/biz/ - Business & Finance

Bro vanguard is fucking scam. ETF died out hard years ago.

They just returned billions to Chinese investors.

VTI is the most well known Vanguard meme

>Oct 2015: $100
>Oct 2020: $179

Fucking Gamestop stock is up 400% this year. Tesla is up a million % in the last year. Amazon was like $1600 last year, now it's $3400.

Vanguard ensures you will work til death like they want

>>23231287
VTI is great for a core stack. Any broadly diversified index fund with a low expense ratio is fine. Putting the majority of your net worth in TSLA, individual stocks, or chasing returns in mutual funds is a great way to lose money.

>>23231583
Jesus christ those numbers are real

I've made lots of money with the ARKK ETF this year

>>23231667
This is being pushed by mainstream to keep folks from gains, we're on to you. Imagine owning 1000 shares of VTI in 2015 and not having $200k

>>23231731
They are, and fools like above peddle the index industry's lies to continue acquiring assets

>>23231834
Good choice, Wood is very smart

>>23231583
index funds are a fine replacement for a savings account IMO. but your real money should be in individual stocks, constantly trying to make plays. just a few good plays outweigh dozens of bad plays.

>>23232043
I dont trust financial advisors or stock brokers for this very reason

>>23232142
>>23232043
Totally disagree with that. As amateur investors on /biz/, you are not going to outsmart institutional investors and professional traders. They have a huge information edge over you. There has to be a winner and a loser on opposing sides of each trade, and the loser is likely the individual getting his info from seeking alpha or a stock tip from a friend. This is how the pros make money, by exploiting the trades of low information individuals (and through fees charged to their clients). With the rise of index funds, there are less suckers to take advantage of, so the competition for alpha is even more cutthroat. With a diversified, low fee portfolio you capture the real gains of the overall economy. Gambling on individual stocks is just speculation at the casino. Spoiler alert: the house will take your money unless you are the house (the market).

>>23232142
you're wrong. corporations fuck up all the time and plummet all the time (see kraft heinz). worst case, some of them actually go to 0 (see bear stearns). the wells fargo ceo just said some racist shit i believe for example. you could get lucky with a tesla but the best bet is just to own a SP500 etf if you're to play the boomer market

>>23232043
>t. degenerate gambler

Except the empirical evidence is in stark contrast to your claims.
People on /smg/ and /biz/ seem to think they are better money managers than 80-90% of the mutual fund industry and a large proportion of the hedge fund industry. These fund managers can not even beat the index and at most match it, over a long time horizon

>>23231287
Stonks are laughable gains at best anon. Safety is a meme. Clover42 fixes this especially if poorfag or new.

VTI or VOO?

>>23232392
Assuming that institutional investors know about a given industry as well as someone that works in said industry.

Invest in what you know, follow the trends.

>>23232392
Look at Apple or Netflix vs SP500

>>23232392
Derivatives are a zero sum game but long term investments in an individual stock is not -

FNGU or die niggers

>>23232142
>just beat the market, dummy
If you can do that you should be managing billions and taking the commission millions

>>23232626
I doubt any group or individual has perfect knowledge on what the price of a stock should be, regardless of whether they are in the industry or not. Corporate executive at the top of the industry are probably some of the major contributors to price discovery, however the price of stock reflects the expectations of millions of investors in the most competitively traded, most liquid market of all time. It is unlikely that someone can detect some magical undervaluation that the rest of the market cannot see for some reason (and reliably exploit it). Also, if you are already working in the industry or heavily invested in it, security is one of the major reasons to diversify out of it in case there is a downturn (also impossible for individuals to reliably predict).

>>23232620
VTI for increased exposure to small caps, but they are both good choices.

>>23232755
>>23232777
https://www.valuewalk.com/2016/05/80-percent-stocks-lifetime-return-zero/
Look at 80% stocks having a lifetime return of 0. Sure, you might get lucky and get large gains with an individual stock, but realize your risk adjusted gains will be lower than the broad market.

>>23232807
It's like people saying the market is for boomers, just double your money in a day with blackjack ;)

>>23231287
im going to drop a nice redpill on you
50% TQQQ/SOXL, no hedge, be a fucking man, hold and buy more on the -50% downswings. you will be rich as fuck

>>23232392
>he still believes the efficient market hypothesis in 2020
Do you realize that implies humans become omniscient just because they're pooled into a market? No, humans are just humans, markets reflect their consensus psychology, and popular consensus can and very often turn out to be incredibly wrong, especially that of sclerotic institutional investors. Markets have consistently been wrong about how to go about with longer term tech investing, for example, because boomers are unable to have any foresight for it.
And of course, the rise of passive investing is a massive bubble and an example of such herd mentality. Have fun getting rekt when boomers start selling. There is no free lunch - if you're outperforming the market by doing nothing, that should tip you off that something is fishy.
>>23232807
>what is liquidity
>burdened with being unable to take any real risks

>is an established, low-cost fully legitimate brokerage a meme?

>>23232142
i use a spread of 10 different ETFs as basic savings accounts. Have made about 15% in 2 years. Much better than high yield savings accounts, and far less risky than crypto. Its basically my backup retirement fund if LINK doesnt 10 x from here

>>23233047
Oh, I didn't realize you were omniscient and you can outsmart the market consensus with your predictions. It's so simple, just buy the right stocks! The ones everyone else forgot about. You sure must be rich with that investment skill, maybe you should start a hedge fund and be one more person taking on risk to help support price discovery. I will be taking advantage of this contribution with my plain old index funds.

I have to get some sleep so I won't be replying anymore, but keep any eye on the S&P500 over the years. If you add up all your trading wins and losses over a period of 25 years, I guarantee the index will have beaten you. Especially if you're counting taxes and transaction fees.

>>23233177
10 different ETFs
The fees you must be paying for each one would offset the interest, surely?

>>23232548
>People on /smg/ and /biz/ seem to think they are better money managers than 80-90% of the mutual fund industry and a large proportion of the hedge fund industry. These fund managers can not even beat the index and at most match it, over a long time horizon

You are wrong. What you were told:
> No one can guess which fund manager will do better than the [S&P500] average.

What you heard:
> No one can beat the average

What you repeated:
> Fund managers never beat the average.

>>23232392
This is true if you're a brainlet. If you look at the stocks that have skyrocked over the past decade, it's not exactly a surprise. Let's see here
Wow the company that revolutionized phone hardware did really well
Wow the company that dominated online retail did really well
Wow the company that mass-marketed the electric car did really well
Was it really "alpha" that these companies would perform well in the 2010s? This isn't some bullshit where it's all hindsight, "how could anyone have known!?"...they were clear and obvious innovators right out of the gate with tons of excitement. We all used Amazon back in 2010 too, we all had iPhones, so all it took to outperform boomer index funds was to use your head for ~30 seconds.

>>23233430
>We all used Amazon back in 2010 too, we all had iPhones, so all it took to outperform boomer index funds was to use your head for ~30 seconds.

This anon is absolutely fucking correct. Index funds are for retards. Just pick a stock for a valuable company that will still exist 1 or 2 decades from now and hold onto it for a while.

For example I would not buy netflix in 2020 because they're peddling globohomo shit. And apple will get fucked if trump sanctions some chip maker they use. But amazon is still good to go.

>>23233478
i'd say apple/amazon/microsoft/google/faceborg are good to go for the long term. AMD/Intel/Qualcomm/TSM/NVIDIA also good to go long term. verizon, t-mobile, g2g longterm, at&t probably but lots of debt so would not put a lot into that. activision/tencent also longterm holds. around 35% of my portfolio is tech/telecom/semis/gaming, and to be honest it's all i'm buying going forward since it's the only real growth industry in this clownworld.

>>23233478
You would have peddled banks and GE and Enron too, you retard. Most stocks do not boom forever, if web3 takes off a lot of tech companies are fucked.

>>23233047
But what would a burst of passive investing look like? It would mean the crash of the entire market. A regular bubble is industry/ geographically specific but ETFs can cover everything whilst also not making up the majority of investment in whatever it is invested in.

>2020
>random walk theory
Kek good goy

>>23231834
Thinking of buying ARKF myself.

>>23231667
Pay very close attention to this one kids. Put a $2m portfolio all in TSLA, I fucking dare you.

>>23234047
>just throw a dart at a wall full of tickers you will get the same results!

>>23231287
Vanguard index funds and ETFs do exactly what they set out to do no more, no less. They are not a meme. The core of your investments should be in index funds.

Here's a hint though: look at the valuations and growth metrics of their index funds and ETFs. Do not invest in any stock or ETF that has overall worse valuations and growth prospects. Find small cap companies in inefficient markets that tick off these boxes. Really get to know what competitive advantages such companies have. If they seem like a total package then invest and watch them closely. Do not sell unless the factors that led to you buying them fundamentally change for the worse.

>>23233352
The argument isn't just that no one can guess who will beat the average, but also that none of them can do it consistently, and that the fees active managers charge plus the taxes and overhead of a more active management style tend to underperform the market in the long run.

>>23231287
What do you mean "a meme"?
It's one of cheapest index funds.
What more do you need?

>>23231310
How are they a scam? Who is being scammed?

>>23231583
Worst part of vanguard and all other index funds is the dumb as shit equal weight it puts on each stock. It's essentially a pluck the flowers and water the weeds approach that ensures you're always getting mediocre returns because boomers have to have safety

> People on /smg/ and /biz/ seem to think they are better money managers than 80-90% of the mutual fund industry and a large proportion of the hedge fund industry. These fund managers can not even beat the index and at most match it, over a long time horizon

Yeah, honestly, what are chances of random dude on /biz/ being able to guess the next trend and get in early enough to take advantage of it without being a laggard?

And how will you be right twice - when entering and when exiting?

With index funds you have to be right only once - when you buy.

With individual stocks you have to be right twice. It makes everything more complicated. Plus you have to choose right stocks. Or right fund. For example normies are already talking about ARK fund mentioned here on /r/investing which is laggard sheep central. Sure you want to keep holding it?

>>23233902
completely missing the fucking point.
A smart young person would not have fucked with banks or Enron because they are self aware enough to know they don't know shit about banks and financial firms.
But savvy people using new tech are able to identify disruptive trends better then the warren buffets of the world.

Nobody here doing investing in longevity?
Been following David Sinclair, PhD for quite a while now.

He is doing research on anti-aging. Here is a summary video interviewing him from well known basedboy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRt7LjqJ45k

He has also been on Joe Rogan show and is pretty popular in anti-aging, longevity community.

Theoretically one should be able to invest in his company: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lifebiosciences
https://sharespost.com/life-biosciences_stock/ they are on SharePost.

If one buys pre-ipo of a company that will solve aging, that would be insane.
No guarantee he will do that, but... Won't this be the next big thing aside Space/AI?
We already had the electric car boom. Pretty much reached its peak.
We had the FAANG stock boom, AI, tech.

This is something people haven't been paying much attention to. Longevity and anti-aging. And its even bigger than all else. Not everyone needs a car, but literally everyone wants to be not age and not suffer from age related diseases. No guarantee Sinclair will be guy to find cure, but someone eventually will, right? Ok, maybe in 20-30 years, but some company will.
And you just need to get in on early in Pre-IPO via SharePost, EquityZen or ForgeGlobal and sit tight, right?

Or do you think this is quite stupid and naive even? Maybe he has built up all this reputation and hype only to cash out on his company by doing experiments on rats? I've noticed that so many things in medicine work on rats, but not on humans.

>>23234587
ima give you the benefit of the doubt because your other posts are logical. But work on your damn pasta. It stinks to high hell of curry.

>>23234666
what do you mean by phrase "it stinks of curry"? I'm nordic

>>23234694
It reads exactly like a scammer shilling a shitcoin. The first two lines are pretty much exactly the same as those scam youtube/fb comments.

>>23234706
what use would it be to me?

I want to find the truth, the logical reasons for or against investing. It would make no sense for me to hype a company that is a bullshit investment.

>>23234694
indian vibes

they're not really a scam. they just offer low-risk, low-return funds. pretty much nobody loses money. millenials and zoomers want high risk, high reward returns.
when you see "it's a scam", you should really be reading it as "i'm impatient". rightfully so, though. there's better opportunities out there.

>>23233478
>I would not buy netflix in 2020 because they're peddling globohomo shit
your "example" shows that you are in a very poor position to reason intelligently about high growth sector asset evaluation.

>>23231287
For americans?
70% VT
30% VGT

Don't put all your money in US only like so many retards do

>>23234739
>why yes trannies are a good investment and most certainly don't have a 41% to dump into oblivion

Just do both and get the best of both worlds. 50% of your capital goes into vanguard high dividend yield etf, 25% high risk gambling with individual stocks and 25% into crypto.

>>23232626
the best gains i've made were all with semiconductors, most likely because i know the sector and work in it.
consumer Staples and healthcare on the other hand just treated me mediocre.

>>23234717
that's what I mean when I said I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I don't think you are shilling, but the post sounded a lot like a shill, so I was suggesting you rewrite it to be more organic, if possible.

>>23233352

>>23234728
> there's better opportunities out there.

What better opportunities? I'm a loser cuck holding indices. How do I beat the index? Majority of people fail to beat the index, what are reasons you are not this majority?

>>23233478
>just consult your crystal ball, bro!

>>23235065
I’m literally all in link. I bought at .70 average cost. I’m not losing to the index because I have zero regard for my financial well being to start. I literally invested into the best memes.
8% yoy returns is very easy to beat. Money is a tool, I don’t know, it’s just how I view it. If you want to keep it in cash, put it into harvest.finance stablecoin farms. Or snow swap. Or whatever other defi farm you trust that isn’t going to get ponzi’d by twitter influencers.
We’re beta testing the next generation of financial instruments. It’s not just a shitty ico 2.0 phase retards think it is. There’s no excuse to make meager profits right now. Your have More of an excuse if you said “I lost it all to a hack”

>>23235502
>I have zero regard for my financial well being to start
sounds like the right guy to take advice from

>>23235065
overweight tech and don't be a cuck

>>23231583
thats still a nice 11% a year. and you also get 2% dividend per year. if you have a million in these kind of etf's you making a sweet $130k per year in passive income. this is not a get rich method, but rather a stay rich method

>>23235962
"overweight tech"
yeah and what happens when tech crashes? Or that will never happen because of "reasons"?

>>23235502
>"I'm all in on project that claims to solve an unsolveable Oracle problem"

dude

>>23235502
> If you want to keep it in cash, put it into harvest.finance stablecoin farms.

How safe are those?
What if they get hacked?
What if there are bugs or exploits?

Ok, you get higher returns, but surely added risk, too?

>>23232043
>muh conspiracee
3 out of 4 retail investors lose money
if you can't understand why it would be retarded to tell the public to follow a strategy that is statistically proven to lose on average, you will likely become part of that very statistic sooner or later

>>23234760
Ehh, the largest holdings of VT are also the largest holdings of VTI. They are the largest companies in the world and they have international exposure by themselves.
50% VTI and 50% VT seems like a good spread. Same with BND and BNDW.

>>23234047
When it was $300 it was a good choice

>>23236657
tech isnt going to crash, this is the problem with zoomers and millennials. their only relevant experience r/ crashes is some vague childhood memory of the dotcom crash, or the 2008 real estate crash, so they think thats going to happen again; tech gonnna crash guyzzzzz and houszin gonna crash guyzzzzz. not gonna happen. real estate and big tech are what you buy if you want to make it, otherwise keep gambling on shitcoins while your landlord gets rich and installs smart meters in your house to monitor your behavior lol.

The problem is folks assume you have to hold onto a growth stock forever or buy once instead of DCA over a time span. Index peddling is getting dangerous and one day everyone will run for the exit, not walk, while intelligent investors are hedged and ready to buy when there’s blood

>>23237135
>Ehh, the largest holdings of VT are also the largest holdings of VTI
Obviously
>50% VTI and 50% VT
VT is capital weighted and fine as solo core holding

personally I'm eurobean and all my ETFs are global only, I don't bet on regions but on sectors instead

>>23233352
What you read:
>80-90% of the fund managers can't beat the market

What your dumb brain interpreted it as:
>Not a single fund manager in the entire world can beat the S&P 500

What you wrote:
>I like dicks in my ass

>>23232874
Indisputably based and High T portfolio.

Anecdotally I'm up around 35% in VTI and VOO since 2016, which amounts to about 40k. As other anons have mentioned, index funds are generally good for long-term returns (401ks/IRAs/HSA/etc) but you'll never get a serious windfall (TSLA, AMZN, AAPL, etc). If your goal is to "not lose" money then it's a good choice. If your goal is to "make" money or create wealth, it's not sufficient. It's all about balancing risk.
>>23232620
If you had to pick one, go VTI.

>>23234467
> equal weight
They're weighted by market cap, not equally weighted. Equal weighing means more buying and selling, more turnover, more taxes.

>>23234739
Where can one read about how to do so by the way?

>>23239810
What if you make 7 figures from crypto, would you say something like VTI is the best choice then?