/biz/ - Business & Finance

Now I know we all have bags of various kinds, but let's all be objective on this.

>>26991723
not the only one because we will need decentralized exchanges and finance
but bitcoin is the unit of account, so it will be the number 1

I have 6 bitcoins

>>26991723
bitcoin is the prototype so no

>>26991723
Yes and no.
They are going to be the big loser early this year when Tether busts and it crashes to 5k or lower, and then later this year its going to 100K when the financial crisis reaches full swing.

>>26991723
No
/Thread

Bitcoin will act as a “store of wealth” for people and major institutions. Other coins with faster and cheaper transactions will take over day-to-day life.

>>26991723
for the time being, yes, due to the network effect and how well known it is
the future is high performance blockchain though

>>26991723
yes

>>26992124
>Other coins with faster and cheaper transactions will take over day-to-day life.
not necessarily
layer 2 is necessary to scale exponentially
once taproot is activated, LN is going to be much better

>>26992124
>>26992178
>what is the lightning network
seriously I'm fucking done explaining to you brainlets.
OP, just once, because you asked. Bitcoin is the most widely used, most actively developed, most secure and just over all the absolutely best crypto on this planet. You will NEVER be wrong with Bitcoin.

>>26991723
I mean it’s going to be the only version of what it is which is gold 2.0
As far as the only crypto? No, because they tend to all have different use cases.
Bitcoin is a store of value
Ethereum is a network
And then it comes down to the various coins built on that Ethereum network and what their use case is
At least that’s the way I see it in a very simplistic way

>>26992365
>most actively developed
lol yeah? prove it

>>26992178
>high performance blockchain
solana does 60k tps, but the amount of data it needs to be stored is crazy and it will keep getting centralized over time, it means nobody will be able to validate the entire history
if we want true decentralization we need to keep a Layer 1 everybody can verify, and then build on top of that a decentralized way to make prunable transactions (e.g. LN on BTC or looping/zkrollups on ETH)
You can't store forever every single tx in a decentralized fashion

>>26991723
unpopular opinion: BCH, BSV

The crypto space will probably keep evolving so there will probably be a handful of prominent coins at a time coming and going

>>26992476
D E L U S I O N A L

When I bought some doge coins yesterday, bitcoin was at 33k. Now it's at 36k. How of ten does this happen? I know nothing about this shit, is it possible to keep buying and selling bitcoin at the right times and gradually make money like this?

Bitcoin is a currency, Ethereum for example is more like an operating system. If you think bitcoin is going to be the only winner it's equivalent to thinking you can use dollar bills to run all the backend software of the current financial system. So to put it short, no and even asking that question tells us OP doesn't know anything about blockchain technology so I suggest you do some reading

>>26991723
Is it too late to jump into bitcoin?

>>26992178
>high performance blockchain
LMAO the entire /biz/ is a bunch of retards

>>26992552
this is a irritional market retard

>>26992701
your argument?

what the fuck is this thread? so many fucking newfags get off my board or at least lurk a year before posting

>>26992737
nobody gives a shit about dead scamforks

BAT is one of the only coins with a use

>>26992576
please sell everything you have and lurk for 3 months before you jump back in

>>26992445
no, DYOR. the data is out there, open for everyone to see who bothers looking.

>>26992576
Jesus
Yeah man it’s “possible” in a theoretical context but the fact you even have to ask means you’re not going to be any good at it.
You can do this with any financial instrument but bitcoin is probably the worst to do it with especially in a bull run.
If you want to swing trade a crypto then I’d look at link or ethereum.
You’re getting in over your head though and you will probably get rekt.
Just buy when it dips 20-30% and follow some actual traders to know when you’re getting overheated so you know to sell if you choose to do so.
Swinging btc will leave you rekt

>>26991723
No, Some defi coins and also Monero or another privacy coin will win.

>>26991723
Bitcoin is only the first time mover. Blockchain will be bigger than crypto itself

>>26992662
it's never too late
supply is capped, price is not

I always keep bitcoin and waves in my bag. I trust both of them very much.

>>26992235
>>26992365
Pearls before the swine

>>26992662
I would wait for the ATH to get breached or a retracement to $30k, whichever happens first.
>>26993161
you need to go back

>>26991885
>crashes to 5k or lower
>going to 100K
Why even bother posting such rubbish?

>>26992124
>That'll bne 8.35 DOGEs would you like some sauce for your tendies?

ITT:
Retards that dont understand what FEDWIRE is, and havent realized BTC will be the GLOBAL final settlement layer, with plebes increasingly driven to lower layer solutions according to their poverty level.
(95% will never "touch" btc, not even a sat, only bank-derivatives).

>>26993801
Yeah, I am just going to enter BTC upon the next crash

>>26991723
It will be the pariah of blockchain.

>>26992235
>>26993642
you are both crypto illiterate

L2 scalability is dependent on L1 scalability; LN can only get you so far alone, and absolutely nobody is using it

BTC is hot garbage and the writing has literally been on the wall since 2017; if you want to buy a ponzi, buy BTC, if you want certainty that the underlying asset will have actual demand, buy ETH

if you think I am wrong, you're retarded

>>26992662
More money was lost waiting for the correction than in the actual correction

>>26992829
lmfao this is actually sad. yesterday a retard made a thread saying robinhood blocked DOGE to stop people from buying it. literal newfags that don't know how crypto works

>>26991723
Bitcoin is not fungible and is transparent. The black markets had chosen Bitcoin as a currency back in 2011 with Silk Road, but today the black markets have already replaced it

>>26994269
that's not how I would do it.
if we breach the ATH of 42k then it's going to rocket up to who knows where.
If we can't breach 42k it will consolidate before re-testing, maybe it moves back down to 30k resistance and re-tests that horizontal support.
It's important to know your risks to both the upside and the downside but considering we JUST had a 30% pullback like a week or two ago I wouldn't be expecting another one of that magnitude any time soon.
As always, DYOR

>>26994690
I don't really have much of a choice. WealthTrade takes 5 days to process deposits, and CoinBase is taking forever to confirm my identity.

>>26991723
Bitcoin will always be #1 since it has no centralized management.
DeFi is going to be the next big thing tho, buying eth is a surely a good bet bc the whole defi ecosystem operates on eth (ok i know theres some polkadot efforts too but they're insignificant compared to the ERC-20 bullshit network). I have found that Elrond has the tech & the dedication to provide solutions for the ETH mainnet congestion problem (gas fees etc) and its only 1B marketcap so i'd also add that to my 'folio
also Chainstink

>>26991723
Bitcoin is the category killer and is currently attracting institutional investors.
Layer 2 solutions on BTC (e.g. Lightning network) will eventually invalidate most other tokens and coins.
The BTC base layer is complete.
ETH 2 is actually a technology company promising the moon.
ETH currently has an unlimited supply, a high inflation rate, and cannot be easily audited.

>>26992365
>Bitcoin is the most widely used, most actively developed, most secure
no

>over all the absolutely best crypto on this planet
mega no

Of course BTC is king.

But there are other awesome projects too: buy some ALEPH and research later

Aleph+Serum+Solana integration brrooooooo. So hot
https://twitter.com/aleph_im/status/1355127187897278464

>>26991723
>>26991788
objectively coins will pop after great reset.

right now buttcoin and the whole coin speculation is propped by boomer investment hedgies. reddit have just broke the hedgie. coin will follow, with regulations against speculation. biden administration will probably ban crypto. after that 3rdworlders won't wanna ``invest" into crypto anymore and the whole thing will pop to 0.

>>26994934
Which is funny because retards still try to FUD BTC to other retards by saying BTC is anonymous drug dealer money laundering currency when
A) that's the USD sorry sweatie
B) bitcoin is completely traceable
C) monero is actually private

>>26994944
I am just testing the waters with $500. I don't normally invest myself, but rather passively put funds into a mutual fund.

Buy. Now.

>>26995048
>DeFi is going to be the next big thing tho, buying eth is a surely a good bet bc the whole defi ecosystem operates on eth
Yes, but the most successful DeFi projects will need to build cross-chain bridges to avoid the possibility of ETH 2 failure.
That's right.
ETH 2 could fail.

>>26994593
people will be onboarded on layer 2 directly
you will buy on decentralized exchanges running on layer 2
btc will be only used as a settlement instrument
YOU ARE THE CRYPTO ILLITERATE, how do you expect 8 billions people + countless services doing 100 billions tx a day, to store all transaction data in a decentralized way?
you need extreme redundancy for decentralized systems
YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON
YOU CANNOT SCALE ON LAYER 1

>>26992476
BCH chink scam, BSV chink scam 3

>>26995149
brainlet

>>26991723
>Is Bitcoin going to be the only winner in the Crypto world?
no

>>26991723
crypto is done for. will go down with the big exchanges in march.

>>26994593
Anon, i like eth a lot but I'm new to crypto. Any good learning resources? I understand the basics of the underlying technology but theres a gap

Should I buy rn or wait for a dip?

>>26992235
>layer 2 is necessary
LMAO HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE A FUCKING RETARD

>>26995276
>decentralized exchanges
you sweet innocent child

>>26995481
I buy every paycheck without looking at the price
my average buy is 7.8k
it doesn't matter when you buy, just buy and hold for 10 years
AND MOVE YOU BTC OUT OF EXCHANGES

>>26995479
Satoshi Nakamoto bitcoin whitepaper.
That's all it takes to go down the rabbit hole.

After st*cks showed (((face)))? No way
Crypto is new stock market, but with more freedom and more gainz

>>26995340
ironically you are the brainlets

/biz/ thinks crypto is magic

>>26995235
You think it'll pump when America wakes up?

>>26995171
mutual / index funds are going to drag your returns really far down.
I would unironically liquidate all of your equities and go balls deep into crypto
know your risks to the upside and to the downside.
Get your ducks in a row now and if we hit $43k or $30k whichever comes first just pile all in. From there just wait for 20-30% pullbacks

>>26995149
super brainlet

>>26995276
L1 scaling is a L2 capacity multiplier

ETH will have orders of magnitude more throughput, and has infinitely more utility

And with all this said, all the L2 research efforts are IN THE ETHEREUM ECOSYSTEM you dumb fucking idiot - there is an LN equivalent on ETH already, but guess what, nobody cares about it - rollups is how we'll scale

PSA: BTC IS TRASH, IT HAS BEEN FOR YEARS, IT IS DOING NOTHING TO CHANGE THIS FACT

>>26991723
Bitcoin for crypto.
GME for stocks.

The first meme is always the most successful one.

>>26995522
layer 1 data cannot be deleted, they are permanent records, stored in a crazy redundant way (hundred thousands of nodes)
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU STORE 50 THOUSAND COPIES OF 100 BILLIONS TRANSACTIONS PER DAY?
fucking moron, decentralized system are inherently unscalable
let's take again Solana example, 60k tps, HOW THE FUCK DO YOU VALIDATE AND STORE ALL THIS SHIT WITHOUT BECOMING CENTRALIZED? PRO TIP, YOU CAN'T
HELLO??? WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!

>>26995481
it's going up really fast, and if it breaks the all time high (40k) it probably wont stop any time soon, Dollar Cost Averaging is always the best bet (buy some now, then buy some later, to catch different prices instead going all in)

>>26991723
Yes correct.
All authists and geeks will finally make it and the world will be a better place.

>>26992576

It would alpear btc is great for the consistent +/-10% for the foreseeable future. Other coins are for the +100x or -100x gamble

>>26994593
Learn to read sweetie. Im actually agreeing with you, but youre too dumb to realize the meaning of your own post.
BTC baselayer will be outpriced for normies.
(This will only be available for account settlements between banks, extremely large money transfers)
BTC LN will be outpriced for normies
(This will only be available for large aggregate payments such as banks/payment processord/exchanges (kraken implemented ln this Q)

The normie will likely use a btc-derived-token issued by afforementioned parties. Square cash app or bakkt payment processing comes to mind. Btc "token payments" will be tested for starbucks in Q3/4. Ofcourse nobody will actually pay directly on btc chain, this will be collected in aggregates and logged at certain intervals on LN or baselayer, depending on size and need.
If you think this is difficult to understand this is basicly how the us dollar works too. Look up fedwire of the federal reserve and how many "transactions per second" they process on a daily basis lmao.
There, i know you are a fucking swine and dont understand a word im saying, so enjoy the slop they feed in your trough, DONT get rich like us, and suck cock on the street you pathetic atheist dogfucker.

>>26994593
>underlying asset will have actual demand
it won't because no one wants the fucking p2p systems. even the fucking filesharing is dominated by client-server model. humans themselves are pathetic beta fags with a few alphas running the show, and technology emulates this.

only time p2p is useful is when you wanna do illegal shit. which is, unsurprisingly, the only area that saw buttcoins used as anything but speculative ponzi.

>>26995522
>RETARD

>>26995875
Cardano worked out a pretty good system with incredibly low transaction rates

>>26995875
>HOW THE FUCK DO YOU STORE 50 THOUSAND COPIES OF 100 BILLIONS TRANSACTIONS PER DAY?
1 TB hard drive per node. Should last a year. Then upgrade by adding a 4 TB one next year.

Is now a good time to buy one btc now that I can afford it

>>26996167
Yeah but altcoins are literally ngmi

I don't know how anyone is going to be holding equities with any sense of confidence after what just unfolded with the whole GME / AMC fiasco
Jews will literally (((shut it down))) on you if you are making more money than them
Meanwhile you have big names in the crypto community coming out in support of the retail investor.
It's definitely a bode of confidence when the Winklevoss bros come on to CNBC and basically say, 'yeah fuck wall st'
The writing is on the wall. Equities are overbought, over manipulated, and due for a big correction. It's possible this is the catalyst to see more and more retail move out of equities and into crypto

>>26996207
>buy one btc
NOT YOUR KEY NOT YOUR COIN DUMBASS

>>26996032
This is actually it, but only 140 IQ and above can understand.

Thanks fren

>>26996350
AND HOW WILL YOU TRADE BTC ? BY PACKETRADIO YOU DUMB FUCK ?

>>26996207
Buy 1 BTC, put on a hardware wallet, come back 5 years later and retire.

Easy

>>26996207
Normies... normies don't get it.
You can buy .00000001 BTC for less than 1 cent USD.
Wake up.

>>26994593
>L2 scalability is dependent on L1 scalability;
it is but it's exponential. l2 sales exponentially with l1 block space l1 scales linearly with block size.

>>26995850
>ETH will have orders of magnitude more throughput, and has infinitely more utility
nobody can predict the future but eth is also well positioned
>And with all this said, all the L2 research efforts are IN THE ETHEREUM ECOSYSTEM you dumb fucking idiot - there is an LN equivalent on ETH already, but guess what, nobody cares about it - rollups is how we'll scale
L2 research on ETH is great, I agree, but it is happening on BTC as well, just because you don't follow it doesn't mean it isn't happening
>PSA: BTC IS TRASH, IT HAS BEEN FOR YEARS, IT IS DOING NOTHING TO CHANGE THIS FACT
wrong, LN/RGB are being built slowly but with sanity and stability in mind, without yolo defi hacks muh andre cronje shitcoin that does nothing and boom 300M marketcap
Btw, I got 100 ETH as suicide stack, but that's less than 20% of my BTC holdings

>>26996454
you are the fucking normi !
-exchanges done for
-internet controlled by alphabet

>>26996032
BTC base layer won't even be relevant, which is why your rambling mess of a take belongs in the trash

literally nobody in the real world gives a fuck about BTC; it's a ponzi scheme riding on a collective delusion that crypto is the future, disregarding the fact that BTC will never bring that future, ETH will

>>26996426
Trading is not onchain retard, and BTC will be only a store of value replacing gold and all the boomer scams.

>>26996598
you need internet for this to work. hello ?

>>26996032
Incorrect.
A $1 USD satoshi would mean BTC price of 1 million.
BTC will always be accessible once normie realizes you can buy fractional BTC.
They.
Don't.
Know that.
BTC will always

This is the closest thread I could find to ask a question.

I understand blockchain technology for the most part and why it is important. What I do not understand are how currency tokens factor into this and why they are actually useful. What makes Bitcoin, ripple, binance, or even doge coin a useful currency. To me it doesn't seem secure. You can't physically hold crypto. If whatever wallet you have your crypto in goes down how do you get your money? What is stopping people who actually control the coins doing shady shit and defrauding people? With a bank if it goes tits up I am backed by the government and my money is safe. If binance goes tits up how do you get to your tokens?

I guess I'm just a confused old man because I just don't understand any of this. From my understanding crypto isn't being used for anything at high speed with global volume scales like wire transfers. Any papers or videos that I can look into that actually makes a case for crypto that can convince me that it is more than a new casino for people bored with the Wall Street casino.

>>26996426
Jezus fucking christ the absolute state of nocoiners

>>26996554
>nobody can bring the future
obviously not what the fuck

but if 99% of research and pioneering happens in the ETH ecosystem, and the community isn't complacent being a "store of value" (hahahaha what a fucking disgusting copout for shit throughput), so it's actually moving toward solutions

BTC is done. It's an eventuality.

>>26996571
again, ETH is cool, but it has a 72% premine and economics keep changing depending on Vitalik mood swings
ETH can do a lot of nice stuff, but it's not money

>>26996791
>BTC is done
that's a very stupid statement

I just bought $1500 of Bitcoin JUUUST now. Am I fucked?

>>26991723
no. defi, DEX have already proven their value in the world.

>>26996781
>absolute state nobrainers
internet infrastructure not controlled by you
wallets software not controlled by you
smartphone and smartphone os not controlled by you

>>26996794
>premine
EFFECTIVE DISTRIBUTION IS SAME AS BITCOIN, STOP PARROTING MEMES

>its not money
dumb tired platitudes

if it swims like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck

it's even better than money, because:
1) deflationary/low inflation soon
2) staking provides interest on holdings at little cost
3) ACTUAL REAL WORLD DEMAND

ETH IS A SUPERSET OF BTC, GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS

>>26996571
>literally nobody in the real world gives a fuck about BTC
The richest man in the world literally put Bitcoin on his twitter bio today. How does this make you feel blackboi?

>>26996794
>again, ETH is cool, but it has a 72% premine and economics keep changing depending on Vitalik mood swings
This. Also ETH 2 could fail.
It could fail via catastrophic bug, scaling issues, unforeseen consequences.
It's a technology company promising incredible amount of new features unproven at scale.

>>26996725
No, rising transaction fees will price out the normie plebs because limted tx and more market cap.
And thats a good thing.

>>26996896
Might lose a few hundred bucks in the short term. Long term no.

That said, how poor would you have to be if losing $1500 means you're "fucked" lmao.

>>26996979
look, tomorrow Vitalik might wake up, write a post on medium on how communism is based, and then implement an EIP to distribute ETH to niggers
YOU CAN'T DO THIS ON BTC
AND THIS IS WAY WAY MORE VALUABLE FOR ME

>>26996896
>buying at the top of a moon
When will they fucking learn

>>26997095
A future BTC automated market maker (e.g. uniswap) should be able to keep transaction fees at bay.

>>26997013
DOGSHIT FUD

it doesn't matter if they fail, what matters is they try better than everyone else - either sharding and rollups work, or crypto remains unusable crap

>>26997245
could also use rubic. exchange
would be same bullshit

>>26997131
Oldfags remember the eth and ethclassic debacle. They rolled the chain back after a sizable early hack. Technically, eth is thus illigitimate.

Debating on fundamentals is a distraction. Just play the market.

Just bought $3k worth of BTC at a little under $37K. I'm honestly sort of FOMOing in but it's been a long time coming.

>>26997333
yes play the meme game as long as its possible

>>26997269
It's not fud. You just said it:
>try better than everyone else
ETH 2 could actually fail.
Does sharding work at scale?
You don't know.
I don't know.
We will see.
Throw in catastrophic bugs with all the new features.
It could fucking blow homie.
Don't shoot the messenger.

>>26992902
There is not one cooling thing out there to play with in Bitcoin as a end user, prove me wrong.

>>26997131
>>26997325
HOW IS THIS FORUM SO STUPID AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

unironically plebbit is better for any niche topic, because FUCK ME I have endured half a decade of misinformation and crypto illiteracy here

ETH WAS NEVER ROLLED BACK, IT WAS SURGICAL STATE CORRECTION, E.G. NO LEGITIMATE TRANSACTIONS WERE EVER REVERTED

FOR ALL INTENDS AND PURPOSES ETH is as secure and censorship resistant as BTC - NOBODY except bagholding ponzi shills care about the properties you guys care about

NO COMPANY will ever say "nah, lets not use ETH, it's not censorship resistant", BECAUSE IT CLEARLY IS

some guy said pearls before swine: THISi s the realest take you'll ever see on 4chan

>>26997449
Store of value. About as exciting as index funds. Works, over time.

>>26997445
ETH2 is such a stupid meme because they are updating ETH to PoS.

It'd make better sense to have ETH stay PoW and ETH2 PoS as two ecosystems but now they are doing a replacement that'll only end up splitting the community.

I hope Vitalik is aware of that.

>>26997333
>Debating on fundamentals is a distraction
t. degenerate gambler that will lose it all doing margin trading on an unregistered exchange

>>26997581
bitcoin has no value its an old memecoin

>>26992701
>the entire /biz/

You simply must go back.

>>26997581
BUT ETH DOES IT BETTER, LOLLLLLLLLLL

>>26997564
>ETH WAS NEVER ROLLED BACK, IT WAS SURGICAL STATE CORRECTION

>>26991723
Is Netscape still your default browser?

Bro, BTC is only going up because of all the WSB and GME drama, its gona go down so u better just sell

>>26997633
Agreed but....
He has already promised the fucking moon, eventual bringing in ETH, etc.
Any of the new features could cause catastrophic failure at scale, bugs, etc.
Don't like the truth anons?
It's true.
Add in no cap on supply, high inflation rate, and inability to easily audit....

>>26991723
No, it's anti-environmentalist and doesn't scale.

>>26997564
when Vitalik will be participating to WEF conferences, announcing ETH 3.0 will be addressing inequality and gender gap by introducing the global world taxation directly on ETH 3.0 with the EIP66666 you will really regret

>>26998064
kek!

>>26998015
>it's anti-environmentalist
no it's not.

>>26997682
Hard to cope nocoiner?

>>26997750
retarded
>>26998005
retarded
>>26998064
retarded
>>26997633
and also retarded

>>26998379
This is anon losing the debate.

>>26998320
no

>>26996762
Exchanges can potentially steal your coins, this is why there are private wallet apps that are safe and secure, or even hardware wallets.

>From my understanding crypto isn't being used for anything at high speed with global volume scales like wire transfers
Big transactions are okay, the problem is scalability. Some coins do this better than others, bitcoin for example has a very low Tx/sec rate because the consensus protocol is very cumbersome. Other consensus protocol employing validators or PoS can potentially achieve much higher Tx/sec ratios.

Scalability is bitcoin's biggest problem towards it becoming a currency (alongside price volatility but this isn't really a technical issue).
The lightning network is a proposal that could help bitcoin increase its transaction output to potentially infinity, through the establishment of payment channels. Aka 2 parties can have multiple transactions but only their final balance is added to the blockchain. However it's not that big yet.

Another way to increase transaction rate in bitcoin would be to increase blocksize, but that would hurt the decentrilization aspect.

>>26995149
Imagine this level of intelligence is something you have to live with forever.
I guess the mercy is he doesn't know how stupid he actually is.

>>26998561
no, you're just too fucking retarded to understand that I already dumpstered every point you have tried to make

all that is left for me to do is continue to point out how fucking stupid you are

>>26998379
luckily we are free to choose
if you like eth, buy eth
again, I have 100 ETH locked away, I like eth overall, I like the progress on L2, I like zk rollups and so on
but I like more btc cause there is no gay commie unicorn-dressed pro-immigration soi leftist authority deciding how to change at runtime the tokenomics
that's why I'm 80/20 BTC/ETH
/thread

Bitcoin, Ethereum, EWT, and Zenon.

>>26992418
Technically, gold is already gold 2.0. So, bitcoin is gold 3.0.

>>26998820
>private wallet apps
closed source apps
on closed source os
lol

>>26998994
If gold isn't gold 1.0, what is?

>>26998959
all money you ever made or will make from crypto is blind luck, because your rationale is not founded on anything but maxi memes

>put ur money wer u want
no shit, that's why I am 100% ETH and when I am given my salary I always opt to have it paid 100% in ETH

t. someone who isn't retarded and loves money

>>26999023
there are many open source wallets

bitcoin has been nerfed by blockstream. there is no way bitcoin has the bandwidth to cover all of the worlds transaction needs

>>26997449
www.etleneum.com
@lntxbot in telegram
fucking the legacy financial system by simply existing. how much more fun do you need?

>>26999276
on closed source os
using google owned internet

>>26999264
my rationale says ETH tokenomics changed multiple times, and it will likely change again in the future
AND THAT'S A FACT

>>26995118
clueless and retarded. gtfo.

>>26998959
it's worse than that. eth is a fucking pedo cult

>>26997564
>ETH WAS NEVER ROLLED BACK, IT WAS SURGICAL STATE CORRECTION

>>26995149
if you believe this you are legit retarded

>>26999479
stability is irrelevant if your stable state is DOGSHIT, this is KINDERGARDEN TIER LOGIC

EVERYONE who is in ETH knows it's undergoing changes; IT'S THE ENTIRE REASON YOU BUY IT - THE POTENTIAL. BTC HAS NO POTENTIAL ON CURRENT TRAJECTORY. KEY DIFFERENCE, SIMPLE CONCEPT.

AND THAT'S A FACT

fucking cringe brainlet

>>26991723
yes. every other coin is just shit except eth

>>26997564
>stops your trading

>>26999510
try me, you fucking maxi npc

>>26999934
>stability is irrelevant
WOW BRO YOU KEEP ESCALATING

>>26999934
And this "eth" youre speaking about, is he in the room with you now?

>>27000072
you wouldn't get it and I don't have the time.

>>27000121
stop talking past me you peabrained idiot

>>27000165
fuck off schizoposter

>>26999934
>BTC HAS NO POTENTIAL ON CURRENT TRAJECTORY.
the current trajectory takes us to the moon. i couldn't care less about the next mission right now.

>>26999934
The BTC base layer is a finished project.
It's finished.
The ETH 2 base layer is introducing tons of new features. Could any of these new features blow up, not scale, introduce bugs, cause unforeseen consequences?
As anon stated here >>26999479
Will ETH tokenomics change in the future?
Yes to all of the above.
Allocate and rebalance appropriately.

>>26992576
>When I bought some doge coins yesterday, bitcoin was at 33k. Now it's at 36k. How of ten does this happen?

Because only whales/institutions kept the price low by selling their own coins, and now don't sell anymore. And since there are so few retail investors selling their coins, they price goes up because the supply is now naturally low.

>>27000368
Vitalik, lay low with the child pornography man...

>>26991723

>>26991723
Anyone who actually uses the crypto ecosystem knows what a pain in the ass it is to do anything with bitcoin, to the point where people need to cope with bullshit like WBTC just so they can finally do DEX or DeFi shit with it.

BTC is good at what it does, but crypto as a whole is capable of a lot of stuff that BTC simply cannot. The idea that there can only be one crypto is a shortsighted maxi cope

>>26993064
I am just learning this after trying this month.
Don't do it.
I made 2 grand after 3 stressful weeks and have lost it all after shorting before elons fucking tweet

>>26991855
Objectively wrong. Bitcoin is code complete and undergoes basically maintenance at this point with the ultra-conservative devs being very mindful of not rocking the boat too much.

Network effect cannot be understated in crypto. Look at all the forks and alt coins out there and none of them have a significant effect on what Bitcoin is or what it does.

Bitcoin is essentially becoming the reserve cryptocurrency. Not very innovative or flashy, but it is rock solid, and that's what you want for this role. Let other crypto play hard and fast with code.

>>27000388
>it's finished
yeah, it's finished, couldn't have said it better myself

>The ETH 2 base layer is introducing tons of new features. Could any of these new features blow up, not scale, introduce bugs, cause unforeseen consequences?
can you stop posting the same retarded post every 5 minutes, I addressed your argument instantly the first time you said it, and you just keep talking

>Will ETH tokenomics change in the future?
who cares? you have no reason to believe it will change for the worse, in fact, you have reason to believe it'll be deflationary and provide long term stability (something the BTC model doesn't have; you have no guarantee fees will be enough to secure the network)

bug?

>>27000368
I literally told you I'm 80/20 on BTC/ETH cause I value tokenomics stability and slow but safe and well tested tech progress more than wild experimentation and tokenomics changing every couple of years with rules decided by a couple of leftists, and you answer me stability is irrelevant

>>27000850
Yeah but what about the notion that the ETH 2 base layer is introducing tons of new features. Could any of these new features blow up, not scale, introduce bugs, cause unforeseen consequences?

>>27000850
>I addressed your argument instantly the first time you said it
Where did you address any of the points?
>who cares?
Lol. This guy.

>>27001004
Gmi

>>27001004
>slow but safe
reality: worthless vaporware

>well tested tech progress
reality: crickets, everything happens on ETH

>muh lefty politics
reality: they aren't lefty, they're overwhelmingly libertarian; I am literally IN THE ECOSYSTEM, unlike you

>>26991723
Yes. Every other cryptocurrency will eventually die and be absorbed into Bitcoin. There may be some that survive as a layer 2 solution to handle micropayments.

>>27000850
>Will ETH tokenomics change in the future?
>who cares?
ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED?
HOW THE FUCK DO I AM SUPPOSED TO STORE MY ENTIRE NETWORTH ON ETH THEN?

>>26991857
6.58

I hope we can enter 21 club one day

>>27001050
if they fail, crypto is useless anyway, so it's a meaningless distinction

AND THERE'S NO INDICATION IT WILL FAIL, BTW :-)

>>26991885
How does Tether have any effect on BTC price?

>>26997564
>HOW IS THIS FORUM SO STUPID

>ALL INTENDS AND PURPOSES

>>27001263
BY REALIZING THERE IS NO INCENTIVE ANYWHERE IN SIGHT TO CHANGE ISSUANCE IN ANY WAY THAT ISN'T FAVORABLE TO YOUR OWN NARRATIVE

FUCK ME you are retarded

Maybe one day transferring BTC will be instantaneous. And maybe one day wallets will have much more security and portability and can be used for anything from regular day-to-day shit to massive business transactions. Until then, we're just speculating and betting on the future.

>>27001601
>BY TRUSTING AN AUTIST GUY TO NOT SCREW YOU UP
fixed, I don't trust vitalik nor eth devs

>>26996725
$1 satoshi would mean 1 BTC = $100 million.

Anybody here ever heard the words "Side-channel attack" ? Crypto done. BTC moreso.

>>27001790
>trusting one autist
you would be trusting thousands of researchers and developers, you dumbfuck

>>26996762
>You can't physically hold crypto
Your crypto is simply an entry on the public ledger, called the blockchain. That's where it lives. You hold the private key which allows you to move that bitcoin around the blockchain.

>>27001772
>Maybe one day transferring BTC will be instantaneous
just download a lightning wallet and try it out m8... the problem is not on your side the problem is almost no vendor on this planet accepts bitcoin.

>>26995235
Sell signal

>>27001941
>you would be trusting
dropped

>>27001857
if you knew what that means you would know it's a huge nothing-burger. it involves physical devices and measuring electric currents and timings to gain information you don't normally have.

it has absolutely nothing to do with crypto. unless you buy a ledger or something.

>>27001941
Vitalik will be part of WEF, Davos forum, trilateral commission, Bilderberg group or some similar shit
Then you will all regret when a new EIP introducing a 20% inflation to rebalance wealth inequality in africa is forced upon you
I DON'T TRUST ANYONE, ETH TOKENOMICS MODEL IS NOT FINAL, THUS IT'S NOT WHAT I CONSIDER MONEY
CLEAR? NOW FUCK OFF

>>26997633
If you read his blog, you will see that Vitalik is well aware of everything.

>>27002261
>doesn't trust the biggest body of crypto researchers and developers, who do everything completely transparently for you to see
>fully trusts in a vaporware ponzi scheme
guess when I knew you were retarded?

>>26997646
I'm sure BTC and some other coins will be actually used some day, but don't get too involved. Your purpose right now is to make money rationally while others are doing emotional decisions on coins they have fallen in love with.

>>27002415
honestly if I knew you were mentally ill earlier I might have never replied

call me when you check back into reality

ETH BTC LINK

-=sTAt=-

>>26991723
>reddit wants /biz/ to explain everything to him
Just buy BTC and ETH

>buy $100 in bitcoin
>transfer to wallet
>pay $5 in fees
>have $95 left
wtf

>>26991723
no, it will stay number one (maaaaybe someday becoming no 2 after ETH ) because it is the unit of vaue of the whole crypto system, and will fulfill it's usecase as digital gold.

Tokens related to actual blockchain usage will expldoe as adoption grows: (Ethereum number 1 by a lot, big roles for Polkadot, probably Cardano and maybe Elrond) and most other blockchains will be vaporware shit. Tokens for financial and IoT services will grow a lot, and what stocks is will completely on blockchain tech in some 5-10 years.

>>27002299
kek have fun getting transparent

just bought 0.50 BTC @ peak b/c fomo

am i retarded?
>liquidated 99% of my crypto (approx 30k) for GME, AMC, etc.
>just put all my liquiditiy in BTC at todays peak
i am retarded /biz/, tell me i am retarded

>>27002921
what wallet are you using? that's ridiculously high fees.

>>27002921
>it's finished

>>27000830
Is this bait?

>>26991723
best place to buy bitcoin?

>>27003684
flat earth society - I think they're the types who have them

>>26995758
its happening right now

>>27003363
at this price when you could buy at 30k yeah you retarded can confirm

>>27003363
yes, this 25% pump is gonna blow off and dump back down a fair bit. Get out now

>>27002675
Don’t say I didn’t warn you

>>27002554
You are actually talking about BTC which is objectively the thing you describe but got tricked into thinking it‘s ETH

>>27004479
any other conspiracies you want to warn me about, Nostradamus?

>>27004498
dumb + wrong

>>26991723
in 2 years tops ETH will be the winner. Its just superior in all ways.

>>27003958
Good thing I bought after asking

Bitcoin will be worth money in the future as the digital gold, but to be blunt Bitcoin maximalists are retarded. There is incredible energy in the ETH ecosystem and defi. Eth will probably also go to the moon with btc, but if it doesn't then Avax or another chain will replace it as that layer. Still lots of trade with btc.

>>27004718
Look at trends
Social banning entire communities and deplatformization at any level
Stock brokerages blocking you from trading
Bank accounts freezing your account cause you have crypto
You can clearly see were we are going
PS: you you will eat ze bugs

>>27005299
Defi is going to have a much better ROI than Bitcoin this year for people that know what to invest in. This is just the beginning.

>>27002997
just educate yourself and come back then we talk

>>26997760
lmao

>>26991723
this card will tell you

>>26991723
kind of useless now the Doge is the standard and they both use the exact same tech

>>27005450
not risk adjusted.
nothing has the same roi as bitcoin risk adjusted.

>>27006130
For an unsophisticated investor that is probably true. Although I think eth is also easy and safe to invest in. For people that know what they are doing defi is going to explode and indeed already has. There are also x5 like QNT (actively used by the entire British government) that everyone is sleeping on.

Holy shit can all the newfags and redditors fuck off this board? Go to fucking reddit and read about your "bitcoin stocks" there fucking retards

>>27004718
Again, talking about yourself =) many, many people, actually the majority think bitcoin is better.

>>27002027
wrong. i bought my last computer with BTC. it took me a total of 3 minutes to find a vendor.

>>27005299
??? the ETH community is literally on the same side as you; "lefty-pol dictator" Vitalik himself literally tweeted about the deplatforming - seems like you can't get your story straight you incoherent moron

>>26997128
I'm poorer than him, but at least I bought $1000 yesterday.

You guys just wait until Chad Saylor's conference next week on Bitcoin for Corporations. You ain't seen nothing yet.

>>27007202
Based bud.

>>27003607
Nice argument, faggot.

Maxi here, it doesn't matter what you hold. We still live in this fiat world that boomers made. Expect to baghold for atleast 5-10 years before anything serious happens. Bitcoin will come out #1 & your shitcoin bags will ride the coat tails of the king. Rentcucks and those without assets will be our slaves. Till then just buy and hodl.

>>27009935
The thing is, it just doesn't make sense to be a maxi right now even if you are one in the true long term. You can easily use eth and defi to print bitcoin

>>27011175
I'm a low iq maxi, sub 70 iq. I'm too retarded.

>>26991723
No. There will be about 5 stable coins that pass it and then Ethereum will pass it. It should remain in the top 7 for awhile though.

>>27007730
how did you execute the transaction? BTC-ETH-LINK isn't implemented in normal real life yet so one of you probably had to take on delivery risk.

>>26991723
>mfw i'm gonna switch from forex trading to crypto trading

enough of the small potatoes money. it's time for big sucky sucky horse dick meat money.

>>27013553
Paid through some 3rd party site. Can't remember the name. tx was confirmed instantly and I paid like $2 in fees.

>>27006846
>For people that know what they are doing
so like 95% will get rekt definitely

>>27007730
nit wrong what percent do you think the retail places that accept btc are? 0% in my country 0.00000% just because you can buy random stuff with bitcoin as a curiosity like 1 place out of a million doesn't mean it's accepted.

>>27017166
>buying electronics is random stuff
stay mad nocoiner

>>26992365
>8 dollar fees
>Centralised Lightning network
>ASICS means all hashing power is in China
>Transparent ledger
It's not the future you high

>>26991723

Nothing has intrinsic value. All money is backed by Confidence. Confidence is a function of utility and likelihood of deprecation by competing money or other factors.

Gold is the best form of commodity money due to its physical properties. Winning out over seashells and such. Has somewhat limited utility inherent to all commodity money, but extremely high and stable confidence due to it's simple, eternal, self-contained nature as final payment, long track record, and lack of possible competitors. No gold 2.0 or hard forks of gold are coming.

Paper money is the second type, originally IOUs for gold, it essentially took over silver's role due to its utility. Later they severed the convertibility, an assertion by govt that their word was just as good as gold. It was not, hence gold remains money to those with no Confidence in govt. Currently the Dollar is the winner among the various types, due to inertia, utility, and greater confidence in US govt. High utility, but inherently as unstable and ephemeral as humans. The Dollar is currently losing confidence, soon to be replaced in the #1 spot.

Decentralized ledgers are the newest type. Get "digital gold" out of your head, this is marketing. It has little in common with commodity money. It has high utility in certain scenarios, but not as high as paper money. Hence no "mass adoption" event yet. Technological improvements may yet change that. The #1 is Bitcoin, held in place primarily by a first-mover advantage and a network effect not unlike social media. Low confidence, as it can lose #1 with little warning to competitor(s) with greater utility, and likely will, as software is ever-changing. Issuers of paper money can and will make every effort to limit its utility, as it is a threat to their power. Unfortunately, this probably means its realm will remain illicit transactions for the time being. Drastic tech advances may give it enough utility to stage a popular revolt and take over, no signs of this yet.

>>26991723
It should not be since it is useless and ridiculously high fees. If simply as a store a value like gold, silver then it should be the only winner.

But for everyday use XLM, XRP, Chainlink have far better use cases, fast TPS and low fees.

So no Bitcoin will not be the only winner. IMHO Bitcoin should die simply due to the inferior tech and high fees.

The main motherfucking problem with BTC and the whole reason I never gave too much shit about it (since I knew about it many years ago), is that the fucker CAN BE REPLACED. I know it can't be replaced immediately but it can a) be hacked theoretically b) be replaced by a better one c) a government may say fuck off and make their own version.

>>27019566
Yeah basically, but everyone plugs their fingers in their ears about it. BTC could end up being the Yahoo of crypto 20 years from now potentially if something comes along that garners better adoption.

>>26991723
why is dogcoin mooning?

>>27018965
>The Dollar is currently losing confidence, soon to be replaced in the #1 spot.
What will replace it? The Euro?

>>26997128
how can you sound so insecure just by typing a few words, work on yourself bud you are sad but you could get better

>>26991885
Story is true but your numbers are wrong

>>27018965
Then confidence has intrinsic value
Checkmate, brainlet

>>27019566
>>27020878
you both just don't know what you're talking about.. how are you supposed to replace something that is trusted mainly because it's been working flawlessly for 10 years? and how can you prove something is unhackable better than providing the best incentive to hack it for ten years?
that's the real value of btc, and it can't be reversed unless you use a time machine to create your bitcoin killer in the past.

>>26996194
wat if the hard drives blow up? all ur bitcoin is gone then lol imagine buying fake money

>>27018778
it is an outlier and you know it.

>>27018897
>Centralised Lightning network
>taproot
pick one ignorant

>>27022383
actually your wallet is much smaller and you can backup it multiple times.>>26995875
>layer 1 data cannot be deleted

>>26995875
>layer 1 data cannot be deleted
hold my beer

>>27019566
brainlet
>is that the fucker CAN BE REPLACED
by who? btc is a free choice, and i decide btc is my money, my unit of account
>it can a) be hacked theoretically
nope
>be replaced by a better one
you cannot force me to use another shitcoin, it's a free choice
>a government may say fuck off and make their own version.
they will, and i will just ignore it, and keep converting my paycheck into btc, until i can find a job that pays directly in btc

>>27022084
don't have to kill it in the past when it's functionally dead in the present

>>27022878
>* XRP * HOLD MY BEER
lmao

>>26991723
PUT YOUR BTC ON DOGE RIGHT NOW, YOURE ON TIME FELLAS, AND HOLD TO DEATH

>>26991723
>get into crypto two years ago
>buy some BTC
>play around with trading and joining an pump and dump but eventually just keep it all in BTC and let it sit
>end up donating most of it
>check my Coinbase account six months later
>actually have like $25 worth of Bitcoin
Huh, I should probably buy more Bitcoin.

Also has anything happened with Kraken? I was trading on there and left it pretty much empty except for dust but now that I've logged back in after those two years, I have literally nothing, not even dust.

Btc is capped at 21 million, so I'd say there's a lot less room for fuckery there. Just remember, though, what crypto REALLY means. Google 'define crypto' and read the INFORMAL def. It'll be tied in to UBI, universal communist welfare state. That's the rub.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JS8CW6dq1I&t=17s

>>27021958
well the might of the USA armed forces is a good reason for inspiring confidence

>>27022988
I cannot articulate how fucking dumb you are.

>>27001268
Too late. The exit scam is closer than you an accumulate.

>>26991723
what we need is a shitcoin shake out. 20 or so coins will survive in the long run

>>27022988
are you trolling or just retarded? you can store incredible quantities of wealth on it without the need of a bank vault, yourself being the actual custodian of it, also you can send it everywhere for a very low fee.
You poorfags just don't get it, bitcoin isn't a currency anymore, no one cares about txs or block confirmation speed.

>>27005450
>know what to invest
>literally gambling on shitcoins

>>27022084
Governments can't lower the price enough to cause chaindeath spiral by mere bureocracy:

https://cryptobriefing.com/u-s-treasury-department-proposal-existential-threat-to-bitcoin/

Make ownership and mining illegal and watch it burn.

>>27024200
The market can support an unilimited number of fee earning protocols on ETh.

My view is that BTC will survive (as an SOV on eth), Eth will power the financial system, and you'll have various protocols built on top of it. Not a single ETH killer has any dapps built on them, and multiple protocols on ETH have billions in them earning their holders passive income. UNI AAVE SNX YFI are pretty clear segment leaders. Retards are gonna FOMO into PNDs but in my view these are about the only things with real value in the space. Eth infra like Link is also going to be around forever.

>>26991723
I have 50$, should I buy into btc?

Bitcoin does nothing now that blockstream fucked up the protocol. You can't buy anything with it, you can't do any smart contracts, you can't even cash out because the 1mb blocksize crowds the exit and fees soar when everyone wants to move it.
Store of value is a bullshit narrative, value is derived from use but you have retards saying bitcoin is a store of value because it's a store of value, circular reasoning by retards.
BSV is bitcoin as per the white paper, the original design which is what granted bitcoin it's initial value only it's had the limitations removed and become even more useful. The big brain move is to go all in on BSV as it's massively undervalued.
Holding BTC is a huge risk because any sudden drop in hashrate will have the network seize up due to the difficulty adjustment algorithm. 10 minute blocks become 30 minute blocks, this means reduced transaction capacity, reduced mining reward which leads to more hash leaving.
You guys have no clue what you're in for this year.

>>27018965
You are correct. The Problem with Bitcoin and any digital currency is that governements can switch off Powersupply, Internet or Mobile Networks. The Retards here just havent experienced this yet. In addition to that BTC and other cryptos can be tracked by big players to root out "unlawful" use. Cash and Gold/Silver however cant be tracked so it will always be #1

>>27025394
>holding gold, silver, monero, and a dank stash of rare memes

Am I going to make it?

>>27025394
based blockstream sent a bitcoin satellite up into space so we don't have to worry about gov niggers cutting the internet.

>>26994593
Look up CKB

>>26999934
I agree with your assessment that ETH has far greater upside potential than BTC. BTC is just going to be digital gold, whereas ETH is going to be the world's supercomputer.
However, that doesn't mean BTC has no potential left. Right now, it's like you're living as a hunter-gatherer in 6,000 BC. Other tribals are trading with bullshit like sea shells and pinecones. You're one of the first people to discover the cool-looking shiny yellow rock in the ground. Eventually it will become a stable store of value, but for right now, because so relatively few people adopt it and realize its value, it still has significant upside potential.

>>27024129
>>27024744
>Governments can't lower the price
are you a new hire shill? you don't even know how to write properly lmao
didn't ((they)) tell you that the tether fud is outdated already? you must be doing overtime fudding gme and btc at the same, but it actually splits your strength so you're going to get rekt on both your gme AND btc shorts today kek
>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-01/bitcoin-miner-is-scoring-700-profits-selling-energy-to-grid

>>27025980
There is another fuction of "money" - it is in essence a web of trust.
But is has no "value". You dont want the money - you want the goods. Produce them so you can sell them to trade for other goods. "Making it" is an esoteric mumbojumbo.

>>27026311
>robinhood
blockstream can be shut down by the goverment

>>27027171
the code is open source, anyone can take over from them.

>>27025980
The money you put into gold a decade ago would have made you a 8 figure net worth person if you instead put it into Bitcoin

Gold has so much emotion and out of date belief system making it out to be a lot more special than it actually is

I've been hearing about ETH for years and I NEVER understood how it literally works. I mean I do get that it can be used to buy computing time, but how exactly in practice (is there a website that shows it clearly and is using it?)?

is coinbase good for buying in europe with € ?

>>27027272
not only that but out of 600 active bitcoin developers only like 10 is blockstreams employee.

>>27027272
you know what this is ?

>>26992124
xrp, grt enter the chat

>>26995743
stay poor nigger

>>26997695
I was here before you, so you can fuck off

>>27027796
yeah, nice shifting the goal post. do you really think they will blow out satellites in an attempt to shut down bitcoin? the system is designed that it cannot be shut down. accept that.

>>26991723
Bitcoin is the Sears Robuck of Blockchain.

>>26991723
Like, how far into the future are we talking? The number of bitcoins that can be mined is finite thanks to the underlying tech, so eventually there will be a set number of them, and that's it.
My guess is that there will always be all kinds of crypto around, but Bitcoin will probably become the new gold standard, as it will eventually stabilize in value, at least compared to all the other sill actively mined currencies.

>>27028088
they WILL shut down the internet at some point
they are already doing this by firewalls, dns shennanigans, regulations and other bullshit.
if you are not using the right money they WILL make you use it. and crypto gives them the power to do this.
you will end up an eternal slave

Nope
LTO is the truth. Hearing it from a few different sources I trust, and at 50m mkt cap I’m very interested. Just sold a few linkies to get a stack

>>27003607
you are mentally handicapped

I see bitcoin has spiked a bit in the last few days, is it still safe to buy in and just hold for a long time?

During the great depression the US govt confiscated everyone's gold, except for a tiny amount they could have in personal jewelry. Although they can't confiscate Bitcoins, they can brand you a criminal for exchanging, trading, moving or buying into it I suppose, and they probably will, those fuckers.

>>27029056
take an "airplane" to switzerland open an account with a card sell bitcoin locally head home, life is sweet.

>>27027335
you need eth for buying shitcoins

When quantum computers come out crypto is fucked. For now it’s all a game.

>Redditors wanting debates...awesome.

Just give it to me straight bros, is there any chance at all that bitcoin goes down the drain forever or it's here to stay?

I don't really want x100 or even x10 just confidence in it's existence moving forward 10 or 20 years

>>26991723
no, bitcoin is the most impressive financial surveillance network the world has ever known. it’s an expensive collectible that’s not acceptable for commerce. twitter for your bank account. cannot wait to short BTC’s 2022 meltdown / bear market

>>27029985
explain pls

>>27030414
It can hack everyone’s private keys

>>27029985
its already done. bitcoin takeover by chinese was in 2015. when i heard it is moonin again i knew i had to come back here for sum lolz

>>27003684
Coinmama

>>27024034
you can't articulate anything; didn't we already establish that?

>>27024245
>very low fee
lol

>bitcoin isn't a currency anymore,
agree, it's a ponzi

>no one cares about txs or block confirmation speed.
actually literally everyone cares about it except bagholders who need copium narratives to prop up the price

>it's not a bug, it's a feature
kekw