work or work in a volitile industry that's prone to boom and busy cycles and mass layoffs, which both apply to me.

Where my fellow euro cucks at?

>priced out in buying AND renting

>>27373544
55k is the average for the unwashed masses in America.

Why not just buy an apartment and get the best of both then dumb fuck

>>27373607
lmao did you take a 40 year mortgage and never pay it early, and yet still didnt have enough to save for retirement?
I can't understand how these people exist. And SS isn't gonna be all that comfy.

>>27353451
decent apartments are at least double that price in a medium to high CoL area

>>27353451
Depends on the market you're in. Real estate is so hot that you would probably be buying a relative top at this point. The moment interest rates go up housing prices will come crashing down

>>27373273
Right, boomers will eventually die but not until they've bankrupted all the boomer gibs programs and fucked over the rest of us. It's a problem they've known was coming for decades but refused to address while they were still in the workforce when a tiny tax hike could have taken care of it, so now younger generations will be forced to pay a much larger tax hike to keep boomer gibs solvent while we'll receive less once it's our turn to receive boomer benefits. Medicare and Social Security shortfalls are going to be a massive issue in about a decade and it seems everyone is content to just do nothing about it until shit hits the fan.

But boomers don't care about leaving the rest of us to scrounge in the devastation they leave behind while they ride off into the sunset. They've never given a fuck about anyone else, not sure why that would change at the very end. Enjoy your inheritance of higher taxes, cut benefits once you become the boomer and garages full of hoarded garbage you'll just throw out (the bank gets the house thanks to the reverse mortgage).

>>27374082
>And SS isn't gonna be all that comfy.

even $1000/month without having to pay for housing would be comfy for me. but I have no friends and never do much of anything.

>>27374377
>The moment interest rates go up
So never

>>27361134
Fren, respectfully, you don't have a fucking clue how distorted some housing markets are. I am renting a 2 bedroom apartment on the subway line in Toronto for $1100/mo and the mortgage alone on a comparable unit would be triple that, plus condo fees, plus property tax, plus utilities.

Bonkers.

If the property tax is the same as the rental price, then why is the landlord you’re renting from charging you just enough to cover the tax?

The answer is that you will never find a house to rent that costs the same as the property tax, otherwise the landlord is letting you live there for free. You’d always spend more renting, and if you get a standard mortgage you’ll be better off than renting.

Rentards eternally btfo by the free market as always

>>27353451
Are you planning on job hopping?

>>27353451
>he thinks he’s not paying property taxes through rent
Stupid fucking retards make this same thread every time.

>>27371859
No it’s called I don’t want to buy your bags when I can just stack for 5 more years and retire somewhere cheap. Notice how every normie in here is bragging about how they bought 4 years ago and are up 50k for no reason?

>>27374732
Regular macroeconomic fluctuations seeming impossible to you is a sign that you're deluded in some way

i'm continually amazed at how relentlessly fucking stupid and ignorant the average /biz/ poster is. yes, good goy, keep renting. keep throwing $1000/month minimum into a black hole with 0 return.

>>27366941
>Put that 160k into SOXL, FNGU or TQQQ in March
>Millionaire
Good job

>>27374826
>If the property tax is the same as the rental price, then why is the landlord you’re renting from charging you just enough to cover the tax?
>
>The answer is that you will never find a house to rent that costs the same as the property tax, otherwise the landlord is letting you live there for free. You’d always spend more renting, and if you get a standard mortgage you’ll be better off than renting.
>
>Rentards eternally btfo by the free market as always
Because there's a limit to how high rents can go based on working people's salaries. Right now people with rentals are either lowering rents or letting them go vacant because they don't understand that rental properties aren't an infinite money glitch

>>27362947
But then I have to live in Florida...

>>27353677
my property taxes are about $14,000 a year and that's nothing compared to my parent's place
property taxes there are around $30,000

>>27374756
That’s bullshit anon, because that means landlords have room to increase the rent far higher than it is now because people have no option. Unless the city in question has rent limits, this is not possible.

>>27374896
>prices everywhere else go up but prices where I want to live aren't going to change in the next 5 years
Good luck with that

>>27353451
Home ownership is a Jewish ponzi scheme. You buy something you don't really own for the express hope of selling it later to another idiot.

>>27375134
Yes, but that’s because of market conditions. Guess what, mortgages are also at an all time low rate of interest.

If landlords can’t find tenants in order not to lose money, they will put the property up for sale like you quite rightly said. Guess what happens then? House prices go down and buying still remains a better option than renting. Unless you have a complex construct of renting and sale laws, the market will always ensure renting throws more money away than buying.

>>27353451
you can rent out that home to pay for the bills and then some extra, as you get yourself a better place.

owning is better than asking for permission imo, ide rather pay more to have my own property, even if I wasn't renting it out.
>also if you cant afford at least 45k in housing cost alone. you are poor

>>27375246
I’m an Eastern European anon who is in the US. Prices will go up sure but not enough to affect my six figure stack. I can build a nice home for 50k back home. Obviously if you are American or don’t have double citizenship you are more fucked

>>27375229
then move out of kike jersey, jew york, or niggerfornia.

>>27368839
https://www.ebay.com/i/284152213602?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20161006002618%26meid%3D99fa4d5b12a84c2598b64d01557bb335%26pid%3D100694%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D154003632913%26itm%3D284152213602%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DDuro+Span

Or a prefab Quonset

>>27375575
Doesn't happen that quickly, for any truly hot housing market they are still speculating on the price of the house primarily.

>>27373861
Household average. So 27.5 individual

>>27375400
As opposed to renting?

>>27376031
No. Renting is simply a service.

>>27364767
nah I genuinly like it. dont know why.


t.guywhogrewupinawarmlogcabininthewoods

>>27375236
>Unless the city in question has rent limits, this is not possible.
It's a rent controlled unit. But another example. My brother has one too that's $1600/mo for a 2 bedroom that isn't subject to rent controls. Again it's still half price buying a similar unit

>>27353451
>doing either
Buy a fucking RV dummy

>>27375986
Neat. I've been considering options for kits for off grid living, but that kind of roof, it'll be hard to make a raincatch for. But I like that price.

>>27373665
How the fuck is debt risk. Debt is more constant than anything else in your life. It has clear terms that do not change. It is the OPPOSITE of risk. It is one of the only known values in anybody's business. God damn it's no wonder so many people stay poor. I guess when this stuff is designed by high IQ jews you need a high IQ to navigate it.

>>27375694
Well, that makes more sense. You're leaving the US at the right time. Shit is going downhill fast here.
>>27376009
>>27373861
Those averages include groids who have never worked a day in their life and Mexicans who make nothing on paper because all their work is paid under the table. I'd be interested to know the average income of whites and Asians.

>>27367368
I was thinking of buying a rental in Nova Scotia simply to get it to the point where I would have a cheap non-callable loan to use as margin on my stocks. But failing that I will wait for the boomers to stampede to the exit on their 4 houses they are demanding a million a piece for

>>27354055
You mean the taxes you pay to keep BLM away from your home, bomb brown people to keep your decadent lifestyle going, and educate Treyvor-Bill and Jeremiah just enough to make them functional members of society? Yeah I’ll take homeownership and taxes that you can repeal any day over eternal “rent is due in 2 day goy!”

>>27374405
deluded boomer hate. every time. Always looking for a scapegoat. You should be kissing their feet for making your life so easy. People are so spoiled they don't realize how easy they have it. And I include myself in that category.

>>27376615
>How the fuck is debt risk.
The actual state of /biz/ and Americacucks
>Debt is more constant than anything else in your life.
Unless you're not a brainlet and eliminated your debt or never accrued it.
>God damn it's no wonder so many people stay poor.
Yeah they are all in debt like you.

>>27376824
If you make 55k the last thing you want to hear is how much Whites and Asians make.

>>27376615
>I guess when this stuff is designed by high IQ jews you need a high IQ to navigate it.
It's genuine discrimination against anyone that doesn't have their background

>houses are a money pit
I would agree with this sentiment, and it's worth noting that numerous billionaires have said that they waited until they were already wealthy to buy a house, including Elon Musk who didn't buy one until he already had multiple kids.
Boomers make good money off houses because they got lucky, not because they're smart investors. My mom made a profit of over 10x on her house but it takes many years of waiting and living in the right market to do that, and that profit is partly offset by the amount of money you spend on the house in the interim (taxes, repairs, renovations).

>>27353451
Southwest USA's housing market is going completely insane and running away from me. I make 75k and save aggressively but I still don't have enough to scoop up a nice home. I could buy some 150k starter shit shack but then my quality of life doesn't change at all from the 500/month house I rent. Couple that with that I don't pay utilities here and am close friends with my landlords, I don't think I'm going to own a home until one of my parents kicks the bucket.

Who the fuck is paying 10k a year in taxes?

>>27377500
The funniest shit I see is people will buy new kitchens every 5 years and call it an investment

>>27353451
In both the countries I live, there's no property tax on the house where you live in, so buying is generally better in the long run, if you're not planning to move soon

>>27377144
Debt is how you make money. It's how you accumulate wealth. Have you ever looked into how this stuff actually happens?

When you have a business, you expect to get, if you're really good, 5% ROI. If you invest $20k, 5% is $1,000 a year. But if you can borrow $1M, suddenly a 5% ROI is pretty sweet.

Same thing with a house. You get a mortgage for $500k at 3%, it's basically a loan the bank has given you for $500k at 3%. Invest that and get 5% back, you're getting 2% on $500k, and you're on your way.

Again, this is high IQ jew shit and lots of people like you can't think through it. You also probably harbor thoughts like, "if I pay extra on my debt this month it's better because it's all going to the principal." Extremely common thought among low IQ people.

Best way though to make money is like Trump. What he did was get lots of government money. Getting 5% even on a $1B project isn't going to make you a billionaire. But getting 5% on a $1B building that you convince the government to pitch in $300M for - you IMMEDIATELY get $300M (on paper, you have it in cash when you sell), plus that 5% is on the whole $1B, so it's an extra $50M per year.

Don't start a business

>>27357909
buy an apartment then retard

>>27353451
YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY

>>27377579
Up here in the PNW that starter shit shack would run you $350k.

>>27376894
Please don’t fuck up the Maritime housing market. Homes should be to live in, not for speculating on ching chang chong exchanges for internet shitcoins. Leave Maritimers alone. They’ve suffered enough already.

>>27364492
This guy fucks

>>27377763
well done anon, you've discovered how business loans work

>>27377968
Basically soviet russia but more expensive

Except you can have ""freedoms""

>>27377763
People like you are why societies fail. All you deserve is a short rope and a long drop

>tfw live in California
>shittiest apartment costs $1k/mo
>currently paying $1500/mo for 2 bedroom
>the only houses under 200k are 500sq ft shacks deep in the hood
>anything under 300k is a major fixer
>rich tech workers from San Francisco moving to my city and shooting prices up
Nuke us pls, Kim

>>27378019
That's a nice kick in the nuts considering that's my favorite part of the country. The southwest is on its way to that with these gay ass double digit year-over-year increases. Go figure the moment I start making money costs start ballooning.

>>27377763
>just ask for 1B and your good to go, nothing can go wrong

>>27378313
>a short rope and a long drop
How does that work out?

>>27353451
you get to say you own it after youre 79

>>27377763
Debt is profitable during inflation. We’re in a hyper inflated economy, so believing that debt is always good is reckless and risky. We saw massive deflation last spring. They had to lower the interest rates because no one was taking out loans. Saying debt isn’t risk means you’re a fucking brainlet who has only looked at this bubble we’re in. It’s hard to pay back a loan when the price of the dollar is double what it was when you took it out

>Have $50k to put as a down payment
>Only make $35k a year
>Can't even get a house worth $150k

>Someone has $8k for a down payment
>They make $50k a year
>They can get a house in the $300ks

W.T.F.

>>27378706
Extremely painful

>>27377579
>pays $500 a month
>makes $75k a year
>somehow still doesn't have enough for a deposit on a $300k house

My county property taxes are $2400 a year. Average rent is $1,414 for a 928 sq/ft apartment with a 3% YoY change in price. My home mortgage in this area, with property tax included for a multi-story 1200 sqft home with front and back yard is $1150. Rent vs Buy is pretty market dependent. No matter what, unless you're living at parents, you need to live somewhere. Do you want to spend a premium to live in an "updated" box with neighbors above, below and next in a situation where you can never earn money from the property, or, pay closing to hodl or rent down the line and make profit? No, most people won't earn huge returns on their first home but I'd take my $10k gains on this house than keep getting cucked by a landlord. Personally, the amount of space I have in this house vs apartments down the street alone is worth it. As long as you're aware of maitenance costs and don't delude yourself into thinking you can flip an entire house yourself with no prior experience, it makes 0 sense to rent where I live.

I can refinance my house to a lower interest rate (which I just did) to lower payments. They will never lower rent prices on you. Ever. If you live in a major metro area, this whole argument is a sad cope.

>>27377119
No one. And I mean absolutely no one had it easer than the boomers. All they do is use and abuse what was granted to them by their parents and ensure no other generation after them could enjoy or have the capacity to match their wealth because they're selfish fucks through and through. My mother in law leeches off my father's income and pretends to know everything about real estate because they've moved so much, yet she has no fucking clue how amortization works. She thought her current mortgage was so high because of "muh property taxes" in her waspy New England neighborhood, and not with the fact that they did a 15yr mortgage on a $420k house.

>>27378313
you're poor because you cling onto misguided ideas of the past. adapt to the times, retard. businesses and people use debt to their advantage every step of the way.

>>27378788
just be born 5 years earlier bro it's that simple

>>27353728
Make $5000 a month
>Pay $1500 rent, save $2500 for house
>By the time u have the cash, the 100k house goes up to 200k

VERSUS

>Pay $600 mortgage, $100 tax and $50 to fix the wc
>live in the house of your dreams NOW

>>27378880
You are saying this shit like there are still quarter million dollar properties out there to buy

>>27358980
Feels bad man. I got a new job a couple months ago and now pay $2200 (including all my ultilities) a month, 1,000 sq ft apartment with a balcony. NJ sucks.

>>27377763
taking out debt this lightly is incredibly stupid, especially an interest only mortgage. the fact that you even think this shows how soft the government has been on reckless debt accumulators and property speculators who are so entitled that they think they are all but guaranteed a return on their real estate investments. as soon as any kind of mild economic shock happens or we enter a deflationary environment you're going to find yourself extremely overleveraged and in a bad place

>>27357108
Cityfags whine about the city prices but they stay

>>27378853
You'd need 60k down on that to avoid mortgage insurance. Or are you suggesting I put down a way smaller deposit and shitfist over half of my monthly income to housing alone?

>>27353451
>pay 10k/y in rent
>20 year later you keep paying 10k/year

>pay 10k in mortgage
>20 years later you pay nothing anymore and own a house

yeah you're a big brain OP

>>27379322
>Or are you suggesting I put down a way smaller deposit and shitfist over half of my monthly income to housing alone?

yes, lots of people do exactly that. in the long run its a better idea. mortgages get paid off eventually, rent doesnt

>>27379126
today's mortgage rates are equal to or lower than even our jew liar government's estimate of annual inflation. if you buy a house in cash you are the dumbest nigger alive.

>>27358911
Living in cuckada literally forces you to rent because the housing market is so utterly fucked. $300k for shanty, low build quality homes in the middle of nowhere. Luckily I can live in the US where the homes are so much more affordable

>>27362231
>while waiting to inherit their boomer parents homes
not so fast bucko
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_release

>>27379442
>yes goy don't worry the mortgage will be paid eventually

idk depends on your goals, if you want to move all the time, renting is fine, but if you are going to stay at the same place for longer than 10 years, i don't see how renting is better

>>27379442
And lots of people are shit with money and work til they're in their 60s. Saving for retirement by maxing my roth and 401k is way more appealing than destroying my buying power to live in a nice house with furniture I still have to buy. The main plus would be a yard for my dog but that doesn't feel worth the tradeoff

>>27378581
This is the great part. You do this through a company, so if the $1B business goes to shit, the company sells whatever assets it has and it's over. You personally aren't at risk

The tough part is getting someone to give you the money. But even then it's mostly a matter of gradually asking for more. I'm eyeing a movie theater that just went out of business in our town. $1M investment, but I have another profitable business in a $250k building. Personally our income is $50k a year so I am frugal, but it doesn't matter. This crap is all about having a plan and executing. Get Getting 25% on a $250k building, if I can even get 5% on the theater I'm looking at doubling my yearly income.

Again, no risk to me. All done through an LLC. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to run a business with a physical building. Everyone tries to do things online now, but local business has the advantage of much less competition. And since everyone is moving online the cards are stacked in your favor for a local business

I want people to build wealth. But the average person has ideas that are the opposite of how to do it. Bankers convinced people of this crap even though they do exactly the opposite. The name of the game in banking is leverage. Financiers make fractions of percent on highly leveraged investments, yet they tell people all the time to not have any debt or leverage. Dunno how they did it.

>>27379288
The bright lights of the city draw them like moths to the flame, and then they’re trapped in the work-rent life cycle.
The biggest con the rich ever pulled off was tricking people into uprooting from their homes in pursuit of non-existent wealth in the cities.
Luckily, in this day and age, you no longer need to abandon your home. Just Zoom call that meeting bros.

>>27379665
Lmao boomers truely were a mistake

With everything rolled into mortgage I pay much less to live in a house than I do to rent a comparably quiet apartment with at least a one car garage (i have a three car garage used as a shop and repair motorcycles for ez money)

>treating your house like an asset to trade with
ngmi.

>>27353451
you write off the interest on your tax return, which if you're a home owner probably puts you in a bracket enough to actually get taxed by uncle sam and helps you

>>27379867
So you’re talking about taking out giant loans and if they don’t workout, liquidating everything, and if that’s not enough filing bankruptcy? Sounds completely retarded

>>27379867
>just assuming that 5% is a constant
Until covid-XX comes around and fucks your shit

>>27379816
Depends on your situation. Steady job? Intend to stay in the area? A house might be a better bet.

DON’T BE A RETARD WHO BELIEVES THEM

If you can rent for a low price, it's worth it. If you can buy for a low price, it's worth it. It all depends on your options

>>27368770
Renting is freedom and flexibility

>>27380061
Similiar for me. I pay a few hundred more a month compared to a decent aparment, but I have a basement, nice backyard, garage, and don't hear the fat cow neighbor making heavy steps in their apartment

>>27354415
Seethe poorfag commie

Property tax here is .7% of the value per year. So even a $450,000 house is only $3,150 in tax. what fucking mansion do you think average people live in?

>>27354415
t. poorfag

>>27380292
Start an LLC, take a $1M loan to get a movie theater. It doesn't work out, the bank forces you to sell the theater, maybe it sells for $1.2M since the land appreciated, you paid $100K on the loan, now you have $300K net right there plus whatever your profit was for the years you were operating the theater. Tell me where the downside is?

Of course the modern american male has no appetite for risk and thinks himself as a complete loser, so the modern american male thinks he will not sell a single ticket. Even if you are such a loser so that not a single ticket is sold, you make the $200k from the price appreciation. If the price doesn't appreciate you lose nothing except your reputation because the bank takes it on the chin and files a loss. You have a harder time getting loans, but you are a loser who can't operate a business so it's for the better anyway

>>27380718
>Property tax here is .7% of the value per year. So even a $450,000 house is only $3,150 in tax. what fucking mansion do you think average people live in?
I'd like to know who these millionaires driving new cars are

>>27353451
>pay to not be homeless or pay to own a house
hmm hmm hmmmmmmmmm

>>27353451
it's not. Buying land is better than buying a house

>>27362986
So you're saying you can actually just wheel a power washer in there and clean all that shit out of the wall but they don't do it?

>>27377763
>Debt is how you make money. It's how you accumulate wealth. Have you ever looked into how this stuff actually happens?
Incoming brainlet logic.
>When you have a business, you expect to get, if you're really good, 5% ROI.
If your ROI is 5% longterm, that abysmal. You might as well just put it in the market and make 10-14%.
>If you invest $20k, 5% is $1,000 a year. But if you can borrow $1M, suddenly a 5% ROI is pretty sweet.
Except you have to pay interest on that so subtract the interest from your 5%.
>Same thing with a house. You get a mortgage for $500k at 3%, it's basically a loan the bank has given you for $500k at 3%. Invest that and get 5% back, you're getting 2% on $500k, and you're on your way.
Except that you still havr to livr somewhere. So where are you getting the money from this house?
>Again, this is high IQ jew shit and lots of people like you can't think through it. You also probably harbor thoughts like, "if I pay extra on my debt this month it's better because it's all going to the principal." Extremely common thought among low IQ people.
>Best way though to make money is like Trump. What he did was get lots of government money.
Nigger, Trump is going broke.

>>27380897
>Start an LLC, take a $1M loan to get a movie theater. It doesn't work out, the bank forces you to sell the theater, maybe it sells for $1.2M since the land appreciated, you paid $100K on the loan, now you have $300K net right there plus whatever your profit was for the years you were operating the theater. Tell me where the downside is?
lmao you are fucking retarded which bank is going to give you a loan to buy a movie theatre and where in the world is it going to move up by over 20% in a year. This has to be some literal child

>>27380897
The downside is losing money on the loan. You just assume everything goes up in value always. Maybe the movie theater only sells for $750k and now you’re down hundreds of thousand dollars.

>Land always goes up in value
It doesn’t, we’re in a period of hyper inflation. Like I said, debt is profitable now, but potentially risky because of deflation.

>>27381136
It’s hopeless. He’s promoting a system that needs constant bailouts from the public purse. There’s no reasoning with cokeheads.

>>27379130
That's what I am saying because you can buy homes in this area for $180-250k, which is what I did. It's not a 1970s stand alone rancher waiting for Joanna Gaines to come spit-up whitewash on the exterior and fireplace, but for a "starter home" in a metro area with walkable everything, basement to roof in great condition, it does exactly what we need. We got hit by the rona lockdowns hard last March-April and were able to pay mortgage and all bills on a 1/4 of our former income. As much as I'd like to live further out in the county in a bigger house on more land, I'm not willing to increase our living costs by $1000/monthly for the properties available.

Don't get me wrong, it's entirely fucked that in areas, especially the east coast along the 95 corridor, millennials have no prayer of affording the same kind of homes their parents could afford on 1 income. It is fucked, but millenials need to put their parents' expectations in the corner when it comes to home buying. No, your grandbabies don't need a 4bd/3bth home with a $420k price-tag when it means mommy and daddy both have to work full-time to afford it and the next recession could land you in hot water.

>>27381136
>Except that you still havr to livr somewhere. So where are you getting the money from this house?
You're nice for trying, but the copers never understand this and are conditioned to believe that paying $1700 for a 800sqft apartment with 4ft of granite and stainless steel appliances is the wiser decision because it looks better.

>>27381190
I'm assuming you're in business for longer than a year. Typical of the modern american male to assume that he will have to declare bankruptcy within a year of starting a business.

As for which bank - an SBA 504 loan. Interest rate is somewhere around 2% last time I checked (likely lower now), you need 10% down, so $100k. Put up part of a $250k building you have equity in from another venture and away you go. Of course I started my business in this current building for $15k down ...

The US gov is designed for people to be able to go into virtually riskless debt. You can accept that and take advantage of it or die poor

>>27381221
YOU lose nothing. The LLC you set up to get the loan on the building is bankrupt. The government that gave you the SBA 504 loan has a loss. You took money out of the business while you were operating it and you keep that; the business is gone. And now you start over again.

This is the circle of life

>>27381732
>but for a "starter home" in a metro area with walkable everything, basement to roof in great condition, it does exactly what we need.
bruh a shitty townhouse in any hot housing market is like 750k minimum now

>>27362986
Literally the NYC trust fund baby hipster apartment.

>>27382113
>>27381784
>just go bankrupt broooooooo
Pajeet hands typed this

>>27382113
>what is piercing the veil
You'll find out real quick if you try to declare bankruptcy for an LLC lmao

>>27380897
>Start an LLC, take a $1M loan to get a movie theater.
it's not that simple. no bank on earth is going to give a small business with no collateral a $1 million unsecured loan. but yes, you are correct in general. debt leverage is the way businesses scale.

>>27382442
Not going to happen when I pay myself less than my employees. If you get a $1M SBA loan and start yourself off with a $500k salary, clearly just draining the money off the company so it can't survive - yeah you're going to be paying that back and selling some crap you bought yourself

>>27382113
So you’re using business loopholes to make money while defaulting on loans. How is this good or smart? The only reason you can do it is because of retarded government bureaucracy that at a mass scale will eventually lead to a massive depression. Don’t act like this is a smart thing to do because it’s pants on heads retarded

>>27380489
I struggle with that man. Job is very steady but some days I can't stop thinking about leaving this place. I have such a uniquely great renting situation (no shared walls, cheaper than market average, no utilities, cool landlords with no lease) that I have a hard time ditching it unless there's a truly great opportunity. With housing prices in the mania and frenzy that they are, sitting on the sidelines feels more appropriate. Of course if the market just keeps running away from me then I fuck myself.

So let's see, I can either

A. With a Mortgage: Buy a house and build equity that is not liquid, which is also eaten away over time due to repairs and property taxes. Additionally I also take on the risk of having my house not appreciate over time enough to beat inflation that is not tracked via CPI because CPI is a poor measure of actual inflation (thanks to things like houses). Oh also any of the gains I make by owning said home are also negated because of a mortgage because mortgages tank my net worth.

B. Buy a House in all Cash - Which mitigates some of the risks above.

C. Rent and Invest in the stock market, which also builds equity, has a lower downside because you have 1000's of wageslaves across the world working for you for free and paying you via proxy ownership. And have equity that is close to immediately accessible with more better liquidity. Also the cash is more useful now because I can access it quicker rather than wait for me to build equity in my house and use that "equity" that has reduced purchasing power because everything is increasingly more expensive (5-10%) YoY (See Chapwood index - which is down right now for some reason). Also with my stock gains I can buy land which is a better store of value

This is a tough choice

alot of you dont seem to understand how great it is owning your own piece of land. also depending on state rules if you make 200k and lived in it for 2 years the cash is not taxed. i hope we all make it and hav ecomfy houses

>>27353451
Any place w 10k property tax is going to have double that or more in rent

>>27353451
>rent for like 8 years
>almost rent a place with a friend but got laid off and in a way think I dodged a bullet
>couch surfed with a different friend while I got new work
>stayed there longer than intended because one of the jobs ended up being shit and because friend needed me when tragedy hit him
>finally built up to buying my own place
>its just a condo but it's something
>then tragedy hits me
>only at my place like once every other week for a twelve-hour period while I'm a hundred miles away otherwise taking care of family
What do?

>>27382947
I wanted to buy a vacant lot or a small farm for cheap debt I could use for margin on stonks but basically banks are incredibly jewish and you can only get good rates on housing

>>27372060
It's on Michigan. And not a bar exactly but I'd get all the noise from the bars nearby.
>>27381098
Yeah. But at the time It was just $600 a month, and I had no roomates. Now it's nearly five times that.
I've since come to terms with it not being the apartment itself or it's location, it was genuinely being happy at the time.

>tfw 36 year old with a STEM degree making $40k/yr reading this thread

>>27382686
I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. Or good or smart. I wish it wasn't this way. But there is almost no way to compete in an environment where it's set up this way. You're never going to actually accumulate wealth any other way (except by big luck), because the gov is designed like this.

If it weren't, and neither you nor your neighbor have access to these financial tools, then you both can gain wealth without debt leverage. But when your neighbor is leveraged 10x on SBA loans and you are still collecting 5% on your $50k, you're going to be left behind.

You gotta be pragmatic about this stuff. Corporations are designed so people take risk and start businesses. The SBA lets any joe have 10x leverage on a business. It sucks that the public bails this stuff out all the time - but until there's a huge change in the government, you don't have any other option

>>27364634
Yeah okay bud

>>27383358
Same dude same. We lost try again next life.

>>27383358
What do you do

>>27383358
shit man you could probably make twice that just freelancing. i freelanced for four years and was making $90k/year by the end of it until a client hired me. this was years ago, and freelancing rates have gone up, not down

>>27383745
Currently doing copywriting from home.

>>27383431
You could contribute to society and build wealth by saving over years like you’re supposed to. Instead you’re being a literal leech and contributing to our ultimate downfall

>>27383857
I don't think I have any skills people would me for as a freelancer

>>27373042
> selling it with zero equity
> treating a house like short-term investments
It’s like you want people to call you retarded.

>>27382947
D. Pay down mortgage at same cost as paying rent while living nicer while also investing like in alternative C

>>27384090
>>27383958
Nigger, that's literally what I was doing. Writing, editing, document design.
Businesses want content because they know SEO is important, but they don't want to shell out $70k/year for someone to shit out three blog posts per week. So instead they'll pay some schmuck $100 per post. Find three of those and you are already up to $46k/year.

>>27374756
>>27376169
> how distorted some housing markets are
Maybe you shouldn’t live in such a crappy housing market? Or start actively looking for employment elsewhere? Or find a company that allows 100% remote work (considering COVID made most offices move to remote, it’s much easier now). For the vast majority of cities, what the other anon said is true. For your specific soiboi lifestyle in a big city with Canadian retardism applied to every form of municipal zoning and tax structure, sure, you’re fucked no matter what. For the US, there are plenty of examples of affordable housing near major industrial sectors. Keep your anecdotal evidence to yourself. Buying a house is how the vast majority of commoners invest their money in an appreciating asset that also happens to provide them a roof over their house. Bonus points for enough space to start a family, entertain guests, or rent out rooms to tenants (free mortgage reductions).

>>27353451
>Living in an apartment
>Paying the landlord's mortgage and some profit
>Doesn't realize why he's poor
Go figure