/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>25068366
Noooooo deleetttttt

I never understand who writes shit like this or why they would waste their own time writing it.
If you have arrived at your conclusions in earnest, a true person would simply put it out of their mind and fuck off.

no coiner. cope.

>>25068366
You had 10 years

everyone who "invests" in crypto thinks it's going to make them rich. another obvious sign of a bubble.

another feature of bubbles is that they go longer and higher than anyone thinks possible, but they all end the same way.

>>25068723
Are stock a bubble?

>>25069545
yes

>>25068366
you must be 20 years old. sheltered pussy
buy freedom reserve and fuck off

>>25068366
NCC

>>25068366
haha typical nocoiner cope

op please remember this day. please remember how even though the price was high, you could have bought in higher than ever and still made a killing, but you were stubborn and missed out

remember this day 5 years from now, btc $23760 usd at the moment, remember this price op

>>25069597
i'm 20 because i haven't fallen for the same jewish scam as you? get a grip you delusional fuck

>>25069765
>op please remember this day. please remember how even though the price was high, you could have bought in higher than ever and still made a killing, but you were stubborn and missed out
this is true of literally every bubble. there's nothing special about the crypto bubble.

staking invalidates all of that

People with literal 300 IQ have solved every issue you can possibly surmise, cope brainlet

>>25069922
people with 300 IQ have solved every problem. great pitch to investors.

but have they solved the problem that crypto is worthless?

>14 replies
>6 posts by this ID
OP confirmed fag. If you’re so smart why are you so poor?

>>25070001
thank you for thinking that my posts are intelligent. no one suggested as such so i guess that's the feeling you got. i'm sorry you got intimidated.

>>25069993

By your definition, everything is worthless besides food, water, and shelter.

And yet we still have an enormous economy filled with services and mental abstractions which people pay for.

>>25068366
Plebit fag that learnt the word bubble from a schiff post

>>25070069
>By your definition, everything is worthless besides food, water, and shelter.
that's an interesting and wrong conclusion. what do you think my definition is? i don't recall ever giving a definition. this seems like a way to cope for the fact that crypto is worthless.

>>25070137
not an argument.

>>25069810
> value goes up and will one day reach ath and then crash
> its a bubble

according to your definition what isnt a bubble sir? and what price ISNT decided by how much another is willing to pay for it? even eur/usd

is your plan to hold something with ever increasing value until the heat death of the universe? buy low sell high bitch. the fact its high right now and its keeping nonbelievers like you out is a good thing, you will fomo in at 50K and we need the fuel for the most epic bull run in history

>>25070182
this retard has no plan. This retard also calls everything a bubble then what is this?

>>25068366
libertarians are jews. fuck them. the people who are legitimately using crypto are banned from social media, from using payment processors in the real word, from doing business because they said something politically incorrect. Right wing dissidents are growing in numbers. The white ethnostate will be built online first and it wlll be done using crypto. Its the only way to escape the jew.

>>25070182
>and what price ISNT decided by how much another is willing to pay for it? even eur/usd
i never said price should be determined by anything other than this so i don't know why you asked this. sounds like you're trying to set up for a strawman.

a bubble is obviously when the price of an asset has been disconnected from its actual value. ie, the price is propped up by delusional simpletons who think they will be able to get rich off of it by selling it later at a higher price.

>>25070158
It's a reasonable extrapolation from the statements you've made so far. If you're ready to claim that fiat currency, other forms of exchange, and investments (in the broadest sense of the word) can also be characterized as bubbles, then it's possible your argument has legs and we can have a fun conversation. But I suspect you're not going to do that. Apply yourself.

check out XBY

>>25070158

Clearly its not worthless since people are willing to pay for it. Every person has different wants and needs and they value things differently. The point of the market is to determine what things are worth. The market says crypto has value, you say it doesn't. The market wins.

>>25070277
how was your first semester?
also reply to this guy >>25070258 I want to see a redditor and stormfag fight

>>25070247
>then what is this?
irrelevant until you look at velocity/money multiplier. i love suckers like you because you go long inflation when deflation is the real concern.

>>25070258
what's more likely is that central banks come out with their own government-mandated crypto so that they can control the money supply and velocity directly, so crypto will actually end up enslaving you.

>>25070311
>It's a reasonable extrapolation from the statements you've made so far
how can it be reasonable when it's entirely incorrect?
>If you're ready to claim that fiat currency, other forms of exchange, and investments (in the broadest sense of the word) can also be characterized as bubbles
ofc it is. however the difference between these bubbles and crypto is that the underlying asset has an actual function in the real world.

>>25070337
>Clearly its not worthless since people are willing to pay for i
nominally, that's correct. but in terms of actual uses, there are none. it's quite plain to see that it's simply a mania driven by speculators who think they're going to get rich and don't care at all for the actual thing they own. this has happened countless times in the past which is why young people are so susceptible to this bubble in particular. especially because it has the sexy and nebulous allure of "technology" backing it (even though the largest market cap crypto is now outdated, technologically speaking, but we're all willing to look past that cause we're all gonna get rich, right?).

>>25070477
child in all likelihood i've been browsing 4chan since you were in diapers.

>>25068366
This is a valid criticism.
Back in 2010, when you had to know how to use a terminal, set up private keys by hand for your wallet, and be hooked into a community where you could learn about this strange new cryptocurrency thing. Back when a lot of trading was happening on a Magic the Gathering website.
We don't live in 2020 anymore. Crypto exchanges are IPOing on the American stock market with the SEC'S blessing. Boomer financial news networks have BTCUSD as part of their standard stock tickers. Established payment processors and banks are loudly proclaiming how easy it is to buy crypto.

>>25070497

You're really just being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. It's obvious that crypto has applications. It's obvious that people are using it as a hedge against the current financial system. Whether that's realistic or not is a reasonable discussion, but saying it's completely worthless and comparable to tulips or whatever, is just dishonest and a waste of everyone's time.

>>25070277
no price about actual value? what are you a communist? and the actual value is determined by how many people are paying for it, if people are buying it at $1, its worth $1.

i wish i had the energy to explain everything to you but even if i had it its demotivating to know you wont fully get it, but the keynotes that you should keep note of and perhaps research to see the big picture is HALVINGS and COST OF PRODUCTION, bitcoin costs a lot to produce, and after the halvings, they get a lot more expensive to produce

>sounds like you're trying to set up for a strawman
calling out my logical statement doesnt make it a strawman

>>25070558
>Crypto exchanges are IPOing on the American stock market with the SEC'S blessing. Boomer financial news networks have BTCUSD as part of their standard stock tickers. Established payment processors and banks are loudly proclaiming how easy it is to buy crypto.
None of this suggests that there's actually any use (value) in crypto.

>>25070575
>It's obvious that crypto has applications
what applications? blockchain has applications. conflating crypto with blockchain is a swindle that i commend the crypto hucksters for pulling off. i hope you didn't fall for it.

It is completely worthless (as in has no actual utility).

>>25070724
>and the actual value is determined by how many people are paying for it
value is not price. what people are paying for something speaks nothing of its value.

>bitcoin costs a lot to produce, and after the halvings, they get a lot more expensive to produce
if i have constipation and i struggle really hard to produce a turd, does it have value? you should reevaluate you think creates value as you seem to be confused and looking to rationalize an obvious bubble which is a common problem.

>>25070497
you're aware there are right wing business which are surviving using only BTC & Monero. This is a real thing and it will only increase until its no longer fringe groups who have to do this. There will most likely be a push for mandatory vaccinations, and whether you think covid is real or not, I'm sure you can see how unfolding events will push more people to look for alternate means of trade. There are also already crypto Debit cards. Its only a matter of time before this is a big thing and of course central bankers are trying to figure out how to get ahead of this and control crypto, but that doesn't negate the fact that crypto has real legitimate use.

>>25070807
>value is not price. what people are paying for something speaks nothing of its value.

Ok, i'll bite. What determines value?

>>25068366
At this point, it's more about saving the value of your money vs. the decline of the dollar. You can argue about whether or not that decline is happening I guess. I think most people would agree it is, and it'll continue to decline into the future. So buying BTC is a bet that it'll hold value better than the dollar and potentially even go up in value as more people come to the same conclusion.

>>25070865
>What determines value?
utility, obviously.

>>25070847
the use being what, explicitly?

>>25070865
dont you understand? op determines value, fool. if he consider it valueless, it is, dont you see? he doesnt understand that value is what OTHERS decide but him

>>25070807
if your turds were wanted by people, yes, they would have immense value, like tom brady's turds

i hope you have a decent career because in finance and investments youre not gonna make it brah

>>25070976

>utility, obviously.

So you believe there's no value in a global network for securely transferring value without the need for trust and intermediaries?

>>25071042
oooooohhhhhhhhh

>>25070936
You're talking about replacing one form of money with another. It makes sense, in theory, but only if you expect BTC to be the preferred form of money.

There have been many monies in history. The common theme among all of them is that the old one is discarded when a superior one is found. Is bitcoin a superior form of money? If you knew anything about what makes a money, then you could only conclude that it is not.

>>25068366
This can be said about all money retard.
Monopoly money, shiny rocks, colorful seashells, or internet Chucky Cheese tokens. It's all the same shit, the only thing that gives them value is our trust in their value. Your argument is stupid and you probably can't even bench 2pl8.

>>25070999
>if your turds were wanted by people, yes, they would have immense value, like tom brady's turds
no, they would just have immense price. in the long run, people would eventually determine that turds are worthless and the price would crash down to zero where it belongs.

>>25071042
>So you believe there's no value in a global network for securely transferring value without the need for trust and intermediaries?
as said in the OP,
>No one outside of the spergy libertarian bubble wants the actual crypto
Try telling Cletus about the value of "a global network for securely transferring value without the need for trust and intermediaries".

>>25071081

>Is bitcoin a superior form of money? If you knew anything about what makes a money, then you could only conclude that it is not.

>>25068366
I love seeing the seethe from nocoiners from being eternally priced out

>>25068366
you’re absolutely right and that’s a man

>>25071131
See >>25071081
What you don't understand is that money itself has utilitarian value. Because without money, you suffer the problem of coincidence of wants, which causes inefficiency. So the question is, what is the preferred and superior form of money? If you think the answer is bitcoin you are a retard. It might be another crypto, but there's no way you could argue that it could be bitcoin, yet it costs the most? That can only mean one thing (bubble).

>>25071145

>Try telling Cletus about the value of "a global network for securely transferring value without the need for trust and intermediaries".

So you're saying, because dumb people don't recognize the value of something, it has no value?

>>25071168
Do you really think bitcoin is the best crypto at being money? If you answer yes you are ignorant or disingenuous.

>>25069810
ok op enjoy getting btfo from inflation

zoom out on all of BTC's bubbles and one clearly sees a chad fad

>>25071220
No that's just what you would like me to be saying. I'm saying that outside of your extremely small minority spergy cult no one cares about the alleged function of crypto.

>>25071199
>an unbreakable public ledger isn't worth the the public's trust as a form of currency
You are braindead.

>>25071223

It doesn't matter if it's "the best", all that matters is that it's good enough, and that people are willing to use it.

But yes, by some measures, it is the best.

>>25071223
Do you think people buy bitcoin because they think they can use it to buy coffee?
The average btc tx is 10k to 100k in value.
>>25071255
that was true 5 years ago. now microstrategy, guggenheim, and grayscale are all buying teh fuck out of bitcoin because it's an inflation hedge.

>>25071255
Ok cool. Enjoy FOMOing in with cletus and everyone else outside of our "small minority spergy cult".

>>25070497
How is inflation not the real concern but rather defaltion is? Currency was tied to a deflationary asset until recently - and that also happens to be when everything became fucked up.

>>25068366
I don’t really understand your point OP, and I’m trying. Do you think the only point of crypto is to replace fiat? Are you aware of Chainlink, smart contracts, defi, etc...
This is bigger than “coin = new money”
If the world’s best/favorite car only works with a fancy new type of fuel, that type of fuel will probably be a good investment.

>>25071255
>I'm saying that outside of your extremely small minority spergy cult no one cares about the alleged function of crypto.

Except there are more billionaires and hedge funds coming out and publicly acknowledging it's use case every single day ?

>>25071264
umm, i never said that? sure you can trust there won't be many more bitcoins. it takes more than that to be money. rationalize harder.

>>25071276
>It doesn't matter if it's "the best"
it does matter. why wouldn't it matter? the free market tends towards the optimal. you can only say it doesn't matter if you are deluded by the allure of chasing a bubble which is a common problem and causes rationalizations.

history has shown that the inferior money is always weeded out.

>>25071364
>it takes more than that to be money
So why can I use to buy things?

>>25071364

>history has shown that the inferior money is always weeded out.

But BTC isn't inferior. It has the most security and the longest track record.

If you're going to dump a billion dollars into a crypto, your top priority is that it's secure. Not that it takes 1 minute instead of 5 minutes, or that a transfer costs 1 dollar instead of 5 dollars.

>>25068366
Its not behaving like a bubble though. Otherwise it would have crashed to nothing after the last boom but now its at new ATH

You're unironically right and these biztards are seething. Noone actually gives a shit about the tech as much as they say they do. This is evident with everyone bragging about their stack in USD or talking about different cash out methods. Crypto is simply a hedge that's it

>>25071317
>Do you think people buy bitcoin because they think they can use it to buy coffee?
no they buy it because they think they can sell it to a greater fool later at a higher price.

>that was true 5 years ago. now microstrategy, guggenheim, and grayscale are all buying teh fuck out of bitcoin because it's an inflation hedge.
part of being the greater fool is believing the public narrative. classic pump n dump. oh, you think that wall street is always honest to retail? LOL

>>25071319
>Ok cool. Enjoy FOMOing in with cletus and everyone else outside of our "small minority spergy cult".
enjoy holding bitcoin to zero after it goes up to some unspecified number

>How is inflation not the real concern but rather defaltion is?
money supply is only half the story. the other half is velocity. the dumb money is long inflation because they didn't take economics 102.

>>25071333
it's not a hard point to understand. crypto has no utility, therefore it's worthless.

>>25071339
read what i wrote earlier in this post

Even if you were right (you're not), I still have more fiat than if I hadn't got into crypto

>>25071376
you can use turds to buy things. that doesn't make

>>25071414
>But BTC isn't inferior
okay retard. i guess someone doesn't understand technology.

>>25071553
how is btc inferior? Name one project that's superior (I guess you could say ETH but btc and eth do very different things).
>>25071487
the public narrative for years has been "BTC is a scam used by criminals with zero intrinsic value." Also institutions can be sued by the SEC for pumping and dumping, retard.

>>25068366
doesn't matter, Tether and the exchanges won't let crypto fail

>>25071615
>how is btc inferior?
well for one it's projected to use as much energy as the entire country of japan. you think governments will allow that?

>Also institutions can be sued by the SEC for pumping and dumping, retard.
>He thinks the rules apply to the big boys
LOL. naive fool. enjoy your bitcoin.

>>25071487
>crypto has no utility, therefore it's worthless.
There are literally utility tokens.

>>25071665
>he doesn't know that miners use excess electricity for mining
It's pretty much impossible to get your investment back from a miner if you don't have free electricity. try harder faggot and enjoy being priced out forever.

>>25071710
>he thinks that the BTC blockchain can be maintained indefinitely on 'excess electricity'
LOL

>>25071738
that's the state of the network now and it's working.

>>25071761
short-sighted retard. your myopia is why you can't see BTC inevitably going to 0.

>>25068723
ahem.
gold

>>25071791
you know renewable energy costs pretty much zero? you know the current trends in energy production?

Renewable energy costs zero.
Except for the solar panels that you need to make. Oh, btw, solars panel degrade about 3% per year (up to 5). So every 30 years you have to buy new ones. Same for wind turbines.

Energy is never free. Even the excess hydro power is bullshit. There is never excess power in hydro, you can stop the dam. You can even reverse the flow to bring water uphill if you have excess power (night). Power is always lost.

>>25068546
Lmao what is a “true person”, Pajeet? Someone who doesn’t offend your faggot sensibilities? Why bother coming on a forum if you’re going to be a quiet little bitch?

Two years ago was the first time we exceed 25% renewables in electricity production. So more than 70% is still not renewable.
BTC does not work well with renewables as it has a constant load. Best are classical power stations for baseline load (coal oil fuel or nuclear)

>>25068366
>4chan teen discovers speculative markets

Always enlightening to browse this cesspool

>>25072120
>>25072165
https://cointelegraph.com/news/study-over-74-of-bitcoin-mining-is-powered-by-renewable-energy

>>25069810
Ah, yes, the 12 years bubble...

retired from, and still making money, from crypto. will continue to do so, no one cares if you take pride in being a no coiner.

>>25068366
instead of trying to convince people here, why don't you short? if you do a great job, you may even be feature in a big short like movie except about bitcoin

>>25070049
>tfw too intelligent to make money

>>25071791
buy signal

>>25072169
i come on here to troll some retards who unironically believe that bitcoin is a legitimate asset class and somehow you think this is news to me? i guess faggots will believe anything in a desperate attempt to feel superior.

>>25072521
>shorting a bubble
retard

>>25071364
>history has shown that the inferior money is always weeded out

Yes hence the USD and other fiat currencies getting btfo and the prices of all assets getting inflated. Weak shit is being weeded out.

>>25072824
>what are puts
retard

>>25072824
>be poorfag
>see people make it from internet coins
>start seething and coping
>hurr durr how can they get rich from internet monopoly money it's literally worthless reeeeeeeeee
>thinks he's trolling but he just seethes because he's eternally priced out
the absolute state of OP

>>25072878
Within the insular realm of each individual nation, their respective fiat will be the superior form of money as it is required to pay taxes. Fiat only gets phased out when the governing regime collapses. Which money wins out in such an environment is anyone's guess, but only retards think it will be bitcoin.

>>25072938

>but only retards think it will be bitcoin.

imagine being even stupider because you made no money on it and they did

>>25072938
You can't use gold to pay taxes.
Does gold still have value?

>>25072911
>be retarded
>be unable to form any coherent rebuttal to the truth
>start seething and invent bizarre realities in my own mind to cope with the fact that i'm a retard
the absolute state of (You)

>>25072995
You fail at basic logic my guy. If A then B does not mean if B then A. As expected from a bitcoin bull.

>>25073036
Your argument implies that gold has no value because you can't use it to pay taxes.
>inb4 hurr durr you can hold gold
if gold was used for industrial purposes only it would cost 50 dollars an ounce. but it costs more because humans collectively decide that it has value as it looks good. similarly humans have decided that bitcoin has value too even though it's intangible.

>>25073008
it was you who actually couldn't come up with an argument and I was responding in the same response format as you. You're complaining that people are only buying cryptocurrency in order to sell at a higher value hence making it a bubble. This is extraordinarily wrong. I can't vouch for the other coins but BTC holders expect to trade BTC for hard physical assets in the future. There have already been houses purchased with BTC and there's no reason to expect this to slow down. So either have some conviction about your opinion and short or stop making seethe threads

>>25073078
>Your argument implies that gold has no value because you can't use it to pay taxes.
I'm aware that's what you think. I'm telling you that my argument does not imply that. You are bad at logic.

Let me spell it out for you because you're retarded.
If something can be used to be taxes, then it has value (which is what I said). Does that mean if something can't be used to pay taxes, then it doesn't have value?

Put another way, if an animal is a dog, then it has four legs. Does that mean that if it has four legs, then it's a dog?

Come on, anon, this is basic stuff. Do better.

>>25073086
>it was you who actually couldn't come up with an argument
An argument to what? You never made an argument in the first place. Finding isolated cases of people trading things of value for turds doesn't mean turds are now legitimate currency units.

>>25073140
You're the retard who thinks that there can only be one successful store of value. Your entire argument is that the US Dollar is the best money therefore everything else cannot have value.

>>25073178
if you believe this is such a turd, why not short? I offered that you can use puts if you're worried about using leverage. if you're not willing to do this, then you don't have conviction in your belief

>>25073221
>Your entire argument is that the US Dollar is the best money therefore everything else cannot have value.
that's just what you think my argument is because you have bad reading comprehension due to your low intelligence.

>>25073227
i see we are abandoning the notion that you ever made an argument in the first place.
>I offered that you can use puts if you're worried about using leverage
when did I ever say that i was worried about leverage? I'm worried about taking a low IQ trade. shorting bubbles is even more retarded than chasing them.

>you don't have conviction in your belief
my belief is that bitcoin will rise to some unspecified number before going to zero. my lack of desire to short is completely consistent with my belief.

>>25073300
Ok, so what's stopping humans in your opinion from all agreeing that bitcoin has value, just like gold then?

>>25073300
thank you for confirming that you're not going to act on your belief but will post seethe threads on this board
/thread

>>25073383
nothing. i just know that subsequent generations of humans will be able to see that the emperor is, in fact, not wearing any clothes and will properly valuate that which has no utility appropriately at zero, like a turd.

>>25073385
if that's the victory you need to not feel utterly defeated then you can have it bro.

>>25073428
you're retarded if you think you are smarter than the market
you still have not convinced anyone it has no utility. is not having your money inflated away yearly useful? is being able to send millions anywhere around the world for a dollar useful?

Op you are correct. Crypto is a bubble and a glorified ponzi, however it will go up just because of delusion, the same way link did. everyone will want to eventually jump on the train and because anyone in the world can buy it will go up. Fundementally though nothing is there its all speculation

>>25068366
No one outside of the jewish authoritarian elites wants the actual money. They just want to exchange it later for a better goods. That's the definition of a bubble.

Money has literally no value. Are you telling me that most people would trade everything they own for all the money in the world if they knew it meant that they would never be able to exchange that money for goods and services? Most people would say no to that.

Money's only use is to exchange to a greater fool. (You)

>>25073466
none of those things are unique to bitcoin, bitcoin just does it worse. if i recall you are also the retard who thinks energy will be free or something. i'd rather go hang out with my wife. have a good evening.

>>25073499
money eliminates the inefficiency of coincidence of wants. nice try retard

>>25073562
you can't name something that does it better.
you also misrepresented my argument, you said btc uses too much energy and i told you that most miners use excess energy which is literally free. if you have solar panels and wind energy, you'll have more energy during the summer or during windy days that you either have to use or waste.

>>25071881
>you know renewable energy costs pretty much zero?
lmao

>>25073710
why are many miners in china? because hydro is literally free energy

>>25073595
typical dimwit projecting their insecurities

>>25073937
resorts to ad hom when he gets raped

>>25073952
name something that works better than bitcoin

>>25073952
lol where did I get "raped"? I haven't even bothered refuting your points that have been discussed repeatedly for the past 12 years since my time is more valuable than that.

>>25074113
doesn't even deny that he blatantly ad homs LOL

you've been refuting the same points for 12 years but apparently you're still so bad at doing so that you make blatantly false arguments and resort to ad homs immediately? i can't imagine with a brain as bad as yours that your time is worth as much as you're saying it is.

But crypto networks have utility dude. It's all about what people are willing to pay for access to it. Dont forget about DeFi that's all about gaining more fiat. The networks have to run on something. Even if you think crypto currency is a meme DeFi has mad money in it

>>25073973
>>25074226

>>25074226
You're the one constantly attacking people's intelligence throughout this thread. I'm just calling you out on the fact that it's typically those projecting insecurities of their own intelligence who do that. So cry more about muh ad homs lmfao...stay poor nocoiner, go back to r*ddit, cope, seethe and dilate.

>>25074380
uh no i only point out the retards when they say retarded things to make them feel bad in conjunction with a proper argument. there are plenty of people here for whom i have never even mentioned their intelligence because it's clear they are on par.

your inability to detect that makes me think you're dumb as shit. what you perceive has insecurity is, in actuality, rage and intolerance towards the stupid, of which you are clearly a part.

>>25069580
I'd argue that people don't into stocks to get rich. They only go into stocks to see their savings grow a little.

It's not the 10x, 50x, 100x that crypto promises.

>>25074233
i just wonder how many of the bitcoin "investors" are aware of any of this when they actually buy bitcoin. in truth, saying crypto has literally no utility is probably an exaggeration, but i'm saying the utility it has, for the vast majority of the people buying it, is low to non-existent.

>>25074489
you still can't name something that works better than bitcoin

>>25074447
promises and delivers. any emeriging asset class will have outsized gains. just like early days of stocks

>>25074851
yes, XRP is still the fastest and cheapest way to move money.

>>25074920
not decentralized
>8% of nodes are ripples
that doesn't matter because the default USL has only ripple nodes, so the other 92% of ripple's nodes basically just copy the 8%.

>>25074950
meant unl