/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>26499234
You mean crypto-communism?

>>26499259
>Give everybody money
>Money gets spent
>People thrive
>Economy thrives
Yeah, communism sounds gay

>>26499323
Now tell me what happens before the everyone gets money.

>>26499357
>before the everyone
based retard poster

>>26499366
I meants to type it in another way and fucked it up when I rewrote it

>>26499357
>Tax those above certain income threshold
>Redistribute that among those below that threshold
What is so spooky about this to you?

>>26499385
>I meants to type it
based retard poster

>>26499393
Probably the part where I don't consent to my income stuffing your fat fucking face with chicken tendies.

>jews keep pushing the UBI meme absolutely fucking EVERYWHERE ALL THE FUCKING TIME
wow, I'm sure it will be great for me

>>26499323
Enjoy getting stationed as porn fluffer.

>>26499234
So is INFI

would we get 2000$ a month tax free maybe permanently riden with biden
I'm okay with that rent, car insurance, food, medical insurance, phone bill, electric bill done

>>26499234
Coming to surf.finance soon. You will all be able to claim rights btw.

>>26499393
What's the threshold?

>>26499234
Urethral Botox Injections?

>>26499234
AYO CRACKA SHUT DA FUCK UP AND HAND OVA DA IFFIRUMS!! FUCK YOU TALMBOUT?

>>26499234
ewww
>giving free tendies for worthless unproductive goys

>>26499471
Unlimited boobie images

>>26499234
Would literally make crypto moon non-stop to 50 trillions

>>26499393
>Redistribute
Okay, Marx.

>>26499404
That was a fucking typo.

What's inevitable is the government nationalizing key industries such as farming, weapons manufacturing, clothes manufacturing, etc. And then giving everyone a basket of goods so that everyone has what they needs.

>>26499430
Then don't ever complain about the country's 3rd-world status when the solution is in your hands.
>>26499468
Could very easily be worked out arithmetically using available data and statistics.

What selective pressures will emerge from UBI?

>>26499627
mathematics does not do well to account for institutional graft.

>>26499234
kill yourself you son of a whore

>>26499393
Billionaires make like 1 $ of income per year. You're gonna tax the poor lads that codemonkey at Google? That's not gonna raise enough money for José González and his 5 children you know.

>>26499726
High sex drive high birth rate
low care for children
So like what we have now but faster at destroying our countries genetic makeup

>>26499479
Yes make those unproductive worthless drug addicted not me humans sleep on the streets

>>26499393

>>26499234
>he says while not understanding that as soon as you dissent they'll take it away from you again
Yes, master! i'll happily eat your shit and thank you for it!

I honestly love the idea of a UBI. The wealthier paying taxes that directly gets sent to poor people who can have nicer lives and improve their lives sound noble. How can anybody be against that? But there are a couple of problems with it.

1. Americans gate paying taxes. Medicare for all seems obvious. So obvious it's amazing we don't already have it. But we don't. Why? People would rather pay premiums and get fucked by private insurance.

2. America has a race problem. There are lots of poor white people. But there is also lots of poor Latin people and blacks. The white middle class and the white rich folks will not like the idea of paying for other people.

3. If people make money and no longer need a job to survive. Lots of people won't want to have a job. Nothing wrong with redistributing money, sounds nice in theory but it will change peoples behavior. Maybe a sunset law and have trials of it showing what people do when they have money.

>>26499934
>Billionaires make like 1 $ of income per year
Tax capital gains above $1 or 2 million at close to income tax rates.
>>26499947
>high birth rate
Doesn't make much sense. Higher incomes are correlated with lower birth rates.
>>26500864
>If people make money and no longer need a job to survive. Lots of people won't want to have a job.
It's quite unlikely the UBI would be high enough to cover more than the most basic needs. Most people want more than that.
>trials of it showing what people do when they have money
A number of trials already show it doesn't have a negative effect on employment, and potentially even has a mild positive effect.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income#

>>26501340
>UBI will create an environment of higher income and not a lower caste of undesirables who just mope around and fuck without contributing
>this will magically be sustainable over time

the common supporter of UBI is unironically a good argument for why UBI might not be a good idea
just in this thread we have
>doesn't understand rich people aren't rich from income
>doesn't understand rich people don't realise cap gains
>doesn't understand the more punitive taxation become, the more likely rich people domiciliate their financial activities in tax havens
>doesn't understand giving money to everyone creates hidden inflation and prices out the poor out of the things that really matter through asset inflation, i.e. houses
>doesn't know or refuses to acknowledge we have ample data showing large swaths of the population simply stop working with welfare or UBI
>doesn't understand increasing dependance on the government ensures you have less power to decide and contest what your government does
the list goes on. UBI might happen, and it won't have any of the positive properties your narrow-minded and self-oriented thinking leads you to believe

>>26501479
People fucking about without doing anything for the world around them is sustainable if the government literally gives them money to do so

>>26501677
Play that out over 3 generations you nit. The government can't print money forever

>>26501479
>lower caste of undesirables who just mope around
Unlikely.
Read again:
It's quite unlikely the UBI would be high enough to cover more than the most basic needs. Most people want more than that. A number of trials already show it doesn't have a negative effect on employment, and potentially even has a mild positive effect.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income#
>low care for children
Also makes little sense. Increased financial security and disposable income and lower stress levels are conducive to better environments to raise children in.
>>26501799
>The government can't print money forever
Don't print money, tax.

>>26499234
Not for USD. UBI is basically social security.

>>26501340
>Tax capital gains above $1 or 2 million at close to income tax rates.
This will fuck middle class the most. Billionaires can simply take their money and their industries away, and any non-braindead country will receive them with open arms.

>>26499393
Based. Everyone else can pay their taxes, not me tho. Fuck taxes.

>>26502804
>This will fuck middle class the most
Middle class aren't earning over 1 million a year in capital gains. And retirees don't pay capital gains taxes on retirement accounts if that's your angle.
>Billionaires can simply take their money and their industries away
The intuition that they will do this isn't really accurate here. Ranging over time from 40% to 15%, the capital gains tax rate has not been a major factor in economic growth, from a right-leaning source - "[lowering capital gains tax] does not appear to spur economic growth significantly. But lower rates foster tax avoidance strategies and complexity." taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-effect-lower-tax-rate-capital-gains

>>26499430
Too bad because it's happening regardless.

>goys complaining about free stuff
They've done a number on Americans

>>26499234
Yeah they're raising capital gains tax. Have fun giving half your stack away retard

>>26500864
These are legit issues with UBI in the US. It would be incredibly unpopular in a sizeable demographic of people. However it's still going to happen eventually because:

>AI and automation is going to make so many jobs obsolete, including mid-level white collar jobs that there simply won't be a job for everyone. As much as libertarians and 4chan autists think people should just die in the street if they don't have money, the government and society won't accept this happening

>The government, corporation and the elite don't want people to save money, especially if it means people retiring early or working less. They want it pumped back into the economy. Taxing higher earners and giving it to neets and tyrone ensures 100% of it gets spent target than invested.

>>26499627
>third world are third wold because of money and not genes
ngmi

superior genes lead to superior cultures leading to superior economy.

>>26501648
this. Wealthy people don't have big bank accounts they have big portfolios

>>26499323
>money becomes worthless because everyone has it
>dragging yourself out of poverty and servitude becomes that much more difficult

you're a kid, and you have kid thoughts

>>26499234
>he wants to be a ubislave

>>26504188
>doesn't understand how inflation works
you're a kid, and you have kid thoughts

>sorry goyim, your Googbookitterzon score says you're an evil white supremacist transphobe. We're going to have to stop your UBI immediately and drain the rest of your USDD account too. Can't be having our tax dollars support terrorism, can we? :^)

>>26504285
Inflation will make money worthless dumbass, why do you think most crypto is deflationary?

UBI would either be so low that it the poor would have a third world tier living standard and people with a job would barely notice the extra income, or it would be so high that taxes would have to be ridiculously high to pay for it.
Better off just giving the unemployed and handicapped gibs.

>>26504791
>implying ubi would cause significant inflation
>still doesn't know how inflation works

We dont really have a choice, most sub 110 iq will be unemployable in 20 years

>>26499440
>>jews keep pushing the UBI meme absolutely fucking EVERYWHERE
The jews want to keep UBI away from you, lol.
Why do you think it will never be a thing in america, a country ruled by them?

>>26499234
get a job you lazy bum

>>26504812
Unironically most logical post

>>26499455
>Car and phone
Not necessities, you get three meals, water, electricity and public internet. You should be grateful that is more than what the majority of human beans currently has.

>>26499234
only if UBI recipients are all sterilized

>>26501648
There is no data that people will stop working with UBI. Every study I’ve seen was based on conditional welfare payments

>>26499393
all the people that make money will leave or stop working and there goes your economy

>>26505361
you don't need unlimited amounts of water and electricity, you don't need internet and 3 meals a day. 1 meal is more than enough

>>26505377
>conditional welfare payments
that's what a wage is

>>26505399
exactly, nobody will have motivation to do anything so nothing gets done.
important things getting left undone leads to collapse of everything

But I am not a funky bitcoin runner, have crushed my purse with it in 2019

>>26505367
based

>>26501648
This is the smartest person in this thread

I can’t believe the amount of low level IQ people in here.

>>26499463
kek I was wondering if a surfchad commented in this thread but please remeber that shilling is illegal until feb 1

A UBI could be a good thing if we used it to replace the welfare state. The welfare state encourages laziness by only giving money to people who don’t work enough.

We already have inflation because of welfare spending, so any UBI paid for by reducing welfare would not cause an increase in inflation.

>>26499627
>Very easily worked out.
Then do it and save everyone from being miserable you commie.

>>26501648
>>doesn't know or refuses to acknowledge we have ample data showing large swaths of the population simply stop working with welfare or UBI
But this is a lie, it's not disinformation. Experimentations in Canada, Finland and other countries have shown that it is completely the opposite.

>>26501648
>doesn't understand rich people aren't rich from income
I do
>doesn't understand rich people don't realise cap gains
Bezos cashed out $10 billion of stock this year.
>doesn't understand the more punitive taxation become, the more likely rich people domiciliate their financial activities in tax havens
I do. Taxing capital gains at closer to income level is not particularly punitive, and conversely lower rates is what encourages tax avoidance.
>asset inflation
More people can afford houses = rise in house prices, who knew?
>ample data showing large swaths of the population simply stop working with welfare or UBI
Made up claim. A number of trials already show it doesn't have a negative effect on employment, and potentially even has a mild positive effect.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income#
>increasing dependance on the government ensures you have less power to decide and contest what your government does
Another made up claim. Stronger democracies than the US have much broader social safety nets.

>>26499323

>>26505377
Let's see, were the studies you've seen done by "the experts"?

>>26501799
>The government can't print money forever
Well you say that...

>>26505844
If you consider Spain a "stronger democracy", whatever that means, then you must be aware that people that gets "saved" by these social safety nets become government parasites that need to vote for the party that will keep the gibs and wants them to keep being poor so they can keep being dependant on the government. About half of the population in Spain is maintained by the other half.

>>26505844
This. The dude is actually smart. It doesn't have any negative effect on employment, and likely a positive effect overall.
>>26505947
>>26505694
You are retards or want to push this narrative forever because it fits your interests. UBI isn't just fun, it's a necessity, it will happen, it will make the job market healthier, will reduce friction, will increase competivity and probably accelerate growth as a lot of startups are going to pop, more services are going to see the light of the day, and as the amount of worked time /week will get reduced, people will have more time&money to spend on new services.

>>26506058
Who mentioned Spain?
Try nordic countries, australia, canada

>>26499234
ubi will come 100% but sadly only after it is basically too late you see the amount of dumb fucks in this thread that dont understand the bigger picture.
>MUH I DONT WANT TO PAY FOR NIGGERS
>MUH MY MAC MANSION
but they will loose their job sooner rather than later because of automation. just imagine what will be going on once all the truckers loose their job. cab drivers and deliverie cucks next how many jobs is that? millions. then add to that all the call center jobs and god knows what can actually be automated. next thing you know all the idiots screaming ubi is bad will have no job left and apply for the few remaining jobs with millions of others and stand at the food bank for hours. just watch how fast they will change their mind.
and I know a lot of people say:"ha my job is way to complex to get automated"
a) no it is not
b) it will hardly matter if it is if millions of people dont have a job anymore and come knocking on your door because you are the only one left with income.
there is litterally no way around ubi unless you want riots and plebs with pitchforks running around guilltining people. I am so fucking glad that I dont have to worry about all that shit because I dont need to work anymore. But unlike the low IQ retards in this thread I can see why ubi is the only solution for a "functioning" society within the next 10 years or so

>>26501828
UBI offering the bare minimum to survive is a good thing for everyone.
It would be reasonable price for global governments prohibiting the free use of land.

>>26506117
I get what you mean, but UBI won't be viable until the singularity happens. The problem being that our governments are fucking corrupt to the core. For an example, check Christine Lagarde, the fucking president of the ECB. So if yiu hoose to trust gov to handle UBI in a correct fashion, you are simply deluded.

UBI is indeed coming and the only answer to mass automatization. Industrial shift doesn't mean that the economy is going to decline, it's actually improving our lives. UBI will probably pump assets like crypto/gold to very high levels before it reaches equilibrium. But it's not necessary a bad news.

>>26506195
idiot.
ubi is not the problem or the solution
the problem is that only the stupid and the degenerates are breeding.
overpopulation of dumb, violent monkeys is the problem

mass sterilization is the only cure

>>26506288
>if you choose to trust gov to handle UBI in a correct fashion, you are simply deluded.
that's where you are probably right, doesn't mean it's a good enough excuse not to try. There will be many iterations. Maybe there will be pan-national UBI (maybe thanks to crypto) to make it more stable, who knows yet.

lol UBI fucking blows and i say that as a communist. literally just designed to pacify and neutralise a huge swathe of the population by giving them tendiebux

>>26506372
this is also true

The only way you can implement UBI is by culling 80% of the population and automating food production for the remaining 20%.

>>26506343
fucking retard there will be no "assets" for the masses. UBI will require all private wealth, both actual and unrealized, be surrendered to the govt

you think you can sit back and enjoy the show your in for a surprise, retard

>>26506372
not to burst your bubble or anything but niggers are not the reason you are unable to have sex

>>26499323

Dumbest thing I've read on biz this year so far

>>26506508
fucking retarded incels. Unironically, incels and niggers are the fucking cancer that needs to be removed from society

>>26499234
Ah, yes, let's print more money to make the poor poorer and the rich richer. Let's increase the tax on working class by a lot, to be able to give them a little bit more benefits, and pocket the rest.

how about we just kill all the niggers and spics and jews? would solve most problems

>>26499487
yeah but those 50 trillions would only buy you half a loaf of bread (and that is only if it's still available after 3 hours of queuing)

>>26500864
>How can anybody be against that?
have you ever seen poor people?

>>26500864
> Lots of people won't want to have a job

That's literally what happened when they trialled UBI for a year in Finland. Alot of people could survive on it so just stopped working and the annual gdp dropped so dramatically in 1 year that they ended it

>>26508005
>Alot of people could survive on it so just stopped working and the annual gdp dropped so dramatically in 1 year that they ended it
Wtf are you talking about. What retarded misinfo have you been fed.
The finland trial had no negative impact on employment, in fact it had a mild positive effect.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/an-experiment-to-inform-universal-basic-income#

>>26499234
>>26499323
If UBI comes, I will pump out 20 children as fast as I can and put all their UBI into Bitcoin. How will they stop me?

>>26508231
You'll need to have sex first.

>>26508005
Lol just making up pure fud. UBI increased employment slightly. which makes sense since a lot of people currently stay on unemployment since I not worth the slight increase in income to get a dead end job. With UBI you get your UBI payment plus whatever you earn so there's incentive to work at least part time to top up your income.

>>26506372
Doesn't work. You reduce the population, you shrink the economy and reduce the number of jobs in proportion to the decrease in people. Also, have sex.

>>26508104
>The finland trial had no negative impact on employment, in fact it had a mild positive effect.
yes, because it was conducted on already unemployed people:

>Finland ran a two-year universal basic income study in 2017 and 2018, during which the government gave 2000 unemployed people aged between 25 and 58 monthly payments with no strings attached.

>>26506508
He didn't mention anything about sex. What's with trannies and women bringing up sex every time something is mentioned?

>>26509402
>Also, have sex.

>>26506412
I think that's the perfect reason not to try yet. As I said, UBI would foster a population that depends on the government for their gibs. For UBI to work, the first thing you need is a trustless decentralised system.

>>26505694
>I can’t believe the amount of low level IQ people in here.
Why do you think the Pajeet scammers keep coming back to this board?