/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>27188067
Only taxed if you realized the gain by selling.

>>27188067
You will never pay taxes and all will be well.

>>27188067

why wouldn't you literally just do this with stocks, dumb fucking retard. Instead of getting dumped and losing 80% of your wealth when governments inevitably create their own crypto currencies

>>27188190
Literally the reverse

>>27188067
Just hold long enough to not get killed with short-term gains taxes.

>>27188067
this is the safest way to escape the rat race
gmi

>>27188067
You should do this with regular stocks dude. AAPL is dipping, this is a good time to pick up shares. $400 by 2025.

>>27188190
>why wouldn't you literally just do this with stocks,

I am. But I’m doing it with crypto aswell.

>>27188126
>>27188169

So 100% with crypto I am not liable for any kind of tax so long as I hold, not at least until the final moment where I’ve finally cashed out, which then I’ll have to pay CGT on that.

I’ve seen people get fucked up by trading Crypto for Crypto and not realising that’s considered a realized gain, so I am avoiding that. Just sticking to Fiat > Crypto and will only Crypto > Fiat in 5-10 years or whenever I have enough in Crypto to buy a house outright

>>27188190
do you know what decentralized mean?

>>27188190
Why would you buy the government crypto? It will be exactly the same as the dollar, no limit and infinite. And if people are forced into it, it will be bullish for BTC, easier to buy/cash out.

>>27188417
Yeah I’m in Australia, apparently if I hold cryptocurrency for more than 12 months the capital gains tax is reduced from 30% to 15%

>>27188581
>it will be bullish for BTC, easier to buy/cash out.
it would. No Tether bullshit. It would be great.

Anon please do this and don’t trade. I’m in the process of amending my 2017-20 returns and it’s a living hell trying to login to all of these accounts on random exchanges I used 4 years ago. Some of them don’t even exist anymore and I can’t get my trading history so now I have to pay some kike thousands to add some “synthetic” trades to fill the gaps.

>>27188899
There ya go. You'll sleep better as well

>>27188933
Just claim you swapped to ETH and back a few times retard.

>>27188933
Are you in the US ?
If so it is actually easy if you know where to go.

>>27188067
>Crypto for Crypto


Even then you only need to report any gains. if you exchange $100 of BTC for $100 of XMR, there are no realized gains, so nothing to report.

>>27189278
Thats not at all how that works

>>27189348
Yet it is. Not my fault you're stupid enough to pay taxes you don't need to.

>>27188190
Yes, when governments create their own oracle network which everyone ditches chainlink for, you'll be stuffed. In fact you may as well sell all your chainlink now. Please will you sell it now?

>>27189348
How the fuck do you think it works then?

>>27189489
You are a fucking idiot. I was trying to be nice

You buy 1 Bitcoin at $10,000
You buy Monero with that Bitcoin when Bitcoin is at $30,000
You now owe taxes on the $20,000 difference you fucking pleb

Us capital gains tax on short term sales are 10% to 37%. So you will owe $2,000- $7,400 in taxes.

>What happens (tax wise) if I just keep accumulating cryptocurrency and never selling it?
You go broke.

>shit coin will be shut down
>the only block-chink allowed will be gov't controlled
>...and that's the state's Predator drones' and Abrams tanks' bottom line

>>27188169
Easy way to get fucked by three letter agencies. IRS doesn’t fuck around

>>27190002
Wrong. You owe nothing because Monero is untraceable. Nice try IRS faggot.

>>27188524
Yes no swapping or buying anything with crypto. Thats when you have a realized gain.

>>27189023
What happens if I get audited
>>27189222
Yes

>>27190281
>Monero is untraceable
newfag spotted

>>27190281
and where did you buy this monero ?

Whenever you incur a taxable event from your crypto investing activity, you incur a tax reporting requirement.

A taxable event simply refers to a scenario in which you trigger or realize income. As seen in the IRS virtual currency guidance, the following are all considered taxable events for cryptocurrency:

Trading crypto to fiat currency like the US dollar
Trading one crypto for another cryptocurrency
Spending crypto to purchase goods or services
Earning crypto as income

Crypto Crypto

John purchases 5 Litecoin for $250. After holding onto his Litecoin for a couple of months, John trades all 5 Litecoin for 0.5 ETH. At the time of the trade, 5 Litecoin is worth $400.

In this scenario, John incurs a taxable event by trading his Litecoin for Ethereum. Trading one crypto for another is treated as a disposal, and here John incurs a $150 capital gain from the trade which he would need to report on his taxes (400 - 250).

>>27190413
Read this
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
and this
https://cryptotrader.tax/blog/the-traders-guide-to-cryptocurrency-taxes

and do you taxes here.
https://bitcoin.tax/

It will pull in all your trades from every exchange, going back to the day the exchange opened.
Easy as it gets.

>>27188899
well that's fucking awesome

>>27190638
It's not too bad in the US
In the U.S., long-term capital gains tax rates are 0% for people with taxable incomes less than $78,750, 15% for single tax filers with taxable incomes between $78,750 and $434,550 ($488,850 for married couples filing jointly and widow(er)s, $244,425 for married couples filing separately, and $461,700 for heads of household), and 20% for those with taxable incomes that exceed the 15% threshold.

>>27190609
I already imported all of my trades into bitcoin.tax but I have 20 or so trades that error out due to say selling 0.50 BTC when according to my records I only have 0.45 because I made that extra 0.05 BTC on an exchange that shut down with no history available like Cryptopia.

>>27190471
Except that is no where near the reporting limit. Nice try IRS faggot.

>$19.28

holy fucking shit

>>27191051
You can enter trades in manually. I had to do that alot in 2018.
If you don't know the exact amount, neither do they.
The IRS doesn't care as long as you are making your best effort.

>>27191102
ALL tax events are reportable.
They just might not be taxable.
Play silly games with the IRS and you'll find out.

>>27191209
>IRS fag is mad

Did you idiots break monero yet? No? That's too bad...

>>27191309
If you buy that monero on an exchange then, they know
Keep telling anons to commit criminal acts.
They are asking about paying their taxes, not avoiding them.

>>27191437
People come here to get rich. No billionaire on earth got rich by paying chump taxes. Nice try IRS.

>>27191743
What a faggot. People have high 6 figure ports here and are asking about their tax liabilities. Not about hiding their $500 in BTC buying some Monero from Rayray on the crack corner.

Try explain to the IRS where that money to buy that house came from.

Fucking pleb

>>27191151
Sounds like I should just do the phony trades myself and save out on paying some kike thousands. Hell I’ll even make the phony trades a capital gain.

>>27192442
If you can explain future purchases to the IRS, go for it.

>>27192057
Overseas shell company. 100% tax free. Nice try IRS.

>>27193206
LMAo you got it all figured out.. You do you

>>27193248
Cope, seethe, & dilate IRS tranny.

>>27193344
If you only knew

>>27193412
We already know you're a seething tranny. No one cares.

>>27193751
Take tax advice from this guy.

>>27193845
Seethe

>>27193901
Ok I won't seethe. Let's hear your advice
650k of about 15 Cryptocoins in Secure wallets.
How do i avoid paying taxes.
Be specific.

>>27188581
>Why would you buy the government crypto?
because they'll just make everything else illegal

>>27188899
WTF. I live in Brazil and we don't have this "you can't get rich off day trading" kind of tax.

Hmmm. Shit.
So, if I go on metamask and I convert etherium tokens for rubic, I have to pay a tax on that shit? The what is the purpose of the service?

>>27194073
1.Open shell company in tax haven like seychelles.
2.???
3.PROFIT.

Yes, it's really that easy. Most of you trannies are just too stupid & lazy to figure out the heavy lifting.

>>27195599
No, but really. I just converted a shit ton of coin...

>>27188067
no taxes until you sell or trade for another crypto

>>27195599
You only pay gains of the total amount you're exchanging for is worth more than what you turned in. That n very happens, so it's not something anyone needs to worry about.

>>27196022
>seychelles
You truly are a midwit
The Seychelles and US signed a Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act in 2019.

>>27188067
Nothing tax wise. You are only taxed on gains for capital gains tax no matter what people think certain American politicians are going to do. It's not possible to tax the fiat gain in something you buy unless it is traded into another asset or thing after all 1 BTC is 1 BTC always has been.

Wealth tax however could potentially fall under that. But that only applies to surely 7-8 digit people at the least and in some countries is sub 0.5% a year or something .

>>27188067
>OG pic related
that's a possibility. you can just never cash out, but if one day you don't need to sell anymore, you also won't need to pay

>>27196022
Was reading a little into this before. It gets very complex doesn't it. Whether your country decides to class this business as a being tax resident or not since it's being run from your country etc. There's a lot of hoops to jump through to make it work.

>>27196312
>Not legally binding
>Every exchange is headquarted there.

Please do go on why people should keep letting the IRS steal from them mr.trannie.

>>27196478
Well, bitcoin became the world currency accepted everywhere tommorow. Would Istill owe capital gains if the fiat my BTC gained against no longer exists?

>>27196164
How in the world would you have a gain, if the swap is for an equivalent amount. I don’t understand. If I convert 3 eth for an absurd amount if RBC, what are the tax implications.
Asking for a friend...

>>27196492
Only for poor smoothbrains.

>>27190120
what happens

>>27196704
You wouldn't have a gain because you're swapping for an equivalent amount.

>>27196585
Seychelles, Longtime Home of BitMEX, Is Bending to US Pressure on KYC Dec 2020

Out of a list of 26 crypto exchanges domiciled in the Republic of Seychelles, approximately half have KYC procedures, according to blockchain tracking firm CipherTrace.

Safety rating of exchange sin the Seychelles 2.3/10

Yeah sounds good..

>>27196655
no, because then they can't quantify how much that is. it's like me asking you to convert a gold bar into sand. they would have to tax you some other way like income, etc

>>27197109
>Look at this exchange no one ever heard of!

Seethe more IRS tranny.

>>27197340
Wow you are new.
The entire 2018 derivatives debacle was on Bitmex you fucking newb
LMFAO

>>27191102
nigga you are a moron what he said is 100% correct. every single transaction that is either a trade or sell triggers a taxable event in which you must pay the tax on your gains.

>>27191437
>Keep telling anons to commit criminal acts.

>>27193206
KEK as someone intimately familiar with the IRS and conducting audits on retards like you good fucking luck bud. I can't count the number of idiots who've xferred crypto gains into U.S. bank accounts or bought things with it that triggered the bank or the seller to fill out a notification form of potential laundering which is usually 10K+ but they have the option of filling out at 5K or with repeated smaller transactions that top 10k which is then mandatory. you faggots always cry and plead as the past five years of your life in every measure are dug through and every fucking cent you can't account for is taxed

>>27197597
Please tell us how any of that has to do with taxes. I'll wait...

>>27194121
Then it's revolution faggot
Imagine trying to ban BTC

BTC is going to 1 million in the next 10 years

>>27198106
Because they are KYC
Nice pilpul

>>27198197
So they're not paying taxes. Good to know. Seethe more IRS tranny.

>>27198291
KYC
Not paying taxes

Umm you are like sub-retard

>>27198392
Keep seething tranny. Why you so mad you can't tax me?

>>27198485
I can't tax anyone and you are a moron.
Gonna put muh monies in da seychelles that I made selling muh millions to Rayray for muh moneros.

You are sub-moron dilation tier

>>27192057
lmao why are you buying a house

>>27198668
Already have 3
and I paid taxes

I will never pay taxes on crypto because I lost it all. I was in a tragic boating accident off the coast of Fiji and my trezor and seed phrase got lost

>>27191437
Taxes are the real criminal offense. If the government tells you to share your wife with Ahmed and Tyrone, you will obediently do so. Cuck.

>>27188067
in Germany you can cash out without taxes as long as you hold one year, tax free
I love this place

>>27198631
Cope, seethe & dilate IRS tranny.


SEYCHELLES FTW!

>>27198721
lmao i'm a bum i ride the bus
what is the IRS gonna take from me ahahahha

>>27198721
>Living in your mom's basement
>Lie about being able to afford a house after paying capitol gains.


Nice try IRS tranny.

>>27198976
LOL sure thing kid

>>27198725
This guy gets it.

>>27199029
By all means. Show us the deed & bill of sales for the 3 barbie playhouses you own.

>>27190422
Stfu, unless you explain

>>27188067
how are you going to sell it all in one go if the price tanks before you finish seling?

>>27199187
Yeah I'll throw that right up on 4chan for a larping 20 year old who doesn't know what Bitmex is and wants us to believe he magically moved his money to the Secyclles.
What exchange is it on ?

>>27199517
>LARPing tranny confirmed
>Still assmad you're too stupid & poor to set up a simple tax heaven in order to build wealth like actual rich people do.

What were you saying again about how all the billionaires on the planet somehow got rich from paying taxes?

>>27199903
>What were you saying again about how all the billionaires on the planet somehow got rich from paying taxes?

Oh you're a billionaire now. Musta been alot of trips down to the corner to trade your localmonero

What not enough time to find an exchange in the Seychelles you can larp as having your money in ?
Not real quick on the truth is ya ?

what happens if i realize a loss of 50 to see gain of 20 when i break even with my initial buy price? isn’t that losing more than i’ve made?

>>27188482
Why do people think things can't fail?
Apple has shit products.
You're just banking that normies will always have money to waste on phones and always care that they're apple bullshit.

>>27199411
He can’t. He’s accumulating and trying to FUD. Just ignore him. Or he’s a retarded, butthurt Maxi

>>27200119
That's a lot of cope.

What were you saying about how billionaires somehow became rich by paying taxes?

I'll wait...

>>27190120
You are a fucking loser. A literal gorilla nigger. KYS.

>>27191209
Your fucking evil agency is going down, nigger. We will eliminate the IRS in my lifetime.

>>27200415
>What were you saying about how billionaires somehow became rich by paying taxes?
Can you please show me where I said that ?

Whats this exchange in the Seychelles we should be sending our money to ?

>>27188067
>What happens (tax wise) if I just keep accumulating cryptocurrency and never selling it?
eventually janet yellen implements an unrealized capital gains tax
https://cryptonews.com/news/idea-of-taxing-unrealized-gains-resurfaces-as-money-printing-8973.htm

>>27193412
>>27193845
>>27194073
>>27193248
>>27192755
this is a disgusting pig nigger shill. You are the worst kind of human being.

>>27200525
lol, run out of material so soon tranny?

I can hear you dilating all the way over here.


Stay mad & stay poor IRS tranny.

>>27200755
Can't link me to your strawman. Thought so.
Never said billionaires became rich by paying taxes,
They didn't become billionaires by selling thier bitcoin for monero and sending it to some Secyelles exchange you can't name for 15 mins now either.

>>27188067
Bitcoin is traceable. They will get you.

>>27188524
I don't understand why crypto to crypto is considered a taxable event. These regulators obviously don't understand how crypto works since you need to swap ETH to buy most of the shitcoins

>>27188067
Instead of selling and cashing out, you'll have to pay taxes on capital gains. Just use the bitcoin as cash and spend it on a home and you won't have to pay taxes on gains.

>>27201525
>crypto to fiat - taxable
>crypto to crypto - taxable
>crypto to house - untaxable

wow you're so smart anon

>>27201362
why are XMR and ZCASH so worthless

>>27188067
>I'm a plebeian who wants to buy a house.

Dreaming about houses is for plebeians.

>>27200119
>>27199903
hey without taking either of your guys' side could one of you tell me where I should go if it weren't seychelles?
Like as an American if I wanted to legally not get taxed on gains without an IRA, is there a KYC-free exchange that lets me do this?

If not that's fine I just wanna know

>>27201037
>Never said billionaires became rich paying taxes.
>Advocates for anons to let corrupt politicians steal from them to support their drug habits.

Nice try IRS tranny.

Cope, seethe, & dilate.

>>27202517
There are lots, most are dogshit. One like Binance is good until the day you forget to turn your VPN on and then,, opps your account is frozen.
Or they IP range ban your VPN.

Get the name of that amazing Seychelle exchange that the other guy wont name.

>>27202517
No. You must own the exchange.

>>27202829
best you got ?
What's the name of the Secyelle exchange where we can hide all our Monero money ?

>>27193206
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Ray_Kahn

>>27202936
>Look at me seethe while I dilate

Poor, poor IRS tranny...

>>27202517
If you don't own an exchange, you will want to get in contact with an OTC desk for an exchange. Huobi is probably the best OTC desk for westerners. They're owned by china, so they won't snitch, & they'll help you launder your money.

>>27203043
I didn't find a magical Secyelles exchnage called Poor, poor IRS tranny.

What's the name of the exchange ? You didn't know Bitmex even existed. The largest exchange on earth in the options trade in 2018.

>>27203211
Sure you can. You just have to cope, seethe & dilate more.

>>27203308
>cope, seethe & dilate more.
Ok all coped, seethed & dilated more.
What's the exchange were we can send all of our converted monero to ?
Oh also where can we exchange all our coins for monero thus bypassing a tax event.

>>27203459
It's called poor poor coping, seething, dilating IRS tranny.

>>27203662
thought so..

>>27203844
>More coping, seething, & dilating.

>>27203978
>source: dude, trust me

>>27204076
>Cope, seethe, & dilate...

>>27188067
Here is the thing: You need to realize your profits into something. Even if Crypto currency has a "value", it's not realized. For example ideas have a "value", but until you realize your idea the taxes are zero, even if you know how to create something that will make you a billionaire.

BUT as soon as you changed the crypto currency into real money or assets, you are in for the taxes. For example you buy a car with crypto? Welcome to the car tax AND the realization tax on your new "income". You use your currency to buy something from a fast food chain? Welcome to the tax on your meal and the tax on the new money you used to pay for this meal. You hired a lawyer and paid him with bitcoin? Again, you have now used "real money" and therefore have to pay the taxes for your new money.

Also exchanging crypto for crypto is not necessarily taxable. Most likely people who "exchanged" crypto for crypto were actually converting the crypto money into real money and this money was reinvested into another crypto currency. If this is the case then yes, you have now made some kind of "income" and this is taxable.

But if you really just change Bitcoin into Dogecoin and there is literally no real money, no real service, or any other outside payment involved for this transfer, then in pretty much all countries in the world this should be tax free (but if you had to pay for transaction costs, broker costs, or any other fees then this is now taxable. Now the untouched crypto "currency", but the service to make the exchange "happening").

The only way to pay someone "out of thin air" without paying taxes is if he did it as a donation or if you wants in exchange your work and therefore there was no creating of money as an intermediate and therefore no taxes. Illegal work always involves money which is not officially paid. If illegal "workers" would literally work for free like Jannies, then there wouldn't be any taxes and this wouldn't be illegal.

Ask your accountant/lawyer.

>>27202873
>>27203208
thank you both.

Just hold until fiat is phased out or move to a tax haven

>>27204496
Wonderful answer. Saved.

Now my question is, if you send bitcoin to another address in exchange for, say, an HBO login, is that a taxable transfer?

>>27188067
Welcome to the new world, anon. Happy to have you join.

>>27204496
Except 4chan doesn't want their gains money funding Guantanamo bay. So you're wrong morally.

If I only make a $100 profit, how much of that money are they gonna take from me if I file taxes? $1000?

>>27204496
Crypto -> Crypto is a taxable event.

>>27207811
None. You don't have to file any gains unless they total over $20K in a year. Just like income tax.

>>27200340
>Apple has shit products.
No they definitely do not. Macbooks are the standard laptop in the tech industry. You're just a mad SJW because Apple became huge by eschewing "diversity" hiring; Steve Jobs took alot of flak for only surrounding himself with white and asian guys but the results speak for themselves.

>>27208301
i don't believe you.

>>27209304
I fucking hope he is right otherwise I am BTFO

With the way things are going, your money might slightly outpace the rate of inflation

>>27188067
This is pretty much what I plan to do too starting this year. I work a shitty job as a waiter meaning I make less than 40k a year. So if I hold my crypto for longer than a year I would have to pay 0% capital gains tax.