/biz/ - Business & Finance

The simple way around this is to subsidize businesses who net under 'x' amount and discourage downsizing to avoid this loophole by incentivizing success

I agree that minimum wage probably needs to increase, but the idea that minimum wage should be the same in california and arkansas makes absolutely no sense to me.

Low wages are literally like 99% of every problem in the US, caused by the government who have convinced people they are the answer to fixit

Sorry, dipshit here. Won’t raising wages cause everything else in the world to increase in price? So that those making more than minimum wage no longer can afford shit?

the fixations on “increasing the minimum wage” and “taxing the rich” are deliberately obfuscatory and incapable of solving the root issues of iniquity. it’s just a psyop but it’s a waste of time trying to explain this to diehard midwits who sincerely believe they’re “fighting the power” by pushing for these useless initiatives while simultaneously burning every bridge to actual wealth the common man has left

>>26174607
Minimum wage increases are going to start scaling with inflation

>>26174650
Thnx

>>26174650
So, hyperinflation then?

Yeah like when trump made trillions in tax cuts to huge corps and now the price of everything went down and unemployment is at an all time low!

You fucking dumbass

>>26174793
It was always going to come to this, let’s accelerate.

IMO lower wages isnt the issue its lack of job skill which is the point of the meme up there.
there are people on youtube that just build what is essentially useless garbage like dioramas and swords because it makes a nice ASMR craffting video, yet these people RAAAAAAAAAKKKKEEE in the money through various support sites. if people went into trade schools they would be better off in the long run, yet that leads into the self responsibility/individualism argument

>>26174479
thank you, we're already bailing out and giving tax breaks to these faggot big corps so why not incentivize actual wealth accumulation

>>26174324

>be small /biz/ness
>payroll expenses go up 2%
>go bankrupt

Stop believing this horseshit, rich people just want to pay you less and you're defending it

>>26174324
prices have already risen minimum wage needs to keep up

>>26174324
Maybe if they let the natural deflation take course no wages would need to be raised.

LETS ABOLISH MINIMUM WAGES!!!

>>26174489
minimum wage should be a state issue not a national issue

>>26174324
And guess who will become unemployable? The cheap immigrant work force. And the US is not about welfare. $15 min wage is the sneaky way dems will get rid of their immigrant problem. They are currently held hostage by the immigrant vote, which has diametrically opposed interests to the local working class and middle class. Democrats are soon forced to pick between the immigrant vote and the worker+middle class vote and they can’t afford that, the only way forward is limiting immigration, and turning back to supporting the working class economically and the middle class with moderate progressivism. So this is what they are doing.
Don’t ever think republicans want to limit immigration, they are the ones making bank from cheap labor. (Sure, top dem politicians too, but not their voters)

>>26174489
What about the fact that a mom and pop store will have a much harder time finding that minimum wage compared to a store like wallgreens

>>26174489
It’s a federal minimum wage. By the time it gets to $15 it will be 25 in California, unironivally

>>26174324
Total destruction of the US economy incoming.
I hope those who voted for the Dem assholes are happy

>>26175343
>I hope those who voted for the Dem assholes are happy
Pretty sure they will cause a pandemic any time their economic policies go to shit.

>>26175288
Get a load of this retard that thinks spics are paid anything but cash under the table

>>26174882
Lol unemployment was record low before covid, you mong.

>>26174324
/pizbol/ discussing US economics without racebaiting challenge

>>26174324
Funny how “law” of supply and demand doesn’t work when minimum wage is concerned so communist faggots have To stick their nose in everyone’s business.

>>26174645
They are intentionally pandering to retards. That’s why they are opening the borders wide open and giving amnesty to 11 million illegals. These people are absolute retards. And then locking down citizens. My only hope is they are doing this to hasten the downfall rather then slow boil everyone.

>>26175426
Yes at scale they don’t. There are few enough illegals working for untaxed pay that it’s not the big issue, and it’s in sectors where there’s not that much money anyway. But the low-but-decent working class being competed out for real jobs by desperate immigrants is the reason behind the opioid epidemic, it’s killing the local working class.

I've got a solution:

stop outsourcing overseas and importing immigrants to dilute the supply of labor

problem solved.

>>26175389
This. Ccp libtards are too stupid to realize reality and easily flipped from one narrative to another.

>>26174479
But this is already done because poor employed people are already subsidized directly with gibs.

>>26174324
You already can't live on the 10$ minimum wage in the USA, there are so many businesses exploiting workers right now
I myself used to make minimum wage for a job I was overqualified
Luckily I was independent enough to quit after a few years but there is a substantial amount of people that work just to pay the bills in this country
The increase to 15$ is not the solution but neither is the exploitation of poor fucks that don't know better and are stuck in that kind of situations

>>26174526
Low wages are literally like 99% of every problem in the US
No, those are the jews

>>26174607
a bit, but not completely. some prices will remain stable as workers who were worth the previous wage, but not worth the new wage, will be replaced by outsourcing, automation, and black market labor (think illegal immigrants working for below minimum wage and without many other employment expenses like healthcare). More than inflation, the greater effect is unemployment of anyone who is not worth hiring at the new wage.

The most pernicious thing about it, is that people who are unemployed become dependent on gibs. And the same party that advocates the high minimum wages and illegal immigration that causes the unemployment, also offers the most gibs. So their rational self interest is to create higher unemployment, so that more people will need to vote for them. We saw this in Detroit, when the share of votes for the Democratic party increased due to decades of horrible one-party mismanagement destroying the city making more people dependent on gibs.

>>26174324
>He doesn't know the government creates regulations and minimum wage shit for self preservation
All those boomers and black women have to justify their payroll

>>26176251
>saw this in detroit
wouldn't surprise me if its the same in L.A, Atlanta, St Louis and other gib heavy "blue zones"
>Mismanagement
the more I read into these policies and outcomes the more obvious it becomes that its all purposefully designed to fallout this way wherever this stupid "Welfare State" spreads to.
i understand safety nets but at some people it becomes apparent someone is abusing the system and there are those that don't need/deserve anything

>>26175706
>stop outsourcing overseas and importing immigrants to dilute the supply of labor
importing immigrants isn't about economics, its
more of a social issue aka white genocide

>>26175130
>pull random number out of asshole

>>26176874
however it would still increase wages and correct the issue by reducing the supply of labor therefore increasing its value.

>>26174324

If you’re business isn’t profitable enough to pay someone enough to eat then you’re too stupid to be in business.

>>26175706

Do you have a problem with capitalism?

>>26174324
Leftoids literally subsidize poverty with welfare, they don't give a shit

>>26174324
Who cares. Robots will take the jobs and kill capitalism. No wages = no capitalism.

This is good.

>>26177401
>Only big businesses should exist

I remember when minimum wage was introduced here in Germany and basically nothing changed because it turned out the great majority of business owners could afford it without problem and where just exploiting low level workers bc they are greedy.

>>26174324
They'll just get replaced by robots. All part of the plan.

>>26177401
how is it the businesses' issue weather you eat or not. owner has to eat food too. do we not create anymore new businesses now?

>>26177794
>weather
retard lol

Please outlaw free internships.
I want to stop working for free

>>26174324
minimum wage has been an institution in this country for a very long time. A raise to 15$ doesn't even keep up with inflation. You are admitting to being a sociopath who wants 12+hr work days and third world tier wages. This was the condition of the gilded age. If your business can't afford it that means you're not profitable enough anyways and should compete harder. Pull up your bootstraps poor little bootlicker.

Minimum wage in urban and suburban areas should be 16 dollars, so that no one will qualify for welfare and niggers will stop having kids.

Minimum wage in rural areas should be 9 dollars, so white rednecks can have infinite kids abusing welfare.

>>26177926
>A raise to 15$ doesn't even keep up with inflation
Already starting with this shit? If 15/hr becomes law you will just ask for 25/hr after that, and then automation happens and wages don't matter

>>26174324
I just spend 30 mins on that god damn page.

>>26174324
Yes this is how civilisation works. If you follow your argument you’d create a race to the bottom of wages, safety regulations, environmental regulations, social responsibility, etc etc.

>>26178117
ahistorical position. You are demanding our people live in squalor like the 19th century by not supporting an inflation adjusted minimum wage. Anons on this board bitch all the time about inflation but when it comes to our pay some of them ignore the question. Why? Why do you want to make less money? Why don't you want the right to negotiate your wage fairly with real economic leverage to use on the bargaining table? For that matter 25$ barely keeps up with inflation. (I'm not proving your point you're ignoring inflation.) My grandfather went to electricians school, bought a house, a truck and supported his family on minimum wage. Why would you deny white families this future?

>>26177603

Only businesses that are competitive and dynamic should exist. I’m sure all kinds of shitty boomer cash cow businesses went under when we outlawed child labor or instituted the 8hr day.

>>26174882
Trump would've won easily without the virus

>>26177659

It’s the same here. It’s literally no different than all the kvetching they did with child labor laws, living wages, safety regarding, the 8hr work day, etc.

>>26174324
>you also create a minimum amount of money a business MUST make in order to even hire a team of workers
...and? if my company is making one dollar, I should be allowed to hire starving people paying them in food and keep the dollar? I think in order to hire a worker, making a minimum amount of money off of good business practices should generally be a requirement, yes.

>>26177812
>if you're business
Retard Lol

And then we build new businesses.

/thread

>>26178117
>people will ask for their wages to keep up with the Fed’s money printer
What a socialist nightmare

>>26174324
the funny part about that meme is that jerrys cousing whoops their asses

question is, who is jerrys cousin IRL?

>>26174479
Oh ok is that the simple way? I thought the simple way was to give women and basedmen power to make random regulations they theorize will help with zero understanding of economics and never reading a book on it but still doing what they consider to be their duty kind of like nurses who prescribe meds as if these alcoholic whores know what meds people should take

>>26178362
Super corporations can take the hit and have the capital to survive even $30/hr minimum wage.

Regardless, big businesses such as Amazon go around minimum wage and other labor laws COMPLETELY with loopholes such as no contracts, abusive part time, and simply having the money to invent and purchase automation and AI for a lot of their work.

Meanwhile, small competitors all die. In short, higher minimum wage is a massive gain for Amazon and Wal-Mart.

>>26178575

Are the small businesses too stupid to hire people with no contract?

"By December 2020, U. S. M1 money supply had increased by 55% since February. 35% of all U. S. dollars in existence had been printed in 10 months. Literally parabolic at this point." Qouting an anon from /pmg/ Minimum wage increases aren't even wages right now. I remember reading that inflation adjusted compared to the 1960s it should be like 22$ or so and that was last year. Accounting for the most recent modern monetary retardation it should probably be closer to 30$ by now. Anyone arguing against this is either benefiting from the blood of honest Americans themselves or doesn't understand basic economics.

>>26177878
Then don’t do it. Nobody is forcing you to

>>26178575
..And I don't have to explain what these Monopolies do to pricing and hiring once they become monopolies.

>>26178632

>>26174324
>then: "heh, maybe you should have gotten the right degree if you wanted to not die of starvation on the street? Heh, better luck next time kid."
>now: "I can't believe you guys are doing a communism, this is so unfair!"

The west dug its own grave, gonna enjoy watching this situation devolve from a safe distance lmao.

>>26174479
End central banks. End the fiat cartel.

>>26178632
This. Every important asset for wealth preservation/accumulation has skyrocketed while wages remain the same for 20 years. I’m convinced the V shape rebound since March hasn’t really been an economic recovery, just the market pricing in 30% inflation for the year plus trillions in stimulus and QE. Makes me unironically think stocks are dirt cheap considering everything should be up at least 30% this year but who knows

>>26178612
Mega corporations have the entire process streamlined to a well-oiled machine with a whole suite of lawyers. It's a whole different beast.

>>26178712

Feel free to start paying people with cowrie shells, retard.

>>26178753

If small businesses really are this pathetic then there’s no reason for them to be in business I guess. Big business is big because it’s the best at serving customers.

>>26174479
>subsidize
Fuck out of here

>>26178575
This is the other problem I agree. I mentioned competitiveness up there too as an argument. But not all small businesses are magically uncompetitive either. The market is fixed by oligarchs using the state and monopolistic practices to prop up their oligopolies. They force small businesses into greater and greater leveraged debt positions while sucking up all the value for themselves. Companies like Amazon and Walmart need broken up and the minimum wage should be inflation adjusted. And hell, to help the small businesses who have been fucked over. How about this, instead of just breaking these monopolies up? Why don't we portion off parts of them to local small business owners and liquidate assets that don't fit as a one time citizens dividend like in Alaska?

>>26174882
>Yeah like when trump made trillions in tax cuts to huge corps and now the price of everything went down and unemployment is at an all time low!

Covid totally had nothing to do with that

>>26178818
>because it’s the best at serving customers
That's until they become monopolies and raise the prices. See what mega corporations do right after purchasing its competitors

>>26178836
>Companies like Amazon and Walmart need broken up and the minimum wage should be inflation adjusted. And hell, to help the small businesses who have been fucked over. How about this, instead of just breaking these monopolies up? Why don't we portion off parts of them to local small business owners and liquidate assets that don't fit as a one time citizens dividend like in Alaska?

Why don’t you just collectivize the masses too while you’re at it

>>26178879
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBffKzWECUQ
You will all be slaves

>>26178932

We’re already slaves to capital owners.

>>26178879

Just stop buying from Amazon then. Go pay higher prices and put up with limited selection so the Boomer down the street can stay in business.

>>26178323
>Why? Why do you want to make less money?
Brainlet argument stopped reading there
>>26178475
Fed should be abolished but that's an issue most of the fight for 15 people even realize exists. Fighting inflation by increasing the minimum wage is retarded considering the side affect is shit costs more
>>26178362
8 hr day was pioneered by Ford, child labor laws arguably exist to keep the teenage unemployment rate so high

>>26176874
>importing immigrants isn't about economics, its
more of a social issue aka white genocide

Please tell me how importing hundreds of thousands of desperate workers with no standards to work for illegally low wages not an economic issue.

>>26174324
no one is forcing anyone at gunpoint to start a business. if you don't factor in minimum wage's impact you are the most low iq form of slave driving jew

>>26179021
Watch the video. Mega corporations sell at such a loss that is impossible for smaller newer competitors to survive. Mega corporations can do it because they have the massive piggy bank to survive selling at a loss for many years.

Once their competitors pull up the white flag and let itself be bought or simply disappear, the monopoly now raises the prices and make the money roll in. Mega-corporations have the money to play the long game, and they do this over and over again. This practice is in the "almost illegal" legal gray area and they have the lawyers to do this unscathed.

>>26174645
I feel the term “midwit” is a little complementary. These people are absolute retards.

>>26178985
You can't say the c-word on here!
>A spectre is haunting 4channel

>>26179180

Welcome to capitalism; enjoy your stay.

>>26178774
bruh people were paid with USD before 1913

>>26174650
Yes, but it will take a little while for the inflation to kick in. During this time many small businesses will close shop and the mega corps will acquire and even greater market share.

>>26178818
At first businesses grow by offering the best service yes. But when they get big enough if there isn't enough civic engagement or law and order they can price fix other equally or even more competitive businesses out of the market. Monopolies don't have to offer the best services because they muscle everyone out of the market artificially.

Price fixing as aforementioned but corruption is a favorite tool they use too. They'll pay politicians through lobbying (legal corruption) to write "regulations" that only really hinder their competition and not them. An example would be. Monopoly X establishes its own internal safety standard that costs a lot of money for a new business but is marginal for them. Monopoly X then lobbies to make their standard the legal industry standard. More competitive small business Y offers a better service and isn't unsafe but is outlawed from participating because they can't afford the new standard.

This is where the hookup with regulation comes from aswell. Some regulations a long time ago were created to stop steel mill monopolies from dumping acidic waste into the water supply. Another good regulation in history was outlawing child labor. Now most regulations are created so that a corporation who can afford 100 bureaucrats to "inspect" their production lines can kick other corporations out of the market who can't. This sounds inefficient but if the monopoly can make more buy hiring 100 fake inspectors and running a shitty service than it would by running a good service the monopoly will choose to run the shitty service. Not all regulation is inherently bad. The primary problem is political corruption leading to corrupt regulations.

>>26179175
In the future you will be forced to work as a mega-corporation employee or starve. It will be so prohibitively expensive to compete or start a small business that you will have no option but to be an employee. Knowing this, the monopolies will give you slave wages because they know you have no independent alternatives.

Deus Ex is simply a game but it's dead correct on knowing that the closure of small businesses will mean slavery to the corporation plutocracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAp8juBte0

>>26178897
Non-sequiter. Evading the argument

>>26176251
cl_gibcount 999999

>>26179227
So are you going to fight against these monopolies, or are you going to continue mocking small businesses and lick the Amazon and Wal-Mart boots?

>>26175218

Based

>>26174324
>thousands of restaurants and bars in new york
>people are surprised when some go out of business

What the fuck did you think was going to happen? This city is over-saturated in restaurants.

Turns out that making your business 99% dine-in wasn't a good idea, adapt or go broke.

fake and gay

>>26179460

Small time kikes vs big time kikes, who cares?

>>26178818
>Wtf why don't businesses live up to my arbitrary standards
C'mon man!

>>26179537
you just lost all credibility

https://stocktwits.com/symbol/CLF

Your a loser if you don't invest in the breakout of a 7 year constant lol

The steel supercycle is here

>>26174882
except that's exactly what happened, until democrats and china decided to destroy the economy over the flu.

>>26179396
oh god the lag

>>26175141
No, keep wagies poor.

>>26179381
based af

>>26179537
>>26179613
Let me explain further why you lost credibility.

The problem is that I pointed out how monopolies forming is the biggest source of the malaise of late-stage Capitalism, and the best solution is to fight the Monopolies through anti-trust regulations.

Meanwhile all you do is shrug and say "well that's Capitalism!" like a sitcom one-liner joke and just proceed to suggest small companies to shut down because they simply suck (ignoring how they "suck" only because the monopolies do predatory pricing and other unfair and under-regulated anti-competitive practices).

>>26176531
>its all purposefully designed

we've all heard Hanlon's razor,
"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".
But when people make stupid mistakes, they quickly stop putting their hand in the fire. I'd say,
"never attribute to malice or stupidity, that which is clearly explained by a long pattern of rational self-interested behavior".
It's not as catchy, but it's better at describing political decisions.

>>26179964

Okay Boomer, sorry your cash cow will go under because you might actually have to *pay* your workers. I literally don’t care. If you read my earlier posts you know I said we’re already slaves to capital owners anyway. Makes no difference to me if it’s the greedy fuck down the street or Bezos.

>>26174324
I'd rather have a minimum wagie work for me than a fag who doesn't know how to keep /pol/ threads where they belong.
>>>/pol/

>>26179964

Also interesting how your solution to a problem arising from capitalism is a government regulation. Sounds like socialism to me.

>>26175269
This. Also if UBI becomes a thing then minimum wage laws should be removed.

>>26175706
This is why I champion automation.

>>26175288
This is either very high level bait or extreme retardation. Read at your own risk.

>>26180435
government regulation =/= socialism
socialism is worker ownership of the means of production. Read a book

>>26174324
min wage increases should be proportional by state but enforced by federal.
>youngrippa59
fucking lmao

>>26180766
Socialism is when goberment do thing

>>26175557

>>26180390
Your comment has absolutely no substance. Just random word babbling.

>>26180435
I never said I was a hardcore unapologetic capitalist. Being Ancap is pretty idiotic. I used to be one, but over the years I grew to accept that anti-trust and anti-monopolisitc regulations are some regulations that would be great for capitalism.

Meanwhile I oppose those that believe it's better to go full socialist or full communist. Eradicating monopolies gets rid of a ton of symptoms of late stage Capitalism, and it's way simpler than going full socialist.

Nice try but unfortunately for you, that comment was not a "gotcha" moment as you might've hoped.

>>26180892
are you mocking me or....? "=/=" means "does not equal." I could also be autistic, you might be joining in to mock the other guy

discussing government policy online is sure to change people's opinions and alter the direction of the entire nation
>I am important
>I am heard
>I matter

>>26180766

Lmao, the entire GOP thinks socialism is when the government repairs a road.

>>26180999

I don’t know how to make this any clearer- I don’t care. You can seethe all you want about your business going under. I literally don’t care what happens between two greedy fucks battling it out.

>>26181006
the latter, yes

>>26181109
Wasn't talking to you. And again- this comment has zero substance as well.

Eradicating monopolies and multinational conglomerates will make Capitalism livable again. We don't have to go full socialist and it's much less effort and simpler.

>Lmao, the entire GOP thinks socialism is when the government repairs a road.
Pretty poor strawman. Most small government proponents (barring Ancap extremists) believe the governments should still do the very basic services such as postal service and infrastructure. Most of the fight comes over government programs, wars, etc.

>>26181117
https://www.webmshare.com/play/0o4je

>>26181006
>are you mocking me?

>>26176118
Just checking in from /pol/ and it didn't take long to feel at home.

>>26175733
Yet trump allowed the pandemic to happen the first time. You migapedes are all the same. How is israel going goy?

>>26181314

You fucking autist, keep rambling. I already told you I don’t care what happens either way. You sure seem to take this pretty seriously.

>>26180687
I bet you could come up with a convincing counter argument then.

>>26181006

>>26174324
Why do burgers always vote against their own best interests?
>Minimum wage going up
>But fox news told me that is bad
>Votes for party that makes them have less money

You fucking migapedes are the most compliant sheep in the universe. You literally watch your BoomerTV and think that what Tucker Cucksen says is true, not realising that they are selling you a narrative to make you vote a certain way.

Burgers will get the fucking rope this century.

>>26174324

Get the fuck back to /pol/ nigger.

>>26174607
that would only happen if everyone got their money from minimum wage work. most income is from capital gains, or salary/wages far above the minimum. so it should raise the price of things made by minimum wage workers, but only by a small amount.

keep in mind that the minimum wage has not kept up with inflation by a longshot. 2020 alone probably caused a 20% loss in everyone’s pay just from the dollar they get paid in going down in value. some industries (like servers) haven’t seen an average pay increase in 30 years.

>>26182060

You have it entirely backwards and wrong

>DURR HURR THE PARTY THAT HAS ALL OF THE INSTITUTIONS OF POWER AND MESSAGING SAYS THIS THING, THAT MEANS THIS THING MUST BE CORRECT AND I'M TOTALLY NOT GETTING USED AND PLAYED THEY JUST REALLY LOVE ME

>>26174324
The rest of the western world already uses living wage as a measure. It isn't collapsing.

>>26174898
minimum wage isnt for industrious, entrepenuer-minded people. it’s to make sure the less crafty in our society aren’t living like animals. human beings should be treated with respect, and i don’t like being part of a society that doesn’t give a shit about its dumb people.

Raising the minimum wage doesn't increase the cost of good proportionally, there have been numerous economic studies on this, it doesn't cause notable inflation. This is a boomer meme intended to keep their labour costs low and has no bearing in real economics.

>>26174324
>incoming fascistic economy
Lol

>>26181870
If you don't care then leave. bro..

>>26174324
>fascistic
kek

>>26175557
american workers are miseducated on purpose to make them easier to exploit. when has any school ever taught you how to negotiate for the best possible salary, or how to calculate what pay you absolutely need to cover your expenses, or what pay level you should never accept because it undercuts other people in your industry and drains the collective bargaining power of workers across the board? of course they would never teach you that, because then you might demand a higher salary. minimum wage is a way of making up for that lack of financial education.

>>26181780
Please go back

The military will always be glad to enlist the newly unemployed.

Why do you faggots care about this shit? This does not affect you unless you're running a sweatshop in America

>>26177794
wow, you’re just a really stupid person. this is glowie level retardation here.

i should remind everyone that the rich would rather pay people to propagandize the poor into accepting lower wages than to just pay that money to their workers instead. when people talk about glowies posting on 4chan, this is what they’re talking about.

>>26180599
that'll only happen when the right stops being obsessed with free market, israel, and niggertrannys

>>26183312
>the economy and health of businesses doesn’t have an affect people, whose life savings and employment mainly rest on the economy and the health of businesses

>>26178323
im at the point where i just think these people are all paid shills. it’s good practice to shoot down their retarded arguments, but there are like 10 threads a day on this now and im beginning to think they are just doing it to waste our time.

>>26183439
This only affects you if
1. you're an absolute poorfag making around minimum wage
2. a shitty business owner who will have to factor in more expenses

Say I have a team of workers who make about 25 an hour, another department that makes about 15 an hour and another that works for minimum wage plus tips. If minimum wage goest to 15 an hour, I sure as shit bet the top team will want the difference.

>>26183549
you sound like a poor fag that has never had their own business.

certain that it will fuck with everybody, everywhere.