/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>24995475
>he stole my apple
>no I didn't
The Biggest Case.

>>24995475
Explain to me why Kleros can't exist with fiat. Where you stake fiat rather than crypto.

>>24995475
>thinking the jurors aren't corrupt and in on it

Uniswap for the needful

>>24995588
eosfinex sirs ,,

>>24995475
SIRS

>objection!

wait, so PNK isn't a meme?

>>24995551
Read the white paper retard it’s literally impossible to “be in on it”

>>24995533
Fiat really

>>24995533
its explained in the whitepaper.
if kleros didnt use its own token but used eth or fiat to stake for votes, a rich person could simply buy extremely many votes and manipulate voting outcomes by himself.
Using PNK it is extremely unprofitable to manipulate votes because you would have to buy all the PNK from the market which would drive the price insanely high and thus extremely expensive to do, but even better you now have devalued your own PNK that you bought by manipulating cases and now you lost all your money sire. Community will also just fork the token and not include your whale stack

>>24995533
No dude, you have to get boomers to buy the crypto. You have to get a 50-year-old to download Binance (if it's legal in their area) and then buy the Kleros and transfer it to a wallet. Subsequent, you have to show the boomer how to declare it on their taxes, then calculate their capital gains increases based upon the time from which the kleros was used vs. the time kleros was spent on a service.

All of this to get a random guy to paint his fence. When the random guy doesn't actually paint his fence, and he gets "FUCK YOU SUCK A FUCK FUCK YOU #1 #1 PEPE" as a court ruling, he then has to appeal. Subsequently he needs to get his money back in Kleros, and then either hire someone else or declare on his taxes the value change between when he purchased kleros and the amount given. Since there is an extreme fluctuation in the value of Kleros, he has lost half his money. So, as you can see, the only way for Kleros to actually work and be profitable is for Paypal, who doesn't have to pay capital gains taxes, to use it to automate services.

>>24995654

>>24995735
That's the point right? Why else use cryptocurrency, why can't it be USD. I can't think of any altcoins that can't simply exist with the existing paradigms. They simply jumped on the "decentralized" bandwagon, without learning it, earning it or actualizing it. And the irony is Kleros is probably massively centralized, just like every other altcoin.

>>24995760
A rich person can buy PNK. There is no catch-22 here that you seem to imply. If the price goes up, then the price goes up. Now it takes more money to influence the case. You're presupposing that people that hold PNK are inherently ethical or less prone to manipulation. It makes no sense. If you fork the token what the hell is the point, you just further centralized your idea. This logic is profoundly simple.

>>24996029
>token's value is in just arbitration
>someone pays a shitton to game arbitration
>token's value plummets
>their recently bought pnk is worthless
>community forks out the buyer
wow, that was so difficult to follow wtf
retard

>>24995801
Wrong, only jurors need to hold PNK. You don't need to know shit about crypto to use Kleros. Weak fud.

>>24996029
You obviously haven’t read the white paper or done any research I suggest you do that before coming up with retarded theories about why things can’t work when people infinitely smarter than you already did - dickhead

>>24995760
Top kek, basically youre saying pnk is such a shitcoin, literally no one would want to buy it, or have anything to do with this jury

>>24996089
>someone pays a shitton to game arbitration
>breaks the system (the code is law, and you've broken the code via the token).
>community forks out the buyer, rendering the entire system pointless in the first place
>This continues on for as long as people with deep pockets can influence cases. And when the community "decides" to fork the chain, it perpetually defeats the purpose of the system in the first place

>>24995533
Why would you stake international court cases in fiat?
>centralized
>not trustless
>not anonymous
>transaction costs
>regulations and other frictions

Why would you go against the whole point of why decentralized systems developed in the first place? Just because some old boomer could use your tech? >>24995801

>>24996458
Dunno what you're on about. You really think someone could buy over 50% of a token? Especially once it's at a decent mcap?

The kleros FUD in this thread is so bad, I have to assume you're falseflagging.

>>24996658
the real fud is this : token not needed.

>>24996621
You need 51% of all tokens to influence a case?

>>24996596
You've stolen trustlessness/decentralization from Bitcoin, which are all important. ETH and Kleros are decentralized how? Anonymity can be solved in a non-crypto sphere, as can transaction costs and borders.

The village needs you pajeet fucks to stfu about doing the needful until January.

>>24996947
>You need 51% of all tokens to influence a case?
You'll need to influence ALL the cases if you want to win in an obviously fraudulent case, because the opponent can appeal infinitely, if they know any rational jury will defend their case. Every time the jury doubles, so you'll need to buy twice as many jury on every new appeal, theoretically (you'll run out of money before that) up to the majority of all tokenholders.

>You've stolen trustlessness/decentralization from Bitcoin, which are all important.
What?

>ETH and Kleros are decentralized how?
How is Kleros not decentralized? The whole process is ruled by smart contracts, the jury is anonymous and picked randomly, according to staking.

>Anonymity can be solved in a non-crypto sphere as can transaction costs and borders.
How?? How would you anonymously stake fiat? How would you avoid international transaction costs and regulations if you're not from US (and you need to stake USD)?

>>24997582
What happen January sir

>>24997871
My village will have its cow, sir. Steak to feed on.

>>24997827
>can appeal infinitely
So, the verdict can be perpetually appealed? I'm not a legal expert, but I'm not sure you need to be to understand why there are reasons this doesn't exist in judicial systems. It sort of defeats the purpose of a case, no?

Depending on how obvious it is, an obviously fraudulent case won't need to exist in the first place. The tricky cases are the ones you've got to focus on.

Rather than creating an impartial (admittedly flawed) system of deciding outcome, you're introducing new means of influencing meddling by directly introducing money.

ETH is controlled by a trivial amount of people. It's not even remotely close to as decentralized/trustless as Bitcoin. Kleros is only as ultimately decentralized as ETH. It sounds like Kleros depends on the Kleros coins - therefore it's centralization exists hugely in the concentration of those tokens. I'm not even going to look up the Etherscan holders chart, because they probably don't even list it. Furthermore, Kleros is a private company, any type of serious adoption would see massive regulation.

I'm not going to lie, it's an interesting idea, but the game theory isn't as perfect as it needs to be. Good luck, I wish you guys the best.

>>24998338
>appealing has a cost
>loser pays the jury fees
>there exists a high court
I'm only giving you the simplified answers relating to your questions. If you want the full picture, read the whitepaper.

You really think ETH isn't decentralized? Just because of a living autistic memeboy?

>>24998338
You are a retard

>>24998338
>ETH isn’t decentralized
>Kleros isn’t decentralized
I centralize in your mother’s anus bloody cocksucker!! Basterd bitch sir!

>>24999200
>>24998338
I dunno, Anon 38 makes a pretty decent counterpoint. Imma have to go with him.

>>24999200
>>24998338
I mean Anon 200. (The village has had too much whiskey)

>>24999200
Based

Sirs, I have a feeling that all of this fud of recent means that a major listing is coming and the mother of all pumps will commence.