/biz/ - Business & Finance

be poor when others are rich

Stop posting this every week. BCH is trash.

>>23336744
>>23336837
thanks for the buy signal im going all-in

>>23336868
lmao retard

I forgot this shitcoin existed

more link Chinkcoin TRASH amirite???

>>23336676
>>23336868
If it forks again it'll probably drop to a price that could be even lower than BSV. What are your thoughts on that?

>>23336676
Boomer coins for boomer bag holders

>>23337981
>>23336926
>>23336912
>>23336837
Bitcoin cash can buy me a cup of coffee, bitcoin core can't even preform that basic funcion. Lmaoing at corekeks

>>23338233
Having a total shitcoin as your rival is pretty sad really, it's not 2017 anymore

>>23338330
yeah, i'd seethe too if my coin didn't follow what it states to do in the whitepaper LMAO

>>23336676
ok roger
your shitcoin is dead

>>23338856
and thats why cash is at $11k right now and bitcoin is at $250 right?
oh...

>>23336676
The only reason to buy this was the fork. Three years ago.

>>23336676
> be retarded and shill failed fork in 2020

>>23338896
How can you defend bitcoin in it's current state? The price difference is based on the branding

>>23336744
Kek

>>23338978
indeed but it applies to you more than you can imagine

>>23336676
This phrase applies to assets with use and value, not random shitcoins.

>>23339002
Nobody gives a fuck about using btc to buy coffee. Wake up

>>23338978
four homosexuals [jimmy, the 4th one, is taking the picture]

>>23339002
>The price difference is based on the branding
no it's based on being the real and original bitcoin and also utility. sv cucks convinced themselves that the true utility of bitcoin is shitposting on twetch and record endless unverifiable useless crap like weather data and actually make it a global burden.

well this shit is going to be hilarious when they wake up and realize their hands were hanging in the potty.

>>23339070
I care about p2p cash, I want to be able to spend money as money for goods and services, what's wrong with that?

>>23339090
>also utility
Could you continue with this?

>>23339129
not sure what to say about this that hasn't been said a billion times bitcoin has only one utility being a trustless permissionless and secure ledger (which is also mathematically hard capped in supply thus inflation proof). it does this by reaching a byzantine fault tolerant distributed consensus called the nakamoto consensus. which only ever made sense sense if the majority of hashpower honestly participates.

and that's bitcoin at it's core. of course thre have been exciting developments atop of the base protocol but it's way too early for that to matter much.

>>23339261
but bitcoin cash and bsv both have that utility value no?

>>23339327
no

>>23339424
but bitcoin cash is byzantine fault tolerant, is a trustless secure ledger and it also capped at 21M lol

>>23339327
yes.

>>23339261

i'm curious, what do you make of etc? shouldn't that be the "real" ethereum? why, pray tell, does eth command a higher price?

>>23339564
>but bitcoin cash is byzantine fault tolerant
no it's not the nakamoto consensus doesn't work if your chain don't have the majority of the hashpower participating.

>>23339580
>i'm curious, what do you make of etc? shouldn't that be the "real" ethereum?
well i have mixed feelings i hated the bailout and swore i will never touch eth on that day. i was utterly disgusted by it. but then again etc is definitely not the real ethereum just a p&d shifork.

all in all i don't really care about it but the reorgs showed exactly why it's retarded as fuck.

>>23339770
>etc is definitely not the real ethereum just a p&d shifork

which happens to be in the top 10 on coinbase.

>>23339738
alright, i'm reading more about the importance of hashpower and it makes sense to me now, sorry for coming off as arrogant anon

>>23336676
Bch is the faggoest plebbit coin ever

>>23336676
This coat tail coin will be out of the top 10 by 2021

>>23339820
so does litecoin and polkadot also used to be some interesting shitcoins in the top 10 you can probably no longer find in the top 100.

>>23339261
The shitty thing about BTC is the price tanks everytime the mempool fills up to a certain point. Even if the price moons then it'll be next to impossible to move those coins because of the fees and backlogging.

>>23336676
I've been telling my self that about Tomo.

>>23338233
>Bitcoin cash can buy me a cup of coffee
>bitcoin core can't even preform that basic funcion
BITCOIN IS ABOUT TO RAPE CENTRAL BANKING SYSTEM AND YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT YOUR SHITTY COFFEE TX
JESUS CHRIST YOU DESERVE TO BE POOR FOR LIFE

>>23340321
yeah exchanges need to hurry the fuck up about adopting ln that way you can establish the channel before the price goes up then have instant low fee transactions that don't clog the mempool.
it would also help with people storing their coins on exchanges for this convenience alone.
looks like coinbase is getting there altho not straight on.

>>23339109
You're the only one who still cares about that faggot shit

That's a 2011 talking point

>>23338233
first of all i absolutely guarantee you you can't buy a cup of coffee with btc or bch anywhere in my country.
second i never in my entire life had any problems with buying my coffee with either cash or a card. i can even use my mobile phone now. how about we solve a real actual problem instead?

>>23340430
So much for a secure, P2P currency I guess. lol

>>23340483
What "real problem" are you trying to solve?

>>23340500
3 things really:
1) i need to remove the custodial nature from my banking i hate that others have control over "my" money which really is just a number in their excel sheets
2) fuck inflation! i understand why fiat is practical for governments and the economy, but my savings don't fancy it and traditional investments i have access to are all utter crap.
3) i need real cryptographic security intead of trusting an authority and i also need an escape vehicle for my wealth in case i have to bounce because my own government turns on me.

and that is why i'm all in bitcoin and don't care about shitcoins or circlejerk about fucking coffee or which defi scam is the best.

>>23337777
The image is called XD, this is bait

>>23338233
Lol a single Bcash can buy me an tv. A single BTC can buy me a car. Fuck your latte faggot

>>23340488
well technically lightning is p2p but right now without taproot it only works well with large centralized hubs and few hops. exchanges are naturally positioned to be hubs.

this will change in time or not who knows. but the trustless fallback to layer 1 settlement means it's still trustless and non-custodial even with a pretty centralized topology.

>>23340544
But as long as the BTC blockchain is crippled, you solve none of those things.

>>23340561
Lightning isn't being used really and it's not secure. So what's the fucking point?

>>23340566
you call it crippled i call it lean and mean and scaling exponentially not the full retard cashie way.

>>23340584
>and it's not secure
where the fuck do you get this idiocy?

Fuck imagine being a salty cashie in 2020. Absolutely deserve to be poor for falling for that shit kek

>>23339109
Payments is a race to the bottom and is always best served by centralized sources. The point of bitcoin is providing a stable monetary base that can't be fucked with or shut down. Trying to complete with visa means you not only lose to visa, but you destroy what makes bitcoin valuable in the first place.
Use bitcoin directly for censorship resistance and storing your wealth, use a centralized stablecoin pegged to bitcoin for your dumb coffee bullshit.
2020 and cashies still haven't figured it why bitcoin is actually important

>>23340600
It's not scaling exponentially at all though? Literally less people using that goofy shit than WBTC. lol
>>23340615
It's not nearly as secure as being a blockchain tx. There are many more points of failure.

The other point is that the price is lagging severely for it supposedly being the new "reserve asset"

>>23340649
>It's not scaling exponentially at all though?
of course it is. lemme give you an example...
a single lightning payment channel can do 25k tx/sec and you can make almost 150k of them per day which puts bitcoins testbench throughput to around 3.75 billion tx/sec after first day of doing so.
WITH 1MB BLOCKS
>It's not nearly as secure as being a blockchain tx.
it is a blockchain tx. a lightning channel is nothing more than a bitcoin transaction that is yet to be sent to the miners.

>>23340646
>Payments is a race to the bottom and is always best served by centralized sources. The point of bitcoin is providing a stable monetary base that can't be fucked with or shut down.

you mean like gold and silver?

>>23340584
You know why lightning isn't being used? Because there really is no need for payments yet. Nobody wants to spend money that could 10x.
Cashies think bitcoin has failed because lightning adoption is slow, but what actually has failed is the massive narrative that was pushed by these forkers toward the payment narrative when people don't actually give a fuck. Lightning and bcash adoption are 100% proof of this fact.

Wait until DLCs on lightning allow native derivative trading and watch lightning increase massively. Gambling is what we actually want

>>23340679
>a single lightning payment channel can do 25k tx/sec

as far as i can tell this is just a bullshit number. they're not doing 25k tx/s. the payment channel is just there for when someone does not hold up their end of the bargain, which they assume to be infrequent enough that it doesn't overwhelm the limited transaction throughput btc has.

>>23340679
>>23340710
People already have Uniswap for gambling. Why would they go to Lightning where there is nothing happening? Even the price of alts compared to BTC shows this trend. The volume of Link is even higher than BTC on Coinbase.

>>23340649
Lightning isn't supposed to be as secure, that's because there is a natural tradeoff happening. Tradeoffs are what actually allow scaling to happen. And in lightning you still retain ability to have full custody of your funds, plus your transactions aren't stored for eternity for chainanalysis to analyze. These are good tradeoffs but they come with hot wallet risk, which is why you only put casual amounts into lightning at a time.
The problem is you act like there are no tradeoffs to big blocks instead of being honest about it

>>23340700
it's about a 100 times better than gold and a 1000 times better than silver. think about how would you smuggle your gold on board of an airplane! in your anus?

>>23340739
cont.

not saying that lightning is a bad idea but btc is hardly the best platform for it.

>>23340829
>think about how would you smuggle your gold on board of an airplane! in your anus?

i don't know anon, i've never had to do that before. sounds like your priorities are misplaced.

>>23340739
>as far as i can tell this is just a bullshit number.
the tx/sec is only limited by the senders ability to sign per sec and network speed. an average okay pc can easily do 25k signatures a sec

>>23338233
Why the fuck would I want to buy or sell coffee with crypto? I don't have to worry about niggers committing chargeback fraud when buying coffee.

>>23340858

but they're not on-chain transactions, and they require arrangements outside of the bitcoin network to be made to take full advantage of this.

>>23340848
i was referring to the recent news anon about the indian guy and his gold"mine"...
to showcase how fucking inconvenient it is to store and transport metals. especially silver which is fuck heavy for what it's worth i know i own some of both.

>>23340773
Because blind oracle signatures are 100x improvement over bullshit like chainlink. You can have as many oracles signing the outcome included in your multi sig as you want (say 11 of 15) and none of the oracles even know you are using them in your bet, they just sign prices or nfl scores whatever you want accessible through normal web server apis. Because of taproot this bet with your counter party looks exactly like a normal single sig transfer even though it could have tons of oracles or multiparty bets. Do it on lightning and you take it chainanalysis from the picture too. Show me a better way to gamble than that. The opportunity is massive here

>>23340883

it's not like you have to carry it to work every day. it's a much better store of wealth than bitcoin.

>>23340793
You don't understand economics. If the fees go exponential when BTC starts to moon then it stops people from buying in, as is clearly evidenced currently. As those fees become exponential, you just make Jihan Wu insane amounts of money. He then continues to grow his mining majority. The game is already over if you didn't figure it out yet. You'll have to literally take BTC away from the ASIC mining to win your fight. But that will be the clearest signal of all that btc is over.

>>23336676
roger ver/marc de mesel circlejerk boomer token muh 40% CAGR

>>23340882
i get the feeling you don't actually understand how lightning works. it's a ""multisig"" transaction that can be superseded by a new settlement transaction and for this reason it is witheld from the network temporarily. the arrangement is entirely between two transacting parties (well int he simple case).

>but they're not on-chain transactions
and that's why they scale exponentially instead of linearly. because only the final settlement hits the blockchain. you could have transacted on a single channel a billion times and you can make and settle with 2 on-chain tx.

>>23340887
Shit if you want all of that shit then you could just go to bsv. You're literally just going in circles with your reasoning. The difference would be that bsv would be more secure than your lightning casino

>>23340897
>it's a much better store of wealth than bitcoin
lol, peter go away!

>>23340913
Wtf are you even bringing up mining for you dumbass? Since the fork, the bitcoin hash rate has done several multiples, its already up like 40% just since the halving this year. Meanwhile bcash is still sitting at the same exact 2.5eh/s and has never increased from the original fork, in fact it has only gone down since then just like the price in btc

>>23340913
>You'll have to literally take BTC away from the ASIC mining to win your fight.
don't think you can convince me about this, but you can try.

>>23340965
Jihan Wu is the dominant miner of both chains. The guy could literally shut down btc if he wanted. Instead you guys want to pay him insanely high fees, which only makes him more dominant. lol>>23340986
Lightning Network is already a move away from ASIC mining. You know that.

>>23340773
the way i see it bitcoin volume is low because almost everyone that wanted to sell below $100k already sold. no sellers buyers are sitting on needles and dwindling supply.

>>23340949
>you could have transacted on a single channel a billion times and you can make and settle with 2 on-chain tx.

"could" being the operative word. and what about all the people trying to do on-chain transactions without the lightning network? and why is bitcoin an ideal platform for this layer 2 solution? and why do we need it in the first place? it doesn't solve the scaling problem because you're compromising to the point where it's hardly even necessary to utilize the blockchain at all.

>>23341002
>Lightning Network is already a move away from ASIC mining. You know that.
wat? come on this must be trolling. nobody is this stupid.

>>23340956
You don't understand anything. BSV would be a giant contract obvious on chain. Immediately noticeable and expensive for nodes to validate and stored forever to be deconstructed by anyone that cares enough to figure it out. You'll even be able to easily tell who the Oracles are

Doing it the smart way with schnorr musig and taproot means it literally just looks exactly like a normal bitcoin transaction from address a to b. Doing it on lightning makes it even better because there isn't even an on chain footprint for it. Meanwhile this is extremely easy for nodes to validate and allows the chain to be used very efficiently, literally zero downside unlike bsv which is ALL downsides

>>23341010
>and why is bitcoin an ideal platform for this layer 2 solution?
because it's the one and only trustless permissionless and publicly auditable ledger to date that is also secure.

>>23341021
Sorry I mean the SHA256 mining. You get my point though.

>>23341010
>Bitcoin can never scale at 7tps!!!
>If lightning works then the 7tps blocks will be empty!!
Get smarter you absolute retard

>>23340962

yes, it's quite the craze. that doesn't mean it's technically sound or more private or less risky than PMs. the prices are brutally manipulated and it make a few speculators and early adopters rich. good for them. it's strictly inferior to PMs.

>>23341027
But it would still be far more secure to use a blockchain.

>>23341063

it's certainly easier to defeat a straw man than to answer my questions, i'll give you that

>>23341027
yeah to do 3 billion tx/sec on bsv would mean 400 terabyte blocks which would mean 60 petabyte a day blockchain growth and probably that's more than the entire traffic off the global internet.

>>23341084
For big bets you absolutely could use base layer for security. If you want to build a fantasy football league with small bets then use lightning. Whats your point? My point is DLCs are fucking awesome compared to every other defi idea out there

>>23341062
less risky? no. technically more sound, hell yeah! but i'm a programmer not a boomer.

>>23341144
Why would people want to make bets that are insecure?

>>23341092
You didn't have a question, you implied the base layer will fail because lightning will take away its usage. The "answer" is obvious, we will constantly be using base layer for submarine swaps in and out of lightning, batch channel opens and closes, coinjoins, coinswaps, etc.

>>23341177

that's not at all what i said. i have no doubt that bitcoin will survive far into the future but it is self-limiting by design and this will stunt its adoption.

>>23341177
Why isn't this great achievement reflected in the price of btc though? I mean is the market wrong or is btc just a stable coin now?

>>23341171
Bsv is fundamentally insecure you dumbass

>>23341240
It's no less secure than lightning

>>23341208
Price of bitcoin is doing pretty good dude. Remember it was only above 10k for like two weeks last bull run after blowing up from 300 dollars. New floor is getting set and slowly raised

>>23341157

metals just sit there in your safe. they're reliable to the extent that you can defend an intert object from theft. bitcoin has a huge attack surface. it could be gone one day and you'd have no recourse whatsoever.

>>23341208
Because using crypto for small transactions is and has always been retarded.

>>23336676
i can't believe that this thread reached 100 replies
also
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