/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>271675
So how much money has everyone lost/made

inb4 hurr durr bubble popped

BTC is gonna die. It's only a matter of time.

>>271698
And what brings you to the conclusion that digital currency will die in the modern age?

>>271701

I didn't say digital currency would die. I said that BTC would die.

>>271703

>>271703
Alright why would the first digital currency die?

There are no apparent innovations on the way and it's nothing BTC can't implement if it's truly needed

Bitcoin fell even below the mt. goy crash. Today's the lowest we've seen since last year.

But of course, it'll totally recover. Rest assured. Don't panic, $10000/coin next month!

>>271711
>>271723


What's so strange about saying that BTC will most likely die, but Crypto is here to stay?

Bitcoin doesn't allow banks or governments any control, they sure as fuck aren't going to adopt and endorse it.
They are most likely going to roll out their own version at some point. A crypto that's completely under their surveillance and control.

>>271683

About 10k
Also holy fucking shit the delusion in the trollbox.
People are so god damn deluded it's mind boggling. When we were at 650$ during that Gox sticky thread people were like "oh it's fine, it's going back up you retards, don't sell now. we're fiine"

Now that we're 250$ lower, they are saying the same things "Just hold, we have had so much good news since China that there's no way that it's going to drop below 400$!"

It just broke it. Same thing continues. "Oh we're fine just hold!" "See it's going back up already idiots! Lol stupid bears, we're going back up!"

I just don't understand this, how god damn deluded can you be not to realize that you're being raped in the mouth full force 24/7

"oh it's fine!" yeah sure. See you at sub 250$.

>>271723
A lot of people believe it will reach 10k per coin in 2015. The winklefag twinsies believe BTC has the potential for a 400 billion marketcap (35k per coin)

>>271721

It can't implement regulation. A truly successful digital currency will need to be regulated to adjust to economic conditions. Until then it's just a speculative, volatile commodity.

>>271728
>>271729
So you guys want a fully monitored/regulated currency?

So like, the dollar (which is mostly digital anyway) ?

>>271732

Yes.

>>271729
>>271728
Also, what pisses me off is that you see BTC in a black/white light. BTC doesn't have to be a currency, it can be an instant payment processor.

With services like coinbase/coinpayments BTC can be converted to local currency on the spot (see: overstock.com)

Even with BTC dominating the space of internet payments there's potential for even higher highs.

>>271733
Do you not enjoy the benefits of
>immediate transfer
>sending money across the world
>do what you want with your money
>no middlemen (no fees)

>>271735
>BTC doesn't have to be a currency
No, but it'll just be replaced if and when a currency is rolled out.

>>271737
All can be accomplished with a regulated system without having to deal with volatility. A true currency would decrease fees further without having to worry about deflation (could never tie prices to BTC).

>>271732

I can buy anything in the world with dollars. Every bank on the planet will take them. I know that tomorrow, my dollar will still buy me the same amount of stuff. I know that one year from now, it will buy me 99% of the stuff I can buy today, give or take one or two percent. I don't have to deal with tax records for every transaction, and it comes with the highest form of anonymity- cold hard cash- built-in.

None of those things are true for bitcoin. Until they are, which we now know will be never, it is worthless.

>>271732

It's not a matter of what we want, the question was if BTC will be the one to make it.
The way I see it, it sure as fuck isn't going to make it, no way.

It's a just a dream to think that it's going to reach acceptance on a government level if they aren't in control. They won't allow it.

>>271735

So why would BTC be the payment processor to make it?

Why not Ripple which is pretty much designed to be just a payment processor,

I see that as a way more viable crypto to succeed than BTC, if the goal is just to be a payment processor.

>Higher highs

Yeah it's just a fucking get rich scheme and that's the only reason why people give 2 shits about it.

>>271752
Really? Cause government acceptance (in the states) continues to grow.

>>271752
First off,
>ripple
kek

You're also forgetting the importance of being the currency with the strongest foundation. There are too many people vested in BTC to just drop everything.

>>271748

It's also worth pointing out that sending dollars is cheap. Fedwire transfers are never more than a dollar regardless of the amount sent, and can be as cheap as three cents, or under 0.00003% transaction costs.

>>271757

The government sees BTC as a commodity and taxes it as such. That's a problem for a currency.

>>271761
Yeah but the US only gives a shit if you're converting to USD or buying something with the BTC. Even then, how are they going to track shit?

>>271762
>only gives a shit if you're converting or buying
...which are BTCs only actual uses.

>how are they going to track shit
The same way they track people who deal in cash and gold/silver. It's also unreasonable to think average joe is willing to be a criminal to use BTC, so having to keep track of transactions would be a hassle.

>>271752
I see your point of BTC not being the official currency, fuck no it's not going to be.

However, services and businesses will continue to spring up around BTC because there's money to be made.

>>271762
What the hell is bitcoin even useful for if you're neither buying things nor converting them to cash with which to buy things.

>>271768
If the taxation becomes an actual issue, exchanges and businesses will rise to the challenge

Also, tracking physical items is a far cry from a digital currency that can be "anonymized" through mixing

>>271771
>>271768
All I'm saying is you don't have to constantly report your earnings to the IRS if you're just holding. Also, like I've said actually tracking BTC when you buy something is not easy.

>>271772
>exchanges and businesses will rise to the challenge
Sure they will.

>far cry from a digital currency
Not really. The end result is the same. If your standard of living is out of sync with the income you're reporting, they'll get you. It doesn't matter how anonymous the payments are.

>>271778
> If your standard of living is out of sync with the income you're reporting, they'll get you

You're right and unless you're doing blatantly illegal shit with BTC, you're fine.

>>271733
>>271728
Good goyim.

>>271757

Yes laws are being made, but is it just government acceptance towards Bitcoin or Crypto in general?
I can see laws being made to accept Crypto in general, but that doesn't mean that they are going to greenlight Bitcoin itself.
They might at some point say something like.
>"Ok this shit isn't consumer friendly, people are getting fucked over left and right, and we have no control over this. Ban it, we have alternatives. Alternatives that are under our control, which offer consumer protection."


>>271760

>There are too many people vested in BTC to just drop everything.

It might just seem that way to people who are vested in BTC

http://bitscan.com/bitnews/item/how-many-people-really-own-bitcoins-and-why-does-it-matter

>around 1.2 million addresses that have a meaningful quantity of bitcoins in – and the vast majority of these, almost one million, hold less than a full bitcoin. The total of this million-or-so accounts is just 87,000 btc.

That's 1.2 million people globally invested, and 1 million of those people have less than 1 BTC. That's absolutely nothing.

>>271777
>if you're just holding
What's the point of using BTC if you're just holding? Isn't the end goal for it to be an everyday payment system?

>tracking when you buy something is not easy
Still illegal to do something like that. The average person won't go along with it.

>>271781
Not reporting gains is blatantly illegal. If you're buying groceries they won't care, but if you start trying to buy luxury items you're S.O.L.

>>271786
How are they supposed to determine how you gained your BTC?

"Yeah I mined them back in 2010"
"I was part of an early giveaway"
"I bought them when they were 14 cents"

>>271785
Regardless it's a several billion dollar market with (now) big names like overstock accepting it.

>>271788

They'll ask you for the records that you're supposed to keep. If you don't have said records, enjoy your fine / jail time.

>>271791
>they'll ask you for your records from previous years when taxing btc wasn't a thing

Please, and we both know you can easily fake those records and they can't prove shit in a court of law.

>>271790
>overstock accepting it

Companies like overstock don't care about BTC. It's free publicity for them and they just convert BTC back to USD immediately. You wouldn't see them fight to keep it around.

>>271794
Doesn't matter, remember my point about BTC also being a superior payment processor?

By the way, overstock holds 10% in BTC.

>>271793
>when taxing BTC wasn't a thing

Taxing BTC has ALWAYS been a thing, it was just never official. You've always been required to keep records, you just didn't know it.

>can't prove shit in a court of law
Good luck with that.

>>271795

The CEO holds BTC. That doesn't mean the company itself will go along with defending BTC.

>>271799
You're very naive.

>>271797
>You've always been required to keep records, you just didn't know it.

Right, right of course.

>Good luck with that.
Anonymity

>>271802
So you think they're gonna give you shit for not recording your autismcoins back in 2010 when no one knew what the fuck it was?

It doesn't matter if they "defend" BTC. The more big people involved in BTC the better.


Explain to me how they can prove I didn't mine BTC with my CPU back in the early days, please.

>>271795

Overstock hasn't based their entire business model on BTC, it's just a gimmick to make some extra money.
Like a gigantic free commercial. This is the case with every single real store accepting BTC.

If BTC fails it doesn't matter to them in the least. They don't give a shit about Btc or the ideology behind it.

>>271805
>you think they're gonna give you shit for not recording
If it gets to the point where you're in court they will.

>explain how they can prove I didn't mine BTC back in the early days
They'd prefer you say that. Higher gains that you have to pay taxes on.

>>271810
Oh they will. I wonder how that will go.

>yeah no one knew what BTC was, if it would be taxed, or how it would be taxed but you gotta write it all down ;^)


>They'd prefer you say that. Higher gains that you have to pay taxes on.

Awesome, I just got away with illegal activity in this situation then.

>>271747
Once there is a functioning and efficient derivatives market, shouldering the volatility risk can be priced into bitcoin services. This sort of financial infrastructure takes time to build. There will be several "crashes" on the way. Bitcoin as an investment is a different animal: it is obviously quite binary, but the currency itself is like buying a diversified sector of bitcoin startups: that is bitcoin as an investment gives a venture-capital like risk profile(high upside, high risk) priced where anyone can afford some.

>>271675

fucking china everyday since december enugh already

>>271815
>if it would be taxed
Everyone knew that BTC would be taxed. Literally anything that makes you money is taxed unless explicitly stated otherwise.

>I just got away with illegal activity
Not if you didn't pay your taxes on those gains you didn't.

>>271819
Oh right so since it was common knowledge they'll get me in court, where official/objective information is everything.

>>271819
Who cares if I pay the taxes? The worry comes from people who make BTC illegitimately, that was my argument.

>>271818
Fucking chinks

I don't care if Overstock doesn't care about Bitcoin's future, they accept it and that's what matters.

And you faggot that wants everything to be regulated is why jews rule the world.

>>271825
I don't give a fuck about jews stormfag, I just want to get mine.

>>271828
>i want everything to be regulated
>i like middlemen
>i like being monitored

eat shit niggger

>>271818

Did you seriously expect Bitcoin to stay anywhere near 1000$ for prolonged periods?
The mega fluctuations are keeping the general public and new money from entering the game, so the market is just old money keeping the price flopping around slowly being milked to death.

It was just a hyyypeee train of great magnitude. Hope you got out early enough.

>>271825

During the Gox sticky there was some good discussion about problems with consumer protection. There is none.
If this shit isn't regulated, people are going to end up getting screwed over in so many ways it's not even funny.

>>271831
Startups everyday are figuring out how to further protect people. I mean shit this just became a thing: https://www.bitgo.com/

>It's just a hypeeee train
Besides being a decent payment processor, so far BTC has been a speculative commodity. If you look at charts over time this shit bubbles over and over again. Investors are waiting for the next bubble and long term holders are waiting for more businesses to accept BTC (it's been happening).

>>271833
Yes up to 3k

Can you claim losses on bitcoin as deductions on taxes?

>>271833
Sure. Just enjoy your yearly audits for the rest of your life. Probably no fly list too.

>>271797
Why wouldn't the IRS just give it a cost basis of zero?

Take an infinite amount of fiat money in the world, and divide by 12mil.

That's how much one bitcoin is worth in the long term. Thanks for panic selling. The start of the 4th great bubble hit today and we are riding this shit up to $2500 by year end.

>>271841
>tfw price just went up by 1.50$ on coinbase

This is nerve wrecking. I put 20$ into bitcoin and I was losing so much money every day

>>271841
I'll buy back when it starts going up, probably on 15th when nothing happens. Again.

>not buying 750 dollar worth of doge minutes before the party was over
You don't know true suffering.

>>271843
>tfw price just went up by 1.50$ on coinbase
Yeah, that matters much after losing >$40 in 24h.

And after a period of continous losses since early january.

thoughts on my quick analysis ?

>pic related

>>271841
Calm down buddy

The true long term hold is for 10-35k a coin which is very far off

>>271844

I think that people are giving these news and dates waay too much "power"
The price has been tanking ever since ath even when the news have been good.


My reasoning is that no new money is entering the market, at least not at the pace it should.
It was something like, every day 10 million $ should enter the market for the price to stay stable.
Judging by the amount of Bitcoin addresses in that study, the amount of people who own these coins is extremely small. Those few people aren't able to sustain these prices.

Also it pretty much supports the thought that average Joe doesn't want to have a damn thing to do with Bitcoin. It has lost it's credibility, or at least it has become too scary for the average person to enter the market.
Which seems to be the reaction of pretty much every single person I've talked with.
First Bitcoin was an interesting concept, now it's just a pyramid scheme or something equally shady and unstable, that's just going to take your money.

See for the number of addresses that have any meaningful amount of coins in them.

>>271785

>>271848
There are way too many buy orders around the 390-400 mark. It's already back up to 400.

>>271848
There's some "noise", of course. It is unavoidable.

>>271881

> It's already back up to 400.

Yeeaah this is the reason why people keep losing money during every single super obvious bulltrap.
>Lol you stupid bears, it's already going back to the muun!

That's just shortsighted as hell. Give it a bit more time than few hours.

>>271675
What will happen when all the major forex brokers start offering BTC trading? Will the market become more efficient or even more unstable?

>>271891
Gains, but that's not happening terribly soon.

>>271890
True but the buy walls in this area are no joke. We'll see.

>>271904
Yeah the bubble did pop. Look at BTC charts, bubbles come and go. Now we wait for the next bubble.

>>271689
hurr durr bubble popped

>>271727
lol retard

>>271899

It's enough for Chinatown to take a single dump and those walls are either going to instantly disappear or they are going to get destroyed in seconds.
I wouldn't put too much faith in them.

Btw if you don't mind me asking, how much money or % profit have you made from Bitcoins?

I'm someone with a very cautious and pessimistic nature when it comes to things like this, and so far that attitude has served me pretty damn well.
Roughly +2000% myself. Just wondering how someone with seemingly completely opposite way of thinking is doing in a market like this.

>>271911
I don't play the market. I've recently made 30+ bitcoin. Won't tell you how.

>>271752
>Why not Ripple which is pretty much designed to be just a payment processor,

This

>>271915
http://ripplescam.org/

>>271825
Overstock doesn't really accept BTC. They never see any of it. They use an intermediary like BitPay which sells the BTC then transfers it into dollars. They accept dollars.

>>271923
That doesn't matter you fucking idiot.

More ways to spend = More value

>>271848

In a similar vein, I did a basic CVaR type model in Excel using Coindesk data:

>daily standard deviation is 7.3%

>BTC down about 10.5%

>roughly 4.5% chance of such a loss happening

>average loss given loss exceeding 10.5% is 18.7% using BTC empirical distribution.

>current daily price target is $350

Seem reasonable?

>>271920

>made 30+ bitcoin.

As long as you end up making money from this market, all is good.
That's the goal for all of us here.


> the few “validators” are in total control over the network and creates “consensus” (of 5 servers, run by OpenCoin Inc and OpenCoin Inc partners).
> it is not possible to “dethrone” OpenCoin Inc

This right here is pretty much the main reason why Ripple would be the one to succeed over Bitcoin.

One word: Control. Ripple has it. Bitcoin doesn't.
This is what governments and banks want.

Might not be a bad idea to throw some money @ Ripple.
Could get pretty big in the future.

>>271920
Who cares if it is pre-mined? lmao. Not corporations obviously since they have invested millions into it. Not the Fed since they are already pursuing avenues to adopt it. The only people that care about it being pre-mined is a few neckbeards

>>271938
>>271931
Good luck beating BTC

>>271930
It does. Wait for part 2

>>271928
lol someones mad. it does matter when people don't actually spend Bitcoin. Why would they if like all the Bitcoin shills say "the value is going to go up to 35k a coin!". If the value is going up so much spending it would be stupid

>>271942
there we go

>>271939
Doge has fallen that far?

>>271943
Because BTC is also a great payment processor. That gives it value

>>271951
Doge is dead

>>271955
Don't say mean things, DOGE will be worth ten times it's January peak one day.

I always wonder why the most uneducated have the strongest opinion.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560484.0

I suspect many people calling for the death of bitcoin are incapable of acquiring bitcoin and feel left out of the party. Instead of educating themselves they would rather bring the party down.

The majority of this thread is "muh gubermint" and "jews" with no actual insight to the technology or the economics of such a phenomenon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0luLPVHkO4

>>271952
Not with the current blockchains. Way too slow. Ripple has a leg up on that since it immediately shows up on the other end after a transaction. With that being said I hope the Blockchain 2.0 that they are working on will be faster. If BTC can evolve quickly (within the next half a year) enough it may not entirely die.

>>271957
yeah yeah

>>271956
Man, bitcoin is not going to survive in the long run. It's already behind technology-wise. Something like Ripple or Ethereum is going to be the future of virtual currency.

>>271962
Bitcoin had many bubbles so far. Doge only had this one.

>>271939

Of course you are going to side with Bitcoin, because you own them.
But for 5 minutes try to put your feelings aside and think about this from a realistic point of view.

If we have 2 options, a payment system masquerading as a crypto that you can control and track, and a crypto that's all over the place that you can track to some extent, but can't control.

Of course the governments and corporations are going to endorse the one they can control, this is common sense. Hell anyone would prefer something under their control over the complete opposite.
Actually like that guy already said, corporations have already sided with Ripple.
Even Google has given them money.

And yeah, Doge made it to no4 or was it 3. That picture doesn't mean jack shit.

Also this premine stuff doesn't matter in the least to the average consumer.

>>271958
As a guy who accepts BTC payment, you're wrong. Yes it takes a little while for confirmations to pop up but the money shows up INSTANTLY.

>>271963
Ripple is worthless trash.

>>271966
My feelings are aside. What I see is potential and I don't think anything is in place from competition to dethrone BTC.

>>271968
You're right. I didn't mean the money doesn't show up instantly. I meant you can't use it instantly after you get it. My mistake.

>>271976
Bo hoo you have to wait 15 minutes

currently apart from for a tiny minority of serious users, BTC is more of a hobby for most people than anything else.

thats why the government isnt really giving a shit. the global market cap is under 10 billion. it's literally peanuts.

I want satoshi nakamoto to write a follow up paper. The philosophy behind bitcoin needs further explanation. If there was a true spokesman or a foundation behind it that isn't the shitty "bitcoin foundation" that could get it's act together and issue a few press statements on the regular basis to news organisations it would do a lot to combat the constant stream of negativity coming from the mainstream press.

Apart from that there is a heavy shilling campaign against bitcoin.

>>271978
15 minutes isn't instant

the speculators getting blown the fuck out is good for bitcoin

>>271981
Money is yours instantly

>>271963
>Ethereum
Hasn't this been proven as scam,

>>271986
Fuck bitcoin. I want this bubble to crash hard.

>>271963
Ripple is the worst.
Centralized and controlled. People who claim ripple is going to be the next crypto currency haven't a clue as to why bitcoin gained popularity over the dollar in the first place. The Silk Road anyone?

Companies are accepting bitcoin now because there is an emerging demographic of people who want to pay on the internet pseudo-anonymously. Once you couple this to the distributed nature of the ledger and open source protocol you have a winning combo.

Ripple on the other hand has none of these qualities. It is not even close to anonymous so your dragon dildo order is going to be cemented in stone for all eternity. You can have your funds frozen and the supply is controlled by an organization. This pre-mined ripple coin isn't going anywhere out if the gate.

Ethereum AFAIK is protocol on top of bitcoin server and acts as a multi sig escrow service. An example would be a company vault which requires 3 people's password in order for purchases to be made as a simple case. I highly doubt that ethereum will be rolling out a new coin.

These are a small example of why ripple is shit and bitcoin will win.

>>271998
Missed le train?

>>272003
Yes.

>>271999
>Centralized and controlled.
Yes, and that's why average joe is going to use it instead of descentralized and highly unstable Bitcoin. The fact that Ripple is pre-mined also makes it environmentally friendly, and thus politically correct.

Also, everything you said about Ethereum is either incorrect. Please inform yourself.

>>271979
>Apart from that there is a heavy shilling campaign against bitcoin
I know it seems like this. I don't think this to be the case though. I think people for the most part especially on all the forums are getting fed up at all the BTC fanatics constantly spamming BTC buzzwords all day long and remarking how it is going to make everyone millionaires while meanwhile in the background Bitcoin continues its nosedive. The argument is that people didn't take BTC seriously in the beginning and missed the boat. This may be the case but now BTC has gained worldwide attention the ship has already sailed. Everyone that wanted to use it for the most part would be already using it.

Nobody argues that BTC isn't a step in the right direction. Payment processors like Paypal and Western Union needed the kick in the ass because they have gone unchecked for a while now with no competition. Cryptos will be around whether people like it or not and now that the IRS has acknowledged them. The question really is how will they be utilized? Will they be a speculative commodity like gold? Will people be using it as a payment processor and will any rivals that are faster than BTC dominate the space? Will it ever be a real currency? The real answer to the last one is that if the Fed doesn't get behind it, it will never be a real currency. "Evil" or not, you need a central authority to give currency its power and to reduce volatility.

>>271999
>pay on the internet pseudo-anonymously
If this is the only reason that people should use BTC it is a weak argument. People can already use VCCs

>>271999


First Bitcoin gained popularity because of the junkies using it anonymously, later everyone else jumped in because it was seen as a get rich quick scheme.

Most people don't care about the amount of coins they have, the goal for most of us is to make more $ not more coins. Or maybe some of us are trying to make more coins, in hopes of making more Fiat in the end, but very few people count their profits in Bitcoins rather than USD or EUR.

Companies are accepting Bitcoins because it's free publicity for them, any other ideas are just romanticized images of the situation.
No, overstock doesn't give a damn about you wanting to buy that blanket anonymously. They accepted Bitcoin because it made them some extra money along with tons of publicity. Nothing more to it.

Also fundamentals don't mean a damn thing to the average person if banks and corporations are endorsing Ripple.

>>272028
Once again, no one gives a shit.

More adoption = More attention = More value

>>272019
https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/%5BEnglish%5D-White-Paper#ethereum

>>272025

That wasn't the only reason aforementioned. That was the main contributing factor which allowed bitcoin to gain traction in the first place. (Silk Road). Ripple has no redeemable features to set itself apart from the digitized USD. This is the point I was making.

>>271831

>starts posting jew pictures
>unveils himself for /pol/tard
>loses all credibility

>>272037
>Ripple has no redeemable features to set itself apart from the digitized USD
Besides the Ripple protocol being a payment processor and a currency exchange I would agree with you. XRP in itself is just like any other crypto. I think the real reason the Fed is even interested is because they know the dollar is losing traction as the worlds reserve currency. They are looking for other options.

Bitcoin: Widespread adoption, pioneerism, anonymity.
Ripple: Private institutions support, state of the art technology, environment-friendly.
Ethereum: Some next level shit that could end all other payment processors and revolutionize the world IF it comes to have no security flaws.

>>272031

>Once again, no one gives a shit.

No one gives a shit about what? What are you referring to?
No one gives a shit about Ripple? I need a bit more info here.

Well so far we've had more adoption every day but the price has done nothing but tanked, so that's kind of a shitty argument.

And like I said before, most average people don't want to have anything to do with Bitcoin anymore, so that argument fails again. They were interested before, but now see Bitcoin as a shady scam.

More attention or adoption doesn't automatically mean more value.
The attention has been negative as fuck, and you're going to need a continuous stream of good news, along with steady stable market to fix this.
Which in all seriousness don't see happening any time soon.

>>272045
>environment-friendly

Compared to what. bitcoin, USD, people watching TV?

>>272053
No one gives a shit whether or not overstock holds all its profits in BTC, faggot.

>>272056
All the mineable cryptos

>>272059
Who actually cares? Besides the shills and PR guys.

>>272056
I think what he means is that mining rigs use up resources and electricity. Ripple is pre-mined so no need for expensive mining rigs

>>272061
Hahaha, it's like you are talking to me from the 90's, through a time machine

>>272062
Pre-Mined
>they allocate the coins as they see fit.

Environmentally Friendly!

Mining rigs aren't as bad as one tends to think. Fracking anyone?

>>272068
"Pre-Mined
>they allocate the coins as they see fit. "

This 100%

Fucking shills

>>272058


I basically said that "A company doesn't give a fuck about Bitcoin or it's ideology, they are only in this for the money and publicity"

I don't think that I even remotely implied that they are keeping their profits in BTC.
How the fuck did you even arrive to that conclusion?

Also, sell those +30 BTC of yours, you're just going to end up even more anal upset over the next few days when the price continues it's downtrend.

>>272068
>>272070
So far this has been done through giveaways and to WCG to support cancer research. Also, it is about as arbitrary as someone buying a mining rig and mining them.

>>272081
Proof? What is a cancer researcher supposed to do with XRP?

>>272045
>Ethereum
Haven't seen nothing but mental masturbation.

>>272099
how can you make any money out of that shit right now anyway?

>>272086
Research it. Ripples are cancer.

>>272107
So said the DOGE enthusiast. Ebin!!!1 xDD

>>272108
DOGE are nice.

>>272071
Why is that an issue? I'll say it again for you.

More adoption = More attention = More value

>>272071
he'll be way more upset if he sells and the price gets to $10k in 6 months

>>272086
They trade it for peoples processing power to map cancer markers

>>272071
I didn't invest money to get 30 BTC

I made 30 BTC

Regardless I make profit

Goy

>>272116


Let's say we have 1000 people and 1 store out of 40 that accepts Bitcoins. There are like 50 guys using BTC.

Then we constantly keep telling all of them that they will most likely lose all of their money that they invest in Bitcoins and we keep showing them examples of this actually happening.
Then we're going to add 3 more stores that accept BTC.

That doesn't mean that the price is going to go up.

The 50 guys are still going to be using Bitcoins but no one else is throwing money at them.
They are going to keep on buying stuff and stores immediately covert the BTC to Fiat driving the price down. And due to the miners the market needs certain amount of new money pouring in constantly to keep the price from tanking even faster. Price is just flopping around with old money, while the market slowly gets milked to nothing.

This is basically what's happening at the moment.
Gaining more attention is no guarantee of the price going up.

>>272145

Well that's a good thing, I don't resent you in any way for making that money, believe it or not.
At least you're not one of those retards that "invested" around +1k$ and are still waiting for that moon.
Well that's if you are actually smart enough to sell those coins before the price is something crazy like 50% of what it's now.

But, lol I must have really struck a nerve somewhere along the road.
Why are all super pro Btc people so damn emotional?
Makes me doubt your profits to be honest.
I've made money and I'm more than happy with 5 figures that came out of this.
Absolutely no need to get defensive over that.

>>272151
Cause I was getting irritated by the others in the thread. You don't have to believe my profits (no way to prove it)

I just think the technology has enough potential reach and surpass the 1k peak.

>>271721
>Alright why would the first digital currency die?

There have been several others before. Linden dollars, eGold, QQcoin, Liberty Bucks etc. The problem is they were all centralized, like napster, while bitcoin is decentralized, like bittorrent. It's not too hard to see where bitcoin is headed, but be careful with your words in the meantime.

>>272164
Strong point. My bad.

Could I say the first cryptographic/decentralized digital currency?

>>272160
>I just think the technology has enough potential reach and surpass the 1k peak
It has. It might again too. I think what drives new technology is innovation. BTC needs to be a little more pliable if they want more adoption. If they keep making improvements to the blockchain and find some way to make validation faster they should be able to stay afloat. Also, they may want to think about giving up anonymity. Anonymous transactions are nice but they don't work well in the real world. Governments and banks are going to want to be able to trace money to a source or you open up too many avenues for fraud and tax-evasion.

>>272139
Protein folding, metabolome, bio markers, seti and more recently chemical reactions would be a fantastic way to use computing power. Curecoin ripple is not but nonetheless I like the idea of monetizing these networks to produce scientific data.

>>272172
I agree. The processing power used to mine 99% of all cryptos right now goes to solving algorithms that serve no real world purpose. Seems like a real waste of energy when it could be used for something meaningful.

>>272169
Centralizing BTC and altering the block times will kill it

>>272179
I didn't say the electricity used at the moment was a waste in fact it's exactly what we need to secure and facilitate transactions on a decentralized global ledger. I was pointing out that in the future CureCoins seem more viable.

Today the electricity used on video games or entertainment by and large is a waste by those arguments.

The environmental impact of the bitcoin network is by and large a red herring tactic to discredit the protocol. If you think mining is a waste of electricity you should check out vanitygen.

>>272181
I am not even talking about full centralization. You would only want full centralization if you wanted BTC to be a real currency. What I am thinking is just increased centralization which would lead to faster transactions. There are already people working on Blockchain 2.0 using a sidechain. This way they can experiment with development without impacting the main codebase. If they can figure out how to improve blockchain validation I'm not sure how that wouldn't be a good thing all around.

>>272200
Because no one gives a shit about being able to spend the money they earned 1 sec after received

>>272202
lol wat

>>272204
Do you? Cause you're in the minority.

Take it from a guy who actually makes money

>>272020
>"Evil" or not, you need a central authority to give currency its power and to reduce volatility.

Isn't it amazing how ancient tribes that used rare objects as a currency had no bank?

>>272190
If the excess computing power used by video games or entertainment could be used to facilitate more scientific research and it did not then I would venture to say that was a waste of electricity too. My point wasn't that the electricity expenditure towards mining was a waste but that if you were going to use the electricity towards something anyways, why not it be something like mapping cancer markers rather than solving some complex algorithm that has no other use than blockchain validation

>>272169
What are you fucking on about? The whole point of ~BTC is that we wont need governments and banks anymore.

Don't worry
the transition is painless
bend over
and prepare your anus

>>272209
no, just laughing at your exaggeration

>>272216
;^)

>>272214
Because developing that technology isn't easy faggot

>>272215
>we wont need governments and banks anymore
lol. very naive

>>272224
Who said anything about it being easy? And the technology is already there

>>272166
Yes, that is more accurate.

>>272179
>solving algorithms that serve no real world purpose

Hashing power secures the network. Seems worthwhile.

>>272228
No it's not. The mining power serves a purpose. Incorporating block times, difficulty, and network security into folding@home for example is not going to happen.

>>272243
The algorithms themselves. It would be like asking someone to move rocks from one pile to another to keep them busy. If you are going to keep them busy anyways why not use those rocks to build a wall?

>>271675
China is being forced to sell, it will start recovering after the 15th (their cut off date).

>>271701
>currency
>bitcoin
>used for anything other than speculation

>>271732
> so you guys want
> basing your finances on what you want to happen rather than what you think will happen

>>272276
>>272267
>greentext

>>272259
No, they're not. That was fake.

What is happening is merely what has happened for three fucking months straight now. People are bailing from a dead horse.

>>272295
They fooled Bloomberg and they haven't removed the news yet?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-10/china-s-bitcoin-exchanges-say-banks-will-close-their-accounts.html

Post source on it being fake and I might take you for more than someone hoping it dies.

>>272276
I think this is a lot of what it comes down to. BTC users for the most part are fairly optimistic and idealistic people. Most want to escape control of the Fed, Banks, Government, Taxes, etc. They also want to be fully anonymous in an age where anonymity breeds opportunity for crime and fraud with no criminal backlash. Credit cards and debit cards are not perfect but at least they provide some consumer protection. Even Paypal has reversals if the seller of goods tries to rip you off, and they keep track of where the money goes and to whom. That is why Western Union is the prime tool for scammers because once the money is sent to another country, a lot of times it's gone. Because BTC doesn't allow for chargebacks and is fully anonymous if someone sells you bad merchandise there is no recourse. This is why it will never compete with Paypal as a payment processor for goods or services unless it evolves. Also if someone had a keylogger on your computer and compromised your password they could clean your BTC wallet out and there is nothing you can do. Cold storage is fine while the BTC remains on a flashdrive somewhere but if you were to actually use BTC frequently you could potentially run into issues. The things that make BTC appealing to its small userbase are also the things that make it unappealing to most of the general public. People for the most part want ease of use, transparency and protection.

>>272305
I had an acquaintance in college send himself 6oz of weed through the USPS after he bought it with bitcoin of the Silk Road

>wow
>such anonymous
>hard 2 trace
>very busted
>guilty as charged
>much felony

Point being: I'd say 80% of bitcoin "muh freedom from fiat" shills are idiots who worship infowars and Ron Paul

>>272314
>what is coinmixing

>>272314
I'm pro crypto and I like it because of fast transfers, no bank and ease of use. I can have someone receive a transaction in the time it takes my banks site to tell me it'll be 2 business days.

>>272318
What type of transactions are you doing?

>>272320
Money shows up in your wallet the instant it is sent

>>272320
Miner to exchange to other coin then 50% to housemate that went halves in miner. If we ever get over 1% of people into crypto then I should be able to use it as a real currency but for now adoption is to low.

I can see facebook and android games changing that as they can charge pay-to-win in play bucks so it feels less like real money to users.

>>272327
But what are you selling that makes bitcoin a better bet than a normal PCI compliant payment system?

>>272314
Therein lies the rub.
Many markets are made black due to government policy, marijuana is a prime example, alcohol prohibition is another.

The simple truth that this society won't last forever coupled with the fact that all civilizations eventually go insane and the advent of the digital age I would say most idealistic bitcoin users are progressive and have no other avenue to publicly display disdain for our current system.
Realize most people won't assemble for fear of persecution or blacklistings.

"We are the 99%" has transformed into "bypass the fed with bitcoin" It's as much a tool for protest as it is for commerce. I find our policy makers today creating immoral situations and ethically I won't have any part of it.

Today is the very day DOGE is going to die at all.

>>272340
Doge has been dead fuck off NEET

>>272329
So you're moving play money around in play wallets?

>>272349
Yep, except for when I pull pic related day trading.

>>272364
What are you retarded

Why is bitcoin a faggot
I own Doge but the problem when bitcoin goes down doge too

>>272366
wanna fight

>>272371
Fuck off NEET

>>272256
They are building a wall protecting the blockchain. This is a basic idea.

>>272358

>buys shill coins
>calls it day trading

>>272381
>buys and sells

>>272364
>i bought virtual coins based on a dog meme
>i cannot understand why they are losing value

>>272381
I had a 2500% return in 13 days, please post your better returns.

>>272298
I smell nocoiners lurking

>>272337
>>272337
>It's as much a tool for protest as it is for commerce
I believe you're right. If I thought for a second that BTC would cripple our current corrupt financial system and bring more wealth into the hands of the people I might even be on board myself. I don't think this is plausible though. Most of the policy makers are owned by the banking cartels. Just look at who the main contributors for the last election were. Even 40 years ago there might have been a chance to reign in the Fed but now the damage is already done and the debt ceiling will keep on being raised. Elimination of the Fed would create more damage than it would good at this point. The Fed has become a necessary evil just like the entire banking system. I would like to believe that all our financial experts and economists can put their heads together to fix this mess, that they are more intelligent and capable than the Romans were but there is way too many parallels between the Roman Empire and ours. History always repeats.

>>272402
>Implying that was a single trade
How stupid are you?

>>272358
It's not day trading when it takes two weeks

>>271956
I always wonder why the most uneducated have the strongest opinion.

I suspect many people defending bitcoin to the death have a large investment in bitcoin and would lose a lot of money if it were to disappear. Instead of educating themselves they would rather cling desperately to their investment and try to convince the world that it will make them rich as well.

>>272375
lol kiiiiiinda...
You do realize that the same thing can be accomplished while using the processing power to real world purposes like scientific data validation?

>>272415
No it can't. You're not a programmer dude fuck off.

>>272358
>babby learns to doctor a screen

>>272417
Actually it can and already is. The technology is there. Please do some research on it.

>>272417
Riecoin
Primecoin
piCoin
Ripple

Get educated on a subject before claiming knowledge about it.

>>272428
Only one in that list is Primecoin, why doesn't do anything notable.

>>272418

>>272415
Miners have zero incentive to compute scientific data while trying to find blocks. Look at Primecoin as an example. It's not going anywhere.

>>272444
I didn't say miners weren't bastards

>>272447
As a miner it's about covering power cost. I would love to help by mining Ripple 24/7 but I'm burning money doing that. We need a well marketed coin with dedicated devs and a bit of financial backing to use a productive algo.

>>272450

So how long are you miners actually going to be making money from this?
If the price stabilizes to 250$ and LTC 3-5$ will it make any sense to mine crypto anymore?

>>272452
No one makes money mining BTC or LTC.

They mine the most profitable coin and exchange it

>>272456

Tons of people have ASICs mining BTC, just wondering when those guys are forced to stop.
That point can't be too far away.

>>272450
Point taken

>>272460
Oh lol, no they don't stop buddy.

Stop acting like BTC will just drop dead. Don't you know by now that this shit bubbles all the time?

It's still like 30-40x the value of 1 coin in the start of 2013

>>272452
It's a self balancing system where many will leave making it more profitable for those that stay. It seems to be a constant $10 per day per MegaHash is where most coins site due to this.
ASICs have changed the game for bitcoin and Scrypt ASICs are starting to take over Litecoin, Doge ect. Because of this devs are always working on new algo's to get the GPU miners, the latest and greatest is X11. For now I'm mining many coins that only make me $2 a day at time of mine but often rise to $30+ after a hold period.

The big effect will be on GPU farms built for Litecoin, many people will lose millions in outlay. I think this is why Yuan / LTC is the most traded pair right now as Chinese farms try to support the price to protect their investment.

>>272470
winrar

>>272414
Did you read the link?

>>272456
>No one makes money mining BTC or LTC.
>They mine the most profitable coin and exchange it

I just checked the net hashrates on the coins, and you are very wrong.

>>272838
I'm not wrong, check the profitability. It's self balancing you fuck tard. Less people mining BTC/LTC? More profitable and vice versa. People can't just drop mining those coins. Also some people have ASIC farms.

>>272838
He is talking about regular miners and he is right in that respect. BTC and LTC are mined by farms that make it unprofitable for regular people to mine. Altcoins offer a much higher return but it takes time and effort to find good ones.

>>272853
>I'm not wrong, check the profitability.

I was obviously successful in refuting your point about nobody farming BTC or LTC in large numbers. The pool hashrates and active member count proved you wrong on both counts.

>>272450

But we already have that.

>>272869
You aren't looking at the whole picture.
A 1 Mhash Scrypt rig will get 3.2 Ghash on SHA-256.
SHA ASICs are common.
Many idiots mine BTC & LTC as they don't know better.

Day 1 altcoins with a new feature are the most profitable by far.

See http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency to see some of the more profitable coins.

>>272898
Because Scrypt is so productive and does useful work?

anyone else care to call the bottom? Optimistically I'm thinking 320-340, a bit more pessimistic/realistic 250-270.

>>272916
15th of April is bottom, this time it's the calendar dictating the price.

>>272916

0.

Buy dogecoin, it will save cryptocurrencies.

>>272916
Buy peniscoin. Its a new coin, it will save cryptocurrencies.

>>272925
Doge threads have gotten so delusional it's sad. It was a fun ride but if you held through 250 sato you fucked up. Scrypt ASICs are spitting it out as fast as they can and the dev doesn't want it to be worth more than 1 doge.

Don't get me wrong I'll buy back in when I see it turning around but that is just the jew in me, not some loyalty to doge.

>>272916
Buy Fecescoin. Shits legit, will save cryptocurrencies.

>>272932

>but that is just the jew in me, not some loyalty to doge

And that is why dogecoin will win.

Buy dogecoin, it will save cryptocurrencies.

>>272925
Buy UrineCoin. It looks pretty good, it will save cryptocurrencies for sure.

>>272938
Not today.

>>272946
>back up to 96 on the right
>m-maybe if I take a screenshot with 12h candlesticks p-people will believe my message

>>272949
There was I time I would trade on 5 minute sticks, that time has passed and I'm doing much better for it.

>>272925
Buy dildocoin, it will save cryptocurrencies.

>>272899
>Many idiots mine BTC & LTC as they don't know better.
>Day 1 altcoins with a new feature are the most profitable by far.

Searching for and taking risks on Day 1 coins is a massive gamble. You are envisioning a scenario where new coins with valuable features are continually and predictably being released.

Protip: They aren't.

Buy stupid ass meme coin with a retarded reddit following. It is going to save cryptocurrencies.

if BTC ever hits $20/coin again I'm getting in

how long do you think I'll have to wait?

>>272965

Not long, logarithmically speaking.

>>272955
Worked for Mona and Mint and now I'm far enough up I can wear some loses without caring.

>>272949
Now I'll explain why I went 12 hours. here is 15m and it has no tested floor.

>>272969
30m, no tested floor

>>272972
1h, no tested floor

>>272975
2h, no tested floor

>>272978
4h, no tested floor

>>272965

That will only happen if some massive bug is discovered in the protocol, something that fucks up the system so hard that is beyond recovery.

>>272982
6h, no tested floor

>>272965
You'll have to wait until time travel is invented

>>272986
We get it asshole

>>272986
Now lets take a closer look at what a recovering chart looks like. The 3rd of Feb looks like a nice place to start.

>>272983
>implying

i'm starting to feel sorry for these people who still believe in BTC

it was a great ride, but you gotta know when to get off.

>>272981

you mean like how nobody aside from drug dealers use BTC?

>>272990
;^)

>>272989
No lets not

>>272989
Fuck bitcoinwisdom doesn't let me look back that far in detail.

>>272991
nigga that isn't a bug

btw the sillkroad dont exist no more

>>272990
HAHAHA
>IMPLIGYN

>>273002
yeah it was obvious you were someone that used tools without understanding how they worked

>>273010
I don't often try to look back 2 months in 15m resolution.
I read the head and shoulders fine and sold most of my doge when it broke the 277 floor.

Found a less detailed chart that covers that period. It dropped to 138 twice and 139 once before starting up, that is a tested floor.

>>273024

>>273028
>>273024
FUCK OFF NIGGER

>>273031

>>273024
you sound as knowledgeable as people that think "three steps" is some kind of golden trend

i hope for your sake that you're just inarticulate

>>273037
I don't believe in any golden trend / rule, honestly I just back coins I think have potential and keep and eye on volume / price. Doge got me started with a 33 buy and 277 sell, then a 5 buy on Mintcoin and half sold at 45 I'm still holding the other half as the dev is getting it accepted at a lot of places.
I'm currently betting on credits and comedygold after just covering my power on Sloth. My only really big loss was microcoin, I bought at 4 and expected 20 but it wasn't to be. Still holding that is it might come good when the exchange is up.

>MUH DOGE

That shit is even more dead, like the fucking stupid reddit le mene it's based on.

>>271930

Damn I'm good.

Next stop on the train is 310, boys and girls. Time to open your short positions.

so should i buy some coins now that they're cheep?

>>273135
They will be cheaper tomorrow, expect the 15th or 16th to be the low.

>>273080
Who are you quoting?

>>273202
Every DOGE shill in here

>>271675
ITT : I am a libertarian and if I hope and pray enough my fantasy of a non regulated currency will come to pass and because of that hope and praying I wont lose the 12k$ I stupidly pumped into BTC

>>273233
Did you buy at 1k

>>273238
Physical gold for me.
I love these threads.

>>273242
I'm in crypto for the wild ride, only a fool would bet more than they are willing to burn on it.

>>273249
you are the lone sane man in a room full of children

>>271999
>Ripple is the worst.Centralized and controlled.


You're completely delusional and uninformed about the environment in which business operates.

Those two points are exactly why Ripple will be the next big online payment system. But meh, don't take my word for it, invest where you see fit. But there's a good reason most people will never be rich: self-delusion.

>>273273
good luck with that rippletits

>>271999
>Companies are accepting bitcoin now

Oh shit, I kek'd.

>>273286
What?

>>273117

How exactly do you short BTC?

>>273291

If BTC was accepted in commerce, as was intended, it would not be a sinking ship as it is now. Get it?

>>273319
bitfinex.com

>>273321
How any companies stop accepting bitcoin? If there is a net acceptance it grows. For many businesses the cost to implement bitcoin capabilities are competitive to existing payment services or free.

>>273516
> For many businesses the cost to implement bitcoin capabilities are competitive to existing payment services or free.
It's more of a "look at how modern we are" pr thing.

>>271675
Itll get pumped back above 10k. Its a darpa project. They want us to believe we're getting out of the clutches of the fed.

They get all yhe old grannies retiremwnts in it, all the young adults. Then they release the satoshi wallet holdings and the coins the fbi has and crash the market.

They dont need the money they just needed one more ace in the sleeve to push us toward the final dystopian vision.

We'll be living in cubickles and eating soylent and we'll thank them for allowing us to piss.

>>271728
>It can't implement regulation. A truly successful digital currency will need to be regulated to adjust to economic conditions
That's not want makes money money.

>>271999
>Companies are accepting bitcoin now because there is an emerging demographic of people who want to pay on the internet pseudo-anonymously. Once you couple this to the distributed nature of the ledger and open source protocol you have a winning combo.
Companies are doing it because they're testing the waters on something that has a growing popularity and looked like an easy way to make money by holding it. I doubt any company that accepted it, unless it was a small business, did it to specifically cater to anonymity.

You don't have to be pro-govt or anti-govt, pro-central bank or anti-central bank, to make this following simple observation:
People value convenience over anonymity.

If anonymity was such a big concern to the general populace they'd pay for things in cash instead of credit cards.

One of the biggest going forward problems with BTC is convenience and simplicity for the average joe, and being pegged to the dollar and income taxes. At the end of the day the government has guns and they want their tax money, and they want it in dollars.

>>273895
ease of use is an issue, it was also an issue for the web in 1995. Those are solvable problems, and there is money to be made by solving them. Just take one look at the VC space and you should understand where bitcoin/cryptos is really at in terms of its life cycle.

>>273901
>>273895
BTC is the simplest way to accept payment.
>IRL?
QR code, pay with phone instantly
>Online?
Copy n past address and pay

>>273572
>conspiracy theories
Leave faggot

Price recovered like fuck

Any predictions?

By the end of this coming week the price will drop to $350USD. You heard it here first.

>>274114
It already dropped to 350

Good news in China brought it up to 420+

>tfw got a little worried but had faith
>shorted 5BTC
How does it feel to suck at trading?
I actually haven't lost on a trade for 6 months now
wanna know how?
I'm not greedy, I could have made 20 BTC off this if I could perfectly predict the future but what I can do is reasonably predict probability of things happening in the future
if I'm not sure, I don't do shit or I take the safest course of action
Result is I never lose, and in the end I'll come out ahead, slow and steady wins the race