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25650336 No.25650336 [Reply] [Original]

>MUH WASTED ELECTRICITY!!! MUH ASIC LANDFILLS!!!

If you want the GDP of the planet to actually run on a blockchain, security is priority number 1. Proof of Stake has proven to be vulnerable to any number of attacks, mostly due to its complexity and therefore vastly larger attack-vector surface area. Proof of Work is made MORE SECURE the more “wasteful” it becomes, because the electrify and ASICS one must “Stake” in order to get miner rewards is a consumed, illiquid asset that must be repurchased again and again and can’t be resold, vs the Stake which is literally Money. If you want blockchain at world scale get used to gargantuan “waste”.

>MUH MINER CENTRALIZATION!!!

PoS is far more prone to centralization than PoW, for the same reason it is far less secure, the staker takes no risk when the asset he must stake to mine is the asset he desires to get from mining in the first place. That’s not even counting delegation. On first look you might think that because the barrier to entry is so low for mining (ie a decent computer running 24/7 with reliable connection), that PoS validation would be more decentralized than PoW, but delegation cocks this completely up. People only delegate to the validator(s) that give them the greatest rewards, and when you look at PoS chains that are running today, the distribution of validation is WAY more concentrated than is PoW mining, because the economy of scale curve flattens out on PoW into diminishing returns, whereas PoS doesn’t.

>> No.25650366
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25650366

>BUT CHARLES IS HARDCAPPING VALIDATORS STAKE AMOUNT!!!

This right here should be enough to convince you that the concept of PoS is broken. These consensus mechanisms are SUPPOSED to create a natural incentive environment where a single entity can't have too large a portion of the validation power. Hard-caps on PoS validation stake is as retarded as if Bitcoin put a hard-cap on the amount of ASICs a miner was allowed to own. You don't think that people are going to be able to set up multiple of these validators in such a way that the profits don't all go to them?

>BUT YOU COULD DO VALIDATOR VERIFICATION

Congratuations you now have a permissioned blockchain, may I interest you in some Libra? The other thing about PoS is that if a single entity WAS able to acquire 51% of the network, we almost certainly would never know about it. What would look like a perfectly decentralized network could have 75% ownership by one Chink if you traced the key-ownership, which of course you couldn't, even if you TRIED to make it permissioned. You think trusted-setup paranoia was bad? Wait till we are a few years into ADA and people start realizing that for years the market cap of ADA was EASILY in the range of what a nation state or Rothschild could have stealthily acquired 51% of it via proxies. Proof of Work if someone has a significant portion of the hashrate of the network, you're going know about it and you're going to know who that entity is, where they are, and how much hashrate they have because the stake they have is a large noisy wasteful pile of computers that go obsolete every 12 months, and you didn't even need to KYC them. Like how we know that 65% of Bitcoin's Hashrate is in China! Isn't that nice to know!

>> No.25650448

>>25650336
Delegated proof of stake =/= proof of stake

>> No.25650528

>>25650336
I read everything but i would have trusted you more if you didnt post this gay wojack image

>> No.25650536

>>25650336

>what is pool saturation point 'k' factor

Another brainlet attempt to FUD PoS when the info is all right there. This has been theoretically solved since literally 2017 and it's been solved in practice since mid-2020 on Cardano. Still fully decentralized, even more so, because delegators are incentivized to seek out smaller pools to maximise rewards. Suck cock Charles will rape your asshole.

/thread

>> No.25650556

>>25650336
The other 3 points were interesting tho good job. It seems ur right and i hate to admit it

>> No.25650557

Didn't read.

I just want free eth without having to do some cuck shit like drop 3k on graphics cards, massive electric bills, and overclocking my PC.

>> No.25650566
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25650566

>BUT YOU SAID PROOF OF STAKE WAS MORE CENTRALIZED

Yes, it is. Pareto distributions and the Matthew Principal are the universal constant, power begets more power, money begets more money, hashrate begets more hashrate. The point of Proof of Work in regards to decentralization is that it makes validation share acquistion for the purposes of dishonest activity MAXIMALLY costly, and validation share acquisition for the purposes of honest activity MAXIMALLY profitable.

>ok but MUH TRANSACTION FEES! MUH SCALABILTIY.

Layer 2. Lightning Network, Plasma, Optimistic Rollups, Stateless Validation, ZK-SNARKS. If you haven't heard of them by now look them up because they are the future. This is why LRC and OMG are mooning right now. Some deluded basedtards think that ADA is the solution to the "blockchain trilemma" (pick two: Security, Decentralization, Scalability) all without requiring a Layer 2.

Get this through your fat heads:

Layer 1 PoW DESTROYS Layer 1 PoS on Security and Decentralization
Layer 2s for PoW can be just as if not more scalable than any Layer 1 PoS chain.

Layer 1 PoW + any number of Layer 2s IS the solution. It's what Satoshi wanted, it's what Vitalik wants, and it's what we are going to get once this PoS crashes and burns.

That being said I still hold some ADA because it IS certainly going to moon.

>> No.25650634

There is only one PoS which actually works and is called HEX, which is a crypto CD.
All the others are stake simulators. Look at ETH huge fees after 2.0. Look at ADA ridiculous rewards and halted development.

>> No.25650798
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25650798

>>25650336
>>25650366
someone spent time on his computer to make this image and write this post.

>> No.25651352
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25651352

>>25650336
Oh great let me just sell all my eth and cardano.

>> No.25651532
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25651532

>>25650448
all PoS has and needs to have delegation. at least DPoS is honest about being a cabal.

>> No.25652129

>>25651532
Hmmm dunno about that one chief sounds a bit like cope

>> No.25652142

>>25650634
eth 2.0 isnt out yet...

>> No.25652421

>>25652142
Eth 2 is a joke why would anyone use ETH 2 if Layer 2 has every token and dapp already running flawlessly for nearly zero fees.

>> No.25652497

>>25652421
ik i dont like eth.
but the other dude said the high fees were because of eth2, when it isnt even live yet.

>> No.25652579

>>25652497
It went live november 30th.

>> No.25652619

>>25652579
retard, its just the staking locked up, eth 2.0 is nothing yet, the high fees are because eth 1.0 is shit. there are no dapps or tokens on eth 2.0 yet