/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>26236479
Literally retarded take by OP.

Bitcoin mining is about purchasing futures contracts for electricty and using mining as a put option.
If you don't understand that get off biz

We need a great resot

ze bitcoin mining is ze greatest threat to the planet we have seen in century

We need a great rezot

>>26236611
Absolute retard! Right now there are heaps of third world throwback BURINING OIL FOR BITCOIN. PoW will be seen as a massive mistake this decade

>>26236611
I don't understand this, what is put option?

>>26236736
Maxis think bitcoin is some elbaorate way of eletricity arbitrage. The turth is there is nothing green or sustainable about BTC

>>26236736
Put option is being able to sell something for a minimum price.
So say a miner purchases 1,000 kwh at .03 cents he knows he can always run the miners for a profit.
What happens is as the grid use flucutates the miner decides to either mine or sell his electricty back for a premium.
This is going to make grids more efficient.

Layer1 technology is doing this business model and it'll continue across the world.

>what is solar power
>what is wind power
>what is nuclear power
>what is hydro electric power
if a Tesla can be considered green despite being charged via 70% Coal and Natural gas burning, all because in the future we might be able to retrofit the grid to use sustainable nergy, then so is Bitcoin.

>>26236736
https://tftc.io/martys-bent/issue-901-theyre-catching-on/

>>26236816
I think I have an idea to what all this encompasses, somewhat. Thank you all the same friend.

Today's leftwing statist nocoiner narratives become tomorrow's seething altcoiner narratives.

"Holy shit we should ban bitcoin mining in countries where it is largely green, that way Iran's oil burning will continue anyways and my alt bags will plummet to zero along with BTC. Brilliant"!

>>26236847
Sounds great, but no one is using those sources. Cheapest always wins

>>26236479
This is the beginning of an attack from Jewish cynicism. They're going to do everything that they can to brand Bitcoin as "evil"

>>26236736
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1921-12-04/ed-1/seq-1/

>>26236921
Iranians are not Jews you putz. Look at their media, this story is everywhere.

>>26236891
It's pretty revolutionary when a put option on electricty is discovered, and it provides security to a global financial network.

>>26236984
You just run with some internet mythology while the truth is right here. Cognitive dissonance at its finest

>>26236949
Wow media ran a bs story?
That changes everything! Lol

>>26237086
Complete denial. I understand

>>26237079
Why don't you look at it in terms of a free market instead of pushing gay global warming lies.
Bitcoin actually finances a green revolution, but (((they))) lose their power so it's bad.
It's stupidly easy to see through your deception.

>>26236880
>>26236935
>>26236984
>even back then they tried to break away from the jew shekels
thanks brah

>>26237133
So now everything negative about BTC is a deception from (((them)))? kys retard

>>26237122
So what's your solution, a war?
Go fuck yourself.

>>26236479
based agitator OP
appreciate all the work you do

>>26236479
This is ultra bullish.

>>26237170
You seem kinda unhinged, anon. Luke Dashjr said that PoS could be used.

>>26236893
Renewables are becoming increasingly cheaper while nonrenewables are becoming increasingly expensive, and that's without including the publicized costs of things like fracking and drilling for oil.

This remains the stupidest and most deceitful Liberal narrative by the way. Do you think bank servers holding all your financial transactions don't use power? Do you think running the NYSE is using no power?
Or how about Twitter? Is it neccesary we burn a shit ton of coal so liberals can tweet about racism all day? Fud these things too if you are so against electrical usage.

>>26237171
It isn't hard to put the pieces together.
Iran... check
Global warming... check
Mass media... check

All to ensure bankers keep their place.
You gotta try better than that.

>>26237243
Don't care buddy it's a free market and global consensus.
We like the security set up the way it is, and if you have a better idea then go do that.
You're not convincing people here bitcoin is causing global warming, that's rubbish.

>>26236479
We aren’t Iran though

>>26237291
It all sounds progressive and big for bitcoin, but Chinese think differenly to you. They exploit whatever situation is avaliable.

Do yo understand why America will fall behind China this decade?

>>26237355
You're buying their coins though.

>>26237357
China actually invested in infustructure while U.S. gave all their money to Israel.

>>26237357
>poster championing China spreads liberal narrative half truths to fud bitcoin
It's all so tiresome.

>>26236479

Shitskins ruin everything.

>>26237417
Iran is blaming China for the missing electricity in their country, did you even read the fucking article before talking to me?

>>26237392

Good.

Dunno man, all the psychological pressure points are there.

Iran bad, global warming gonna kill us, crypto bad. Seems like an intelligence OP to demonize Iran and get libtards really incited and angry.

>>26237486
The story is perpetuated by Iran. This is not "Iranian man bad"

>>26236479
how much energy is burned by global powers doing "economic planning" in the form of printing money and giving it to kike bankers?

here is a before and after of gold mining

>>26236736
PUTTIN DEEZ NUTS IN YOUR FACE NIGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>26237542
Bitcucks would call this a positive for "hard currency"

>>26237542
just fill it with water again and it will look exactly the same. fucking retarded

>>26237567
Good strawman, you probably feel really smart posting that.

>>26237567
Me boomer. Me kill earth mother for shiney rock.

>>26237631
>>26237665
The same goes for muh clean hydro energy. Just ingore that China has zero policy when clearning land for development. Who knows what was even lost

>>26237542
wtf i hate gold now

OP is a dumb nigger and nobody likes him.

How many kilowatts of porn fly around the internet each day?

>>26237914
That's antisemitic

>>26237455
No
>chad meme

>>26236935
He tried to warn us.

>>26236479
This wouldn't be an issue if Jews hadn't almost completely deplatformed Iran from the world economy.

>>26238162
You mean Trump?

>>26238127

>>26238270
>who is george bush
>who is obama

>>26238270
whats the difference?

>>26238311
Obama was pretty fucking lenient with Iran if I remeber correctly.

>>26236479
We should seriously organize a political effort to ban OnlyFans and make e-thotting illegal, as a misdirection. While they are busy defending brave wamen they don’t have time to spend on complaining about bitcoin, and if they are astute they may even pick up on their problem (they call bitcoin “evil”, we call e-thots “evil”, etc) and realize if they want their little gold mine intact they have to leave us with ours.

fuck it im in. better late then never bros
RUBIC

>>26238372
Do it bro. Nothing of value would be lost

>>26236708
No they arent. You stupid little fuck.

>>26238441
cope

>>26237355
Yes. We can do better.

>>26238406
Indeed...I wonder if I can trick /pol/ into becoming my personal army.

>>26237914
About three fifty

>>26236779
>BTC maxis have *argument*
>But the truth is *not an argument*

>>26238552
No I mean we don’t have a base power grid issue and we could easily expand it.

>>26236893
yeah, no one. hydro is king. if only they would let me try a thorium reactor here.

nobody ever claimed bitcoin was green
did anyone say that?
But it dosnt matter, makes money. And if you think the green economy will win you best be ready to murder 3 billion people

>>26238657
A huge amount of land clearning is required for hydro. Something always overlooked

>>26238728
not here.

>>26237542
nothing compared to farming

>>26238724
Heaps do bro. Lurk more

This energy argument is such a waste of time. Let me break it down for you..

When I purchase my electricity I can do whatever I want with it. There is no "morality" to how "best" to use my electricity. I can leave my TV, lights, kettle, computer on 24/7 and be "wasteful" but I still purchase it and can choose whatever I want to do with it.

You can't place morality on something such as energy usage because that's highly subjective. Especially so when you look at what actual mining of crude oil does to the environment.

Fuck off

>>26238516
Right, because you know better. You are the genius with a solution for decentralized, permissionless, trustless transacting without double spending that doesn’t burn energy and isn’t some “usually it works” statistical sampling approach or a “people with money can be trusted!” approach like PoS.
Wait, no, you’re probably just a retard who likes to yap his trap even though you haven’t the foggiest about the problem space.

>>26238759
That ain't China fren. Remember most mining is using Chinese electricity which they call "green" kek

>>26238783
Bitcoin is using about 27 nuclear plants of electricity, it's actually something that needs constant discourse as it goes higher

>>26236708
>PoW
>PoW?

prisoners of war? what?
your acting like the exponential population growth after the "green revolution" and subsequent rise in "living standard" for those people didnt hammer the final nail into the coffins long ago.

Its war or enviormental collapse, sooner or later.
One route you lose money the other you lose all of it. choose wisely

>>26238724
>nobody ever claimed bitcoin was green
Yes, lots of people do. Me, for instance. Humanity cannot get by without a true store of value. That’s bitcoin or gold, and gold mining hurts the environment far more. Therefor bitcoin is green, since no greener alternative exists for a required function.

>>26238886
good
Time to build more

>>26238886
Call the U.N. then faggit.
What are you doing posting on 4chan?

>>26238886
So does society

Bitcoin has never been the problem here. The problem has already been there for decades and decades, it's the energy sources they use. If it wasn't bitcoin, these retards would have used the same energy source for something else that is profitable. You don't have the bitcoin environmental problem if you use renewable energy sources.

>>26238657
This

>>26236479
Iran is going to make it, meanwhile the Zionist States are doing everything they can to scare off innovation, feels good man.

>>26238783
I dissagree, turn your damn lights off when you arent using them is morally right.

>>26236479
They burn off low quality fuels anyways. The Persian gulf is blanketed in sooty smog.

>>26236664
U VILL eat ze bugs
U vill vatch ze blackedraw

>>26239010
hydro is the only decent option other than nuclear to replace some of the coal and gas.

>>26236479
dude fuel in tarkov for your generator to power your bitcoin mining is INSANE now
it's over like 110k rubles when they were like 30k before this big bitcoin explosion
but now I can sell my bitcoin in ESCAPE FROM TARKOV (video game) for like 500k rubles so it's worth it
but the issue is now is everyone is buying up all the fuel to power this shit
so it's expensive almost not worth it anymore

wonder if escape from tarkov will use xrp instead cause the fees are way lower and energy consumption far lower as well

>>26239054
tbf when it comes to money and zionist states vs iran zionist states anyday
come on you tards go back to /pol

>>26236880

rivers are now gold mines

>>26238783
seriously ngmi

>>26236708
>Right now there are heaps of third world throwback BURINING OIL FOR BITCOIN
Good.

and the internet? how much of that is excessive consumption? You could help by fucking off.

>>26236479
nah, it's cool. You are just a retard.

>>26239218
I fear this is mutual thinking when big money is being made here. Bitcoin is for the enrichment of the individual over helping socitey from bad currency.

Fuck the collapse of shit around me, I'm getting a lambo.

>>26239219
Internet serves the planet while bitcoin is perhaps 20 - 30 million at most

>>26239326
If you want to discuss morality and "the state of the world" please take your ass to >>>/pol/

>>26239392
His response lacks morality

Yes. We know.

>>26239427
The current financial system lacks morality.
How moral is the petro-dollar, what about the federal reserve, or global sanctions?
This network is a fair and open consensus nothing immoral about that.
Quit trying to control other people.

>>26239754
>Quit trying to control other people.
I'm merely flagging the inherent flaws of the thought behind bitcoin in 2021. Regulations are coming anyway, I won't change anything.

>>26239917
Ok you lost the debate and now all you've got is fun.
Just leave and never make a thread here again, you're worthless.

>>26237914
don't compare cooming to a free private currency
the first is actually important

>>26239989
There was no debate? Just denial about what bitcoin does

>>26239593
Based and tanglepilled

>>26237542
Two things can be bad at the same time

>>26237542
Damn.,,, thats powerful. We need a UN backed one world currency NOW. it is time to end racist, environment destructive so called 'money' like gold and bitcoin.

>>26240283
Unironically this.

>>26236479
Gold mining is consuming about 200 twh per year.
Gold miners emit 1000+ tons of mercury pollution every year: 40% of global emissions.
They deforest hundreds of thousands of acres (pic related).

If BTC demonetizes gold as the dominant decentralized reserve asset, it will be a net positive for the environment.
When people buy/hold Bitcoin instead of gold, they are increase the revenue of Bitcoin miners instead of Gold miners. Bitcoin is a much more environmentally friendly alternative to using gold as a decentralized reserve asset.

People like OP use environmental propaganda to cover for the real reason why they hate Bitcoin: they are sad authoritarians who hate the financial freedom that Bitcoin provides to its' users.

>>26240484
gold mining deforestation and mercury pollution

>>26236479
you mean Iran is an environmentla catastrophe?

>>26236708
Yeah they should be burning oil to manufacture more garbage for us instead

>>26237542
>>26237681
>>26240484
you low IQ niggers do realize that we can ban gold mining and still have all the gold we've ever mined left for money, right?
if we stop mining bitcoin, bitcoin disappears and becomes unusable

as a gold stacker I can't wait for them to ban gold and bitcoin mining, incredibly bullish for gold

>>26237542
>>26237681
>>26240521
also, don't forget that also those ASICs use PM's as well

>>26240653
based

>>26236880
>energy consumption with no productive output is somehow a worthwhile thing because funny internet money comes out of it
jesus christ

>>26237357
How will they power the mines when they're all starving to death and selling me their daughters for 1 link so they can eat for another year?

I'm not interested at all. I put my money on waves.exchange, i stake. I get free money

>>26237542
>>26237681
>>26240521
>>26240653
also, don't forget that those ASICs use PM's as well

>>26236479
yall dumbass investing in internet money when you could be investing in energy companies

>>26240701
You could say the same thing about any social media site, this one included

Why do FUDders FUD? Just don’t buy the fucking coin, fag. I don’t own any Bitcoin or crypto and it doesn’t bother me
One but that some guys make money from it.

>>26237086
Don’t lol on /biz/ you utterly brain-dead faggot. GET OFF MY BOARD NOW REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>26236479
I'm honestly excited to see how this all plays out. This is a play that's only necessary due to current economic sanctions. If BTC proves to be an effective geopolitical tool for bypassing sanctions there will be a lot of anger about it from the US but it's fundamentally bullish for the price of BTC. This is BTC allowing for a country to be more self sovereign even though it's not a country I support or think is doing things right at all.

>>26236479
I wish we could just fast forward to when all the leftists and socialists finally give in and submit to Bitcoin. They're going to waste the next 20 years of their lives raging and crying over something with powerful game theory incentives that they can't overcome.

As long as there is cheap energy somewhere on the planet, Bitcoin will live on. Why waste your life and security of your future fighting it when you can just buy it now and relax?

>>26240653
~80% of small gold mining ops are already illegal.
Banning gold mining would only drive it further underground and increase the violence in the market.
The only way to stop gold mining is to drive the gold price to $0. Bitcoin is already succeeding at this by absorbing demand for a decentralized reserve asset that would normally go toward gold.

>>26236479
i literally don't give a fuck anon, world will be shit after my generation and i am here to make money, fuck my future children

>>26236479
>country literally forcing blackouts on its own population in order to mine Bitcoin
Somehow this is bearish.
Try again.

>>26240653
Any PC connected to the internet anywhere in the world can mine bitcoin. A Wholesale ban on bitcoin mining would be impossible, and if actually achieved, would just be incredibly bullish for the jurisdictions that now see how much they can profit because they decided to keep it legal

>>26240881
PoS is the correct answer here. Even a few core developers have said that BTC should become proof of stake.

>>26238886
In the west Bitcoin is only profitable in areas with cheap electricity i.e. excess electricity that would otherwise not be used.

>>26241818
If it becomes PoS we literally lose years worth of trust from the system.
The mining competitiveness will force miners to either innovate or get left behind.

>>26241876
Core devs disagree. There is no competitiveness when Chinese miners will burn cheap/free oil for electricity. The game theory devolves into a race where only the most devious wins

>>26241850
Wait until the EU and US put a carbon tax on BTC production. Who will be left mining your coins?

>>26241944
Core devs don’t matter. A lot of people would lose trust if BTC becomes a PoS system. It is yet unproven how a PoS system can back assets almost reaching a trillion with 10-20% staked at any given time.

>>26236479
https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumption-transaction-comparison-visa/

>>26242067
All US and EU miners are using hydro power.

>>26236847
wind power is a fucking joke. a fake, green dream SCAM.

>>26241944
No they don't. Guarantee you can't name anybody deeply involved in bitcoin that believes we should fundamentally change the protocol that drastically. And even if that were true it wouldn't matter because the overall community has no interest in migrating to something less secure and more censorable. Moving to proof of stake literally kills the characteristics that make bitcoin important

>>26242167
Luke Dashjr does.. to counter the centralized Chinese mining

>>26236816
take your meds schizo

>>26242093
Yeah I doubt a move to POS happens. A block size change led to several hard forks. A POS change would cause a bunch of folks, including me to just sell my bags and go home.

>>26236479
Alternatively this drives innovation for efficiency in power generation with tangible financial reward. This incentive will only rise with BTC value increase over time. Yes that's right, BTC will literally be the catalyst to solve scarcity of energy, which in turn drives actual economic and societal improvement.

If you weren't some non achieving environmental alarmist you'd recognize that too.

>>26242264
A piece of internet mythology with no substance. The reality is cheap oil gets burnt instead.

>>26242261
Yup, I’ve been holding since 2014 and if they go PoS I’ll sell it off too.

BUT WHY DON'T WE USE MONERO INSTEAD OF BITCOIN FOR FUCK SAKE

>>26242315
Until better solutions come along and even cheap oil is not competitive.

Also nobody is saying remove all environmental controls over pollution. Enforcement cost has to be factored in though.

Sooner or later, using current energy production techniques will be considered the same way we look at steam engines.

>>26236816
I don't quite understand, how does it make the grids more efficient?

>>26242692
If Bitcoin realizes .its potential, you have a monetary network that is pegged to efficient usage of electricity by its participants.
See the evolution of bitcoin mining amongst individuals and businesses, when more nation states FOMO in they will need to compete and competition will lead to more efficient usage or generation of electricity.

>>26243105
>nation states FOMO
There is no actual fomo beyond the greed of BTC holders. Rather inevitable regulations are coming to curb the speculation.

>>26236479
No one will mine Bitcoin after the last BTC has been mined. It's a self-solving problem

>>26242242
>blocks the CCP's path

>>26237243
>bricks your SHA-256 asics
I take it OP is shilling ETH 2.0 in an attempt to break through the resistance at 4m to 4.2m sats.

>>26236708
This anon gets it. Unironically

>>26236816
>yay I saved 0.01% on my electricity bill thanks to put options!

Why does this sound incredibly gay?

Global warming meme. Booga booga.

>>26238940
Hope everyone sold the top

Bunch of faggots itt, fuck off

>>26236479
i don't give a shit about the environment. i would personally dump a supertanker of oil on the barrier reef, or set the amazon ablaze, it it meant i could make enough money to never again have to wagecuck at this job i fucking hate

>>26245717
cringe

>>26236479
no it's not where do you put excess electric production if we switch to renewables? ditching coal and gas buffer plants means you have to be able to store electricity as sustainable are not that flexible.

bitcoin can store the excess energy as economic energy to traded for electricity or goods later. thus it can reduce global emission of greenhouse gasses by 41%.

now fuck off soiboi!

>>26236479
it costs like 1-2k to mine one bitcoin (30-40k~) currently

the market is acting rationally

>>26245717
Ngmi

>>26236847
all the energy we harness comes from nuclear fusion one way or an other. fission plants use fuel produced by nuclear fusion in other stars. wind hydro and solar all use our own sun which is the real reactor.
and of course plants use solar energy to harvest co2 from the atmosphere and turn it into complex carbohydrates that turns into fossile fuel over time.
so even gasoline is energy stored from nuclear fusion.

>>26246541
Bitcoiners consistently have these fantasies about what bitcoin can do with all the hidden incentives, but evidence shows none of your narratives are actually occurring in real life. It's like some warped ideology of a possible utopia, however, the riches are just coming at the expense of the planet. Like expectation outweighs reality - or something.

>>26246708
you can't really measure progress as a civilization on the weekly chart. these things take time. building plants takes years sometimes decades if you count the investment and planning.

>>26246708
also this is like guns and drugs they can save lives or ruin them depending on how they are used. guns are not good or evil, we have to use them responsibly. bitcoin however is absolutely good and there is only downside if we go full retard with it.

>>26236708
Retard, btc is the biggest incentive to create cheap, efficient, renewable energy.
PoW will be remembered as the biggest incentive to reach a breakthrough in energy creation

>>26236479
It pays for the oil and the electricity, what's the problem? It's not a good way to spend energy? Are video games a good way to spend energy?

>>26243105
Anon, Venezuela has been on the verge of a total collapse of their power grid, yet the government keeps mining BTC.

Governments don't need to have a proper power grid to mine BTC. All they need is electricity. Hence why Iranians and Chinese are burning oil and coal respectively to run their mining farms.

>>26236479
Have you ever worked in the Power Industry ?
Please give us your opnion on Burning Low Quality Bunker C and what your technical recommendation is for an Air Heater Upgrade in order to keep the boiler tubes from suffering large scale build up or corrosion. How can we improve efficiency and balance the plant so that we get more megawatts ?

>>26238940
based and neo-con pilled

>>26236479
i thought iran strictly regulated miner power consumption to excess electricity months ago.
guess the market incentives are just too good to bother with regulation even in a dictatorship.
>Last year, Iran legalized cryptocurrency mining and instituted heavy-handed regulations to control the practice.
>With access to oil reserves and relatively cheap electricity, Iran can offer heavily-subsidized power to miners and offset a bulk of the cost of mining cryptocurrencies like bitcoin for firms that play by their rules.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/is-iran-becoming-a-bitcoin-nation

>>26247482
Crypto news is the worst, fren. Poor journalism and perverse incentives means a lot of stories are just fake news to keep the hype training running.

>>26247339
The PoS is how you fix bitcoin.

>>26236479
Fuck all fiat.
Carbon Coins and Terrawatt Tokens are the future.

>>26240653
>calling anyone low IQ when you think banning bitcoin is possible
what is bittorrent and why can you still use it?

>>26236893
>TFW soon to be lifetime Emperor Bolsonaro cutting down the amazon to burn in steam turbines for BTC farming.

>>26237737
Undeveloped land?

>>26237542
This isnt an after photo, its a during photo. Land reclamation from mining is massive and heavily enforced. Quit lying.

>>26236708
Based

>>26239111
There's no one size fit all, shitloads of geo some places, tidal other places, solar too.
Wind is the least efficient, sad because it all there's available in some of the richest most green reaching nations.

That's why i jumped ship to a leading POS coin

t. AVAX chad

>>26247549
>The PoS is how you fix bitcoin.
bitcoin would stop being bitcoin on pos
also there is no way you can do a majority fork off pow to pos. the remaining mining power on pow fork power would be 100% ahahaha so the nakamoto consensus would dictate that's the real bitcoin.

>>26239111
doesn't matter see >>26246688

>>26246823
Imagine what other uses the electricity would have provided such as lowering everyones power costs globally

Bitcoin literally burns energy for no added value.
Mining does not add security to the network or secures any bitcoins.
All the bitcoins are only secured by ecdsa, not hash power.

All mining can stop for 10 days and all coins would be more secure.

Can you imagine how retarded people globally are
Bitcoiners are literally like obese mutts destroying their own body while drinking 2L coke for dinner while they roll in their 'mobile

Miners sell their electricity to buyers of an imaginary token who confuse ecdsa with sha256

Buttcoiners are literally paying miners to destroy the earth they live on

>>26247905
>Mining does not add security to the network or secures any bitcoins.
ahahaha idiot

>>26247905
>All the bitcoins are only secured by ecdsa, not hash power.
you fucking brainlet just fucking learn how bitcoin works! without hashpower one day you "have" bitcoins you can spend by signing the next day you never got them the ledger shows your wallet empty and your keys worthless.

>>26247905
Yeah excess hydro and geothermal power in Canada is destroying our environment. I'm tired of retards like you reading buzzfeed headlines and pretending you know anything about energy. BTC is one of the most environmentally friendly tech industries. But you probably eat palm oil and drive a brand new EV SUV.

>>26236479
>but bitcoin uses hydro and solar
What people miss those things produce co2 as well. Bitcoin is the worst system on earth

>>26236479
retards burning oil when there's is a massive ball of plasma in space irradiating free energy towards earth

Have environmentalists ever stopped and asked themselves, "is this world, in its current state, even worth preserving?" The rhetorical question should easily turn the crunchiest greenie into a Captain Planet villain.

>>26247963
you are the idiot
your coins are only secured by the ecdsa weather mining is happening or not

in fact guessing your passphrase mnemonic can steal your coins even if hashrate is in the gorrilionz alien range.

>>26247984
educate yourself, fucking retard the mining process doesnt keep state of the ledger fucktard. so embarassing your statement is just rope yourself now

>>26248082
Oh really excess hydro and geothermal in Canda is all there is to bitcoin mining? how quiant and centralized shitcoin only 1 country owns it. omfg. do you even believe what you think?

>>26248345
>The rhetorical question should easily turn the crunchiest greenie into a Captain Planet villain.
Don't recall any of those wanting to bulldoze urban centres, move toxic landfills into assholes private mansions or sink all non-cargo/cruise ships to leave Japan just on principle.

>>26248472
>your coins are only secured by the ecdsa weather mining is happening or not
you fucking brainlet you have no idea what makes your coins "yours" it's a global ledger. if the ledger says it's not yours you are fucked with your ecdsa

>>26236479
Energy is the purest asset, you can even make gold if you have enough energy.
When you input electricity into a country it outputs economic growth.
This is why the countries with the worst access to energy subsidize it to make it even cheaper than green energy. The ability to exploit these subsidies to mine means they don't work anymore. Nobody can get away with subsidizing dirty energy.

>>26248472
>the mining process doesnt keep state of the ledger
but it literally does. there is no separable "mining process" the consensus algo that determines the valid ledger uses proof of work to determine the valid chain and thus the current ledger state.
it's inseparable.

fucking brainlets...

imagine replying to the same thread for 6 hours straight.

USD0.5 has been deposited to your account.
See you tomorrow S45 id

>>26236611
the cope

>>26236611
Based and american psycho pilled

>>26236479
what's the footprint of Gold? nigger

>>26236479
Globhomo tier article
QAnon tier post
Pajeet tier FUD

>>26236611
fpbp

>>26236479
>buring
>>26236708
>BURINING

are you retarded, OP? genuine question

>>26249807
I had some Hibiki Harmony and my ability to type declined.
>>26249803
>t. Q
>>26249684
Comparing BTC to gold is retarded. How many people do you think are using BTC? 20-30 million?

>>26247905
>Bitcoiners are literally like obese mutts destroying their own body while drinking 2L coke
Projecting

>>26241818
enjoy another meaningless fork.
maybe bitcoin platinum this time?

>>26248472
>the mining process doesnt keep state of the ledger
i want to know where this bullshit enemating from so i can go directly after the source.
anyone know?

>>26249294
> you fucking brainlet you have no idea what makes your coins "yours" it's a global ledger. if the ledger says it's not yours you are fucked with your ecdsa
> its a global ledger
> global ledger
> if the ledger says

He doesnt run his own full node, he just trusts the miners
Why dont as well you just go and trust the feds

>>26242692
When the grid is not in use, the excess power is dumped on the ground. The energy has to go somewhere. Since most of the electricity consumption happens at specific hours, there's a lot of extra power during the day, and balancing that is very complicated to say the least. When they can't find find somewhere for that power to go, into the ground it goes (and no, they can't just shut it down real quick, power plants are very complex, even the simple ones).
Anyway, with BTC that dumped power is used for mining and the power company makes money that way.

>>26249322
> the valid ledger uses proof of work to determine the valid chain

ledger state can not change just because miners mine a fucking block
to change ledger state, you need to provide signature a transaction

if no signature is provided, miners have mined an invalid block

the full nodes reject invalid blocks, hence mining is not required to produce "valid chain".

even if a block with correct and much more difficulty solved, much hashrate if its not following the rules, its still invalid.
miners did try this at ever halvening, to produce block with high reward for them such blocks are just forgotten by other miners and by full nodes

the rules are ecdsa signature is required
simple as

fucking brainlet

>>26250645
go to the bitcoin core developers maxwell, luke, cobra, theymos etc

they made it very clear the miners are supposed to mine, full nodes and developers set the rules for what is valid and not irregardless of difficulty solved and PoW performed
see events of 2017 segwit bitch
see event when miner tried to skip a halvening

UASF

>>26236479
>noooo you can't use energy for a decentralized currency, that destroys the enviroment!
>why yes we buy our useless shit from china and it's shipped in huge freight ships that pollute more than all cars in the world combined. That's justified, it was 0.1 cent cheaper! Think of our shareholders!

Mark my words, in the future muh enviroment will be used as an excuse to shut down crypto.

>>26250951
based Russia/US melting icecaps for trade routes will save us.

>No Iran can't just mine bitcoin and trade with the outside world without Israeli and American intervention, this is literally the end of the world!!!!

>>26250901
you are fucking retarded bitcoin devs know exactly how bitcoin works it's just brainlets like you who spout this bullshit.

the network comprised of full nodes will not propagate illegal blocks. but the state of the ledger is still updated by the miners. full nodes maintain their own ledger and their shared reality by validating the miners work.

devs cant change the protocol without consensus from both full nodes and miners. it would just fuck everything up and at and create an other shitcoin.

>>26250837
>ledger state can not change just because miners mine a fucking block
yes it can. literally a new block changes the state of the ledger. are you clinically retarded?

>>26250837
>mining is not required to produce "valid chain".
Yes it is, a random miner creates the next block in the chain according to the rules every miner and node has in the client. Other miners and nodes propagate new blocks but can reject invalid blocks like if they're from other client versions. What is your point pajeet retard?

>>26250837
>the rules are ecdsa signature is required
rules are enforced ecdsa signature is not a required component of a bitcoin transaction.
it's just customary. but you can make valid transactions without signatures. the only thing bitcoin protocol enforces is that the sig-script must execute to true. whether it has a signature in it is irrelevant for the protocol.

educate yourself!

>>26251535
dunno he is just a stupid newfag or trying hard to troll. being confronted with such level of idiocy did make me mad i admit.

>>26251464
> by validating the miners work.

nice, you finally realize the PoW is a total waste for no added security

PoS coins have the same or higher security or for example AVAX which is better in all ways
and yet doesnt waste energy

you cant see further than your nose since you are a cult member of muh bit-coin

>>26246921
They are dumb nation states who just started doing so, as the difficulty rises they need to look into making changes needed to be competitive.

>>26251713
>nice, you finally realize the PoW is a total waste for no added security
but that's a total bullshit. because without the miners work there would be nothing to validate.

>>26247905
The manufacture of the söy enemas you constantly inject up your rectum cause more damage to the enviroment than BTC. Why are you shilling on /biz/ of all places? We're not even a threat to you like /pol/, and here you are antagonizing and making enemies of people who just want to grill.

>>26251535
> >mining is not required to produce "valid chain".
> Yes it is
One can make a protocol where "a valid chain" is determined by the full nodes according to rules which do not require PoW
and yet would still have better security properties than PoW provides

realize that PoW is only an incentive to play nice, not a security mechanism.

your coins are not more secure or less secure as hash-power goes up and down or as difficulty increases or decreases

in fact PoW is bad because it centralizes mining power into a few hands
bitcoin already had 1 hash-pool having more than 51% of the hash-rate
that means 1 actor had the power to produce an "invalid block" yet valid because it would have the most hash-power.

funny isnt it.

>>26251599
> did make me mad i admit.
because of cognitive dissonance
they told you "muh hash power keeps muh coin secure"
but now you are close to realize hash-power is a total fucking waste

>>26247905
cry more faggot

>>26251850
dude just shut the fuck up.
first of all i was talking about bitcoin. bitcoin requires mining there is no way around it. you are just stupid for saying otherwise.

avalanche is a leaderless voting consensus which are all trivial to sibyl so inherently fucking worthless. fuck off!

>>26251850
>your coins are not more secure or less secure as hash-power goes up and down
Yes they are. More people are ready to validate the correct rules and counter attempts to ddos the network with other rules.

>>26251774
>without the miners work there would be nothing to validate.

Block producers can be randomly selected, such as by VRF, or by weight stake uch as in myriad of PoS coins, or by random subsampling / votes as in AVAX.
There is many options, adding more security, yet not wasting energy.

The computation a miner does, is literally thrown away and forgotten as heat. Such is the value of mining - try so many permutations but throw away 99.99999% of them.
Note even if there "is magic value in generating sha sums which begin with 000s" if a miner decides to reward himself 100 coins and makes gaziliion energy waste doing that just to reward himself 100btc in that next block, its still invalid by other full nodes who did nothing. Meaning again, mining itself is valueless activity.

>>26251903
look its angry because it realized its internet money is not any more valuable inheretly than a random TikTok thots snatch

Just invent better hardware and stop the boomer oil industry from suppressing nuclear fusion.

>>26251903
> voting consensus which are all trivial to sibyl
you cant Sybil ecdsa. You cant fake signatures any more than you can fake bitcoin transactions and steal someones coin (without being a miner yourself).

>>26251903
> bitcoin requires mining
> hurr durr

You are as stupid, close-minded and stubborn as Greta Thunberg.

I haven't read any replies ITT because I am confident that you're all brainlets.

>>26251850
>that means 1 actor had the power to produce an "invalid block" yet valid because it would have the most hash-power.
It's a pool not one actor and the reason why devs stress running nodes is to increase robustness against these kinds of attacks. 51% of the mining power isn't the same thing as 51% of all nodes but the issue with nodes is how cheap it is to spam many of them. In an actual serious attack scenario the users choose which fork to value, there's no reason to value the attacking network over the real network unless it does a better job in which case the attack isn't really an attack.

>>26239100
Checked and keked

>>26252161
>It's a pool not one actor
stopped reading here.
fucktard stop writing here you obviously dont even know the basics of bitcoin mining and pools
stfu

>>26251969
>random
Means attacking the network by increasing your chances of being chosen costs nothing.
>staking
Means the cost to attack the network is measured in the thing the network is securing. That's circular logic. In practice it means anyone who cares to can own the entire network quickly and cheaply without the network growing to respond like the difficulty adjustment in btc does.
>>26252311
I mined with pools since 2013. If a pool starts doing something malicious everyone using it just stops using it.

>>26236479
And mining gold doesn't require fossil fuel?

>>26236479
good, let bitcoin do what america and europe couldnt do... let it destroy the middle east and make them powerless

>>26252503
exactly
https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuela-pays-imports-iran-turkey-bitcoin-evade-sanctions/

https://www.coindesk.com/iran-amends-law-to-allow-imports-to-be-funded-with-cryptocurrency

say what you want but these guys are at least trying to escape hyperinflation

>>26252068
the simplest explanation for a brainlet like you if you remove mining from bitcoin it's not bitcoin anymore. the nakamoto consensus is the only existing trustless permissionless and secure distributed consensus and is based on proof of work.

>you cant Sybil ecdsa.
you can sibyl validators and you can shove your ecdsa up your ass if the ledger says "your coins" never were.

>>26251969
>Block producers can be randomly selected
how do you validate random? you can't.
voting can be sibyled en of discussion.
proof of work is proof of stake you take your work. stake the money spent on your work as you produce a block.
but "consensus" bullshit ""random"" can't replace the time factor in mining which is provably random and statistical.

>>26251969
you went full retard. never go full retard!
that's like saying people racing each other is a meaningless activity because cheaters will be disqualified so technically a guy who didn't even ran could win if everyone else is disqualified.

full retard!

>>26252462
> increasing your chances of being chosen costs nothing.
he doesnt know what random means
he thinks he can increase his chances of rolling a six on a dice by really really wanting it

the chances of being selected and then producing a shitty block, is the same as chances somebody would invest in bitcoin mining equipment and then produce invalid blocks - only to be rejected by other full nodes

no that was all wrong, the chances of a nation state attacking bitcoin for shitz and gigglez is much bigger than selecting a bad actor randomly in say Algorand

inb4 "but whut if they are all bad actors huh", but whut if they are all bad miners huh

> I mined with pools since 2013.
and you still didnt know the pool operator is in control
must be one of those scientology cult minds you

>>26252580
> how do you validate random? you can't.
verifible random... oh its stoopid.

> voting can be sibyled en of discussion.
look at it, its like its upset and trying to calm itself like a baby sucking a thumb thinking its the real tit
"muh end of discussion" senpai

I'll be long dead when the shit hits the fan. Humans will always find a solution when that happens but right now there is no urgency so nothing will change.

>>26252857
>he doesnt know what random means
Why are you arguing about tech when you're not even literate?
>inb4 "but whut if they are all bad actors huh", but whut if they are all bad miners huh
With a pure random selection it costs nothing to increase your share of the validators. With pow you always have to commit to contributing a large amount of resources just to take part, any attempted attack is very expensive.
>and you still didnt know the pool operator is in control
Why do you think that? I said if the operator tries to do anything the contributors stop contributing.

>>26236479
hello yellen

Whole thread is 2 (1) guy baiting.

sink it.

>>26236479
it's worse than shit coins. I don't understand why everyone is obsessed with OG status. there's better coins. bitcoin is old, energy consuming and slow, not to mention expensive. it was a proof of concept in my opinion. get the software updates. you don't still use Netscape navigator?

>>26253003
The current global pandemic is the recent example. It takes 10 years to research, conduct clinical trials, get approval, etc for a vaccine. Currently we have 3+ vaccines and it took less than a year because organisations from around the world worked on a solution because the threat was urgent.

>>26253100
> any attempted attack is very expensive.
yet it still happened, miners refused halvening

the more expensive it is, it means only a few can actually mine which means bitcoin isnt a permisioneless but a permissioned one
right now that means you need to be connected to the jews $$ and power sources that is the permission-granted card to get in

> With a pure random selection it costs nothing to increase your share of the validators
Do it, go break algorand and retire
oh right its not so easy

>>26253154
>there's better coins
Name one.

>>26253229
AVAX
ETH2

>>26252984
you can't verify random

>>26253219
>yet it still happened, miners refused halvening
There are many more examples of actual attacks like bcash and their "operation dragonslayer". None even remotely successful.
>the more expensive it is, it means only a few can actually mine which means bitcoin isnt a permisioneless but a permissioned one
>right now that means you need to be connected to the jews $$ and power sources that is the permission-granted card to get in
Imagine if you were a real person that actually sincerely put those words together and not a baiting troll.
>go break algorand
It uses staking. You currently only need around $300 million to totally control it forever. If that was worth it to anyone like if it was an actual threat to anything that would be cheap.
Staking tokens is more "permissioned", you need something to trade and access to a seller. With pow all you need is hardware, hardware you can make.

>>26253219
>miners refused halvening
wtf are you smoking and what shitcoin are you even talking about?

>>26253409
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness_test

I wonder how it feels to live with an of IQ 85
how does it feel 7R? must be good right just blindly following a cult and feeling smug about it

like the special needs kids they dont know they are "special" kids

>>26253451
> You currently only need around $300 million to totally control it forever. If that was worth it to anyone like if it was an actual threat to anything that would be cheap.

bitcoin if it was a threat to anyone, would have been taken over in 2010 already after the wikileaks events
>>26253511
> wtf are you smoking and what shitcoin are you even talking about?
bitcoin, the first shitcoin
educate yourself, dumbass

>>26253608
no i mean you can't verify random pseudo random is a different matter what you are describing is basically a hash function. but for it to be random it has to have no input.

>>26253608
you also can1t run randomness test on any single sample. that's just retarded... but never mind. you already went full retard multiple times. you have no clue how consensus works.

>>26253660
"bitcoin miners refused halvening"
is this what you are actually saying?
are you out of your fucking mind or just came from an alternate reality?

>>26253660
>would have been
If it worked like you think it does which is not at all.
How would you take it over? I described how to defeat your "better" system. How do you do the same with Bitcoin in 2010? Unlike in pos you can't just buy up the limited amount of the tokens needed to be a validator. In pow you have to constantly maintain at great costs a malicious network that always outpaces real users and their attempts to circumvent you.

>>26251969
>The computation a miner does, is literally thrown away and forgotten as heat. Such is the value of mining
the value of mining is it adds time to the timeless chain and thus it becomes a timechain

>>26253743
I wouldnt expect a new idiot likeyourself to know bitcoin history
but in short 2 previous halving events, a block was produced with non-halved reward
a miner attempted to continue the 25btc reward instead of 12.5

it was ignored by others, simple as despite the miner having invested the energy required to produce that "valid block"

>>26251736
No. All they need is to buy more PC parts and use more electricity.

Mining BTC is hard and expensive for a regular citizen. For a government it's trivial to build a small coal/oil reactor or simply shut down a hospital if they need to. They have the money printers, the military and the international contacts to make it happen.

>>26236479
NANO is literally going to x100, at a minimum.

>>26253847
>How do you do the same with Bitcoin in 2010?
Invest a few million $ in ASICs, gain 90% monopoly on hash-power
Keep mining, make many pools, pretend there is "other miners", let some of them get some rewards
Send CIA goons against Gavin, hire Maxwell. Control dev team.
Control accomplished for less than $300m

>>26245717
Same, not going to live forever anyway so why waste your time with things that only affect people down the road 100+ years-

>>26253359
Irrelevant shitcoins. PoS can work if what you're staking is not the thing you're trying to secure. The pos contract system that survives will use bitcoin as the native staking token and function transparently as a second layer to bitcoin.
>>26254443
You didn't accomplish anything.
>gain 90% monopoly on hash-power
Irrelevant. Satoshi had 100% at one point. You have to constantly maintain the control at whatever cost the users dictate through demand. 90% one day is 10% the next and all that time you're paying for electricity. In pos any control you gain is permanent.
>cia murder plots and infiltration
You're not talking about the tech. These are things your alternatives are more vulnerable to, not less.

>>26236479
The more they burn for bitcoin the quicker its out of this world no? :)

>>26254682
> Irrelevant.
Great argument there. Wow such IQ.
> monopoly on hash-power is irrelevant.
Such wow amazing insight.
Thank you for participating.

>>26236479
I kinda felt the same concerns and dumped my btc for link going into this cycle, it at least isn't on Biden's agenda and the tech speaks for itself

>>26254373
>it was ignored by others
stupid cuck you btfo yourself

>>26255163
I told you PoW is useless and can and is ignored
Full nodes validate and enforce rules, not miners
just ask your dear Bitcoin Core Leader Devs

>>26254373
also how the fuck could that block be possibly valid? jesus you are truly braindead.
under consensus ruleset it was just plain invalid.

>>26255219
>Full nodes validate and enforce rules, not miners
full nodes enforce the ruleset by validating the miners work and discarding it if it's faulty.
without the miners here is nothing to validate.

>>26254968
>monopoly is irrelevant
You were supposed to show how you defeat the network without losing to the difficulty adjustment. All you showed was what I already described when I said this:
>In pow you have to constantly maintain at great costs a malicious network that always outpaces real users and their attempts to circumvent you.
>shitcoins are irrelevant
Yes that 2003 e-gold clone and bloated general purpose tech demo that ends up being nothing but glue for centralized oracles are irrelevant. Why would anyone think they're not?

>>26255306
here is the real deal with nodes.
the full validating nodes are a single layer of insulation in bitcoins security scheme. not the most critical just nice to have it adds to overall security and robustness and cleaner incentives but that's all.

1 it insulates miners from ddos attempts with bogus or dirt spam transactions as they would not be propagated.
2 it insulates non validating nodes form the miners.

other validating nodes do nothing for the individual validating node financial services tend to run. but them running their own fully validating node is important.

but in the end the fully validating nodes do not participate in the nakamoto consensus. they just ensure that the incentive structure of the nakamoto consensus is more robust than without them. that's all they do.

>>26236736
A put option gives you the right, but not the obligation to sell a coin at a predetermined value. Usually you would buy a put option if you believe the price is to go down, so you could buy the coin at the price it falls to, but then sell it at the predetermined value for profit

>>26255238
>under consensus ruleset
People can make a >> consensus ruleset >> which doesnt include "burn energy hurr durr burn energy hurr"

fucking retard

>>26256007
you can try go ahead brainlet!
see if you gain consensus...
but here is a funny thing once you fuck with the nakamoto consensus you can't even determine superior consensus objectively anymore.

>>26255558
> You were supposed to show how you defeat the network without losing to the difficulty adjustment.

When you have > 51% you control the difficulty adjustment, and price, and if you are nation-state also the developers (github keys, forums) etc.

Had glowies performed the attack in 2010, you would not have noticed at all and would still be cheerleading "muh bitcoin".

All the way until glowies decide, well inflation is now on the menu for us. Miners produce blocks rewarding 100btc each, full nodes fuck off. What you gonna do? Cheerlead on.

>>26255306
> full nodes enforce the ruleset by validating the miners work and discarding it if it's faulty.
OK, miners can always decide to produce "invalid" blocks forever, what then? Mr miners must produce valid blocks.

> not the most critical just nice to have it adds to overall security and robustness and cleaner incentives but that's all.
this is another way of saying Glowies who control bitcoin and its ecosystem, can flip from "miners area in power 1 cpu 1 vote" to "users full nodes is in power" when it suites their interests.
This what you said is another way of saying "fuck all consensus rules its just about what people community market agree upon".

bitcoin the ultimate shit coin

>>26237171
Yes.

>>26256007
also how do you propose objectively reaching a trustless permisisonless and secure fully distributed consensus on time (and also ordering of events) without proof of work?

bitcoin also uses proof of work for fair distribution/issuance of new coins don't forget that! simply ordering the events i not enough for bitcoin. you have to have a link with physical reality and time without any source of authority.

go on... and mind that you could be surrounded almost completely by dishonest nodes on a mesh network. that's why getting sibyled means. dishonest nodes can easily outnumber honest nodes.

>>26240653
>if we stop mining bitcoin, bitcoin disappears and becomes unusable
>if we stop mining bitcoin
>if we as a species stop using computers
ngmi, even after a nuclear holocaust the survivors would be making use of what computers remained

>>26238633
Every single time

>>26256083
> see if you gain consensus...

There was consensus according to your "muh bitcoin miners full nodes muh"
A valid transaction was produced which created 21 gorillion new BTC due to an overflow bug.
All miners validated it, all full nodes validated it as A FUCKING OK valid transaction.

Muh ledger immutable block chain.

You know what happened dont you?
Who reverted the chain, was it the glowies or ((them)) or both?
Just like that at the snap of a finger. Thanos style.

>>26256212
>OK, miners can always decide to produce "invalid" blocks forever, what then?
bitcoin network stalls, but the miners are heavily incentivized to defect this consensus that produces nothing just burns money. even if a single miner defects he will be rewarded with all the block rewards. you can also expect fees going skyhigh on a stalled or even slowed network. someone will mine a valid block.

you really don't understand the first thing about bitcoin?

>>26256212
the nakamoto consensus is pretty clearly defined. it's not up for your interpretation. it is validated by software not soibois.

iran doesn't have a rothschilds central bank thats why thr us is going to war with it

>>26256420
>A valid transaction was produced which created 21 gorillion new BTC due to an overflow bug.
bugs can only be "fixed" by social consensus that's the last resort. people could have decided not to download the fix. but they would be pretty stupid to do so.
miners could also have decided not to download the fix and users who did would only seen a staling network.
probably it would have been a chain split tho as 100% consensus would never been reached on such controversial decision.

just fucking try to learn how bitcoin works and leave us the fuck alone!

>>26256420
>Who reverted the chain
the miners did

>>26256319
> also how do you propose objectively reaching

AVAX.
ETH2.

> fair distribution/issuance of new coins don't forget that
its not fair when 100 people knew about it for an entire year, they mined 1 million of the 21 supply. FUCKING JOKE.
any premined shitcoin is better than that.

> any source of authority.
oh, sweet little summer child, he still thinks there isnt a single source of authority behind every fart and bart of bitcoin.

> avax sybils
Eclipse attack a node, big deal, just like eclipsing a bitcoin node. You cant forge signatures. Thats what the stake in PoS means, AVAX consensus requires the stake ie the amount of coins a node owns, to be signed with that address for its vote to matter.
Eclipse attack an AVAX node, try to feed it fake signatures, it will just reject them since it doenst know about them.

To successfully sybil or eclipse an avax node, you would have to break ecdsa, which if you do, you also own ALL THE BITCOINS of everyone.

reading nocoiner cope, particularly as it relates to the enivronmental impact of bitcoin, is so fucking satisfying

keep crying please

>>26256212
>When you have > 51% you control the difficulty adjustment
As soon as you try to alter anything the 49% know that's happening and can take actions. Experience with mitigating DOS attacks has developed a lot in the last decade. A last resort is a hard fork.
In a similar situation with pos there's no separation of concerns, the users of the tokens are the stakers/miners.
>, and price
What the fuck happened to your brain? If you're serious there's no chance you're white.
>What you gonna do?
Use a working chain instead.

chia.network

>>26256431
> bitcoin network stalls,

is this why the bitcoin network stalled? because of such a perfect and great system.
uncensorable even.
I sent a transaction and payed a high fee in May 2017,
the transaction was stuck in mempool for weeks before being dropped.
nobody in 2021 sends btc between exchanges everyone uses other coins since btc is both high fee and unreliable, censorable even.

> it is validated by software
why humans reverted it then? my 21 gorrilioons btc was software valid.

>>26250834
That only applies to nuclear power plants. Or "green" energy plants, like wind/solar. All of it is possible to balance, through storing the energy and it's not like power demand is random, it has patterns, so it is known when the peaks and throughs happen and you can plan accordingly. Also, expanding the network makes it easier to balance(inter country networks).
I personally agree, that it could be a sort of a solution, but it doesn't really make sense right now. Also still wasteful, as you'd need to have hardware that's running only "sometimes" and that depreciates relatively quickly. So you end up with piece of scrap without a purpose(asics?)
I was personally thinking of balancing the home energy needs with this, if I were to use solar panels for electricity generation instead of selling the excess power to the network. Also it'd be great if you could replace water/house heating with mining hardware. Again, problem is depreciation and repurposing.
It makes a lot of sense, if you incorporate heat waste into something productive. It would double as monetary system that is pegged against actual basic needs of everyone(warmth). Cities could easily incorporate the heat waste into heating up the water.

>>26256595
when miners have so much influence over bitcoin

why dont they stop PoW and instead decide among themselves how rewards will be split and who will write the next block, without wasting energy?
why do they continue burning our climate and earth to the ground
when they can in fact agree and "achieve consensus" without burning energy?
huh punk?

>>26236479
boo hoo nigga you tryna get this money or not?

Is there a private coin without PoW?

>>26256769
>perfect and great system.
Flawed and slow process but the only one in history that enforces scarcity on a digital asset.
Proof of stake is not new, it existed before Bitcoin and was tried many times with the same kinds of failures every time. I was paying for pizzas using a small private currency in 1998. It was shut down just like every other attempt until Bitcoin.

>>26257003
What do you mean private like monero?
Yes there is but I aint tellin

>>26257043
>I was paying for pizzas using a small private currency in 1998
wait what?

>>26256848
miners downloading the fix did and making the new chain outpace the old chain in proof of work did. obviously the devs fixed the bug. but the miners had to download it and run it. knowing very well they will lose block rewards they already won on the old chain.

>>26256848
>when they can in fact agree and "achieve consensus" without burning energy?

that was not possible in a trustless permisisonless and distributed way before bitcoin. and it's probably still not possible outside of bitcoin. shitcoins have yet to prove themselves to worth a damn.

>>26257043
>enforces scarcity on a digital asset.
I thought you only liked to suck the dick of bitcoin maxis like maxwell but it seems you like to be deep throated

Here is a scarce digital asset, a part of it, this one is so scarce, there is only 1 of it in existence and no more can ever be created. The most scarce! EVER!

1SuKYxD64nfvhdDsYNEP8PftoBMqgusdPS

Federal reserve is a more direct threat to the planet and humanity than climate change.

>>26256848
>why dont they stop PoW and instead decide among themselves how rewards will be split and who will write the next block, without wasting energy?

that's actually a hilarious idea... someone should make a comic about it. i would pay 1 btc if it's good.

>>26257209
he proceeds to type that
just 3 posts earlier he typed "well duh there was a software bug so humans reached consensus"

omfg, just rope yourself now or get a vasectomy ffs.

>>26236479
Who gives a fuck what shitskins do or think? They burn oil fucking their nephews over there, why the fuck would I care if they are helping me make money?

>>26257271

Satoshi would come back :) with a big dick

>>26256420
>All miners validated it, all full nodes validated it
What are you talking about though? There's no mention of this anywhere. If all the clients validated it that would be the main chain today.
>>26256848
>why dont they stop PoW and instead decide among themselves how rewards will be split and who will write the next block
How?
>when they can in fact agree and "achieve consensus"
How?
>>26257220
That's a 4chan post. You have no ownership over it or reason to think it will continue to exist. Why don't you even try to understand anything said? Why are you posting about things you have no clue about and refuse to consider? These things you're disputing are working now, you're proven retarded by the actual system.

>>26257271
since you lost all previous arguments, lets enter a new one.

imagine my retarded dude
if a miner developed a mathematical technique for solving the next block
requiring miniscule energy input

just pure mathematics, calculations taking 5s
a breakthrough if you will

would such a miner tell you, tell the world? and lose out on profits but earn respect and a honorable doctors degree

no, keep selling coins to you, dumb fuck.
you cant verify energy is spent but you would still be buying hash sums.

>>26257323
There wasn't but if there was long term consensus on the rules is easier to establish than to secure a way for validators to be resistant to attacks. Nobody who has interest in securing the value of the token disagrees that they want a secure ledger. There's no lack of consensus there.

>>26242145
Very interested in this please tell me all about it if you have time

>>26257323
>well duh there was a software bug so humans reached consensus"

yes social consensus about the protocol itself. but the protocol uses proof of work to reach consensus on the ledger.

software can't directly validate human consensus. bitcoin consensus is many fold.

but the nakamoto consensus uses proof of work to determine the valid ledger. it doesn't really care or know about the underlying social consensus.

>>26257392
> If all the clients validated it that would be the main chain today.

It is the main chain. Stalled. Dead.

The new chain is the one which broke bitcoin nakamoto consensus and is based instead on "somehow people agree" outside of "1 cpu 1 vote" outside of Satoshi nakamotos whitepaper. See other examples I mentioned where nakamoto consensus is overriden by "market forces" "developers" "but muh value"

Nakamoto consensus, replaced by access to github private keys and forum admin passwords.

The new bitcoin is the ultimate shitcoin

>>26257443
>since you lost all previous arguments
no such thing happened except maybe in your head. see we don't have consensus on the simplest things.

>>26257547
> software can't directly validate human consensus

nice. then we can agree to stop wasting fucking energy and use PoS or Algorand or AVAX instead. whenever shit happens, let humans decide anyway.
deal?

>>26257443
>if a miner developed a mathematical technique for solving the next block
>requiring miniscule energy input
One miner generating all the hashes means the hashing function is broken and there's a response plan for that.
>>26257559
>See other examples
You're not sourcing anything. When did this happen and how did you learn about it?
>Nakamoto consensus, replaced by access to github private keys and forum admin passwords.
Devs and user consensus was always part of the system. Again why are you talking about these things when you haven't done any research or given any of this the slightest thought?

>>26257672
>whenever shit happens
As soon as you rely on a pos token validated by staking itself irrecoverable shit has already happened.

>>26257791
> a response plan for that.

again you resort to ((their)) consensus method and the glowies making decisions instead of "muh PoW"

nice, real nice. all that PoW is absolute shit wasted for nothing, when there are people with "a response plan".

> be bitcoin maximalist
> Proof-of-Work is greatest ever invented consensus
> muh miners muh coins

> whenever consensus is required
> resort to scheming humans in shadows calling the shots
> hurr durr its just the way it is

take that bitcoin maxi dick deeper you stinkin useless faggots