/biz/ - Business & Finance

stocks are a ponzi scheme

https://theponzifactor.com/

>>24351325
People buy it because it's currently the only way to buy stock in Elon Musk. It isn't about the cars.

>>24351407
This

>>24351325
Fucking ZOOMERS are starting to invest in the Stock market, that's why.

What would happen to tesla if elon died

>>24351424
There's no way that amount of money is coming from retail, let alone actual kids

>>24351435
They would just send another Elon from the future to replace him. It's already happened once.

>>24351325
Dont know but redditors are rich now.

>>24351440
its not coming from retail 'investors'.

>>24351325
It's a giant money laundering scheme for CIA's black budget. It was pretty well documented few years ago, but everything on this subject get (((cleansed))) on sight nowaday.
Reminder Elon's family is part of the black nobility, he ALWAYS has been designed to be a success machine by the illuminakikes.

>>24351451
Ofc, or an andoid with synthetic elon ai

>>24351514
Damn

It's a bubble.

Basically what's going on with software, EV and green stocks is that people have this wague idea that they will transform the world and be all powerful. This concept overthrows traditional investment metrics and allows stock price to go to absurd levels.

When the EV revolution is here and the fantasy of everyone driving a Tesla becomes confronted with the harsh reality of competition then price will drop significantly.

I'm not sure how clear I'm being put easily put;
with Amazon you take current profits, assume a growth rate and calculate a reasonable future price. For Tesla growth rate is unknown so price can go to infinity. It's not gonna last, it'a a bubble.

>>24351380
yep

>>24351435

It would be extremely painful

>>24351325
This is why market cap is a meme.
XRP $2K eoy.
Christ is king.
But seriously, Tesla's success proves everything is fake and gay. Embrace it, and profit.

everyone I know who is even mildly into stocks own at least one EV-manufacturer. They can have a portfolio of three securities and one of them will be an EV-manufacturer.

When normies have fomo'd in and prices are completely outrageous it's the end of a market cycle. Exact same thing happened during dotcom. bubble. Everyone hade FOMO'd in because dotcom only goes up. Until it doesn't and ends up crashing 95%

>>24351325
Where do we go from here bros?

>>24351966
>But seriously, Tesla's success proves everything is fake and gay. Embrace it, and profit.

no, it really doesn't. if you buy 1000 stocks with Teslas book you are getting financially ruined 995 times and end up succeeding 5 times. Saying Tesla disproves fundamental analysis is completely wrong. It's one exception, if you look for clown valuated companies with parabolic pumps to fomo into you are generally gonna have a really bad time.

>>24351979
things go up in a straight line this time its different we are never going down from here this a new paradigm

>>24351922
>Competition
HAHAHAHAHAHA, Tesla bears have been saying "Competition is coming! Competition is right around the corner! This year is slow but following next year the floodgates are open!" meanwhile in reality Tesla has no real competitors in the west and the only real competition is coming from China.

>>24351424
>zoomers can move $110 billion of worth of TSLA stock in a week
anon I..

>>24351512
Link to this thread?

>>24351325
Just buy alot of puts, I'm sure it will work out

>>24351407
Pretty much. I got laughed at a few years ago when I said Musk would be the first trillionaire. Bezos has no real room for explosive growth unless his space programme can actually catch up to the strides SpaceX are making.

And until SpaceX goes Public, Tesla will keep rising. I really don’t think most people understand the ramifications that SpaceX and any company latching onto it will have in the future.

Then chuck in the prospect of Neuralink and you have here the most influential man in all of human history. Enjoy it

>>24351424
This. Robinhood literally changed everything

>>24351514
he's basically the howard hughes of 2020, he pulled it off better too, he might even be the best ever. the thing is i have this weird theory he is a ccp sleeper agent and he's going to wait until a critical moment to pull the rug and crash the entire market.

>>24351325
musk and whoever advises him are ahead of the game, he was the first to shill his stock on reddit and just hype his shit on reddit. everybody does it now but he was the first. i remember people telling me to buy tesla bc it was on reddit.

>>24351325
it's not about cars, it's about the AI take over. Tesla has the best self driving AI for trucks and cars. spacex provides the backbone network of the AI. They also have the most advanced battery research, which will be very important not just for cars but for drone delivery (probably passenger drones will be a thing too). Nobody can compete with Tesla in AI. Only Huawei can compete and probably wont outside of china.

>>24352167
Space X is never going public. At best they will spin off StarLink in order to get access to capital markets while not compromising Space X mission of reaching Mars.

>P/E of 1000
wew lad. He's a psyop, always been. Can't stand how he's labeled as the real life iron man by numales while he just want to chip us all with Neuralink.
plus he called his son "x ae a 12"
>>24351514
based, I agree with you.

>>24352273
I’ve personally seen documents of a share offering to private investors. I anticipate they’ll go public in 2024/2025 ahead of their ambition to have crewed mission to Mars for 2027

>>24351325
Stock market doesn't reflect real life value. Look at the internet, most valuable invention of this century and .com bubble went bust. The reason Tesla is so valuable is because of Musk. Investors think, and have been proven right to a large extent so far, that the marketing personality of Elon sells really well. So they put money in Tesla to make more money. This spirals into a positive feedback loop where more investment increases Tesla's value, making it more valuable to invest in. Simple as

>>24352020
There is more competition especally if plug in hybrids are coming they have a lager range and dont need to charge that often. People just buy Tesla for the memes

>>24351325
They’re not a car company
They’re a tech company

>>24352243
>Only Huawei can compete(steal all tech) and probably wont outside of china

>>24352020
>HAHAHAHAHAHA, Tesla bears have been saying "Competition is coming! Competition is right around the corner!

>>24352020
>>24352349
gm and ford are unexciting and they suck, i invest in both hoping they would gain on tesla and all they do is bitch and moan. those two companies have convinced me unions are absolute shit. you know why people invest in tesla? they think musk is american and they think it's an american car company that isn't absolute shit. that's why. the black money stuff is real but at the end of the day americans want a car company that isn't total utter rustbelt fecal matter. the fucking unions up north have destroyed so much of our country its fucking criminal and it's just going to keep happening, and they are just going to keep whining about musk.

>>24352349
Yeah there is more competition and they amount to almost nothing in the US. China is the only place where there is real competition and the EU is TBD since most Tesla's car are too big for the average EU market which is a hindrance towards sales but I guess a hatchback Tesla is the next model to be revealed in a few months. Also Tesla grow potential isn't tied towards bigger car sales alone since it also includes FSD which most car manufacturers don't have an in house solution and relied on Movileye for the technology.

>>24352316
Oh yeah private investment is likely, what I am saying is that a public trade company has other obligations that could put the long goal of Space X in a halt since reaching mars while fucking badass has no real economic benefits in the short term which is what most public trade companies care about.

>>24351325
Elon is the best example of human potentiality. He will keep ahead of his competitiors because he is an unparalleled genius.

>>24352446
It only took them like 5 years to release a competitive car! I am sure they are going to catch up to Tesla in no time now!

>>24352494
Yeah that's not how this works. VAG has been racing hybrids for over a decade. They decided to build that now. All the German automakers have extensive experience in high performance hybrid drivetrains.

Just remember, Musk is too much of a pussy to test his engineering in actual competition. There is a reason for this.

>>24352447
Nice hot take, how about you figure out what a dividend stock is before you make yourself look even dumber.

>>24352571
>Just remember, Musk is too much of a pussy to test his engineering in actual competition
Yeah, never thought about that..

>>24352594
>but we have dividends

yeah that they are shit, there are much better dividends out there. at the end of the day it's pennies compared to what the taxpayer has had to dish out to keep these shit companies floating in the toilet.

Mars. They'll drive there first.
Start being a BORE.

Why invest in Columbus or Hughes?

>>24352273
>>24352316
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/spacex-likely-to-spin-off-starlink-business-and-pursue-an-ipo
They are planning a Starlink IPO in a few years when Starlink has matured

>>24351325
Because tesla isn't an automobile manufacturer, and the sooner you realize that the sooner you realize the current stock price is cheap.

Tesla is a technology company that happens to make cars. Their main business is not in the cars that they make but in the software that they produce. They have an unassailable self driving lead, and will sell their technology to other manufacturers because they have more data than anyone else by orders of magnitude. They way their business operates through vertical integration is beyond anything else ever seen before in other manufacturers.

Buying tesla is more similar to buying apple than buying GM. Most people don't get it still and therefore tesla is still cheap.

>>24351435
Grimes would give birth to another won that would reach current Elon age in ~week

>>24352493
>>24352494
Look at these smooth brains.
You fuckers have probably never been the best at anything. It's not easy to stay in front, they get closer and closer everytime you innovate they catch up quicker and quicker. It's inevitable that someone passes them. Unless he's a cia/kike asset.

>>24353355
checked and /thread

im too poor for Tesla but if I wasn't I'd be stacking. Stop thinking of it as a car company.

>>24352960
Well I know now what to invest in the next few years then. I just hope Starlink doesn't go public before 2025.

>>24353593
starlink ipo is going to be fucking insane if it happens.

>>24353461
>It's not easy to stay in front
Is not when you are in a cruise mode worrying about what the number 1 thinks of instead of investing into making yourself and your product better. This is why Tesla is different even when they have a lead in most of the fields they are in, they are still innovating and investing further and further into R&D and even expanding into providing their own raw materials.

If you think Tesla isn't going to gain a lion's share of the EV Market, FSD, V2G in a market of first takes most then all I can say is keep doubting since the most people listen to you and people like you the longer it will take for Tesla stock to reach its true valuation which allows me to keep investing more and more into Tesla.

>>24353593
Gives you plenty of time to accumulate

>>24352243
Musk is against AI though, he spoke out against the AI singularity.

>>24352020
Tesla profit in 2019: -850 million

>>24352394
Yeah, only 94% from their money comes from selling cars

>>24352273
>Space X is never going public.

Elon said Space X would definitely go public after they had managed to accomplish their Mars route. That means it would go public at earliest 2024-2025.

>>24353355
>>24353480
check the numbers
>>24354416

It's a car company that also writes software.

>>24354416

They are still a tech company, batteries (This alone will be trillion dollar market before 2030), energy storage, self driving etc.

>>24351325
Because like most stocks it runs on greater fools

>>24354501
The batteries are from Panasonic, no? Energy storage, ok. And self driving is just car software

>>24353480
Exactly as I thought. We're basing reality off of the opinions of poor people
One word: tulip

>>24351325
Irrational exuberance.

>>24351407
Why. He’s a grifter.

>>24351512
This would have more weight if the goldbugs hadn't been saying that the hyperinflationary collapse "is just around the corner" for at least 25 fucking years.
And it's probably been longer, that's just how long I've been interested in markets enough to hear this spiel.
If this actually happened, the government would do the same damn thing they did back in 1933 and ban previous metal holding by retail, and it would be even more effective now because of how much more effectively technology allows government to monitor transactions.
That's the thing the goldbugs always forget to mention, their plan to avoid hyperinflation has ALREADY failed once before.

>>24354764
unfortunately people love grifters, it's true

>>24352167
The guy is a welfare queen. The only thing he is good at is fooling investors.

>doesn’t have 2000 shares of tsla

Stay poor faggots!

>>24351325
Meh I have no problem with that, Elon is smart and works hard, you might disagree with some of his views but he's closest to being /ourguy/ than any rich fag.
Plus he deserves it, anyone who makes reusable rockets and self driving electric cars and digs tunnels and makes brain chip AI shit deserves to be rich.
Better him than Gates or some Rothschild child rapist desu, Elon reminds me of Trump, he's real, got hair implants, fucked beautiful women after he made it, had lots of kids, speaks about everything and anything, almost named the jew, etc.
If you think Gates or Buffet or Bezos deserve their money more than him then you're one of those who think Obama was better than Trump, an NPC who only looks at the outside, and you need to kys.

>>24352020
You americans do not understand how the EV market is developing, cause you haven't started to transition to it properly. In Norway more than 50% of new car sales are pure EVs (more than 80% if you include hybrids), and believe me, Tesla has plenty of competition.

>>24353355
Self driving is a meme, space travel is a waste of resources. Those dub dubs are wasted on you.

>>24355020
>norway

>>24351512
Buffet is not staying out of stock market lmao what a load of bulshit and ppl here tend to believe any sorts of uneducated hillbilly opinion like the on in the screencap if it fits their presumptions
What a load of bollocks jesus
Stay deluded and poor faggots

>>24355349
Ok boomer

>>24351512
The problem is that inflation isn't happening because people that get that money are too rich already and just shuffle it to other investments.
It can last for decades more

>>24354579
>The batteries are from Panasonic, no?

Did you watch battery day at all? Tesla is already producing their 4680 batteries in their Freemont test factory. They are going to ramp up the production after Giga Berlin and Texas are complete.

>>24351325
stonk market cap is not same as value. book value toyota is another planet compared to tesla ofcourse. market cap reacts very quickly to bids and asks. same reason jeff bezo real fortune is
less because if he started to sell stonk market cap of amzn would nose dive

>>24355770
I'm not watchin Panasonic presentations either, what's your point?

>>24351435
Easy, he would be cloned.

>>24352446
Imagine thinking a 150k car is competition

>>24355020
>Norway
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah because a market of 50 cars a year matters.

>>24354416
>>24354335
Oh watch out is a Tesla bear. Look at him and laugh but remember they are an endangered species after shorting Tesla for years. Go KYS david einhorn.

>>24356346
These are just facts, i want to buy, but those points stop me from buying and thinking it's a bubble.

Their competitors are mostly dinosaurs who are unable to change in the ways needed to be competitive with Tesla 5-10 years from now.

>>24351380
This book is fundamentally flawed. Stocks are an auction.

I sell a stock at 10 dollars
Someone buys the stock at ten dollars, the price is now 10 dollars a share
You sell the stock at 20 dollars, I buy the stock back. The price is now 20 dollars.

We just drove the price up 100% without any new buyers

>>24356368
My friend if you applied the same logic you would have missed the Amazon and Netflix train. You have to wonder where the money is going if a company is losing money, Tesla has been building Factories for years and now they are building 2 at the same time and they are still making money . The argument of the Regulatory credits is sound since they aren't a constant flow of money but everyone seems to agree that Tesla will benefit the most from them since ICE car manufacturers don't want to risk profitability and will keep making ICE cars even if they fuck up their Credits numbers and they have to Buy them from Tesla in the end, which is basically founding Tesla to invest into having a bigger lead in the EV market.

If you wait for the "right" indicators to give you a green light to buy into Tesla you may be too late to catch the type of grow that can change your life.

>>24352024
Sure they can. It's literally pumped by clueless zoomers.

https://robintrack.net/symbol/TSLA

>>24356507
Yeah, i just don't want to buy Amazon in 98 when i could get the 2002 price, do you understand?

>>24356534
If you think Tesla stock will ever reach pre covid prices you are insane even if the current rally is overheating and a correction is coming the overall trajectory of the company is upwards and towards a market cap in the Trillions in the next 5 years.

The 2002 moment was right after the covid crash.

>>24356609
Honestly don't think so, it won't go to < 100$ but < 200$ prices are definatly possible

>>24356524
assuming an average account size of $5000 for those 563k users, they hold less than 0.5% of TSLA's total market capitalization

>>24351325
"eco"-imperialism

We are in a massive bubble. Price to book ratios are running wild. I get tesla maybe -- investors see it as the best bet to become a large company into the future of electric vehicles. But as a whole, a lot of stocks are way overvalued.

>>24351325
Redditors with money, normies, and cheating the govt. for free money.

Tesla is screwed.
Waymo and Cruise are more superior autonomous tech
ID.3 and ID.4 and better value than M3 and MY
Chinese factory has been total bust, demand dropped in that market completely
Chinese factory now shipping Chinese M3 to Europe, another market where demand has completely dropped this year due to VW group EVs
Now they are building another boondoggle in Berlin that will serve no clear market
Demand for Teslas has plateaued. People realize they are shoddy and unsafe as well as overpriced.
Tesla will limp along powered by investor cash for some time.
But the Roadster is never coming, the Semi is never coming, there will be no major model updates across the board.
Tesla has a hit a brick wall in terms of R&D.
People think Tesla stock will go up forever on thr promise of the future
But Tesla has no future
They have reached near the capacity of their battery designs.
There will never be a 500 mile range Tesla.
And when people realize that 2012 Model S is not too different from a 2022 Model S except the 22 is less safe and worse built they start to lose their defenders
Tesla Motors is not exempt from the laws of thermodynamics.
Moreover I think EVs in general are a passing fad. And I say this as someone who bought a brand new Tesla.

>>24356735
You don't need $300B of new money to double the BTC market cap, you need much less. Someone just has to buy up all the BTC on the order books to double the price, and that will take much less money, probably around 1 billion dollars or so to accomplish.
>>24352494
https://europe.autonews.com/sales-segment/vw-id3-jumps-top-ev-sales-chart-europe
vw is already destroying tesla in europe. this is just the start and they will release better versions of the id3 soon. more competition is already here you brainlet

29 companies announced today they developed a wireless charging standard for EVs. Tesla was not among them.

Tesla fan boys refuse to believe the rest of the industry can make superior EVs. LoL

>>24352006
this

>>24356923
not reading all that, stocks always go up

>>24353448
>we are borg

>>24354764
Go back.

>100 replies
>anons unironcially discussing """fundamentals"""
>only one (1) reply admitting that current retarded monetary policy is the only thing that affects its current price

>>24352243
>"They make big batteries and cars that only suicide their passengers from time to time. A 3000 PER could be perfectly justified."

>>24352494
Do you know that Tesla lost nearly all its european market share as soon as Audi and Porsche started selling their new EVs?

>>24351325

One day, when you grow up and have to pay hundreds of dollars for simple gasoline car repairs and still never have your car work right, you'll appreciate what an electric car can do.

>>24357356
Nio can swap a battery for a fully charged one in less than 3 minutes. Meanwhile Tesla users have to wait for 30 minutes IF there are available superchargers.
>Tesla has no competition

>>24351325
Have you bought any cars from those guys they suck. Everyone likes electric cars and thinks theyre the future. People invest in tommorow not today dimwit

>>24358195
but why does the future looks 10x as good as last year?

>>24358053
lol this exact scenario happened to me yesterday. $530 for some bullshit faulty valve repair on the engine.
My fault for driving Found On Road Dead