/biz/ - Business & Finance

i just want to see my numbers go up

>>26304794
Inevitable because the nigger hordes are too stupid to engage in capitalism. They must be fed from a trough like barnyard animals and worked in a similar manner.

>>26304794
I think smart contract communism is inevitable at this point.

>>26304794
Literally 1 terrorist attack targeting infrastructure and it all crumbles down fight club style.
Infrastructure that allows what they have in mind takes decades to build. And 5 minutes to destroy.
Amerimutts always say 'muh guns' because they are retards and havent realized that a few disgruntled people could bring down the whole system. Not with guns though, but via insurgency.
In minecraft of course

This is why the global economy is a fake shit, powered by financialization of the whole system

https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/faculty/jstiglitz/sites/jstiglitz/files/Inequality%20and%20Economic%20Growth.pdf

Also:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/debt-to-gdp-continues-to-rise-around-world/

>>26304794
>we dont need to compete
the ultimate object of competition is pussy, which will always be scarce

>>26304794
Who's going to pay for that?

>>26304847
>nigger hordes
>prefer cooperation
lmao

Impossible. You need money, as well as profits, in order to determine how to allocate scarce resources (assuming a free society). No politician or bureaucracy knows or can determine the optimal allocation of resources.

>>26304992
Taxes are a scheme to keep the gap between poors and middle class small so they dont get too uppity, and to make it damn near impossible for outsiders to rise past their current status.
>people actually think their tax dollars pay for things
They dont.

>>26305041
why do you need to assume a free society

Typical leftist fairytale fantasy about a moneyless world. They usually don’t give a shit about any of the things mentioned in the photo and at the end of the day know they have no real payable skills so they come up with shit like this hoping it’ll be true and they won’t have to worry about becoming homeless, which they will

>>26305146
I work in fintech in NY, 6 figure salary.

>>26304794
Why didn't the industrial revolution end money? Even in the Soviet Union?

>>26304794
the answer is called The coincidence of double wants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence_of_wants

>>26304794
>IS FEASIBLE
No, "technology" is not a magical thing, you will ALWAYS have some scarcity, and therefore an economy / property system.

>>26305230
>NY
So you're a cuck too.

>>26304794
>everyone can access what they need
I need a Bentley, a huge mansion and lots of thots. Now what?

>>26305137
Well in an authoritarian society, you can allocate scare resources without money in a political and sub optimal way. The US is on this path now because politicians promise free stuff and pay for it via inflation.

>>26305287
now vote communism

>>26304794
It's anti evolutionary principles. Happiness and fulfillment isn't a function of having your needs filled for you.

>>26305287


>>26305252
Of course. The market will never dissapear. Some things are scarce by nature (i.e. art) but for most things, like vegetables, even meat (factory produced), clothes and medicine, phones, plastic crap... there is no real scarcity if you manage your resources for the sake of resources.

>>26305230
You do realize you're part of the problem, right?

Hello sir i would like to buy your house, but all i have is cigarettes.

well i dont even smoke ciggies this trade is retarded for me

if only there was a medium of exchange we could both use as an intermediate

aka money

>>26304794
I like how this post completely ignores the fact that humans are in fact beats of burden. People become listless and self destructive without toil. In the best case scenario they become hedonists who live meaningless lives, but more likely they fall into a spiral of depression and boredom from having no challenges to overcome.
>inb4 some faggot says "but people will be free to become scientists and artists!"
No, they'll just watch Netflix a lot, smoke and drink, and fuck.

A future without work or money is the death of the human race.

[schizo]
Once automation reaches a certain threshold the elites of the world will cull the population. They will do this partly because there's no reason to keep 7 billion useless eaters around, and because their satanic beliefs demand ever increasing sacrifices.

UBI will be given out freely at first, then it will be reserved for only those people who agree to be sterilized.
[/schizo]

>>26305493
>Once automation reaches a certain threshold the elites of the world will cull the population. They will do this partly because there's no reason to keep 7 billion useless eaters around, and because their satanic beliefs demand ever increasing sacrifices.
>UBI will be given out freely at first, then it will be reserved for only those people who agree to be sterilized.
too keyed to be true

Lenin did this and it was disastrous. They quickly went to a form of money afterward

Is antisemitic.

>>26305448
A reeeeevolution of the economy can not happen without fintech and banks. With their greeks and battle tested models, they are premium "data processors", and data IS the new currency.

>>26305287
That’s equity! You weren’t born with a stool to see the game (get rich) now you should get a lump sum of money to invest. For equity’s sake! Enjoy your stool

>>26305574
Idgaf about the commie bastards. I'm more like a star trek guy :)

Also Lenin didnt have todays fintech.

Why vax if not to cripple sex drive to this end?

>>26304794
I find your post idealistic... nothing more...
We are competitive by nature, you take that out of the equation, go above and beyond to fulfill the needs and all you are left with are the virtues used tampons you see today in western societies getting butthurt and complaining about everything.
Enjoy the collapse.

>>26305753
she would look so sexy on her knees staring up at me with my load on her face

>>26304794
Well we're stuck with it

>>26305815
You can be competitive, i am competitive.

But we dont need competition for manufacture, and, with blockchains and robotics we could make all the smart factories to cooperate amongst them, while still enjoying our soccer matches on weekends or dancing in the disco to get some girls.

>>26304794
that's fucking retarded. get out

>>26305989
>enjoying our soccer matches on weekends or dancing in the disco to get some girls.

Give me death rather than that

>>26304794
This is some naive nonsense.

>>26304794
literally none of those statements are correct or remotely true. literally none of them. whoever wrote that is leeching off of someone else's hard work and has been for their whole life.

>we can have a developed economy without a means of exchange

go back to economics 101. oh wait, they dont teach that anymore. even at university level.

>>26306709
If all production is automated, the only limit is resource availability. You should be ask a new TV in your phone, and if there is no scarcity of resources, you should be able to have it.

And you should have low scarcity if everything is produced by the sake of resources, not for profits.

>>26304794
This would work if humans were replaced with robots. Trying to build an utopia is dangerous due to infinite utility. That justifies infinite costs to reach the goal.

>>26306840
And that will happen. The question is, what are our chances to have a good, appropiate system by then?

>>26304794
proto-marxist and extremely based.

>>26304794
such a system would only work if we stop procreating right now. the resources are not infinite, and we are already over the line

>>26305603
You have executed less than 100 trades of those half or more were losers. Ask me how I know you work in retail and frequent Reddit front page.

>>26306533
nice argument

>>26305886
Chang, here in America thats called creepy.

>>26305018
>the ultimate object of competition is pussy, which will always be scarce
EXTREMELY BASED

>>26305493
>Once automation reaches a certain threshold the elites of the world will cull the population. They will do this partly because there's no reason to keep 7 billion useless eaters around, and because their satanic beliefs demand ever increasing sacrifices.
>UBI will be given out freely at first, then it will be reserved for only those people who agree to be sterilized.
and thats a good thing, nothing schizo about it

>>26304794
but how do we distribute good and determine who gets what without a monetary system? ..... ok, so you want a new car, why do you get one? ...who should a new car be allocated to you? .... theres no reason to allocate you a car in a cashless world, you cant live how you want, you have to live how the government wants you to live as they are then providing for you instead

how does "automation" solver land and housing? If everything is free and everyone wants to live in a beach in Hawaii then what stops the hordes of people from going over there when there is no more room for them? Who allocates the resources? This is stupid, there will always be something that is scarce and unavailable to everyone no matter how "automated" things may be.

Also you act as though factories are automated but they aren't, the only reason you think they are is because people in China are literally working slave labor wages to create your goods, ask Elon Musk how well completely automated factories work.

>>26307250
yep at some point people gotta be realistic.
But it will only force one of the coolest shit ever: expansion and space exploration.
>>26307360
that's why Utopia-like controled mass sterilization is the only future for an intelligent species

>>26305018
high IQ take

>>26304794
>because everyone can access what they need
Literally no creature with a lizard brain like humans has ever stopped with "accessing what they """"need""""". You're going to get the tragedy of the commons if you don't have a system of private property to manage access.

>>26307085
I disagree. its arguable that with refocused production we are not over the line, and population growth rates are already caving out. Think about the value we are pouring into maintaining global hegemony over china in markets - not just lost value from tariffs and regulations, but the military force involved in that as well. Imagine if the military was used for defense instead.
>>26306840
By definition if it's possible to build, it's not utopia. "infinite utility" is not a thing. there is a given set of needs & a given amount of production that can be done with human hands at any stage of its evolution. your idea of "infinite utility" conflates this with the capitalist notion of hoarding money to protect against future strife, where every commodity's exchange value, to you, becomes utility. Since commodities are theoretically unlimited, you think utility is unlimited. But that logic doesn't exist without an exchange-based economy

>>26307297
Just ask for the things. Since you can not sell this stuff, there is no point in accummulation, unless you have Diogenes syndrome.

>>26307513
You can avoid the tragedy of the commons with open source, open data, hyperconnected advanced computer systems.

>>26304882
>block chain
>world wide web
>internet

M-m-Maybe they’re trying to tell us something, anon.

>>26307633
Yeah, is a shallow take, but i dont think this thread is a good place to discuss the gritty details... Or is it?

>>26305493
>UBI will be given out freely at first, then it will be reserved for only those people who agree to be sterilized.
I would sign up tomorrow.

>>26305103
Is this a red pill? Or a black pill?

>>26307567
https://youtu.be/rtVVcva4Fjc?t=2623

Long video, but interesting neverthless

>>26304794
Global gdp per capita is like 11k. There isn't enough productivity for everyone to live free. How do I know? People are constantly working right now. You'd know this is you had a real job.

>>26307360
They assume automation absolves responsibility.

In practice automation is capital-intensive.

Capital is the nervous system of modern society

>>26307875
Oh, i have a well paid job, that puts me in the 1% in my country. I work for the bank industry.

>>26307777
REDPILLED quads bro

>>26307955
I disagree. I think its data. And money is a poor source of data. Unless all you care is money, but we see how that is working now. Cartels, pollution, corruption, etc.

>>26307633
No you can't because when price is zero demand is infinite. That's the entire point of the tragedy of the commons. Even if hoarding the thing made no sense, like if there was a vault of infinite cooked steak, some asshole is going to come along and take every last steak he can carry even though it'll be inedible within hours, just in case. Or he'll sit at the vault eating non-stop until his gut bursts. The problem isn't resource allocation, the problem is that humans are hoarders because we still retain much of the brain structure from when we split off from lizards. There's no way around it. You MUST have a system of private property to manage resources.

>>26307962
As do I in software. So then you're aware of the amount of work that gets done that literally can't be done by computers yet. Work that if it doesn't get done, the system collapses on itself.

>>26308018
Data doesn't back-propagate into a responsive system. Maybe in the future.

>>26307800
I moved around the timestamp a bit a few things I like a lot
>view on constitution and democracy
>analysis that the legal system can't adapt to human needs
and obviously if I watched the entire video before I responded, this thread would be gone. But I will say, there are many people out there with worthwhile ideas about how we might solve some of these problems. But the problems still exist as a necessary part of the existing system, which is enforced on a class basis. ANY proposal will be rejected by the ruling class, even if it means their mutual destruction.

>>26304950
Bible says all her lights will be out in an hour. Sounds like an emp attack.

>>26304992
>All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

>>26308209
Class is also a derived characteristic of human biology. You think bloodlines that spend 500-5000 years as nothing but peasants doesn't cause evolutionary changes? Most people are simply peasants from birth, it has very little to do with externally enforced class systems. You can see this in America very clearly. Even if you give peasants a land of unbelievable wealth and security, peasant bloodlines still act like peasants and noble bloodlines end up accumulating all the power and wealth. Yeah, there's a lot of churn because evolution isn't perfect and you always get outliers in both directions, but in general it's true.

>>26308464

>>26308632
If you have a better explanation of the historical evidence be my guest. But you don't, you only have fallacious logic and incorrect premises.

>>26308766
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/ch02.htm

>>26304847
unfortunately appears to be true. the death of capitalism, and the death of the human race, will inevitably be due to the attempt to incorporate animals into human society, with them being too dumb to play by its rules.

>>26304794
What becomes of the various luxury goods on the market?

>>26309021
That depends on what you consider luxury. To me, luxury is not a bathroom covered in gold (thisis waste), but a carefully crafted wooden desk is.

Both things are not common: they are scarce. There will still be a market for scarcity, and there will be a medium of exchange. However, this medium of exchange will be used only for these things, and not for the big mass of consumer products, which should be made to last/be recycled/be given away after you use it.

>>26308916
Thank you for that example of fallacious logic and incorrect premises, but it I'm still waiting on that better explanation of historical evidence. Not holding my breath though since you seem to have stopped reading books around the end of the 19th century.

this thread is cute

>>26309198
A nice escape for all the FUD/shilling we see every day in here :)

>>26304847
How do we profit from this?

>>26304950
That’s exactly why we own guns you dumbass. Because we know it doesn’t take much to completely halt the machine and we don’t want to be the ones left without food on the table, you no-guns

>>26309179
No, it's an oldie, but it's relevant because it's about a scientific discovery that many others have worked to build upon.
And the race realist telling anybody that their logic & premises are outdated is pretty hilarious

>>26304794
I agree, theoretically this is possible. However, people come up with this garbage never take human nature into account and a society like this would have rampant corruption and violence by the end of the first year. There is just no critical thinking ever put into these ideas.

>>26308168
Interesting, i haven't though about that as an explicit point that has to be considered and studied.

>>26309177
>That depends on what you consider luxury.
Items that are not required for survival. A lot of hobby goods fall under this, TV's, and some might argue computers and phones.

>>26305029
>prefer to be forced to cooperate
ftfy

>>26305383
No country can produce 100 % of all the things they consume. You either need global trade or go back to late XIX century-level production which can't sustain modern cities.

Yes, production is cheaper now than it has ever been. Just look at inflation: a guitar that was produced in the 50s for 335 $ is now worth almost 4000 $ and vice-versa: guitars that are made today for 80 $ would've been 5 $ back in the 50s, which was inconceivable.

But even then we have no way right now to produce things for free.

>>26310008
Jeremy Rifkin wrote a book about that

https://www.amazon.com/Jeremy-Rifkin/dp/1137280115

>>26304794
We had ruskies here for 40 years, please kindly go fuck yourself with your commie ideas.

>>26310008
Also if you have some time check the video in >>26307800

>>26310161
A moneyless society can be democracy, monarchy, anarchy, etc. Is not tied to any of those. It is about things and production, not civil liberties.

>>26310008
Then explain how the earth as a whole produces 100% of the things it consumes.

>>26310254
Trading is basic human activity. It can be meme numbers or piles of stones but what OP is about is communist utopia raping societies since french revolution.

>>26310358
Sadly you can't argue someone out of the communist mind virus. The best you can do is expose them to the real world and let them see the errors of their ways firsthand.

>>26310358
Nothing stops you for trading your custom made cups with flowers and deers and sell them.

But if you made them in mass, generating waste, and you don't care about it (and you wont since there is no profit on that) it is something that an interconnedted machine will do better and with less waste.

>>26304992
most of the early bitcoin/crypto adopters got into it for this exact reason right here. Trying to repay debts with FIAT sitting in a bank doing nothing is retarded.

>>26310472
Also you can always trade feet pics. It will probably make you richer than trading crypto if you use girls feet.

>>26305287
Death to the thot hoarder, simple as

Someone will own the production infrastructure. Destroying money would desirable by the owner class. A kind of placated serfdom. Sounds like rat utopia too much to me. A recipe for collapse.

>>26305041
>>26305316
not sure why people are still posting ITT. these 2 replies are all you need to explain the situation, simple and to the point

>>26305041
> No politician or bureaucracy knows or can determine the optimal allocation of resources.

I am willing to bet that machines can. (with open source and open data of course)

>>26309177
But this basically means all products would be the same base level item. Who would make the special brand of soda that I like that's 3 times the price of regular soda? Just get a fucking job.

>>26310899
>I am willing to bet that machines can.
Okay, go make your own society to do that. Leave the rest of us alone.