/biz/ - Business & Finance

>pretend investing

Depends what your goal is.

VIG is easymode long term gains.

If you want to "win" the /biz/ marketwatch game then just complete a few penny stock pump and dumps.

>>244091
you sound upset that your portfolio doesnt look like mine

>>244092
>virtual stock exchange games
too bad it's not real :(((

jesus did you just pick stocks at random?

>>244091
Im with this guy. This is not a good "investment" advice thread if you are starting with a fucking game. You are not investing, you are playing. Fuck off and come back when you have real risk.

>>244101

>RUSS
>not RUSL

Enjoy earning jack shit, OP.

Personally, I bet $5000 on a russian bull market for the next week or two, then I'm cashing out and staying the fuck away from stocks, because I don't bet on something unless I'm absolutely sure, and I don't like the way the stock market is looking right now.

>>244101
so what? Practise is practise, and in the finance game you need o be as well educated and knowledgable as possible

>>244131
Then the OP should start it by specifying he wants advice for his game not investment advice. If you cant see the difference then you must be new.

>>244136
You don't happen to have OCD do you? An amatuer boxing bout is still a bout. It's not a professional bout the barebones principles are involved.

>Not diversifying your portfolio.

>>244141
Thanks for letting us know how new you are.

>>244146
>being proud of being an oldfag
kek

>>244091
>throwing your money at the market with no idea or experience of what's going on
top kek

this is how you kids end up bankrupt

>>244365
protip : only fools pick stocks or daytrade

it is literally gambling

>>244143
What site is this?

>>244091
>not learning how to research and valuate companies, recognize price movements and recognize swings before putting real money on the stock market
that's not being smart, that's called being an unrealistic arrogant idiot

OP is doing the right thing right there

>>244400
So when I spent hours researching BWLD and monitoring the company every day and predicted that it would show high earnings in summer 2013 and investors would get excited when their Q3 came out I was gambling.

>>244407
>defying the Efficient Market Truth(tm)
yeah anon you know so much better than every financial firm on earth

I think I'll buy KING if it manages to fall below 10 P/E

>>244409
the market isn't 100% efficient but it isn't 100% random either, sometimes I can't tell whether a company is overvalued or undervalued, it is in "random walk territory", but sometimes a company's price is so out of whack with any reasonable valuation I know it won't last more than a year

I do not have the mental capacity to analyze the entire economy but I can analyze small parcels of it, a new tech company, some piece of news affecting the chemical industry, a new product

as a small investor I don't have to worry about the costs of moving large amounts of money around, it is harder to get 20% returns on a billion dollars than it is to get 20% returns on $10000

Also not all investors are hedge funds with teams of experts at their disposal, some are fanboys who worship elon musk/bitcoins or greedy gamblers acting on impulse. It is not unreasonable to surpass such people in competence.

So you see, there are openings and opportunities available to someone reasonably intelligent and committed, although you are right you have not seen the bigger picture.

Of course you don't care because you are a troll but whatever. I'll open up my beliefs in the hopes of getting some healthy criticism.

>>244427
You Can't Fool A Mathematical Algorithm, Which Correctly Make Up The Vast Majority Of All Trades On Earth

>>244131
Trust me. Once real money is involved, you will sometimes make a very different decision on what you're buying/selling.

>>244432
That's short term. Long term, the company itself and its business play a larger role.

>>244439
We have this 'thing' for long term investment, it's called Mutual Funds like Vanguard, and for 99% of people, maxing their 401k (or more accurately, putting as much in as they can) is by far the best investment they can possibly make, and the 'alternatives' boil down to nothing more than risky gambling

>>244440
You forgot your trip. Also, why the fuck did you capitalize every word in that last post? Don't you know how English works?

>>244443
I don't have a trip, and I capitalize it For The Same Reason You Capitalize God

>>244448
>and I capitalize it For The Same Reason You Capitalize God
Because you're retarded?

>>244432
A mathematical algorithm can't peruse different sources of information trying to determine which e-cigs are likely to be successful, which companies are ahead of the curve.

>>244440
It is part chance and part research and to varying degrees. Bitcoin of course leans more towards gambling, if the FDA will announce whether a new drug will receive approval on a certain date then that relies more on research. It also depends on how you interpret that information, you could wait for the news, or you could sell just before the announcement and simply make a bit of money off other people's speculation.

This is what I mean by how the market is not 100% efficient but not 100% random either. It is not a roulette wheel, it is more like betting on a horse the mafia have given stimulants before a race.

>>244403
ur mum

>>244408
I like this guy

Give more investment advice

>>244087
OP I'm probably as new as you to investment but since everyone is being a faggot on the comments I'll namedrop two books that I'm reading atm

>the intelligent investor by benjamin graham (search for the last edition, it has been continuously updated)
>economics in one lesson by henry hazlit

also investopedia is nice if you're just starting

if anyone has better suggestions, I'd very much like to hear them, as I said I'm very new to this

>>244591
>better ideas

Sure. Secret to "getting rich" with stocks, if you are average joe with no leverage through huge business: buy index funds or ETF:s with low yearly expenses, profit.

Buy one that follows the US (S&P 500 or Russell 1000), one for Europe and if you want you can get one for Asia (booming market). All investing done with 3 easy investment holdings.

Doing anything else is mostly gambling unless you work at an IB and have access to advanced algorithms and 10+hours each day to just analyze the market.

>>244093
>penny stock pump and dumps
You can't buy stocks valued at less than $2

>>244591
>economics in one lesson by henry hazlit
Thats one of the best primers on economics I've read and I lend it out to people who are curious or liberal

>>244820
>Buy one that follows the US (S&P 500 or Russell 1000)
NKY btichez

>in this in this thread
Is this a new meme or is OP a retard?

AAPL, buy or no buy?

>>244916
nope!
Wait till june-july and ride the hype train till August/just before the apple conference.

The Warren Buffet Way by Robert G. Hagstrom

>>244896

>>244591
Read a random walk down wall street faggot

check operating income and net income

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Apple_%28AAPL%29/Data/Key_Metrics#Key_Metrics

the growth has stopped, it followed an almost text book sigma curve except the boost in 2012, now it looks like the ride is over and it will just hover around this level, in 2012 the price was between 500 and 700, in 2013 it was between 400 and 550

aapl has a few new products, iphones still sell like hotcakes and they have a new one with a bigger screen

there is probably some potential for investors to think "we're going back to 2012 numbers, we're going over 600 again"

competitor samsung has continued to grow

http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Financials?s=A005930:KSC&subview=IncomeStatement

>>244125
>RUSL
>Bull Market
>Having this much faith in Russia after they've secluded themselves from the rest of the world so much that they had to invent their own credit system from the ground up
Yeah I dont think RUSL is going to be your choice in the next 2 weeks.

>>244408
>So when I spent hours researching a slot machine and monitor its payouts every day and predicted it's percentage of payout in summer 2013 and quarter slunkers would get excited when their DINGDINGDINGDING came out I was gambling

Protip: All forms of giving money to something in hopes of receiving more back is gambling.

>>245293
So buying treasury bonds is gambling now. Great.

>>245290
Russia is the future.

>>245364

Given the fact that there were negative returns on government bonds, yeah.

>>245560
There will never be negative returns if you hold them until they mature. Only if you insist on selling them when the price goes down.

>>244087
>In this ITT: Investment advice general

1. Use a 20 day trading average to decide buy in.
2. Buy in at a strong price signal.
3. Put a stop loss at 5 days previous with daily update and a stop loss of lowest amount in previous 3 days for day one.
4. Don't ever get attached to any stock. It's just a little moving bar.
5. Take care of never making a big loss and your profits will take care of themselves.


You don't need any magical bullshit trading. Just be careful and try to make consistent small increases because ....IT COMPOUNDS. Only losses stop you from failing at trading, the lack of massive profitable price increases never ever ever EVER stops you from making good profit.

>>245699
What a pleb way of viewing things. If inflation is greater than yield, you have a real negative return.

>>245771
If it's better than keeping it in a savings account, it isn't gambling.

>>245814
If you're betting on the rate of return not being trumped by inflation that sounds a fucking lot like gambling to me.

Might as well bet it all on red, at least you'll know in a couple seconds whether or not you've made any gains instead of fuckin' 20 years.

Good literature to get started with trading/investing/business in general?

Currently reading Reminiscences of a Stock Operater by Lefevre

>>244101
This is not a guy applying for an internship at your hedge fund, this is a guy trying how to learn stocks, and this is a fine way to do it as long as you understand that volume in estock games is infinite and latency is negligible, unlike real life.

>not shorting KING

>>245969
Sorry I didn't realize I was trying to argue with someone with an IQ of 5.

>>245364
Bonds do not always guarantee 100% more money back.

>give your money away
>hope it comes back at a great value
>???
>not gambling

>>245995
US Treasury bonds do.

Yes, you can lose money against inflation, but the same happens to the money in your wallet, and nobody would call holding money in your wallet gambling.

>>245984

Nice ad hominem bro, clearly I'm the stupid one here.

>>245998
Money in your wallet is liquid. Bonds are not liquid, they're an investment. With risk.

>>246002
>Nice ad hominem bro
Nope, just an insult.
>clearly I'm the stupid one here
I'm glad you understand.

>>246006
Treasury bonds are plenty liquid.

They have risk, but cash often has even greater risks.

>>246016

>>245736
Hey buddy.

Literally the only legit advise I've heard on /biz/ thus far.

Why do you pick 20 as your day trading average?

What are your triggers in finding a strong price signal? When it hits below 30 RSI?

A stop loss 5 days previous? I don't understand this one. I usually put stop losses at what I think I can afford to lose. So if I buy $1000 worth of shares, I limit my stop loss to maybe $150-$200 of a loss, so if my shares all of a sudden become $800, I'm out. Is this is a good strat?

I get attached to stocks, I really shouldnt. When I buy, then go down. When I sell, they go up.

Pandora was hovering around $30 for several months. Said fuck it, sold, and it went to $35 the next week.

Alternatively, I tried a "buy the fucking dip" of $GGS. Several days later they went bankrupt and their ticker was gone and I was locked out of my shares. But now, they're back as $GEGSQ, and while I'm out a couple hundred $$, I've got a feeling this will pick back up.

Take care of never making a big loss - could you please elaborate? This goes back to your stop lose suggestions?

Once again, 10/10 quality post. Thanks.

>>246021
It's ok dude, at least I'm not the guy who thinks its a good idea to bet all my money on roulette because he thinks it's comparable to holding cash.

>>246031

>>246024
>Why do you pick 20?

There's nothing special about the number 20 but a greater amount has lag and shorter has more volatility in your analysis. Looking at the 20 previous bars gives a dependable look at the trend so when you see a buy signal it's more likely to not dip back down to your stop.


>What are your triggers in finding a strong price signal?

I look at the 20 previous day candle bars for a consistent downtrend to watch out for buy in and wait until the first day the close is above the previous days highest.

I'll split this reply up because 1500char

>A stop loss 5 days previous? I don't understand this one. I usually put stop losses at what I think I can afford to lose. So if I buy $1000 worth of shares, I limit my stop loss to maybe $150-$200 of a loss, so if my shares all of a sudden become $800, I'm out. Is this is a good strat?

The purpose is to find a decent buy signal, hop on and hitch a ride up steadily until the sell signal.
What you think you can afford to lose? Use maths instead of your opinion.
When you buy in, you hopefully are at the bottom, any further drop means you bail.

Say you buy in, the day end is above the previous day's high. You put a stop at the previous days low. and this stop increases after a few days increases so you get your stoploss above your buy in level. cont..

>>247235

>I get attached to stocks, I really shouldnt. When I buy, then go down. When I sell, they go up.

you shouldn't ever hold when it's not a profitable situation

>Pandora was hovering around $30 for several months. Said fuck it, sold, and it went to $35 the next week.

What did the charts say?
Follow the charts because they often give the correct information to you on a plate and even then you just stoploss so at most you lose only to the last day's low.


>Alternatively, I tried a "buy the fucking dip" of $GGS. Several days later they went bankrupt and their ticker was gone and I was locked out of my shares. But now, they're back as $GEGSQ, and while I'm out a couple hundred $$, I've got a feeling this will pick back up.

Honestly, the charts? What happened when you bought in?

>Take care of never making a big loss - could you please elaborate? This goes back to your stop lose suggestions?

If you follow a rule that for every buy in you make you have a stoploss initially of the previous days low, the worst that can ever happen is that you make a bunch of very small losses of 1 day and this will never hurt you substantially. You will also make many buy ins that develop into a long uptrend and you increase your stoploss for 5 days previous low once you are above the buy in until the sell signal. These two things mean you profit consistently.

You need a lesson on the basics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWaJm03rVxg

This guys decent, it's all nuts and bolts.

>>244143
OP doesn't have to worry about that right now, he just needs to make non shitty pics.

>>247251
Please keep TA quackery out of investment threads.

>>246024
>Take care of never making a big loss - could you please elaborate?

Whatever you do, don't do this:
>Alternatively, I tried a "buy the fucking dip" of $GGS. Several days later they went bankrupt and their ticker was gone and I was locked out of my shares. But now, they're back as $GEGSQ, and while I'm out a couple hundred $$, I've got a feeling this will pick back up.

Adding "Q" to the end of a stock symbol means the company is involved in bankruptcy. What exactly gives you the feeling they will just pick back up for the hell of it? Chances are they are dead in the water.

>>244400
>picking stocks = day trading

Show me a decent fund that offers a pure play on the tobacco sector. Until then, I'll just keep gambling on whether my dividends will grow at 10% or just 5%. Ain't gonna get that at Vanguard

Uhm... I forgot how to sell my stocks in this game...

HAHA smelly plebs.

>INVESTING

Not just putting money into all of Vanguard's funds!

>>247368
TA is bullshit but since so many people follow it, it becomes self-fulfilling. If one has time, it is worth learning just so one can get better entry and exit points.

>>247529
>since so many people follow it, it becomes self-fulfilling
I doubt that's even true. You're just begging for HFT to take advantage of you.
If TA actually worked, the price gaps would be buried immediately by people with more money than you or I.

>>244131

A real firm would hire a guy who lost $10K trading with real money then making 100% P/L on a paper money account. Trading with real money versus simulators are two different animals. Just because you have the perfect happiest pet in the Sims Pets doesn't make you a good caretaker of a real dog.