/biz/ - Business & Finance

>what is wCRES

>>24842601
The ledger

ive never met anyone irl that is as dumb as you

for the sake of humanity please be a larp

>>24842601
that's not what determines value at all... what creates the perceived value of something? Humans subjectivity. If it is perceived to be/create value than it is. Cash has nothing to do with it.

>>24842601
Same reason gold has value. Or pokemon cards.

>>24842601
fungibility
scarcity
portability
>$1.65B moved across the world in minutes for a $3 fee
go fuck yourself

>>24842647
This is literally what every major finance academic says creates value.

You're terminally stupid if you say otherwise.

>>24842693
Buffet says gold has no real value.

>>24842716
Why should anyone on the receiving end buy the bitcoin?

It would be like if i used a unique rock as a means of exchange, Bought it, shipped it across the world, and expected someone on the other side to buy it.

it has value as long as there is at least one other autist willing to buy your bags

>>24842851
Of course Buffet thinks that

>>24842897
He's a genius and the guy who made value investing cool.

It's true though, it's value comes from the fact that others think it has value, basically a ponzi scheme.

>>24842936
You're comparing Bitcoin to the wrong thing. Buffet famously said, regarding Bitcoin:

>"Why would I invest in something I don't understand"

Not everyone is good at doing everything. In any case, Paul Tudor Jones and Stanley Druckemiller have invested in Bitcoin. They are geniuses.

We are currently experiencing an unprecedented worldwide massive inflationary event, with no end in sight. This is what gives Bitcoin value. Fiat is latin for "let it be done". It's backed by the government telling you it's backed by the government. "True" inflation is 7% historically, this means that by holding cash, your purchashing power is being bled out by 7% a year. This compounds exponentially. It's why everything costs so much more now, it happens without you ever seeing it happen in your bank account though, it's an invisible tax.

Bonds have close to zero yield and are negative in Europe, the stock market is at an ATH during a recession. Bitcoin is also attractive, because other assets are now unattractive.

If you're genuinely curious, listen to a few interviews with Michael Saylor or Raoul Pal, they'll provide you with a good understanding of why you should invest. Good luck.

>>24842851
>It would be like if i used a unique rock as a means of exchange, Bought it, shipped it across the world, and expected someone on the other side to buy it.

>>24843074
Fiat is backed by the threat of going to jail if you don't pay your taxes in it.. The ability to walk around and not go to prison IS intrinsic value akin to food, water, and shelter.

I'll check out those interviews, but i don't see why anyone would want to own bitcoin just because money is devaluing, owning value in hard property like homes or stocks seems to make more sense.

>>24843111
checked
>>24843170
gold literally is just a fucking shiny rock. if we priced gold on only industrial applications, it would be worth around 50 dollars an ounce. I think in the future, bitcoin will probably be like gold and it will barely outperform inflation. However, right now people know that if bitcoin becomes huge like gold, everyone will try to own at least some in their investment portfolios, similar to how many investment firms have gold in their portfolio. that's why hedge funds are buying and that's why people like saylor are buying ,because they know they are basically frontrunning everyone else.

>>24842622
True, so why should 2nd layer transactions be allowed, why should mutability be allowed. The market is way too rational to not see those fundamental flaws in the top 2 coins at the moment
>>24843074
he said specifically to bitcoin, that it is rat poison squared. The guy is old school cool, has his merits, and his portfolio shows it, yet he catched late to innovation.
>>24842672
actually it is utility that creates value. Price is a different thing alltogether, at the moment highly driven just by speculation.
>>24842716
here we can see utility in action, however it also shows that for payments less than 50-100usd it has no utility, as other transfer and payment providers have needed utility at the same or lower cost. Now you can extrapolate how much more users will come in....not many, so basically we get back to speculation.

Fleeing from fiat? yes, but were to? BTC? Digital Gold? Is it really? because as little utility as gold has, you can make earrings out of it if need be with little work and believe me, Gold on a naked woman in dim candle light is a beatiful sight.
BTC is evermore showing the missing utility for mass adoption.
>>24843111
actually yes, BTC is more like the diamond trade. Yes, you can go to Brussels or Antwerp, buy diamonds and go to who knowswhere to sell them again, but you need to find that person. The liquidity to offload those 1.6B daily without slippage is probably not there.

>>24842601
Crypto is money, it is not supposed to generate cashflow or interest by itself.

Bitcoin as Satoshi wrote is a cash system, whereby the tokens in the bitcoin system are a commodity and their movement in the network... funny enough also named bitcoin create an nearly inmutable ledger. Like other commodities, like gold for example, those token can and are being used as money. The value comes again on how much utility that commodity has. Can it be used for anything else, well satoshi wrote yes...


and now to the final one:

How does Cash generate value if its not real?

>>24844351
Because you need it to pay taxes, and if you don't pay taxes you go to jail.

Not going to jail is an intrinsic value.

>>24842936
Ponzi scheme.... Well on meta level everything your dog doesn´t appreciate is by default a ponzi scheme.

cash as you know it, fiat currency is basically also a ponzi scheme, an abstract piramid, whereby everybody thinks those numbers on the screen and those slips of cotton will get them food, shelter, pussy and everything else on the rungs of Maslow´s piramid and thinks that the pperson he is exchanging with also thinks that. Fiat´s value comes basically also from thinking that the other thinks the way you think. All just thinking.....Dog does not appreciate thinking. Dog does not think in piramids. Dog does not scheme.

time and freedom do not generate cash either inofthemselves

>>24842851
Crypto is cash, retard. What part of cryptoCURRENCY don’t you understand?

>>24844406
meh, you had to pay and have to pay taxes in countries with hiperinflation which is when by definition cash loses value into nothing, thereby rendering the you have to pay taxes narrative as a non issue.


It is utility that gives the cash its value.

>>24844491
The supply outpaced the rate that you had to pay your taxes in those examples.

>>24844408
Fiat money has actual value because if you don't use it the governmnet will throw you in jail. Freedom is intrinsic value.

>>24842601
What is "cash"?

>>24844597
he doenst get it

>>24842601
how does cash have value if it doesn't generate crypto?

>>24844643
There's no intrinsic value to crypto

Cash actually has value, the ability to pay taxes aka not go to prison.

>>24842601
WTF do you think DMM / DMG is doing? Are you this new?

>>24844299
> all these words
> replies to everyone
> reasoned, informed objections to bitcoin
Either you really don’t believe in btc and are trying to warn people out of the goodness of your heart, or bitcoin is about to moon.

>>24842601
>What value does crypto bring to the table?

bitcoin represents an immutable, permanent ledger of transactions as a network that is secured by constant and distributed processing power
there was nothing ever like it in the history of mankind (that worked), much less one that can never be shut down

ethereum represents a distributed virtual machine processor that can run "programs" through distributed computing on the ethereum network
it is the first true "world computer" in the history of mankind (that works), and it can never be shut down by any entity

these are both emerging asset classes, and owning sats or ether represents partial ownership of the network in question, and represents your ability to participate in the network activity

if the supply of ether of these was infinite, it would be unremarkable, but supply is limited either with a hard cap or through increasing difficulty of 'mining'

so, to answer your question, the value of crypto is derived by the network effect of the crypto in question, as well as its baseline value as a method of transaction, as well as the speculative value according to investors as its status a an emerging asset class

>>24844491
One of the best abilities of cash is its ability to generate more cash, if you make it work for you. Crypto takes this to the next level by making your cash movable between more contexts and platforms, allowing greater innovation in financial products that will help your crypto money work for you.
Sure, most dollars were already 1s and 0s in the banks’ computer systems, but only with the advent of tether could you suddenly easily send your dollars to a smart contract. The value proposition of crypto, in the end, is that it allows your money to work harder for you, so crypto generates cash.
Currently it also generates riches via speculation, as the value of a new class of stores of value and financial products built on top are in price discovery.