/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>23952638
Bump for answers

the money does flow to mainstreet. mainstreet then puts into thier favorite ponzi scheme known as the stock market

Monetary side inflation is driven by devaluation of the USD through printing hence the rise in real estate, gold, btc, etc. Conversely, the real economy is in its own realm since, firstly, a large portion of monetary stimulus never even hits mainstream, and secondly, traditional inflation (think economy heating up supply+demand etc) is nonexistent and has been for over a decade now because this countries economy is basically dead after 2007. Not to mention government subsidies and globalism (manufacturing made cheaper) offsetting the price of common goods. So in the end you have the main street economy stable while the money supply inflates and creates asset bubbles. Our tomatoes and cucumbers stay "the same" but really were getting poorer by the year to the tune of however much the fed is printing.

>medical costs

medical has a cartel on regulation. No you cant be your own doctor, they created a law that says you can't. even know 90% of doctor visit the person knows exactly what is wrong with themselves by googling before they go

>>23952782
>devaluation of the USD
ahhh i get it. so it looks like things are getting more expensive, but the dollar is actually just becoming increasingly worthless.

>>23952638
Food prices have gone up 25-50% in the past year where I live.

>The Bank now has increased reserves to lend against (they can lend out more money)
The banks have a zero reserve requirement. They can lend out infinite money with no reserves now.
>https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm

>>23952782
also, what indicators/"numbers" are used to assess the increasing worthlessness of the dollar and therefore appraise prices at their new "higher" dollar values? (if you know)

>>23952852
If that's true, then why do they even tighten lending standards? Is it to force the FED to be a QEcuck eternally?

this whole thing is just a house of cards it seems

just zoom out and look at it from a country level. anything that must be imported or is subject of foreign investors goes up.

>>23952915
what is imported into the usa? i only consume american products

>>23952638
because none of the money of QE go into circulation, they simply buy bonds to pump their value and lower their interest rates.

its just like how you can use BTC to pump shitcoins and the total market cap of crypto goes up even though you have the exact same crypto in circulation and no real dollars were spent

>>23952873
>realizes it's a house of cards
New around here huh?

>>23952854
There is no one number. In the current system everything is floating against everything else, however some things have more 'inertia' than other. It is generally true to say that the rise in gold prices (for example) is measuring the loss of purchasing power of fiats, but the value of gold does also fluctuate against other tangible assets.

>>23953127
s-so do you know why gold isn't exploding in price??

>>23952994
>because none of the money of QE go into circulation, they simply buy bonds to pump their value and lower their interest rates.

bond market and stock market are a 100 trillion dollar ponzi scheme. that keeps the money off mainstreet. hyperinflation hits once those ponzi schemes come to a end and people switch from a dollar reserve currency to BTC

>>23953155
because central banks arent buying more gold than usual

>>23953155
gold is the canary in the coalmine, so much is done behind the scenes to keep the price down - gold always defeats currency printing in the end though. every time through history.

another answer is that we have been in a secular bear market within the main PM bull market that started in 2000, but it's done with now and we're starting the final leg of the bull market now - dollar may not survive this time. the chart of this bull market is almost identical to the one from the 70s/80s, but playing out over a longer timescale, and several times bigger in magnitude

>>23952847
And portions keep getting smaller

>>23952638
Look up Michael Saylor's recent interviews about Bitcoin and why he put all of his companies half a billion treasury in it.

True inflation is 7% on a good year (google the Burrito Index). With the Fed currently targeting twice that, we will see 10-15% inflation. People aren't financially educated and the Fed never posts true inflation numbers. They release CPI numbers that are a carefully selected grouping of assets that don't inflate by design. Technology is deflationary (see Jeff Booth).

>That being said, why are the only things showing evidence of inflation

Importantly, these are the things that matter. As Saylor mentions, the most important thing you can buy is an annuity stream (retirement). Through inflation, the cost of retirement has become unaffordable. The Fed doesn't track these types of things for good reason. If more people knew what true inflation was, it would be a risk to the current system of the fiat system where the Fed can print more money.

Another important aspect is that things change over time. The boomer generation had cheap real estate, equities and bonds they could invest in and build a retirement with. The current generations can no longer invest in bonds, equity prices have skyrocketed, real estate has exploded, etc.

That's why things like UBI are legitimately on the table now, not for political reasons but because the system has become unsustainable.

>>23953244
yea but it doesn't seem like this is going to happen unless the rest of the world dumps the dollar
>>23953256
sauce?
>>23953341
ok ill check it out ty

If you wanna know real inflation just look at the cost of a mcdouble at mcdonalds.

>10 years ago: $1.56CAD after tax
>Today: $2.56CAD before tax

>>23953378
I also suggest RealVision, they have hundreds of interviews with hedge fund guys and experts in their respective fields.

Taxation isn't theft, you need public goods. Inflation is theft.

>>23952638
because we are not eating or driving more. we are eating and driving the same amount as before. what we do with our extra printed dollars is buy stocks and real estate.

>>23953155
because gold is shit that nobody takes seriously

>>23952638
Because everyones throwing it into stocks and usd is world reserve. The moment everyone goes "no thx we're using china currency" i mean be real theyre clearly gonna take over the world. At that point this the usd goes zimbabwe tier.

>>23953710
>China
See Peter Zeihan. The talking point where China is taking over the world is hugely ironic. They are doomed and will see huge population "corrections".

Deflationary aspects of the economy such as;

1. Immigration. A greater labour pool willing to work at shit tier wages.

2. Outsourcing. The cost of production in another country means that profit margins for large companies remain fat.

3. America's currency is the world reserve currency. Basically, America is going to issue dollars like it's candy until such time as another country confronts it militarily or economically.

Britain did the same thing. All of the interwar years in the 1920s and 1930s was Britain coasting of it's de facto position of the reserve currency of the Pound. The house of cards came collapsing down in WW2 and it's never been a sovereign country since then.

>>23953412
you're missing an important factor here which is production costs actually getting cheaper thanks to more chemistry and economies of scale
When you factor that as well, the cost is actually much higher. In other words if the current mcdonalds was given the facilities and technology of 10 years ago, making the exact same product that they were making back then but selling it in 2020, they'd probably go bankrupt unless they sold it at more than $4. Technology has a deflationary effect on prices which is why everything around us still hasn't blown out of proportions to the point that it's unaffordable to the majority of people. To prevent this effect the companies simply use technology to downgrade the product and keep its price down. Real estate is affected by this specifically. Have you ever wonder why exactly are all new houses built out of unreliable trash with unreliable techniques? And even then they're unaffordable again.

>>23953739

China is in a position similar to the USA in the late 19th and early 20th century.

The USA is like the British Empire. Hell, it could be argued that it's a continuation of the British Empire given it's territorial responsibilities.

The misguided gooks in Hong Kong weren't flying the Union Jack after all. It was the ol' stars and stripes.

>thinks Fed is an acronym
Didn't read. Retard opinion discarded

Consooomer products need to stay low so people don't notice that actual assets continue to skyrocket.

>>23953853

Consooomer products are actually VERY high. There's a lot of profit in an iPhone or BEATS by Dr Dre or any other assorted shit.

The Chinks figured this out and were busting into this market with Huawei's flagship models. I have an older one, it's fantastic.

>>23953813
based retard

>>23952638
first come first serve at the soup kitchen -- those closets to feeding table - institutional managers bankers executives - > middle manager -> serf labors
We Neo-Feudal now
The King (Gov.) mints coin and gives it the nobles (Banks) and you're basically asking why the serf (Normies) are getting more porridge... the serfs need essential goods and services. The Nobles keep a lot of coin to themselves, lend some to the Kings, buy all kinds of real estates, and invest in all kinds of joint company ventures.

>>23952638

It does though.

>iPhone used to cost $650 now it’s $1200
>Xbox used to be $400 in 2005 now it’s $500.
>$200 graphics card used to be mid range now it’s low range.
>ammunition now 4x as much as in the early 2000’s
>average new car price now 30k+ used to be $20k
>burrito at fast casual used to be $6 now it’s $8-9
>Starbucks coffee used to be $2 for a venti now it’s over $3

>>23952767
well technically money does not go to stonk market. there is value and price, price may go up. if you buy stonk, the seller receives the
money now, you just switching money from seller to a new buyer. despite bid going up stonk market does not magically suck money in

>>23953774
very interesting about Britain
>>23953782
ahh yess very interesting as well...the houses yes...
>>23953925
the huawei phone is actually good? i might buy one. I want that mi mix alpha. Id just whip it out in ambient lit clubs and the stinky chink qts would swarm my BWC

The US corporation is bankrupt and Trump is managing the bankruptcy. All this QE is cover for something else. The FED started buying real estate after 2008 and currently has about 1 trillion worth of land in the US alone.

tldr; its all fake and gay

>>23952854
A commodity like gold that is universally considered valuable in its own right is a good measure (not industrial ups and downs) . And yes against gold the dollar has steadily been declining.

>>23954148
Exactly this, inflation is hitting Main Street and it’s not really a secret people are posting receipts of items they bought in 2015 to today and showing a massive uptrend in price. Fact is this, the fed has two options:
Either let the deflationary spiral take place and allow for “nature to run its course” and possibly save this zombie economy from becoming the Weimar Republic
2: allow the economy to become the Weimar Republic at which point the deflation will hit anyways because the fed is reactionary not anticipatory

>>23953155
Because everybody has their money in the stock market pretending it will go up forever.

>>23954222

>the huawei phone is actually good?

Yeah they have massive batteries compared to the competition. Mine is the Mate 9, which is pretty old now.

I figure the CIAniggers are going to spy on me so I might as well let the chinky winkies do it instead.

After all, who has heard of the Chinese CIA? Nobody. That means they are more discreet.

>>23952638
Stock price appreciation is not inflation. If the Fed gives you $420 to buy Tsla, you are buying it from another shareholder.. He ends up with the $420in Fed bucks and you end up with 1 share.

The fact you purchased Tsla off someone does not increase the $$ in Tsla. There is no $$ in Tsla, it's shares. You just made the older shareholder richer in cash.

All this $$ circulating in trades is allowing hedge funds to de-risk and load up on cash & value stocks. Even some big $$ benchmark free mutual funds (see GMO Benchmark Free or PIMCO All Asset All Authority) are rotating into cash and value stocks.

This cash is not circulating in the economy. Only way to get inflation now is raise wages or corporate taxes, which might happen if Democrat party can pass a minimum wage hike.

>>23954529
Ps.. I'm not saying these hedge funds are setting an example. Their job is to convince their clients they are protecting their wealth, so that they can keep collecting their commissions.

>>23954529

>If the Fed gives you $420 to buy Tsla, you are buying it from another shareholder.. He ends up with the $420in Fed bucks and you end up with 1 share.
>The fact you purchased Tsla off someone does not increase the $$ in Tsla.

Increasing the amount of money that is able to buy stocks absolutely has an impact on individual stock price. Especially when that company decides to take out loans to buy back more of their own stock.

>>23952638
Deflation > inflation
Also money velocity. My guess is the debt is growing fast than money supply. So they monetized the debt and think they can print money, but even as they’re printing debt, deflation is still occurring as a faster rate kind of like we are in so much debt that any money we get is used to pay off debt. Imagine karen has 200,000 student loans, 300k mortgage, 40k car loan, 20k credit debt. She makes 50k. Even if the government gave her an extra 1k it wouldn’t do anything for her because her debt is so massive compared to her income. Even if she applied the entire 1k to her credit card debt, it wouldn’t do much.

>>23954657
Oh and don’t forget mandatory taxes like Obamacare and property taxes and income tax which eat up 50%. So even with ubi of 1k it wouldn’t do much. Better than nothing I guess

>>23952854
Everything is distorted, you can't really tell anymore. Gold and real estate are as well since foreign investors are buying them up to launder money from their native shitholes. Just hold stores of value. Just look at USD purchasing power over time, these trends will NOT reverse, in fact they will accelerate, this year the fed printed more than ever before. We are headed for another government wide monetary crisis. After the covid smoke clears there will be big problems.

>>23954111
This

>>23952835
Yes you need more of something ($), to pay for something that's worth X amount in inflation.

When the X amount of a good/service stays the same but the number of $ u need changes, that's not because the price of X is changing as much as the number of $ you need changes.

The consumer price index measures how the price of most (but not all) goods change against the dollar. It measures inflation but is also affected by what you can read 5-6 times elsewhere in this thread (PRODUCTION COSTS) and other things...

The rate of inflation is """basically""" the derivative of the CPI graph,

R.O.I. = (CPI (@ time t) - CPI (@ time x)) / CPI (@ time x)

The graph has gone at a straight 45 degree angle since 1975, which means a couple things

you can break down the index by different consumer categories, which I did.

if the cpi value is increasing at a steady pace, that means that its derivative has risen but is not also rising.

>>23952638
it does. look at the price of houses. look at the price of meat in the grocery store. look at the price of fast food. look at the price of any food, really. prices are going up right in front of your eyes. healthcare will soon follow, now that hospitals are posting huge covid-related losses and the benevolent pharma and insurance companies that are offering tests and potential vaccines for (((free))) will want to recover their los---sorry goyim, i mean donations.

>>23954726
this means since 1975, the consumer areas affected by inflation have year of year been steady, and if we look at the actual inflation chart.

>>23954625
Right, it does increase the price of the stock.. but unless companies use it as an opportunity to make more shares it doesn't actually increase the amount of cash the companies have on hand. What I mean to say is this cash isn't generally going "into" the company..the only way to do that is when new shares are issued. This cash is just being traded around. Your $420 becomes someone else's $420. Whomever is left holding the share believes the value of the share is $420. Is it actually worth that much..maybe due to what the Fed has done to interest rates..stocks can trade at a higher than normal valuation and still be competitive against bond expected returns. Given isn't much left for interest rates to drop though, I would say there is a better 5-10 year outlook in low PE stocks right now. The tech company stocks really have zero margin for error.

For the record I have been buying in long this summer into Metlife, Walgreens, British American Tobacco, Phillip Morris, Raytheon, AT&T, Duke Energy..

>>23952638
Do you think assets going up increases the demand for consumer goods? These asset owners already have access to them. Therefore only things that need to be bid up are.

>>23952854
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade-weighted_effective_exchange_rate_index

>>23952638
haven't you noticed movie tickets getting more and more expensive over the last 20 years?

Where on Earth would I put my money in right now? The only answer I can come up with right now is BTC but I don't feel secure holding that as the only asset.

>>23955593
All in on Cigarette companies. 9% dividend, stock will decline about 3% average a year due to loss of demand. Easy 6% return.

>>23955563
uh no? i don't leave my house.

>>23952638
asset prices rise; it's meant to give money to rich people and bail out their investments, although their official reason is to create confidence.

And it does create inflation - rent prices, medical costs, school are all more expensive. But other things have to become cheaper as a result since workers have no bargaining power.

>>23952638
It does, they just use all sorts of tricks to mask it. There's a reason everything just seems shittier. I'll sell you a 12 inch pizza for $5.00. Deal? Good. Now next year I'll sell you an 11.5 inch pizza for $5.50. Deal? Good. On and on it goes until you're in your mid 20s, paying off a degree that certifies you received an education you could have gotten off YouTube for free, living in 500 sqft rented apartment without a dream of responsibly having children while you play a video game with $400 of DLC and an algorithmically generated TV show plays on the background with an all nigger cast. Your 9 inch pizza arrived made from ingredients that will give you colon cancer by your mid 30s, that'll be $8.50.

>>23953774
>Britain did the same thing. All of the interwar years in the 1920s and 1930s was Britain coasting of it's de facto position of the reserve currency of the Pound
This was essentially around the same time Britain left the gold standard to inflate away their WWI debts, and then had a few years of screwing around with fiat until everyone realised the game was up and bailed to the USD, which was gold backed. Everything that is happening now is a consequence of the US leaving the gold standard to inflate and pay for the Vietnam War.

>>23952638
open your eyes. everything is inflated

>>23953412
they made big macs smaller as well

>>23952638
Because they removed everything but food from inflation indexes.
Add assets back and the USA is probably worse in inflation now than in the oil shock.

>>23956665
Yes

Wtfhappenedin1971.com

And fucking boomers removed everything from inflation indexes.

1971 minimum wage is 18 usd of today if you adjust it for real estate inflation

>>23956249
Keynsian economics is civilizational entropy

>>23954625
It does when the fed bought tsla with qe

>>23952638
you are basically asking why inflation (printing) is not translating into price inflation (increases).

The reason is because money velocity (rate of spending) is near zero and has been decreasing since Q3 2019 . Everyone is currently afraid to spend. Once the economy "recovers" all this currency will come out of hiding and then you will see hyperinflation.

Money inflation is now starting to increase, so its only a matter of time before all these stored and excess dollars will start to compete for limited goods and services. That said, gold, silver, and bitcoin would be good choices to put your cash in while you can.

>>23955593
>Where on Earth would I put my money in right now?

Seconding this as I'm 100% cash but not putting it into SPY at what seems like a major top.

>>23954111
This

>>23956736
all while making them cheaper and smaller

>>23956736
Services up, goods down. Food follows the mean.

>>23953804
>Hong Kong weren't flying the Union Jack after all. It was the ol' stars and stripes.
Yeah they were, they flew both

>>23952638
Bullish for DMG and the CIA DMM GLOWIE ecosystem. SEND IT.

>>23953739
>You should invest in the Aztec empire , they had lot's of trade goods , control of their borders, a massive standing army and lot's of vassal states, plus their capital tenochittlan is in the middle of Lake Texcoco making it as impregnable as venice.
>This will lead to great trade relations with the spanish who will monopolize the aztec market.
>t peter zeihan 16th century.

Meanwhile 300 spanish faggots conquered an entire empire and lake texcoco does not even exist anymore as they drained and turned it into mexico city.

Don't get me wron zeihan is smart but everything that happened this year is some kind of rebellion against the usd and the usa financing it's gibsmedats via exporting its inflation.
It's clear the world is tired of this shit , china keeps doing swaps , and trade treaties , and as they are now the major trade partner of everyone they can pull a bretton woods if they can.

The usa will still has a bright future , but don't assume the rest of the world can't tell the usa to fuck off, i find it funny when americans post aircraft carriers pics when you mention this shit , meanwhile china is forcing the yuan in more and more countries.
Here in Argentina the government literally banned the purchase of usds for citzens and encouraged the purchase of yuans for savings lmao.
Did the usa did anything?Nah , they just keep increasing kyc / aml regulations in their financial system like a bunch of fucking retards shuting themselves in the foot.

And bidden neolib gang won't change shit they will probably try to do trade treaties but all asia went with china already and europe is about to go to hell due to demographics.

>>23957698
what are schiff and berneke doing together?

>>23957754
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dh_UU4KtU4

>>23957698
The Aztecs and the Spanish isn't even remotely a serious analogy to the US and China if you understand history. In fact it doesn't take a lot of study to understand. The Aztecs were a primitive people.

Check out Guns, Germs and Steel if you haven't, the story behind Moctezuma's capture is fascinating.

I don't think you comprehend just how poor China is relative to the US. There is a wealth gap in the US, but it would be a strenuous effort for a first world citizen to fathom just how little the average Chinese person makes, and these are the cyclical good years - they're due for a bust. And the CCP must consolidate power to keep the country from completely disintegrating. They have every metric going against them.

>>23957860
Primitive or not 300 spanish conquered an empire.

I find it funny when zeihan underestimates china like ayyyy lmaoo their demographics are fucked their lands are bad they are fucked.
Many countries like israel had worse odds in their history and through leadership and balls survived.

China demographics are bad but way better than europe and if europe extended the cycle so much china probably can even longer due to being the only country that used the 49 years of fiat system to invest in real stuff like dams or nuclear power plants.

>I don't think you comprehend just how poor China is relative to the US

Still higher gdp per capita than all latin american nations not to mention that to maintain their industry they demand an absurd ammount of good worldwide which means they have everyone by the balls.

>they're due for a bust

On this i agree , but so is most of the world , the usa is already having a radicalization of politics due to asset inflation and europe has economies like italy with gdps back to 1999 thanks to keynsianism.

>And the CCP must consolidate power to keep the country from completely disintegrating

Yes which is why they will pull some type of bretton woods to gain momentum, the brics and international trade and even the fucking loans are a way to consolidate a path to this once everyone owns or depends on them they can enforce a reserve currency.

>They have every metric going against them.

So has europe, the uk , canada, and half of latin america.
The usa is in good standing yes but underestimating china leads to retarded arguments like muh who will protect trade routes when companies had to hire mercenaries in the "pax americana" to go through the suez canal which is closed for sailboats since more than 15 years ago due to them being randomly shot in the way to the indian ocean.

>>23952638
subsidies and hoarding of money.

>>23953155
paper gold being sold in massive quantities.

1) Other nations buy our excess bank credit USD (((fake usd))) due to being reserve currency
2) it does hit “Main Street” in indirectly through increased prices of assets
3) Bankers get first dibs of through overnight credit repo market
4) Main Street gets some crumbs and invests in stocks etc
5) certain industries get subsidized thereby increasing their revenue

The whole thing is a complicated web of weaponized Talmudism

You need to understand that 90% of the GDP occurs in fake bank credit money which is debt based.

Our money is backed by debt. This answers a lot of your questions.

>>23958151
>and hoarding of money.

You wish it's much much worse , it's the endgame of keynsianism inflation which was hidden like real estate inflation went up non stop since bretton woods to aburd levels.
People went from being able to buy a house on 8 months of minimum wage, to buy it in two years of minimum wage , to 15 years mortgages , to 30 years mortgages and to the neofeudal shithole we have now since 2008.

And rents as part of income has also been going up since 2008 people used to spend 15% to 20% on rents now it's more than half in most cases.
No one is buying shit because everyone is broken by this retarded economic stimulus policy, deflation would unironically be a stimulus as people have to sell assets and young people move to buy them thus no longer being broke spending so much on rent.

Keynsian monetary policy always had diminishing returns now they are only negative lmao.

>>23952638
The only economy I'm worried about is the Glitch economy.

>>23958018
>Primitive or not 300 spanish conquered an empire.

That's not a good enough argument. The optics aren't that black and white. An army from this decade could overrun an army from a few decades ago effortlessly. You don't see Samurai these days either.

Could China pull something out of their ass? Sure, that doesn't negate facts.
China will have to pull something out of their ass because their geography and demography ARE fucked, and especially now. I'd have to look at demographics to see where they stand relative to Europe, but last I checked they were worse maybe aside from Germany.

>Still higher gdp per capita than all latin american nations not to mention that to maintain their industry they demand an absurd ammount of good worldwide which means they have everyone by the balls.

They import everything. The US is now leaving that system. It's "Made in Mexico" for Americans now. I'm not sure how that's an economic boon. They need to find a huge influx of trade.

>Yes which is why they will pull some type of bretton woods to gain momentum, the brics and international trade and even the fucking loans are a way to consolidate a path to this once everyone owns or depends on them they can enforce a reserve currency.

Remember last time they allowed open trade was when they had a massive capital flight out of the country. You think US inflation and monetary fuckery is bad? It gets worse.

>So has europe, the uk , canada, and half of latin america.

The point is they will be amongst the greatest losers. Venezuela should be worse. I'm open to new facts, but we've been hearing that China is going to eat up the world for a while now and it's completely ridiculous and borderline insulting. I'm not some flag waving xenophobe - I only care about the facts.

>>23958210
based and Hazlitt-pilled

>>23958239
>That's not a good enough argument. The optics aren't that black and white. An army from this decade could overrun an army from a few decades ago effortlessly. You don't see Samurai these days either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Isandlwana

We are talking about insane odds there were very little spanish , only 300 and with a rogue commander i may add.

>I'd have to look at demographics to see where they stand relative to Europe, but last I checked they were worse maybe aside from Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age

They are better than the usa regarding age but they fucked up hard with the one child policy so there won't be a slow ageing after a certain point shit will go to hell.

>They import everything. The US is now leaving that system

Yes but the usa does not want to leave the reserve currency hence the hostility against bitcoin in 2019 when it went up.
The usa is in a bizarre position it wants to be anti globalization but starves the world of the currency used around the world and makes it's financial system orwellian as fuck with kyc / aml, this causes deflationary pressures in the usa and pushes countries to join an anti usa coalition.
This lockdown shit glowed in the dark hard it was literally to bring trump down and force a usd devaluation.
This is clownish when the world works by bullying the nation that has the reserve currency to devaluate.

>It's "Made in Mexico" for Americans now. I'm not sure how that's an economic boon

This one is true and it's hillarious mexico commie president from the foro of sao paulo sucked trump cock and refused to congratulate bidden.
Because trump means a strong dollar and lot's of us demand for imports , while bidden means a weak dollar and less demand for mexican goods.
But it will be a great relation long term im sure.

>>23952734
Government interference and something like liquidity preference/decreasing marginal returns

>>23958239

>You think US inflation and monetary fuckery is bad? It gets worse.

Tell me about it here in Argentina lmao, but the thing is that when the usd devaluates so does the rest of the world to keep the paritiy to the usd.
Ever since the world left bretton woods and went due to it to a unique in history total fiat standard all currencies are devaluating to 0.

The usd eur rate can be the same for a decade but relative to things with low supply like real estate both went down in price(and now that bitcoin has lower inflation than fiat relative to bitcoin).
Hence why davos glohobomo want to ban house ownership & crypto , both make a great thermometer of the plebian enslavement by fiat currency.

>Venezuela should be worse

Venezuela is hell and will become worse , here in Argentina we are full of venezuelan refugees and they keep coming despite or minimum wage moving below haiti levels due to foro of sao paulo keynsian retardation.

>but we've been hearing that China is going to eat up the world for a while now and it's completely ridiculous and borderline insulting.

it's propaganda , something the usa should had never stoped doing at the end of the cold war.
The eu is doing hell even the germans are investing a lot in dw expanding now to do propaganda.
The chinese meme is a meme yes but they invested hard in infrastructure while the west used 49 years of fiat currency to expand gibs and create an age of decadency.

>I'm not some flag waving xenophobe - I only care about the facts.

I know anon never said that.

>>23958414
>but they invested hard in infrastructure
Nice meme. It's a half truth and this is all going to end up being rot. Please God, let us kill feudalism.

>>23958457
You wish it was a half truth, ever since the end of bretton woods the west has not build shit , maybe a few dams in latin america if you want to consider us part of the west and financed by the world bank & imf , before they forgot their mission and went to give loans according to globohomo agendas.

Nuclear power plans?The west has been destroying them not building them , china is building them like there is no tomorrow.
Same for dams in the west ,the boomers destroyed a lot of them and massive ones like the Rampart Dam cancelled , only itaipu , yacyreta and another one in brasil built.

The west is in a terrible position now , deindustrialized , with an ageing population a population that thinks working the land is beneath them while working in a service economy that does not even allows them to buy a wagecuck and is a circular economy that services other parts of the service economy.

85% of the western economy stoped during the quarantines and nobody gave a single shit, but when the virus was moving to china the entire world gave a shit , and literally went to steal the supplies on each other knowing the factory of the world was hit by a virus, to the absurd level that fucking governments went to confiscate ebay sellers lmao.

>>23952638
The Fed can keep lending money out to Banks, but if Banks think there is too much risk out there, they will not lend any money, especially at these interest rates. Inflation stays at 0%.

Because interest rates are so low, Banks are having a hard time finding qualified borrowers because again, banks do not want their loans to default.

The asset bubble is a consequence of lower interest rates. Every time interest rates fall, credit becomes cheaper, and large investment institutions take that opportunity to borrow money at lower interest rates and buy stocks on leverage.

The reason why different goods have different levels of inflation is due to how these goods are purchased. Food, gasoline, and other basic necessities do not see rampant inflation because no one borrows money to buy these items. College education, housing and health care have (((credit markets/insurance))) which means buyers have to borrow money in order to afford these goods. As interest rates (borrowing costs) drop, the price of these goods increases substantially. Couple that with the demand for these goods, and you will see unusual levels of inflation. Eventually you get to a point where the real value of these goods are MUCH LESS than what people are willing to borrow at, because it turns out that money is worth MUCH MORE than those goods.

Health insurance is unusual because what you're really buying is a PUT option on your own health. The cost of the option is the monthly premium you pay in order to have the ability to exercise the right to receive healthcare. On the other side of the PUT option, you have the insurer who has the obligation to provide payment for your treatment.

>>23953155
Central banks are dumping gold for dollars right now.

what's the endgame? war?

>>23957066
>>23958181
>>23958197
word
>>23958414
*drags cigarette sharply*
*Shows teeth*
so uh, what's the situation with venezuelan hookers down there
*exhales through nose and teeth*

>>23958647
>Because interest rates are so low, Banks are having a hard time finding qualified borrowers because again, banks do not want their loans to default.

They can't find borrowers because there is little things to invest and there is little things to invest because keynsians destroyed society.
Secular stagnation is keynsian bullshitese for "we destroyed the capital accumulation process with progresive taxation and destroyed demographics due to real estate asset bubbles" so there won't be growth anymore due to ehhhh secular stagnation.

You may think i am joking but keynsians , fascists and marxists constantly fall in this type of circular thinking, like lacking oil and invading russia to get oil but not being able to reach the caucasus because you lacked oil the first place.

Many such cases.

>>23958713
High end Hookers are unironically getting 25-30 usd per hour due to keynsians inflating our currency to muh stimulate economy.

Of course that didn't work due to hyperinflating and losing 250% of the peso value relative to the usd in a year, so we lost 3.7 million jobs + 450k jobs already lost with the previous social democrat cuck government.

Ain't keynsianism great?

>>23958647
>The reason why different goods have different levels of inflation is due to how these goods are purchased. Food, gasoline, and other basic necessities do not see rampant inflation because no one borrows money to buy these items.
mmk makes sense
>College education, housing and health care have (((credit markets/insurance))) which means buyers have to borrow money in order to afford these goods.
mmhhmmm...
>As interest rates (borrowing costs) drop, the price of these goods increases substantially
is that to compensate for the low interest rate? (since the banks/lenders aren't getting a high rate of return via the interest rate)
>Couple that with the demand for these goods, and you will see unusual levels of inflation.
mmmk
>Eventually you get to a point where the real value of these goods are MUCH LESS than what people are willing to borrow at, because it turns out that money is worth MUCH MORE
and then what happens?

>>23958752
*takes another drag and twirls cigarette between fingers*
25-30usd you say....might have to take a trip

>>23958806
hahahahaha here is the better thing, we have two exchange rates due to keynsian retardation.

So if you use bitcoin to get your foreign income into the country you duplicate it.

Check this

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=bitcoin+argentina+peso

Then look at the real bitcoin price to sell your bitcoins

https://localcryptos.com/Bitcoin/Argentina/Sell

This place is a crypto paradise for cryptochads with foreign income.

Right now you have wage deflation but at the same time goods and housing price inflation. (or bi-flation)
Has been like this since the late 2000's but I don't think it will continue. Commercial real estate loans will start to default en masse in the next few months.

>>23958965

So it the housing market going to crash or skyrocket to infinity prices?

>>23958362
>We are talking about insane odds there were very little spanish , only 300 and with a rogue commander i may add.

I know, that's my point. China being the Spanish, and the US being the Aztecs make no sense. You can't just throw in a random defeat. If anything the US would be the Spanish in your analogy. Whatever, doesn't matter.

As far as the reserve currency. The US is less interested than you think. We have less and less reason to be economically benefited via this system. CBDC's are coming - this means a new toolbox and the advent of hands on behavioral economics. You don't need conspiracy theories - this is actually happening and has much greater implications.

There's no world conspiracy to get rid of Trump. Fuck off with that. And Biden or Trump means QE and dollar devaluation. Maybe a little more under Biden but they have to do it and the economy is addicted to inflation.

Bretton Woods made the dollar the reserve currency, but it's not like other countries haven't tried to get off it. It's as much from Bretton Woods as it is from the simple fact that everyone else's currency is even worse.

>>23959045

Commercial may crash soon. Single family residences are very location specific, but I think those will hold up in price better.

>>23959128
>As far as the reserve currency. The US is less interested than you think. We have less and less reason to be economically benefited via this system. CBDC's are coming

The usa can't do CBDCs 60% of us currency is outside the usa in the form of cash.
Powell avoided the CBDC related questions in the last imf panel about digital currencies he knows CBDCs can't be implemented without abolishing cash and he knows the usa attempting to abolish cash will result in hyperinflation as the entire world dumps us banknotes at the same time since most are in dark money anyway.

>this is actually happening and has much greater implications.

I am under the impression that the boomers in charge are like the catholic church trying to ban the printing press due to people printing translated bibbles.
And since they can't ban the printing press(crypto in our case) they now want that the printing presses can only be used inside a monastery with CBDCs so to speak.

The imf panel on digital currencies showed me they are all minus powell a bunch of fucking retards.
Look at this shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVmKN4DSu3g

All they want to do is to recreate the existing system but changing the interface to replace a bank home page with a software but keeping everything the same.
Except more orwellian like the mexican fat faggot from the bis suggestng that with cbdcs there will need to be two authorizations to do international payments.
This morons are honestly retarded maybe they are smarter behind closer doors but they seem like total retards that want to hire engineers to create an interface of the same shit we have now and call them CBDCs.

>>23959128
>There's no world conspiracy to get rid of Trump. Fuck off with that.

Trump is an incompetent retard but all social democrat countries went full lockdown and only started to ease them when the us economy got total rekt and the usd did QE4 thus inflating the dollar.
And the whole back better shit is everywhere now thousands of conference with the same speech?
This entire fucking year feels scripted as hell , not to mention the chimpouts one day trump is literal satan for trying to close borders due to covid , then literally cheeto hitler for not enforcing quarantines , then when the floyd shit happened all the global media attacked trump the usa and even supported marches in their countries like mass protest in europe due to george floyd lmao.
Then once again muh quarantine get inside , it was a massive operation this fucking year too much coincidences , not to mention bill gates , schwab and the entire elite sold stocks in january & febraury and all the ceos resigning.

>and the economy is addicted to inflation.

The keynsian house of cards is not an economy it's a moster eating itself and more & more disconnected with the real world.

>Bretton Woods made the dollar the reserve currency, but it's not like other countries haven't tried to get off it

it's the game theory before bretton woods a backed currency would always win to a non backed one.
After bretton woods all are unbacked and going down relative to hard assets and no one can go back due to game theory since the only safe asset is the one with the biggest gravity pull aka the dollar due to existing momentum.

>that everyone else's currency is even worse.

Because everyone is inflating to maintain their parity to the usd and all are floating to 0.

>>23952638
It does.
Everything is going up, you are just dumb

>>23959247
The migration to CBDC's won't be an on/off switch. It will be a gradual migration. (Maybe even implemented via incentive = claim your $1,200 by opening your account). There is no fundamental reason that such a system can't be implemented over time. Commerce is almost entirely digital, and central banks won't have an issue fleecing commercial banks. Powell basically said they are inevitably coming, he's talking about getting it done right, rather than first - I like the expression "You don't put on a condom unless you're going to fuck.". He's not talking about CBDC's for fun. That discussion you sent is the one I saw.

CBDC's are coming. The tools they'll be able to use by being able to touch your money directly, and by controlling economic behavior directly in this manner, are quite frankly impossible to ignore. The latest possible scenarios for CBDC's are by legislating the existing one's i.e. Tether being backed by the Fed via (heavy) legislation and oversight. The Fed acknowledges it's bad at developing these types of technologies.

As I'm sure we both agree, this will make Bitcoin the de facto store of value. Although this will happen regardless as it's superior to gold in every conceivable way and in ways we haven't foreseen due to its programmability.

>>23959388
Yes i agree that bitcoin will become the defacto store of value, but i am terrified of this pandoras box.
Today it's cbdcs to do helicopter money , tomorrow it's bernie sanders vs ocasio cortez debating if trans people should get extra 300 usd per month and white males a 5% extra tranasction fee.

The pandoras box this shit will open will destroy democracies forever
We urgently need a 90s style neoliberal movement with people like milton friedman supporting the reduction of state spending and liberalizing shit.
Not this crap to keep accelerating the velocity of money and inflating everything.

This neofeudal crap will destroy g20 countries even if it's a "slow transition", maybe growth moves to non compliant countries that refuse cbdcs.
But i can't see cbdcs working with income tax and wealth taxes , they will be so inflationary that anyone earning above minimum wage will be paying 80% in taxes and will end up having the opposite effect.
This keynsian retards think they can defeat thermodynamics by putting energy and receiving even more energy than they put into the system.
They are doing everything they can to NOT FIX the problem that staretd in 1971 literally everything , it's pathetic honestly.

>>23952638
The money does spill into the economy by way of financial institutions offering people cheaper loans. That's why you might've been seeing advertisements for generous car financing deals lately for example. There are two reasons inflation isn't rising: inflationary pressures from monetary policy are met with deflationary pressures due to economic downturn and monetary policy has a response lag from a few months to a year.

>>23958752
where to find high end Venezuelan hookers? asking for a fren

>>23959615
https://www.soloindependientes.com

>>23959477
Listen to Joe Rogan's podcast with Bernie Sanders. The best argument I've ever heard against Bernie is that he's a "socialist". Beyond that no one seems to be able to construct an argument against any of his policies. The truth is, the US is much different from 50 years ago. Boomers were given great ROI's on bonds, equities and real estate. Because of the Keynesian policies you point out, these opportunities have either dried up or completely vanished.

That's why things like UBI are starting to be legitimately discussed by legitimate thinkers. It's not a political issue, it's a pragmatic one. Monopolies, technology being deflationary and inflationary monetary policies have created this new landscape, not to mention the future of robotics/AI.

Social issues are largely unimportant to the economy. These things happen over time regardless of governments. The "left" leaves you behind, with or without your ethical viewpoints. Old social views die out with the generations.

Discussions like this are starting to happen more and more. More people are looking at Bitcoin. The internet (look at RealVision) is democratizing education. Things will change because the current system is unsustainable. The wealth gap is going from tragic to hilarious - eventually it hits a breaking point and policies change.

CBDC's will make taxation easier (you won't even need the IRS at some point), but won't effect the policies themselves. I.e. they won't be able to simply take 80% of your money. They will probably do things like adjust your interest rates based on who you are. Not sure if you heard this, but I think he touches upon it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL2LfVRl3J0&t=8s

>>23959638
woah nice!
will I get scammed if I dont speak spanish tho?

>>23952638
Deflationists are retarded. The bad loans being replaced by the Fed Reserves were already lent out. This is all retroactively inflationary by preventing capital destruction via bank bankruptcy.

Are the banks just never gonna lend again? Because that's the only way QE isn't inflationary.

>>23959648
I actually look at the real vision channel since a long time ago.
While you are right about the us being different the thing you are not noticing is that the keynsian policies basically stolen from the future.
It's not that they worked and no longer work.

it's that they worked by stealing from the future by disconnecting from the gold standard in 1971, of course the boomers benefited they accumulated assets and then those currencies inflated relative to those assets , so they bougth a house working 8 months for 20k usd and then sold it for 2 millions last year.

As for the deflation you are assuming that deflation would be bad , yet technological deflation is good , because it means prices go down due to technological advances which means more people can consume those products deflating obviously you would not want total deflation but you get the idea.

>Social issues are largely unimportant to the economy.

Go check how much of the budgets go to gibs , governments now are terribly doing their fucking job and are doing a shit ton of things they were never created to do in the first place.

>The "left" leaves you behind, with or without your ethical viewpoints

They can leave me behind if they are about to jump off a cliff.

>Old social views die out with the generations.

This fourth turning is gonna send us to the dark ages if free cryptos don't go to absurd levels i mean even higher than gold marketcap levels.

>The wealth gap is going from tragic to hilarious

The wealth gap is caused by kenysian policies the same ones that want cbdcs to stimulate the economy.
First the poor were banned of accumulating capital in the 90s , then the middle class in 2008 now in 2020 even the higher middle class.
The more inflation grows the more peoples budget goes to survive and less saving thus only existing players keep accumulating capital since everyone else is poor as fuck.

>>23959648
>
CBDC's will make taxation easier (you won't even need the IRS at some point), but won't effect the policies themselves. I.e. they won't be able to simply take 80% of your money. They will probably do things like adjust your interest rates based on who you are. Not sure if you heard this, but I think he touches upon it here:

Desu you must be living in a small government place, here in argentina the government is totally out of control.
Yesterday a tax on wind was created , there is like 140 taxes already , wages that don't allow to buy monthly basic food goods are paying income tax now due to inflation , tax brackets are never updated for inflation and more people are paying them , the rich are escaping to uruguay due to "wealth taxes" being planned.

This is where the west is going

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YeEGcrinSM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century

You are assuming that the people in charge are good and rational , when in reality they are good only for the system not for the people and pretty retarded in general like autists focused on a single thing.

Germany is even propposing a tax on working for home already.

Taxes over taxes over taxes over taxes over more taxes, a feudal serfs payed less tribute than the modern men in a keynsian shithole.

>>23959685
I doubt it as long as you are not a fucking retard, if you live with remote income come here dude you will live like a king , minimum wages are around 90 usd now hahahahaha.

>>23954405
In any decent country and any relevant markets, stocks will always go up. At a minimum the stock market will reflect an economy's growth as its output improves and long-run inflation

>>23955593
I'm 50 50 crypto and precious metals

>>23952638
They don't have money printers. All QE and other asset purchase programs do are literally create bank reserves. That's it. All the assets they purchase are bought with restricted funds that can only count towards bank reserves. The Fed literally can only create bank reserves. That's it. If Congress isn't authorizing deficit spending, then there is no inflation. Bank reserves are not money. The Fed's balance sheet could be $5 quintillion, and if it were all bank reserves, there'd be NO INFLATION. The Fed has a very small dick and has convinced you retards that it has a very big dick. Well, it doesn't. They are literally powerless and you fell for the money printer meme like they wanted you to.

QE makes cheap loans available.
people are not gonna run to the bank and borrow money for food, travel and iPhones. What's happening is companies are borrowing the money and invest it which benefits stock holders. The government might borrow to invest in stuff, again this only benefit companies.

there's an increase in monetary supply due to cheap loans but there is no increase in consumer prices because consumers aren't lending.

>>23959789
We mostly agree on most points. In the US many complain about taxation, but it's not as bad as many European countries which are consistently ranked as being "happier" based on a myriad of important metrics. Taking into account various levels of governmental ineptitude taxation to some extent at least pays for public goods. It's inflation that's theft. Though I agree taxation can get out of control quickly.

>>23959925

the only exception is real estate. people borrow money to buy real estate and that's why the cheap loans cause inflations in the housing markets.

new money is not created by QE, money is created by lending. when people lend to buy -thing- that's when price of -thing- shoots up.

>>23959855

QE makes cheap loans available and loans are a literal money-printer.
the bank doesn't need to hold a balance sheet of cash in order to lend, it creates money out of thin air and hand it to the borrower.
there's your connection between QE and money supply.

>>23959855
>Knowingly make over extended bad loans that will likely never be paid back
>Fed buys your mistakes and swaps them out with reserves
>Keep knowingly doing this worse and worse because, "lol fuck everybody else"
>Pay propaganda pieces to tell everyone QE isn't inflationary so they'll buy your shit bond scheme
QE is inflationary. It's simply not immediately inflationary. As long as retards don't connect the dots, in can happen in perpetuity, and all you gotta do is withhold loans for a year or two to spook everybody.

>>23953942
And youre an unbased retard

>>23952638
Because those are the items with the longest time horizons, and the banks are doing everything they can do NOT signal a bank-run while they cash out our long term wellbeing prior to the great reset.

Hyperinflation doesn’t happen to world reserve currencies. They’ll never give commodity holders a chance to pay back real debts in worthless dollars.

Indefinite stagflation with steady asset price inflation is my call with a transition into a CBDC within this decade. This is what I would do if I were a ruthless central bankster elite

>>23959933
>but it's not as bad as many European countries which are consistently ranked as being "happier" based on a myriad of important metrics.

Desu those indexes are probably made by social democrat think thanks , most europeans are deeply pissed about the current state of things.
However they are also the most docile population on the planet since anyone with balls left that continent generations ago or died in wars.

>Taking into account various levels of governmental ineptitude taxation to some extent at least pays for public goods.

Check budgets from around the world , 15% si government duty 85% is gibsmedat or gibsmedat related to buying votes or absurd shit the governments should never be doing.

And even in things that the government should be doing they are doing it terribly.
Inflation adjusted the apollo program is still 12 times cheaper than the f35 program , shit's massive fucked up , the keynsian shit of "ayyy lmao don't balance budgets inflation is good" has caused this shit.

It's totally fucked in every regard i think you may view me as a doomer but the more you look at the shit going on the worse it looks.

>>23959855
When people cash out stocks that were pumped by QE the monetary base increases since the fed leaves them frozen forever and the one cashing pumped stocks by the fed moves the money into the economy.
Of course since the people in the market are richer they outbid each other for real estate and not spagethis but this is not much different policy than hugo chavez did , just injecting the money from top down instead of down top.

>>23959984
QE does fuck all if the banks aren't lending. Credit is contracting right now.

>>23959999
This guy get's it the thing is that qe is hugo chavez tier policy but from top down.

And

1_People cash out pumped stocks at different times
2_They don't outbid each other for good used by the masses

So QE is inflationary from top down and the interesting is that it's a massive capital injection to the economy but it's left to the market to decide when to cash it out for real goods.

But it's not a good solution at all , in fact it will end in a communist revolution as two classes are created and the class that owns nothing end ups devouring the other one due to sheer numbers.

>>23960172
QE money does not go into anything.

Bank A sells bond to Fed. Fed takes bond. Fed gives bank $ in restricted account that they can count towards their reserves. Bank literally cannot take that money out. /biz/ is the most retarded when it comes to the monetary system. You guys have been had.

>>23960138
Tell that to the Romans or the britbongs that live in cucksheds that cost 70 years of higher middle class wages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YeEGcrinSM

>>23960205
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=gI4A

Also pic related they can larp all they want but qe money is reaching the markets and is totally synchronized with the fed balance sheet growing and the effect is instantly.

>>23959648
good video. thanks

>>23960275

Your pic shows correlation but correlation is not the same thing as one thing causing the other.
amount of chocolate consumed is heavily correlated with nobel prices but I don't think munching sugar is gonna make me a genious.

QE does indeed affect the stock market but not to the extent that your picture indicates, there has been research done on this topic.
your picture shows correlation, and there is a small degree of one causing the other but it's not the whole story. If you want to argue that the correlation is fully explained by causation you have to present some evidence.

>>23960592
What nonsense are you spreading?

If no causation exists (kek!) then what is it? Also, if research shows whatever you are peddling then Gibs research data. Don't just cite something and dismiss what others say.

FED is holding up all the shit loans and is preventing a market crash, they are the last lender and are stepping in. FED intervention is priced in to the market.

>>23960138
Yes it does. Victorian pound to usd was 12 to 1. It is now 1.2 or 1.3 usd to gbp. Is that not a hyper inflationary event? Your time scales is way off because you think this is weimar Germany and it'll happen on a Sunday afternoon and then end on a Tuesday morning.

The decline of the dollar will accelerate and become trend-like for many years. Macro event take years to form.

>>23952638
Anon recently I realised there is a hidden inflation. And that is how the quality of our food is declining all the time. I bought some home brand Nutella and the main ingredients are sugar and oil only 1,4% Choco. So yeah the prices aren't getting higher but the quality is declining.

>>23960592
Anon it's directly correlated look at the fucking chart and march this year as soon as qe started the markets pumped from 17k to 30k

>>23961316
Check out Shrinkflation

my question for all of this is why was it necessary to do QE in the first place? why couldn't they just let the assets depreciate and let new money take over the cheap assets?

obviously this is bad for the boomers sitting on ridiculously over-inflated assets like land/houses, but are they really that powerful as an interest group?

>>23961464
>but are they really that powerful as an interest group?

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

They are the only generation alive that accumulated wealth during the gold standard then they had 49 years of fiat currency pumping the assets they accumulated.

Pic related is their power and it's the same all around the west since the gold standard ended internationally due to bretton woods falling on august 1971 all around the world.

>>23961432
it's called entropy, don't call it by other name, ever since currency disconnected from gold which had a natural inflation of around 1% per year the entropy of the monetary system has been increased and everyone became poorer and poorer.

>>23961502
>>23961536
in theory would a fiat currency that's legally required to remain at a constant fixed supply be equivalent to or potentially even more stable than gold?
i don't believe in the "inherent value" of gold since it can be mined, used in unrelated products, destroyed, etc. so it does naturally fluctuate but do agree that having an inflationary currency is pure retardation

>>23959712
I think the same way Anon. There might be short term deflation as QE money goes to pay loans (if the QE leaks) but then we will still get the inflation as more QE wipes out currency value.

Bond issuances have been under bought so we know that there is more currency than debt, ego inflation.

Though it seems right, it feels like something else is missing. Not sure what.

>>23961567
>in theory would a fiat currency that's legally required to remain at a constant fixed supply be equivalent to or potentially even more stable than gold?

Yes but that's impossible from a game theory perspective since those emitting the currency would inflate.

Look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YeEGcrinSM

rome during the third century attempted that in parts , there were literally fuckign tokens emitted by cities and shit like that.

And Rhode Island in the usa is a perfect example of this , they didn't joined the revolution nor the british because they were emmiting their own currency even before the revolution and were evaporating their debts with inflation.
Even if you put a priestly class to do what you are asking they would be corrupted or forced by circumstances to inflate at certain points until you end like this.

The usa went from 1971 to 2008 pretty well with fiat as they were operating as you described as if the gold standard kind of existed , but once the system had problem the boomers bribed themselves out with brrrrrrrrrrr.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE

>i don't believe in the "inherent value" of gold since it can be mined

Gold or Bitcoin have 0 "inherent value" , they both operate under two conditions

1_They are scarce(bitcoin 1.80% yearly inflation gold around 1.50% due to it's world supply on the earth)

2_Both use proof of work since circulating stocks of gold had to be mined to be obtained and if you are going to mine it you are going to sell them above the mining costs thus this causes them to be good inflation hedges.

Bitcoin has a third strength which is that you can send it anywhere which means it can't be shorted long time or dilluted with paper shares since people using for international wires end up bringing the market price to the real one pretty fast.

>>23961567
> so it does naturally fluctuate but do agree that having an inflationary currency is pure retardation

Yes but not as much as you would believe pic related is all the gold ever mined.

Assuming the price of gold does 10x maybe the inflation goes to 3% after a few years and then goes down as the price falls as miners sell which causes miners to stop mining.

It's a self adjusted scenario and since all currencies were backed by gold all nations had this self moderating mechanism as a game theory but after this.


https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

it's a race to hell , the usd / eur rate can be the same for 10 years but relative to real estate or anything with low supply both lost massive ammount of purchasing capacity.

>>23961639
seems like a crypto would be the only solution here then
gold has the same problem as fiat, as the powers that can be can just say "oops well gold doesn't matter anymore" to bail themselves out at any time as they did in '71

the main obstacle for bitcoin seems to be that it's hilariously unstable due to it currently being used more as a commodity than a currency
and nobody is going to want to trade all their dollars for it while this instability exists, so it's kind of a chicken and egg situation

>>23952955
Are you a brainlet no way your computer and electronics is 100% American

>>23961716
Correct Nixon fucked everything with a single pen.

Crypto is interesting because it would not kill fiat just force a new international monetary standard and since crypto would not be inflating itself other nations would not be devaluating to keep the parity.

Very interesting , would be a hybrid hard currency-fiat type of governance.

>the main obstacle for bitcoin seems to be that it's hilariously unstable due to it currently being used more as a commodity than a currency

Not really bitcoin had 4% inflation until may this year as inflation decreases so it becomes more sensible to the weakness of fiat currency.

Check bitcoin price in Argentinean pesos , brasilean reals , turkish lira, Indian rupee, Mexican pesos.

As you will see the more inflationary the fiat is the best bitcoin worked as a hedge, and as bitcoin inflation decreases it becomes a better hedge.
Right now it already has lower inflation than the dollar and euro since may and it has not went down on cent since then.

Inflation is a meme delivered to you by goldbugs to buy their bags

The entire world economy is slowing down as there is no growth left. All the easy opportunities to invest and make money are gone. The most innovative companies today have created monopolies or are cannibalising already existing industries. Capital can no longer go to productive investments (there are none) so it is left to find yield or thrown at speculative investments. Companies can no longer find productive investments for their money or create business opportunities but instead buyback their own stock to enrich their owners and senior managers who collude to make it happen.

Capitalism doesn’t work without growth and we reached the limits of growth

>>23952638
Because velocity (the rate at which money is used in the actually economy buying goods and services) is low. Couple that will what this guy said back in 1994 on charlie rose and it's hard for the fed to create real inflation. They create inflation for the rich (stocks, bonds, real estate etc) but they cant stop the loss in wages and velocity of money due to the lockdowns, 2008, and stupid globalist trade deals/illigal immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwmOkaKh3-s

>>23961815
This has nothing to do with muh capitalism and everything to do with the nature of a fiat-based, debt-driven economic school of thought called Keynesianism mate. You want to blame 'capitalism' for the Fed printing money left right and centre to bail out supposed monopolies that would have shit themselves long ago, but the government decided they were 'too big too fail'? You want to blame 'capitalism' for the fact that no company wants to even attempt to start in anything but tech due to excessive regulations and tax burdens? We're not at some arbitrary 'limit of growth', we're at the rim of a flawed cesspool of cronyism that's full to overflowing with bad debt that has been forced down the throat of every businessman in the country, who must borrow or die.

>>23962006
>Capitalism
>without usury and money printer (because they go together)

But what happens when the first business gets infinite fake kosher capital? It's eternally a race to the bottom. If you don't take the debt, you can't stay in the marathon.

>>23961815

Enriching the owners is the whole point of a company in the first place. How is this a bad thing?

>>23962053
Interest and capitalism go together because that's the point of making an investment. A dividend or profit from increase in share prices is hardly different to interest.

Currency debasement is specifically a tool of government; common people used to stone, imprison or exile anyone who used false weights, but only government can get away with inflation due to their monopoly on violence. Accumulating wealth is human nature, to take something that is unworked and turn it into something of value, to be productive and save for the future, to provide for family and share with friends. The solution is not to 'get rid of of capitalism' like brainlets and commies believe, because the money printer is the problem and pretty much always has been in any advanced civilisation.

>>23955980
Until they cut the dividend

>>23953155
because Aussi gold miners pul out kilo sized nuggets out of the ground.

Gold is heavy inflationary.

>>23954186
cute

>>23962108
Enriching the owners is only legitimate where this creates benefits to everyone else (increased competition should reduce prices of goods and services and make everyone comparatively richer).

Without growth we are now living in a system where everyone is progressively getting poorer, the rich however get richer

>>23962172
>the money printer is the problem
It isn't, although you're on the ball with your previous comment and clearly understand the debt based ponzi we now live in.

The problem is debt. Even when the dollar was backed by gold, and I mean *really* backed by gold, there were economic crises. Government always makes it worse, especially money printing, but debt is the problem.

>>23962411

>Enriching the owners is only legitimate where this creates benefits to everyone else

what? no
if I invest my time and money into my company then I will run that company any way I see fit.

feel free to dedicate your time to enriching everyone else if you want to but you are not deciding what other people should do with their time and money.

>>23959477
Sounds good. I will test my tranny arbitrage strategy

>>23962411
Ok, so midwits always gripe about people like Bezos having billions of dollars, but no one cares about the billions of dollars of products and service his company provides to customers. Amazon doesn't have a police force that can rock up at your door and force you to buy an Instant Pot, you have to willingly exchange your money for the product because you desire the Instant Pot more than your cash. The trade has to be mutually beneficial or you wouldn't do it, so technically Bezos is richer because people give him dollars, but you and I are also benefited because we have the thing we wanted too. Ergo, Bezos enriching himself creates benefits to everyone else, reducing the price of goods and services and making everyone comparatively richer.

Of course there's other dodgy shit going on with government regulation blocking out competitors, but that's a separate issue

>>23962452
I don’t have a problem with business’s running things the way they see fit.

I have an issue with people deluding themselves in thinking that this is not self interested behaviour. In a perfect world, yes, companies should be allowed to do what they want but if they are actively eroding job security, wages etc of ordinary people this shouldn’t be tolerated, the overall system is not right

Holy shit, this the smartest post I havr seen on biz for months. No pajeet scams but actual discussions

>>23962840
All human behaviour is self-interested behaviour. If you want to help others, you are acting out of your own desire to help others, hence self-interest. If you want to enrich yourself, you are acting out of your own desire to enrich yourself, hence self-interest. All action is essentially done out of self-interest unless you are a slave, and even then the way you act is out of self-interest to save yourself from being beaten or working to be freed. Reality is, self-interest behaviour is intrinsic.

But that aside, tell me how you envisage a system that prevents companies eroding the job security and wages of ordinary people, how would you do it without creating perverse incentives that only enforce big company monopolies? Minimum wage laws or things like paid parental leave screw small businesses much more than big businesses.

>>23955593
Gold, silver and Crypto. Put some in stocks, but not a whole lot.

Slightly off topic but figure id ask here. Assuming crypto does well next year, i should have a few hundred grand, maybe over a million, but anyways i wanted to use this to buy some land in PA. I want several acres but ive been strongly considering building a house myself since i can select good material and not have it look like a mcmansion or i can try to find some 150+ year old home that i know will outlast me. What should I do? Is it actually cheaper to build a quality home than buying the same one already built?

>>23963133
You'll likely never be able to build a cheaper house than a prebuilt due to economies of scale, but it depends on how much you can do yourself and how much time/effort you want to put into building vs other things. Building is all consuming in my experience

>>23954405
But stonks unironically only go up, in any time, any climate, any universe

>>23952638
Nobody wants to spend more than usual after they’ve bought as much as they expected to so they save money instead while cash poor people cant afford to create inflation.

>>23963226
Overpriced tulips, overpaid communists. The communists found out theres a way to beat them at their own game; compete at reducing profit margins to defeat the competition.

They were crypto-communist federals.

>>23957134
Excellent example of biaised calculation in this pic. Goods such as TVs, represented in this graph, aren't even declining in price. This isn't true. A mid-high end LCD TV 10 years ago was like 1400 bucks, and the same mid-high end TV is still 1400 bucks. Only difference is now it's OLED. What they're doing in this graph (and that's how inflation is calculated for tech), is "Now you have a better equipment for the same price, so relatively it means prices are down". Which isn't true at all. If I need a TV replacement and want to keep my TV in the same tier/range, I'll still have to spend 1400 bucks.

>>23963543
if you could read a graph you'd see the price of TV has barely moved since 2010

>>23953782
>which is production costs actually getting cheaper thanks to more chemistry and economies of scale
thanks to *inflation which makes the economic world run

>>23952638
Money printing leads to asset price inflation via the Cantillon Effect
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rv5xl1AEeQs

>>23953678
t. crypto bagholder

>>23962276
cope. no major gold discoveries in the last 3 years

>>23959834
Me too. Seems to be the best move when accounting for risk.
Also gibberment has a hard time taxing both.

>>23959045
logically those commercial estates will be transformed into non-commercial ones. so the supply of housing will go up i think

if you use older metrics then inflation been pretty steady and solid. like somebody said here QE itself does not necessary find its way to mainstreet it only increases reserves, helicopter money does

1980-based calculation metric

>>23963226