/biz/ - Business & Finance

Probably because of the conventional wisdom, that the funds on rent are now being paid to yourself instead of a landlord
Of course the conventional wisdom ignores that you’re still just renting property from the state. I want to say Minneapolis increased their property taxes by 400%. Your largest asset has a decent chance of becoming your largest liability.

My parents told they bought a house on credit on 2008 and sold on 2020 for the same price they paid...

>>24315645
the american dream
1950s version of made it

because in the boomer days you buy a house you 5x your money no matter how dumb your purchase was
so in hindsight this looks like the obvious move but it is possible that the good times do not last forever... as the market always works in cycles. Eventually someone will be buying the top

Normies have no defense against memetic warfare

they fall for every mainstream meme

>>24315645
It *was* your best investment, as land usually was. But right there is so much hebrew nonsense that even that is in question. Not every day you live in a 1st world nation rapidly become a third world one.

>>24315904
This wasn’t taken in the 1950s. I can drive to this house right now (it’s 20 minutes out) and prove that it looks exactly the same as it does in the photo

>>24315995
I don't know. might be a stock photo trying to recreate the 50s look. could be a modern house as you said.

>>24315645
It's not just about owning your own home. Living in a community where home ownership is high you can generally be sure that crime is low, schools are good and people actually give a shit about the property value.

Because renting is peak cuck. Paying some guys mortgage every month to live in a room.

>>24315851
i think about this too.
There are many reasons why im hestitant to allocate that much money in home ownership. my only realistical prospect right now isbuying an apartment and i'm not really sure that's such a good idea for these reasons, all points below assume i take zero loans and can pay for the apartment in full (dont know if this is a good idea or not?):
1. there is still a fee to be paid for the actual property owner. this fee goes mostly to the loans the propery owner has to the banks, and some other things like water, electricity etc.
2. considering (1) i dont really see the value in being an "owner" since the monthly fee is still comparable to an average rent.
3. the risk involved in ownership and the opportunity cost having locked in my money in an apartment. As anon above said. propery taxes could also fuck you in ass any moment and there is no way to defend against that once your money is locked in, apart from selling, good luck.

i dunno really could someone explain why or why not it's a good idea. to me i dont really see the hype behind it. the only upside is that you are not paying a jew landlord rent but even that gets nullified if you have to pay some bullshit living fee to the propery owner.

>>24315645
As someone who bought a townhouse (bad move) to get out of renting, the interest rates are so low right now it's actually less money than renting was.
Will I get my investment back? No clue. But at least the mortgage doesn't go up, the landlord doesn't let themselves in whenever they want, and I don't have to worry about moving if the prick doesn't renew lease.
New construction too so most house problems won't happen till I'm long gone.
But it's all 100% depending on your situation. In NJ the property tax alone is so stupid outrageous you're always paying rent.

>>24316136
Paying in full is dumb now bc of interest rates.

Pay 5% or like 20k down on a conventional lone for a property that's 350k. You're interest is like 2.8 a year.

You can use that 300k you didn't spend to earn like 8% a year

>>24315645
because renting for life means putting yourself at the mercy of kikes. no matter how hard you cope with being a rent cuck, at the end of the day a mortgage represents a fixed and definitive cost of ownership. you have maintenance/upkeep and property taxes but you're paying these indirect as a renter as well, in addition to perpetual rent ownership, in addition to your landlord's profit margin. renting is for cuckholds, land ownership is for people who have brains. this has been true since the dawn of time and it will continue to be true for the rest of time.

>>24315645
Not your keys not your house.

>>24315899
thats pretty sad desu

>>24316171
>As someone who bought a townhouse (bad move)
Elaborate on this. Townhouses look comfy

>>24315645
my house has appreciated 40% in 2 years and i pay <$300/month in property tax
How much has your apartment appreciated? oh wait it doesnt matter you dont own it
how much do you pay in rent?

>>24316625
Townhouses are comfy for single people who have no intentions having a family. 3 bedrooms typically, so you get the master, an office, and a guestroom. For families they're designed to be just big enough to attract them then rapidly get too small for them. Like, I could list the reason why townhomes are almost like some kind of carefully constructed psychological starting family roach motel. Ah fuck it I will.
>Master Bedroom large to get newlywed or expecting couple to love it, other bedrooms too small for anything but small children. They won't realize this till they have to swap out a crib for a twin bed and it's uncomfortable.
>Second floor is usually open floorplan, so kitchen has no defined area, dining section is too small for a table larger than one of those square breakfast ones that, again, you won't notice till your kids get older
>Living room is usually directly adjacent to deck, so tons of light coming into entertainment area. No other logical place to put tv so another tiny annoyance you'll miss when you get sold on the place but get gradually more annoyed by
>First floor is a 2 car garage but typically only two sedans max. The minivan or truck can't fit so it stays outside. Have fun loading children in the rain which defeats the point of having a garage. The attached room goes directly to the stairs so it's not useful and the backyard is usually a fenced in grass patch
>Stairs stairs stairs. Not a big deal for an adult. A massive pain in the ass when you have to lug children around.
>Bathrooms critically too small
>Laundry room usually in weird spot
>Construction is boring and lazy, wife will wanna change half the shit in there and guess what? Wouldn't a NEW more EXPENSIVE house be a better idea? Sides, this is a starter home we're not STAYING here!
>Usually connected on one or both sides. So might as well be in an apartment.
>HOA usually gets infested by first time home owners and old people.

>>24316700
>down payment
>maintenance and household appliances/furniture
>property tax
>muh unrealized appreciation based on the figment of my imagination
You could have bought an index fund and achieved the same thing with less hassle

>>24315995

car looks pretty 50s

>>24315645
You can either pay and end up owning nothing or pay and end up owning something. It takes a special type of overthinking midwit to fuck this one up.

>>24315995
Drive there and take the pic anon :)

>LOLOLOL! ONLY KIKEKEKS BUY HOUSES AND PAY PROPERTY TAXES!
SMART PEOPLE RENT AND PAY SOME OTHER GUY'S PROPERTY TAX FOR HIM!

Just poor people bitching as per usual and blaming successful people for not being losers like them. Blame your parents for being financially irresponsible and not getting a house to pass down. Sucks to be you, houseless jabronies.

>>24316828
>Can't keep a consistent temperature. The upstairs is too warm, the downstairs is freezing. The only fix to this is zoned heat/cool with another HVAC for the 3rd floor but....oh man that's expensive why not just MOVE like a good goy?
Etc etc. I like my house, I'm very comfy, but It's just me. I can't imagine raising children. The only privacy would in theory be the bedrooms. Everything else is open.

>>24316919
since when did they change C U C K S to KEKS?

>>24316907
it takes 18 years of paying a mortgage before it becomes marginally better than renting

>>24315645
money. renting is throwing your money in the fire, in most places. buying, renting from the state, is much cheaper. you also have control over what you do with the house. e.g. you could paint murals on the walls or turn the entire thing into a rat farm.

>>24316863
>down payment
Security deposit
>maintenance and household appliances/furniture
Rent only covers what the lease covers. Furniture is on you no matter where you live.
>property tax
You're paying it, just not directly.
>muh unrealized appreciation based on the figment of my imagination
Except the fact it's a fucking house.
>You could have bought an index fund and achieved the same thing with less hassle
You could also have a shit landlord who decides he wants you out and doesn't renew your lease. Now you're moving. Again.

>>24316955
Only if you're poorguy with a 30 year mortgage. 15 years pays the principle much faster.

>>24316955
nigger you can buy a house for less than 100k. if you can't buy that in less than 5 years, you are a nigger. i will buy a house with cash in the next 2 years thanks to crypto.

>>24317024
Where in fucking Idaho? lmao

>>24316955
Yeah yeah, we get it, you're smart. Good job.

>>24316995
anti-house talk is cope. renting is serfdom.

>>24316995
>Security deposit
yeah that equals a down payment retard
>You're paying it, just not directly.
lol
>Except the fact it's a fucking house.
lol
>You could also have a shit landlord who decides he wants you out and doesn't renew your lease. Now you're moving. Again.
landlords shockingly hold onto good tenants. it's crazy I know but they don't usually kick you out for no reason

>>24317035
you'd be surprised

>>24317035
I live in Australia and I can buy a semi-luxury apartment in the CBD for 100K and my city is the fastest growing in the world. If I go 10 miles out, I can buy a house and land for the same price. That isn't the average but then again neither is being intelligent.

>>24315645
It's simply a better experience to own your home. Equity is just a bonus

>>24317074
I've never been kicked out before but newsflash, landlords sell, companies change hands, and so does that property you're living in.
A good tenant doesn't mean shit if the landlord is a fucker.

>>24317074
a down payment isn't foregone money you dumb nigger ape, it is money upfront to put skin in the game (collateralization) and it also reduces the amount of the mortgage.

>>24317107
bullshit

>>24317119
Exactly, plus landlord means you require a constant income to pay the rent. If you're an owner, you can just go NEET-mode and live off noodles if you wish.

>falling for the mortgage meme
>not saving up for a few years living with parents then buying a house outright
uhhhhh well see you in 12 or 27 years i guess

>>24316863
COPE

I'm going to bed watch Shkreli tell you why buying is a meme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE9qb1Nhw4A

>>24317138
Bullshit? Cute. I can tell strategic thinking isn't your strong suit. Lemme guess: you look at the average house price and go, "I ain't paying that much". Start trying to think outside the box, you might begin making crypto gains too.

>>24317146
Why would you pay outright for something with only 2-3% interest?
You could invest that money and double it.

>>24315851
Renters pay property taxes you absolute mongoloid

>>24317146
There's a lot of americlaps on this board don't forget. They kick their children out at the age of 18 no matter what, because they've sold their souls to the jew. There's a case to be made about inflation outpacing mortgage interest I guess, but that's if you're stupid enough to hold fiat. This thread is 90% cope/midwit idiots.

>>24315899
Yea that sucks, at least they got the equity towards the mortgage though

>>24317237
>only 2-3% interest!

go back to /pol/ faggot
>>293320286

>>24315645
I bought back in 2013 (which was a really good time to buy). Put down an 80k down payment. I did a side by side hypothetical as I was interested to see if I would have made more in the stock market (SPY). It wasn't even close, it was like 2x the profit from buying the house.

You're not throwing money away, and at a certain point you have a valuable asset.

>>24317237
Less risk. You don't need to work a job for 10-20 years to ensure you don't default. You snap it up and go. The real logical bull move is to have an extra 30K and use that for another down payment on another house and rent the first one out so a stranger pays the mortagage for you. Then repeat a few more times. Finding people to rent is the easiest money ever, especially if you into apartments as the maintenance costs are way lower.

>>24317269
Do you not know how debt works?

>>24315899
If I sold this would be me. A friend bought in 2012 In same neighborhood and sold just now for $80k more tho.

How and where I can check the price of a house in a specific time frame? I'd like to see if better to buy a house with my crypto profits or rent.

>>24317367
>rent.
What profits?
KEK!

>>24316136

You have the right idea. Historically, the stock market has outperformed real estate, while remaining highly liquid at all times.

I don't get the obsession behind ownership. Instead of owning a 250k house, I could have that money in SPY and take out 4% a year to rent a small apartment wherever I feel like at the time, with my share prices continuing to appreciate beyond even what I take out. Meanwhile I'm not tied down to any location, and I can sell or trade my capital freely for any reason, like to buy Bitcoin at the bottom of the next cycle. Oh yeah, not to mention no maintenance outside of a small ETF management fee. With real estate you never know when you're going to get bent over because something critical (heating, A/C, plumbing, electric, flooring, roofing) failed. Plus those property tax increases other anons have mentioned.

Renting is a scam, yes, but I think owning is an even bigger scam. And in a world where everything is a scam, you have to pick the lesser evil.

>>24317519
I own and I have never had problems investing in the stock market and crypto. This year I made an absolute killing.
The biggest myth is either you own a house and have no money or you rent and have money.

>>24316863
>You could have bought an index fund and achieved the same thing with less hassle
sure, but then i'd be paying $2k/month in rent or more for my property instead of $300.
cope cope cope.

>>24317519
>Renting is a scam, yes, but I think owning is an even bigger scam.
Present your argument in a few points, nigger.

>>24315645
Renting vs owning matters more when you make/have less money. That's a big part of it.

>>24315645
I'd rather take the mortgage Jew over the rent Jew, because at least the former promises an end and offers an outstretched hand to become the latter.

>>24317519
That's the big thing. If you know your small part of a town is going to be stable until you die, buying is wonderful. But we don't have that anymore. At any point and time your commercial zoned area can turn into a residential for section 8 housing and, well, there goes the whole town. Shit happens fast too these days.

>>24317060
holy shit this is the fucking truth though

>>24317627

Yep, picking the right place for real estate is much like picking the right individual stock. If you're good, you're going to make a killing, but if you screw up, RIP. Obviously the person who bought a house in San Francisco 30 years ago is doing better than they would have if they had bought the S&P 500. But a person who bought a house in a midwestern city? Probably not -- most likely they paid a huge opportunity cost by buying.

This is what a lot of people miss about real estate, I think. Yeah, in general, "number go up," but if you're not in a prime location, number go up much faster if you're in SPY. (And for the next two decades I think Bitcoin will vastly outperform every other asset class anyway, but that's another discussion.)

>>24317519
if you were married and had kids, the story would have been different.

>>24317060
nope, why pay a down payment and commit to a huge loan when you could be paying that towards a better return in the market. even if you have cash upfront, why do it? why spend 200-500k on a home when you could double that in crypto if you are smart? you're probably a boomer desu.

>>24315899
Checked and my parents literally did the same thing. Realtor jews rushed them into the sale because "winter time is bad for markets". In true boomer fashion they bought the 2008 top and sold the 2019 dip, had they waited just 3 months they could had sold at all time highs, of ALL TIME...

>>24318018
You make it sound like once you get the loan you're locked in forever.
I could sell my house right now for about 20% profit and the mortgage would be gone.

>>24316124

This guy gets it.

>>24317188
He's saying bullshit because you're a lying cunt.

>>24317060

Indeed it is.

>>24318096
Let's say you bought a place in Japan in the 90s.
You waited 3 decades and its still worth LESS than when you bought it. Not to mention you paid 60% of the home's init value in interest over those years. Of course you're not locked in, but RE can't just go up forever. To unlock you might have to sell at a huge loss.

>>24318327
There are actually some people who buy a house to live in it and don't care about what it can sell for 30 years from now.

>>24315899
So it was still better than renting

>>24318327
Now show major cities in Japan.

>>24315645
>bros why are people not okay with being homeless?

>>24318018
>nope, why pay a down payment and commit to a huge loan when you could be paying that towards a better return in the market.
>just rent dude
Enjoy being a nigger. I will use crypto to become a landlord aristocrat and collect 60K per year for doing basically nothing. Engineers and accountants will pay me money to cower in my presence and obey my every order.

>>24315851
Mega retard alert. Rent fag cuck

>>24318192
Low IQ detected.

>>24318354
Sometimes freedom is more important than profit. Free king VS rich serf.

>>24318327
>Lets say you did this extremely specific example which fits my narrative, despite missing the point that you get to build equity and LIVE IN the property during and even after the mortgage itself.
Lets say you bought a stock or an index fund that hindsight shows is a bad investment. Boy, haha, that must mean all stocks are bad, amirite?

>>24318524
Confirmed lying faggot.

>>24316700
Nigger btc went 300% this year alone for me. Cry harder mortgage bitch.

I wonder what futuristic advances will solve the BASIC SHELTER problem. The only things I can think of involve living in the sky, some kind of way to suspend a structure way up in the sky where nobody will bother you and, even further, when personal space travel happens you could go out and claim any rock orbiting the Earth as your home.

>>24318596
Because pandemics happen all the time.
It went 300% for everyone you dumb fuck. If you weren't buying btc in march when it was sub6000 you were a fucking idiot.

>>24318596
are you going to live in your btc?

owning a house is freedom. no mortgage, buy cash.

If there were no mortgages to begin with and people had to buy houses outright, we wouldn't be having this mess. The system is setup to make you fail. Buying a home with leverage is no different to gambling on bitmex. In the long run, you WILL lose if you keep doing it.

>mortgage
>mort-gage
>tfw you realize mortgage literally means death pact in latin

>>24318747
Except who would be able to afford a home? I get a lot of us, myself included, have 6-7figure investment funds.
The average asshole has 500 in a savings account for 'a rainy day' while they slowly max credit cards out.

>>24315645
Pajeet here, it’s a mentality thing here.
Usually renting is looked down upon and the first thing you are asked if you’re a guy looking to marry is if you have a home, then a job, then other shit.

>>24318546more like a free peasant, most of them are struggling to accumulate wealth with all the expenses homeowners need to keep up with, but I suppose that’s better than being a rent cuck

>>24318801
based street shitters

>>24315645
Because their lives are so fucking empty getting into lifetime debt gives them feelings of achievement they never experienced before

>>24318763
one reason house prices are so much higher than avg salary is due to fucking leverage. If fucking boomers didnt all fall for the 5% downpayment to buy a house scam, property prices would have never reached this fucking high. Idiots were so dumb that they thought:
>only 5% downpayment to buy a house ?
>sign me durrrrr
> muh consooming go up now

>>24315645
Historically most of the millionaires in the US made most of their money buying a home.

History tends to repeat.

>>24318669
1 BTC can already buy a home in a lot of countries. In a few years it could buy multiple homes while your home just depreciates and you still owe property taxes, insurance and maintainance. I am in the maloney stage of being in (digital) gold waiting until I can buy multiple homes with it outright. You have a mortgage and are cucked by property taxes like a proper burger.

>>24318878
that's because there was a population boom faggot. Without more people coming in, the ponzi can't keep going up

>>24316420
You are wrong, the game is rigged on all sides these days. The taxrape will set renting and owning even. The only thing owning is preferable for is, if you try to build generational wealth.

>>24318894
i own my home outright. i rent the basement for 800 a month.

i don't give a shit how much its worth oi live here

>>24318910
don't worry anon, there's more coming

>>24315645
Because people are conditioned to accept debt. Chains of gold are still chains. Get a college education subsidized by banks, get an auto loan, get a mortgage, get some dependents so you're stuck cucking for the system.

Land ownership is where it's at. I own a chunk of land in southern IL and all I have to worry about is property tax. Working towards going off the grid.

>>24318747
>If there were no mortgages to begin with and people had to buy houses outright, we wouldn't be having this mess.
Agreed. Right now, people are charging others rent with 5% ownership, 95% bank ownership

You're allowed to go 20x long on becoming a landlord over others

Cause housing market is the future. Housing to trillion dollars soon.

>>24318596
btc is up 100% since january, try again
also, if you put your entire net worth in crypto youre a massive retard
>mortgage
nope.

>>24318801
>Pajeet here
why the fuck would you admit that??? Even as an anon.

>>24316911 yeah it's only twenty minutes

>>24315851
Buy income property an pay yourself rent, faggot

>>24319034
So I can give a perspective from different culture?

>>24318999
based truth trips. All it takes is one little drop and all the new millenial & zoomer 'homeowners' are down 100%+ percent on their 'investment'

>>24315645
Forced savings
Cheaper than renting
If u sell for a profit, 250k tax free
Option to rent
Tax breaks
cant be kicked out easily
Learn to be a man and fix shit
Hedge against inflation
Leverage

I bought a flat from my link gains just to have a flat. I mean, people spend almost the same amount of money on cars than what my flat cost, why not treat myself to a nice flat? Chicks digg property owners, didnt u know?

>>24318747
Die with a mortgage and pay with your soul. Dam the Jews really did it

>>24318863
Fair assessment. If nobody could afford a house then nobody would sell them for that much.
I just think we're missing something here.

This thread is peak retard. All you need to do is ask yourself “what do very wealthy people do?”

Renting is EV-. Owning is EV+. It’s mathematical, objective, and historical. Yes, there are some caveats. But overall owning a home means that every month when you hit that big fat “Pay $2000” button, you’re actually paying off your OWN mortgage and building equity that you will get back, as long as you didn’t choose a shitty location.

The fed printed 20% of all USD this year. Everything will inflate. Imagine advocating for paying a superior males mortgage instead of your own. End this thread.

>>24315851
because a mortage costs less than rent, and if you get to retirement you're either in a house you own, with no rent/mortgage, or still forking out rent every month, after having spent enough two buy two houses over the course of your life
Unless you're living in your car or whatever, renting has absolutely no advantages.

>>24315899
even the worst timing possible in the last decades beats renting

>>24315851
>property taxes aren't built in rent prices
whatever the cost of ownership are, they are paid by renters. I rent out an appartment for 1200€ a month which covers 800€ mortgege+80€ building manegment+150 property tax. The 150 kept aside, I jsut dip in it when I need whatever maintenance. Why would landlord pay themselves? have you never noticed rent prices are pretty similar in a given are? Never thought that maybe it's linked to the cost of property and capital?

>>24319058
based poojeet that's not shilling for once

>>24317060
Owning is the new renting. What the fuck does it matter if its "property tax" or rent if I still have to pay monthly for it anyway? May as well choose the option that doesn't require a down payment. This world is a fuck

>>24319485
I dunno where tf you live but my property tax is like $350 a month. Where can you rent a 2400 sqfoot place with 3 bedrooms for that little?

>>24319352
>Renting is EV-. Owning is EV+
In a vacuum, yes, but this doesn't factor in the value of mobility (variable by individual, but worth over $100k+ PER YEAR on the high end) and perhaps other factors . You can also rent things like rooms, but you can't buy just a room.

Additionally, some people are so rich that they can easily afford to pay a "superior" to handle all maintenance and details of the property.

>>24319512
What’s your point? Mobility is a subjective value for most people. I don’t place a high value on it. I rent now but I am building a house. My landlord tried to kick me out this summer. Why would I want that over owning a house? Kicking out a home owner even if they owe money is wayyy harder than kicking out a renter.

>>24319582
My point is that your point isn't always true, even if true for most

It's an important distinction

>>24319582
In your example, you seem to highly value not getting kicked out, so ya you should probably buy. Meanwhile, moving isn't a huge issue for me.

In fact, I've been moving around increasing my salary for a bit now, so I'm more likely to be moving by my choice than getting kicked out.. 60k ->90k -> 120k -> 170k since 2016. That 110k difference is on a per year basis and blows own vs rent out of the water

>>24318669
Homes aren’t freedom. Your wealth is literally tied to the future of local/state/national government. USA is increasingly becoming more socialist and they will raise your taxes and impose mandatory section 8 neighbors on you. I’d rather keep my wealth liquid so I can fuck off to the Caribbean and SA.

>>24318878
I’d rather own 1 million dollars of SPY than a 1 million dollar house.

>>24315899
Checked, parents did the same shit

>>24315995
I dont think he said
"pic related is LITERALLY the 1950s"
are you retarded?

>>24318999
>Agreed. Right now, people are charging others rent with 5% ownership, 95% bank ownership
>You're allowed to go 20x long on becoming a landlord over others
where can i read more about this absurd phenomenon? what is it called?

Because historically it's been the biggest factor in accumulating wealth in every single nation.
The first step to accumulate generational wealth is having your own property.
Recently there was a study conducted in Australia, wealthy nation with a high average income, the biggest factor in incremental generational wealth was homeownership and at what age they switched from renting to paying for their own place.

T. Sociologist
Lots or info on the subject out there.
Tl;Dr if you are renting inflation is destroying you while you're also cucking yourself out of meaningful financial leverage in today's financial system.

T. Sociologist.

>>24317167
Very good video anon thank you

>>24320352
What about the people who rent well below their means and use the difference to invest in crypto and stock market? My rent is $440/month and a house with a mortgage payment that price would be a literal methshed. If you are paying the same monthly amount rent vs ownership then ownership will win 90% of the time. But instead I’m spending the absolute lowest amount I can on housing so I can accumulate as much crypto and stocks as I can in my 20s.

>indebt yourself to a bank for 30 years
>either have to make 25% down payment or pay PMI
>negro or mexican family moving next to you will lower your home value by tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands
>dont get any equity for the first 10 years because of amortization
>pay 6% for brokers fees if you want to sell
Renting has its own set of negatives too but the whole boomer mentality around buying homes is dumb. There is always cost of living. Dont try to make it an investment.

>>24317295
Did you do your whole house's price plus interest as the initial investment or just the downpayment?

>>24317167

a bit long but based. BTFO all the copers in this thread.

>>24320314
rentvesting is what it is called

>>24317167
free my nigga Shkreli

>>24319504
>rentvesting
In Ozzy:
>Council rates" is a municipal tax levied by local government. This is assessed each year on a property's value. Council rates are around $1300 per annum for an average Australian household.
Objectively drastically cheaper than rent.

people still think a house is an asset. It's a financial literacy thing.

imagine not being a landlord

>>24317107
Absolute bullshit, what city. Send me a link to one of these places