/biz/ - Business & Finance

because CPU is dying and everyone with a brain knows AMD and NVIDIA are better positioned to profit from the coming GPU explosion (AI and self driving cars)

>>27195896
I just don't know why I'd invest in Intel when it isn't performing well as a company in terms of actual product.
AMD CPUs are really going for the throat right now and for all but the very top performing CPUs you get a better cost/performance ratio with AMD so it seems to me that Intel isn't a good investment right now.

Because Intel isn't a meme stock - its a boomer stock with a large enough market cap that it can't be manipulated by reddit, and that's being raped by AMD

>>27195896

because intel is an actually good company that wall street hates it, not a memestock

if you're smartmoney you should be pricing in the april invasion of taiwan by the ccp, just sayin'

>>27195896
Intel are running on fumes atm. Overall AMD, intels main rival, has put out superior product after superior product for a couple of generations now. Recently AMD took the gaming throne off Intel with their 5xxx series of CPU's. This was Intels last sliver of hope as AMD products at a similar or even lower price point pretty much wiped the floor with any of their offerings in non gaming related tasks.

Intel owns their own fabs and have been stuck on the same 14nm manufacturing process for the past 6+ years where as AMD out sources the manufacturing of their products to TSMC who have the best manufacturing process available and are the ones leading the way in terms of manufacturing processes. This has hamstrung intel big time and there is no real sign of progress for their main stream products any time soon (Intels next generation confirmed to be on 14nm again) as they cannot get the yields they need to make going from 14nm > 10nm profitable.

AMD have become very proficient at getting good results out of TSMC's technology as well. The leap they made on the same 7nm node going from last generations 3xxx series to this generations 5xxx in terms of performance and power usage on process was mind blowing. Double digit ICP gains, a frequency boost at the same power usage as last generations processors on the same node shows AMD has amazing talent working for them. They have also made massive gains in market share since they launched Ryzen; some sources show they lead Intel now for the first time in decades.

AMD's next generation of processors are rumored to be on TSMC's 5nm technology; this is almost certainly another massive leap in performance which Intel cannot match without a node upgrade. They are already at thermal and power limits of the 14nm node they use. We are seeing 250w power draw and near 100 degrees Celsius on their 11xxx series which will require users to invest heavily in expensive power and cooling solutions for their purchases.

>>27196111
>he coming GPU explosion (AI and self driving cars)
you're saying that the computing processes that those mechanisms will be reliant on are going to be more GPU reliant than CPU?

>>27196956
>pricing in the april invasion of taiwan
how do I leverage that into financial gain...commodities markets? Does Taiwan export anything big?

>>27197679
yes, they already are.
tesla uses nvidia gpu's right now

>>27197432
this is brilliant analysis. Thank you for taking the time to share this with me. Also, you seem well informed. If I give you my email address or discord name, you down to chat further?

>>27195896

because AMD is the one actually making waves right now.

>>27197922
Hmm. Are you able to explain how/why that is? I don't understand why it wouldn't be CPU reliant; as far as I understand, GPU's thrive in graphics computations, but I don't see what graphics a bunch of data calculation (what I assume ((maybe incorrectly)) to be a CPU reliant process) would need to render.
Admittedly I am not familiar with self-driving or automation at the micro level

x86 is dead because Apple

>>27195896
They recently got cut by Apple and something else and their stock took a nosedive iirc

>>27198171
theyre mostly just cameras with standard AI learning techniques to identify other cars and shit.
its basically just a video game and the GPU just processes the information much better than a CPU can.
look up a youtube video if you want to learn it more specifically

>>27195896
>Ctrl+F jew
>0 results
Im disappointed /biz/. Its Israeli spyware baked into shitty hardware. Octa and Penta is memecore when it actually gets real loads just ask >>>/g/ AMD mafia all day

>>27195896
market is a bitch, they have 0 innovations right now, and threadripper is kicking their ass

>>27197794
TSMC is what he was implying there I think, basically the leading chip fabricator of the world

>>27198453
10-4. Thanks

amd is the new intel thats why
boomers, israel, and bad management has effectively killed intel, it's like an old boomer with cancer, he knows he's dying at any moment but he doesnt know when and deludes himself hes got a long time to live
you want to invest in that decrepeit old guy? Or in the new hot tight 19 year old taiwanese genius that has a great career and baby making future in front of us?
the fact that intel stock is still at that price amazes me, it should be close to 0 dollars

>>27197432
>Intel owns their own fabs and have been stuck on the same 14nm manufacturing process for the past 6+ years where as AMD out sources the manufacturing of their products to TSMC who have the best manufacturing process available and are the ones leading the way in terms of manufacturing processes. This has hamstrung intel big time and there is no real sign of progress for their main stream products any time soon (Intels next generation confirmed to be on 14nm again) as they cannot get the yields they need to make going from 14nm > 10nm profitable.
I read that Intel will be getting 7nm in 2023, could we leverage that information into a low buy in say Q3 or Q2 2022?

>>27197794
Yeah Taiwan is like the backbone of AMD is what he's saying.
Having said that I sincerely doubt the US would allow China to take Taiwan's technological edge for itself without a serious fight.

>>27199040
>ead that Intel will be getting 7nm in 2023
pipe dream
have you seen all of intels failed promises? They have kept NONE of the promises in the past 6 years

>>27199069
you do know taiwan people are ethnically han chinese yes?
You do know with industrial espionnage its only a matter of time chinese mainland can into tsmc tech.

>>27198937
>hot tight 19 year old taiwanese genius that has a great career and baby making future in front of us
God fucking damn
Just a crumb of pussy... please...

>>27195896
>biz becomes a board about squeezing anything with at least one share short
1.3% short interest dude. Get over it.

>>27199235
I replied to someone specifically mentioning an invasion you dipshit

>>27196111
Don't forget mining boom for the short term

>>27198171
>ns their own fabs and have been stuck on the same 14nm manufacturing process for the past 6+ years where as AMD out sources the manufacturing of their products to TSMC who have the best manufacturing process available and are the ones leading the way in terms of manufacturing processes. This has hamstrung intel big time and there is no real sign of progress for their main stream products any time soon (Intels next generation confirmed to be on 14nm again) as they cannot get the yields they need to make going from 14nm > 10nm profitable.
>>27198453
>theyre mostly just cameras with standard AI learning techniques t
GM and Ford are going the LIDAR route, so no cameras.

GM and Ford produce 100 times the amount of cars and they will be relying on CPUs more than GPUs

Buy SMIC (provided they lift the sanctions so you can buy the ADR again) if you want a growing chip maker that can rival TSMC in the coming decade.

>>27195896
Intel has been fucking up HARD the last 2 years. Remember that big leak last spring lmao?

>>27198744
this
high end CPUs was all that Intel had left but now AMD has shown it's coming for that too
Not only that but AMD is making big gainz in the GPU area which only gives it more fuel to absolutely murder Intel in the future
Look at the parts people buy for new PC builds and everyone's buying Ryzen. No excitement about i7s or i9s. If you go into a parts shop all of the promotional hype is about AMD and Nvidia. Intel is a walking corpse.

>>27195896
Because Intel is going to continue to tank. They failed to use their market dominance to innovate and maintain marketshare and they have literally nothing coming down the pipe that could possibly change that. Rather than focus on competing with AMD they've decided to double-down on diversity and inclusion. If anything Intel is under shorted.

Shhh... I’m still buying. I only hold cash, BTC, and INTC. Intel is a pretty good value play and all the FUD is exagerated. If you actually know how computers work you’d know it will be an extremely long time before x86 is replaced. Also AMD has to negotiate with tsmc for low margin small production numbers. It doesn’t matter that they make better server chips when they can’t manufacture a sufficient quantity. Intel management looks like its getting back on track as well.

>>27199599
>GM and Ford are going the LIDAR route, so no cameras.
>GM and Ford produce 100 times the amount of cars and they will be relying on CPUs more than GPUs
alright anon now its your turn. LIDAR route, no cameras, CPU reliant. After reading anons and research in this thread, even if that were the case, does INTEL get those contracts? Or does Ford go with AMD? Knowing who gets the Motor Vehicle Manufacturing contracts would be critical here...how can we find out who the lead candidates for those contracts are?

>>27195896
Because intel-aviv has grown lazy and complacent and their recent CPUs suck ass. They're getting the shit kicked out of them by AMD.

Keep in mind, the CPU industry is the sort of thing where R&D and production take a very fucking long time to get through in order to actually deliver a product. Even if intel unfucks themselves now, it will still take them years to get back to being competitive. Just like it took AyyMD many many years of being totally noncompetitive before finally turning it around. So yeah, you could "buy the dip" and hodl intel stock, but you won't be seeing gains on that for years.

>>27199823
>If you actually know how computers work you’d know it will be an extremely long time before x86 is replaced
I don't, but educate me. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person who learned something new.

>>27195896
what does reddit think? i'd be curious to see what wsb has to say

see if you can send a message to u/deepfuckingvalue, hes the genius behind the GME moon landing

if he or some informed redditors say buy buy buy then it's probably a good idea

here on /biz/ we only really deal with crypto coins, and really only meme ones that we can pump and dump to newcomers

>>27195896
If any substantial war breaks out Intel wins HUGE.

Intel is engaging in vertical integration, this will pay off huge as political instability and global demand increases.

AMD and Nvidia will have to depend on other suppliers more heavily which is an increasingly big risk.

Long on Intel. There basically the GE/Boeing/ATT of computing, they are never going away.

>>27195896
Intel's entire back-catalog of processors across all corporate applications turned out to be insecure and they're current and planned future products are inferior to AMD ones. There's no point in them at the moment.

>>27199979
L.O.L. at that fucking picture. What a bunch of dumb globo homo niggers. I am not touching Intel with a ten foot pole if that type of leadership exists in the corporate C.O.C.

>>27197432
this
>>27198648
reminder that AMD has PSP which is just as much of a hardware backdoor as Intel ME

>>27195896
Intel = Israeli
AMD = well, not Israeli

>>27199909
I think Intel will because Intel is building it's own foundries and will be backed by the US government in the interest of national security.

AMD and Nvidia will be more susceptible to supply chain disruption in 5 years. Also, AMD and Nvidia are assuming China plays fair, they wont, China looks after China and many big American companies still dont get that.

Intel is being set up to be a complete all in one company, from wafe to machine.

>>27200329
If there's a war with china, the least of our worries is AMD/jewvidia supply chains

>>27199823
Holt shit you're legitimately retarded

>>27199990
Beware, companies like Apple are trying to meme ARM into being the architecture de jour.

>>27200329
>Intel is being set up to be a complete all in one company, from wafe to machine.
In theory, that's true. It's the model U.S. Steel ran their company in the 1900s to become wildly successful. Standard Oil, too. In modern times, ALDI.

The problem is having full service under one roof is fine and all, but that's not enough. You have to have products that are better. Then having all those pieces in one company act like your +5% buff stat modifiers and you fuck.

Intel's shit is shit and full of Israeli-made backdoors that the government knows about and doesn't care. AMD simply makes better products right now.

>>27200329
>the US cares about national security enough to buy intel
>meanwhile the military has its eye on TSMC
lol

>>27200441
actually it's a very big issue, and that was one of Trumps last meetings and bipartisan efforts.

He met with the head of intel and they talked about a tax incentive to start new foundries in the US.

I might go as far to say that one of the only reasons war hasnt broken out is because we dont have the computing manufacturing ready to wage war yet.

US does not let people have control over it, US has all its own oil and all it's own food. Big biz in America realized they got into a precarious situation because computer chips are basically a neccessity for life and realized we dont have enough should china get mad.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-and-chip-makers-including-intel-seek-semiconductor-self-sufficiency-11589103002


Im not betting against America, america may suck but its still the most dynamic country on earth.

As a rule, i never bet against swedes, japs, or americans. In the long run, they always seem to win.

>>27199040
No. Intel has suffered massive brain drain and can't deliver on their promises. Obviously things can change but there is no evidence to believe that it will.

>>27200790
>i never bet against swedes, japs, or americans.
I'd take one of those off the list.

>>27200790
Yes and Samsung and TSMC are taking that initiative without waiting for a government subsidy, once again forcing Intel to play from behind

>>27200790
america going to war with china means the end of america, simple as. The country is barely holding itself together, and literally no one (besides the jews that run everything) want a fucking war with them. And over what? gay protests for muslims and hongkongers?

>>27200747
>products that are better
almost no one uses the available computing power we currently have.

Vast majority of computing power is used on poor programming.

And gains in computing have reached diminishing value of returns.

More stuff will use CPUs that dont need to be as powerful.

Think about fridges that now have CPUs, there not some amazing CPU but they have one and thats demand.

>>27200988
>Think about fridges that now have CPUs, there not some amazing CPU but they have one and thats demand.
I get the concept. That's why Intel isn't going to go anywhere despite the memes. But prices in stock fluctuate just as much on public perception as sales. AMD is perceived to have better shit right now. That's the end of it.

>>27199069

I agree it's not the most likely of scenarios, but I wouldn't say the chances are zero. We just watched HK get fucked and destroyed despite major protests and it was basically ignored because IMPEECH and because euros are straight worthless. All because they didn't go public execution mode like with Tiananmen Square. Oh and China is imprisoning, sterilizing, and organ harvesting a minority they don't like at this very moment and this is just being ignored because 50% of the money in developing world index funds are allocated to china

If unrest in the US continues into spring-- and it's looking like the democrats are quite keen to publicly execute (figuratively) trump even though he has no power now -- April is a golden opportunity for the commies. Possibly now or never even.

>>27199823
TSMC is expanding to US and servers will move to ARM and RISC V chips in ten years since efficiency is king.
Get ITLC only once it dips in 2022 and expect to HODL for 4 years to make 4x if they make it from the brink of death.
Screencap This.

Mkt cap 225.48B
Mkt cap 225.48B
Mkt cap 225.48B

>>27200976
samsung and TSMC are heavily subsidized by both their respective governments (korea and taiwan)

>>27200986
>america going to war with china means the end of america
Not even close. In the 1940 US was in great depression and Japan was a much more formidable enemy and America prevailed.

>>27200986
>And over what?
Increased prices, unemployment, lack of social services. China's gains have come at the expense of US jobs and a now increasing price for raw materials.

Alot of men in the US are poor, despondent, with little future. Politicians know war offers men hope and could make China a US colony like it did with Japan.

Also, China is starting to ripoff big gay american corporations now to.

>>27201226
>now or never
It's not though. China doesn't have to worry about elections, so the policy stays the same over the long term. There's no rush for them to invade Taiwan when they can just wait 50 years and focus on overtaking the US first.

>>27196111
Intel under new management. they're also releasing GPU's soon.

>>27201315
ARM has about 2 decades of work to put in the features to even be seriously considered in the server market. Then there is going to be another decade while server engineers test them for reliability which is what is king not efficiency

>>27201448

someone forgot their population is about set to start its decline

>>27201415
>Not even close. In the 1940 US was in great depression and Japan was a much more formidable enemy and America prevailed.

You would have lost if the Russians didn't join the Pacific conflict. But please keep believing the US propaganda version in which the NUKES ended the war against a population so brainwashed, they were flying their planes into ships to do minimal damage.

>>27197432
Intel has good people working for them too, to squeeze that much performance and lifespan out of that ancient node.

>>27201576
No, but maybe the tourist was unaware that China is now incentivising having 2 children, such as certain jobs in China not hiring childless or unmarried women, and the US population decline only being masked by mass migration which causes its own issues and weaknesses.

>>27201531
Please don't tell me you actually believe these two things are a saving grace...

>>27195896
who gives a fuck about stocks this is a crypto board

>>27199040
pretty sure they're trying to purchase from TSMC or Samsung.
Intel CPUs are just not going to be relevant for 5+ years.

>>27195896
If intel could just fix their foundry shit they'd be unstoppable right now. Not having to bid against every fucking company on earth for TSMC wafer allocations is such a huge boon.

>>27199069
TSMC is in charge of chips for a lot more than just AMD.

>>27195896
Apple is clearly going to be the winner. Nvidia is probably the bull buy (!)

>>27199235
Lol, you don’t know shit about Taiwan if you think them being Han opens the door to China. They have a massive statue of Chang Kai Shek guarded by two soldiers. The Taiwanese I’ve met are patriots. Taiwan shut down travel from the mainland at the outset of COVID.

>>27201746
2 words: jim keller

>>27195896
You are really dumb.
They're stuck on 14nm and have been since forever. AMD is completely destroying them. They won't be able to fix their production for 3 years minimum. The whole specter/meltdown/etc.etc. fiasco fucked them up in datacenters and similar segments.
The reason for the recent rise is because they changed CEO and there's hope the new guy can turn the situation around, but it's going to take years and most people just don't believe in this yet (I don't either). Also changing CEO doesn't change how fucked their entire pipeline is and how they fucked themselves by being such jews about backdoors.
AMD is also the provider of all next-gen consoles which means AMD will have a massive resource advantage compared to their usual self that may allow them to slingshot to a solid dominant position for the next decade or two.
Intel GPUs are useless so far, Xe isn't anything worth mentioning and will NEVER EVER be able to compete in the ML space (simply because everything is written in cuda, intel GPUs could be 100x faster than nvidia's, they'd still lose).
Basically, they're in a really tough spot with no way out yet.

>>27198171
GPUs = slow memory access, slow computation on each core, but ridiculously parallel-capable (>1k cores).
CPU = faster memory access, fast per-core computation, but very little parallelism (32-cores per CPU at best).
ML = dot products and convolutions (which are just dot product in fourier space) = basically perfectly parallelization (within one layer anyway) = 100x faster on gpu than cpu.
Same reason crypto was mined on gpus before asics.

>>27202170
We talmbout the same Jim Keller that resigned from Intel during the summer and now is the CEO of some Canadian chip start-up?

>>27202207
yea he was there for 2 years though streamlining their development pipeline like how long does that take its not like he was doing a processor architecture like ryzen.

by the way did you guys know jim keller is married to jordan peterson's sister

>>27202703
oops meant to reply to >>27202445

>>27200676
Alternative ISAs are extremely important, we're being fucked by re-implementing pdp-11 emulators all the way since the 80's and this needs to end. ARM is chosen here to unify phones and desktop which is low but it's a first step at least. Anyway, competition on that level is important despite the fact it's been nonexistent since apple killed the ppc.

>>27196111
>coming gpu explosion
>crypto miners buy gpu at capacity
hope youre in on energy and steel cuz we're gonna need more gpu factories