/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>25209795

U mine ur own with ur cpu. Ez gains. This is what xmr was built to be. Gubment resistant

you are naive.

>>25209842
US government wants to crack XMR, it's a threat to their currency. Why am I naive? If they can't destroy the system from insider they'll break it through regulations. It's no rocket science.

You could mine your own, use thorchain when its up, mine xhv or use it, bisq ,local monero, swap from btc in cake wallet

>>25209795

No, it's as much a thread than BTC. Not more.


It's just the most BASED digital currency ever created and 5k is more than inevitable.

The regulation FUD is great, helped me accumulate a shit ton of it.

It's a far better coin than BTC, way more sustainable in the long run + scarce supply

Good luck losing money on XMR..

>>25209795
Is there anyway to convert my shit to XMR when it's time to cash out or am I fucked from KYC?

>>25210143
You can use a chink exchange with no kyc.

Explain rpc-pay to me if monero isn’t a pajeet shitcoin

>>25209795
Once atomic swaps come into fruition there’s basically nothing anyone can do to stop it
Fiat money comes in clean through BTC and becomes XMR
Then going back from XMR to BTC and cashing out
No one will ever know you had “illegal” XMR in the first place - its obvious to see why dark net markets love this coin
I’m waiting for the day Satoshi swaps his BTC to XMR only for it to disappear forever without a trace

>>25210698
basically you pay with cpu time for the service.
The service provider gets hashes and could mine a block, receiving the block reward.

>>25210698
rpc-pay is
a way to pay hashes to
node operators

>>25210848
Is this even worth it in countries with high electricity costs? I’d imagine that a few hashes won’t nullify the costs of running a public node. Or can/should one enter a pool somehow to increase their chances?

>>25209795
lol
just lol
Scarcity means value LOL. You realize demand will go down once there is no proper monero to fiat and vice versa ramp right? If regulators specifically target exchanges about privacy coins we're fucked . You can't ban it but you can block access to it. Unless we create some huge shadow blackmarket economy that runs on monero there's no way these coins keep their value.

I own monero just in case it doesn't turn out that way though. I really want to believe in monero but I'm losing faith bros.

>>25210787
this. If atomic decentralized swaps are possible on the monero chain, the ramp is secured.

>>25211059
There are alot of monero to btc and that all you need.
Plus if they ban exchange selling it you can get it from swaps and Dex.

>>25210974
right now, no light wallets are supporting the rpc payment. With broader adoption it could be a way to get people into hosting open nodes.

>>25211170
I see. Thank you anon.

>>25211159
first of all its not a lot and second if they regulate it's gone. All sorts of it.
Only dex can do that.

>>25211059
If there's demand (illegal stuff needing means to cash without any tracking) there is no reason for this completely anonymous currency to shit the bed.

>>25209795
>I've been thinking a lot about it these past weeks and it's more and more obvious that once regulations are in, XMR will be somewhat illegal
wrong.
>r at least very difficult to obtain and use as it stands today
even wronger
>So how should I do to keep moneros on a hard drive while being certain I won't be bugged by the government for it
the government can't enforce p2p bans and there is no legal precedent to banning a cryptocurrency.
>>25211059
demand will go up because privacy will be needed because all of crypto uses transparent ledgers.
Also we don't need a fiat to Monero ramp with atomic swaps.
Also monero won't be banned you retard.
>>25211573
you are talking out of your ass. Monero won't be banned.

>>25211059

*Scarcity means value LOL. You realize demand will go down once there is no proper monero to fiat and vice versa ramp right? If regulators specifically target exchanges about privacy coins we're fucked . You can't ban it but you can block access to it. Unless we create some huge shadow blackmarket economy that runs on monero there's no way these coins keep their value.*

A frustrated government banning XMR = tacit admission XMR works = a giant fucking Batsignal to e-scammers/embezzlers/extortionists/launderers/pushers/terrorists to start using XMR, Streisand Effect on steroids.

Atomic swaps = no exchanges required.

No matter how you cut it, Monero is moving on up.

>>25209795
xmr network got hacked

>>25209795
Relax, buy some and taste real freedom.

>>25209795
>no mining

come on

>>25211705
I tend to agree with this anon in principle, but I think eventually the government will unsuccessfully to implement a ban, same as with torrenting. That will instantly make XMR a household name and increase demand.

>>25209795
Monero can be tracked, use 0xMonero

>>25212042
nope. 0xmonero is still vaporware bullshit
just like the last hundred times you spammed it
shut up
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoMoonShots/comments/i27fhk/0xmonero_summary_of_findings/
>>/biz/thread/S24750658#p24755504

I bought more today with ETH.
I'm buying XMR in near every dip.
It can be used to clear circular tracing from exchanges, so you can safely sell BTC and ETH when the time comes.

>>25209891
It's just not profitable for the US to do that, if they completely outlaw the most secure digital currency they will just harm their own country and the rest of the world will gain from it.

>>25211782
ddos does not equal hack, retard

Assuming atomic swaps are functional, a governmental ban would unironically be the best possible endorsement for Monero.

You have any idea just how many hoops online drug dealers and embezzlers and extortionists have to jump through just to covertly move their millions around? Its a fucking no-brainer that they'll adopt XMR at some point, they'll be buying up BILLIONS worth in order to transact with peace of mind.

>>25211960
right, but bitorrent isn't illegal.
with monero, it is encrypted on all ends. It's impossible to know when somebody makes a transaction. You can't ban it and you would look foolish doing so.
The only illegal thing with cryptocurrency is money laundering and tax evasion. But this is will always be an issue with any type of asset class. If someone doesn't pay their taxes and the feds investigate them they will get in trouble. Monero has nothing to do with somebody not paying taxes. It's like how retards blame guns instead of the shooters -- Monero as a tool can be used for bad but it also has legitimate usecases that make it the most obvious long in crypto.

>>25209795
PirateChain is better

>>25212387
On paper maybe, but at its current state, no. You need to think about development, community, and the overall network effect when saying one privacy coin is better than the other. It is at least better than zcash/dash because it has default privacy. It loses points for not being asic resistant. Monero is just better than every other private coin right now and for the distant future as well.

>>25209795
Thanks for the reminder. Dipped back down to $162, so sold off some BAT and bought more.

What happens is that many newfags think bitcoin and ethereum will not go up more than their current prices. They think this is the top, or near the top, or then believe in the "lenghtening cycles" meme.
So they think 0.1btc will never be so much, but it will.
Do not underestimate the modern State. When the time comes, they will want your coins, or the profits from them. And it will not be the usual 15-20% tax, they will want 85-95% tax, so that you stay poor. The vaccines are just a training, a test to check how many cucks there are in the world, and how many of them might be holding crypto. There are lots of cucks in bitcointalk.org who believes the narrative and trust the State.
Clear the circular tracing as soon as possible, buying monero at the dips and selling when it pass the other coins. Clear the fucking trace, because there will be a time 0.1BTC will be 10k dollars, or 100k, or even 1 million.

>>25212376
Bittorrent isn't illegal, but torrenting copyrighted material is- it's just unenforceable and nobody gives a shit. I don't think a Monero ban will be effective, but I'll be shocked if they don't try- especially in China and Russia.

Best XMR exchange? Possibly without ID verification and low fees. Just deposit LTC -> Buy XMR -> withdraw. I used Shapeshift but now it requires an account and it sucks. No scams pls

>>25213394
ive used changenow a couple of times to get XMR with no problems

>>25213427
I'll check it out, thanks

PMs are more private than xmr.

>>25212219
0xMonero will not pay what you are asking for to stop fudding.

>>25213600
its not fud. 0xMonero is a fucking scam.

>>25213600
I like this guy a little more every day. His product is a fucking scam, but he's clever about how he promotes it.

>>25213394
Kucoin is pretty lit

>>25213583
>PMs are more private than xmr.
Yes, but harder to move around.

>>25209819
Yee-Haw 50 bucks a month minus eletricity costs

>>25209795
Wat's a Monero suicide stack fren?

>>25210053
How profitable is mining if I have a RTX 2070?

>>25214788
It’s not num nuts go use google and lurk more before you ask these dumb question fuck where do these newfags even come from

>>25209795
Can someone tell me how bisq works? I installed it, transfered some bitcoin to its wallet. I expected I could then sell this btc for monero, but all the offers are still greyed out and it says I need a market account. So I added a zelle account from my bank, but it says none accept that currency, they all say altcoins. So I added my zec wallet, but it still won't work, and I don't have any of these other shitcoins.

I just want to trade some btc to monero anons, but have been messing with this for hours. Why does it need other accounts linked up when the btc is in its wallet?

>>25214768
[An unknown amount]

>>25214996
You need to put your Monero address in, aka make an altcoin account, otherwise how else will the buyer of your btc be able to send it to you?

>>25215042
Damnit, I hate being retarded so much. Thank you

>>25209819
What kind of XMR per month does a decent rig bring in now? If I can break even on electricity I don't see why not

>>25212376
>It's impossible to know when somebody makes a transaction.
this is not correct
you know when someone makes a transaction, you just don't know from who to who and how much. you can still fuck up with monero, i.e. you put your personal info into tx extra field, which is plaintext data on the transaction. this is where all the attacks happen, that and via zero days in the absolute dogshit pile of crap that is their code base.

fun fact about monero: it doesn't use proper ed25519, it uses ecdsa over curve25519 which means if your RNG is backdoored an attacker can derive your secret keys if you sign enough transactions.
proper ed25519 uses a static nounce when creating signatures derived from the left hand 32 bytes of the sha512 of the seeed. monero doesn't do this, it instead does ecdsa over curve25519 which pretty much removes most of the benifts of using that scheme, it's almost worst than NIST p256 because the signagures are not deterministic. if your rng introduces ANY bias into the nounce used in the signature generation, you can derive the secret key using frequency attacks.
the monero authors are retarded they thought they could roll their own crypto but the choices they made bit them in their dick really hard. this is why monero has no value, it works only in theory but the actual implementation doesn't match it.

>>25215589
Bruteforce my wallet glownigger

>>25215367
>that and via zero days in the absolute dogshit pile of crap that is their code base.
neck yourself larp
>you can still fuck up with monero
yeah no shit metadata can be used against you. People who need to practice opsec will be wise to timing analysis or publishing plaintext.
>>25215589
> if your RNG is backdoored an attacker can derive your secret keys if you sign enough transactions.
If your rng is backdoored then you have a lot more problems than whatever the fuck you are word vomitting.
>if your rng introduces ANY bias into the nounce used in the signature generation, you can derive the secret key using frequency attacks.
no you can't.

>>25211059
>Unless we create some huge shadow blackmarket economy that runs on monero there's no way these coins keep their value.
>implying that isn't an inevitability
The black market already runs on monero, a government ban would quite literally be the catalyst for monero to go parabolic

>>25215589
do you have any single fact to back that up?

>>25215906
https://blog.trailofbits.com/2020/06/11/ecdsa-handle-with-care/
have fun with your broken pile of shit son

>>25209795
>d it's more and more obvious that once regulations are in, XMR will be somewhat illegal,
no it wont you can use xmr legally. either way if you want to "ban" xmr then you need to ban all of crypto which is impossible and against noveltiy theory. things advance and get more complex. removing crypto would be a step back so it wont happen.

>>25216205
read up on it here >>25216209
monero is great in theory, in practice it's garbage.

>>25216318
I meant the fact that monero does not use proper ed25519

>>25216209
>Fuds Moneros curve
>posts fud link to a curve that Monero doesn't use
come on larp you can do better than that.

>>25216381
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/crypto/crypto.cpp#L290

parts of interest:

random_scalar(k);
ge_scalarmult_base(&tmp3, &k);
ge_p3_tobytes(&buf.comm, &tmp3);

this is effectively ecdsa over curve25519, not eddsa.

>>25216457
epic meme my bro

>>25216476
cope. xmr is the best privacy asset in the crypto market right now. its the standard. keep coping

>>25216587
>cops
>good at cryptography
the real reason they don't have the number is because they can't decrypt the wallet file as thy dont have the password.
i am sorry but your coin has no actual value.

>>25209795
when xmr gets delisted it doesnt go up in value. it crashes on all markets as people try to exit with less than 0.

mega cope. just to be sure I posted your fud for the monero devs and we'll see how much of a non issue it is.

>>25216476
is this larp seriously trying to convince noobies that you can derive a private key from random transactions? fucking lol.
>>25216626
wrong. The reason they don't know the exact number is because they can't use chain analysis.
they know how much Bitcoin the person has because they know the wallet address being used. they don't have the password for the Bitcoin wallet as well, but they can declare how much the address has.
Too bad they haven't used your epic zero day yet (that doesn't take into account ring signatures or stealth addresses or confidential transactions).

>>25216777
>Too bad they haven't used your epic zero day yet
im 100pct sure that the combined genusses in the monero team already went through all of the issues and >>25215589
this is just cope from some uni student who thinks he knows shit about crypto and thinks xmr is unsafe lmao. yeah. thats why its the darknet standard right?

>>25216861
>im 100pct sure that the combined genusses in the monero team already went through all of the issues
the monero developers that made the parts of moerno that work are long gone, it's run by idiots now and has been for quite some time.

>>25216861
he literally posted a fud article about curve that Monero doesn't even use. he's either talking out of his ass or trolling, probably the latter.

>>25216763
they know about this, they just don't think it's an issue because they are pretenders who have no clue what they are doing.

>>25217025
the problem isn't curve25519 it's the use of ecdsa instead of eddsa. curve25519 is fine.

>>25217080
ok this is the part where you say 0xmonero or some other trash is better, and then you leave

>>25216777
there is no need for this being a psyop disinfo campaign against monero, there is a simpler explanation for all of this: monero devs are stupid.
>>25217186
nope. there are no good implementations of the fundamentals proposed by the cryptonote whitepaper.

>>25216685
it wont hit zero, dexes arent going anywhere.

>>25217059
they also probably know that as long as you don't expose your secret key or any nonces, there is no threat of deanonymization. I'm not sure who you think works on monero? It's literally open source i.e. anyone can contribute. If you can easily implement a more secure signature then please by all means open a PR, let us see what you are all about. If you can't do that then just fuck off lol.

>>25217240
i have already contributed and they do not want to change any of this code. something about how the diff is too big to review.

>>25217080
>the problem isn't curve25519 it's the use of ecdsa instead of eddsa. curve25519 is fine.
But monero literally uses curve25519, which is based on eddsa.
>>25217240
yeah I agree. glowfaggot larp can submit this on github if he is actually not talking out of his ass. But the problem is he is, and all he is doing is trying to fud anons with big words.

>>25217279
link to your PR? I would be curious to know their reasoning other than the diff is too large.

>>25217015
ok you are definitely the idiot here

>>25217291
> monero literally uses curve25519, which is based on eddsa.

no it does not, it does ecdsa over curve25519, read the previous posts you mong.

>>25217305
>dox yourself
no thanks.

>>25217321
>he used his irl github even though he cares about anonymity.
ok, you can stop the larp now.

>>25217356
kek

>>25209795
>can we have a serious discussion about XMR?
K, it will sink with regulations. Everyone and their mother will delist it
>muh blackmarket
Good luck mantaining the mcap "only" with that, or mooning.. how?

>>25217418
this guy gets it.

>>25213583
remember when private gold was forbidden in the US? Gold is hard to hide, Monero is much easier to hide. All you need is to remember 25 words and no one can see your wealth.

I like this fud. I might make a pasta to discourage adoption while I accumulate.

>>25217578
you can use >>25215589 because it's true.
you can cite
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/crypto/crypto.cpp#L290
and
https://blog.trailofbits.com/2020/06/11/ecdsa-handle-with-care/
on the end of the copypasta.

>>25209795
Or you could use a 2nd layer privacy solution like Suterusu which will make orders of magnitude more gains and render delistable privacy coins an unneeded risk.

how do we pay for droogs on the darknet once the government has cracked XMR?

normie here, what are the drawbacks to monero. i heard something about if it grows too big the network cant handle it or somesuch.

>>25209795
>XMR
Same garbage as BCH. It's actually useful unlike the stuff we buy, but it's not gonna make you money.
Sell and buy a moon mission.

>>25217737
drawbacks:
> shitty wallets that dont work well
> massively high tx confirmation lag
> fucking huge size of transactions
> maintained by idiot developers that refuse to fix their code
> massive cult following who have no idea how anything works but shill it anyways

>>25215000
hello, based department?

>>25217356
yeah plus you could easily search through github or irc chat logs if we wanted to, but we know that this is a larp so it doesn't matter.
>>25217321
line 125 shows the 25519 curve.
what you linked to looks to doesn't reference ecdsa. what does that even mean that ecdsa is on top of 25519? that doesn't make any sense.

>>25217895
it's okay, we know you have no idea what you are doing and are desperately trying to defend your cult.
the problem has 2 parts:

part 1:
the monero signature scheme uses a random value when generating signatures [1] instead of a deterministic value based off the hash of the seed like in ed25519. this means 2 things:
the signatures are not deterministic
if the RNG is bias you can use some tricks [2] to derive the secret key used to generate the signature.

part 2:
there is a culture in monero development to just add more code instead of removing all the shitty cruft, as a result the technical debt piles up. at this point in time, it is not possible to fix monero. you MUST start over if you want it to be maintainable. the developers will not do this.

[1]
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/crypto/crypto.cpp#L290
[2]
https://blog.trailofbits.com/2020/06/11/ecdsa-handle-with-care/

>>25217015
hi fireiceuk how mad are you that your free network audit is not working how you want it

>>25218055
you didn't even answer my question. All you did was erroneously claim that monero doesn't use ed25519 (which it provably does in the link you showed) and then repeated your claim that the RNG might be biased, which has no standing.
>there is a culture in monero development to just add more code instead of removing all the shitty cruft, as a result the technical debt piles up. at this point in time, it is not possible to fix monero. you MUST start over if you want it to be maintainable. the developers will not do this.
it's a grass roots project anon. if you want to contribute you can but we all know you can't actually code.

>>25218132
the point of ed25519 is that it's deterministic eddsa over curve 25519
ecdsa by definition uses a random value when generating sigs. because monero does use curve25519 but does not do the deterministic signatures it is effectively ecdsa over curve25519.
the white paper says it uses ed25519 but the code itself does not do ed25519.

>>25218131
>monero scams contributors
this is great for optics

>>25209795
>monero will be illegal

over my dead body

>>25218407
ryo will always be a shitcoin, honey.
but at least it will be your little shitcoin.

>>25218867
i agree, ryo is a most certainly a shitcoin.
anything that is derived from monero is bound to be one.

>>25218275
so basically your argument boils down to a random number generator being a bad thing. yeah I think that's pretty fucking retarded anon. You can even create an address with your own entropy here if that really is going to be a deal breaker for you: https://moneroaddress.org/, but random number generators are random unless you download malware...

Any info on mining? How much for a quality mining rig that you can use from home? Generally speaking, how much would it cost to run it? How quickly will it mine monero?

>>25216861
>his is just cope from some uni student who thinks he knows shit about crypto and thinks xmr is unsafe lmao
lmao

>>25219306
SHUT UP ABOUT MINING
the only people who can mine cryptocurrencies and turn good profits these days are companies with warehouses full of rigs. You are less capable of profiting than a gold panner is able to compete with an army of trucks capable of sifting gold from hundreds of tonnes of rock.
Just buy some and wait for it to go up

>>25211059
>target exchanges
wouldn't decentralized exchanges open up though?

>>25218407
>monero scams contributors
You refused to work under the monero licence. No need to complain then.