/biz/ - Business & Finance

I don't think there's anything more to it. I've arrived to the same plan. Utilize debt to grow portfolio in the safest possible way. Less risky than pissing away on gibs.

>>22363532
Seriously, I don't see a single flaw. You get liquid cash without losing exposure to crypto assets youre long term bullish on, pay 0% taxes, its completely legal and the interest rates are fairly low (WAYYYY lower than the taxes you would pay to cash out)

Yes

>>22363375
No tax when selling usdc on cuckbase?

>>22363925
Nope, theres nothing to tax, youre selling usdc for usd, its 1:1. Unless usdc happens to be above $1 when you sell, but thats rare and its only ever off by 1 cent or so

>>22363375
Yeah this works well for real assets like stocks, but it’s unreasonable for highly volatile assets like crypto. Just buy low sell high.

>>22363925
No, because there was no gain in value between the time you received the USDC and when you sold it on cuckbase. You would still pay capital gains on the money you make once you buy dividend stocks and sell some of those gains to pay off the loan.

>>22363375
You would still pay capital gains on the dividend stocks, but you’re right that you would avoid a huge capital gains tax if you sold your whole stack. Plus you’d have to buy back your stack.

>>22363375
...and if chainlink fall in price, even for a second, you get liquidated and lose all your linkies?

>>22363375
What about the fees you’d have to pay cuckbase when selling? Do you eat those or can you write them off?

>>22364113
Hence why he said only to borrow against a quarter of your stack, so you could keep the rest on the sidelines as collateral if needed.

>>22364143
write off, you can also write off gas fees which someone smarter than I could exploit

>>22363375
aave loans are a taxable event in the uk since technically you trade link tokens for aLink tokens.

>>22364213
Sorry to hear fren. I thought the US was more cucked but apparently not.

>>22364143
you can sell on coinbase pro for lower fees, or even gemini
>>22364082
paying capital gains on your dividend stock is better than paying cap gains twice when you sell your crypto and then when you sell your stock/get dividend payouts.
>>22364213
1 link = 1alink = same price $. That should not be taxable

>>22363375
>selling a coin for cash
This is where you get taxed

>>22364344
Can you not read? At no point are you selling your coins

>>22364317
it is absolutely taxable. Doesn't matter if the price is the same since presumably the value on the other side of a trade is always equal at the time of the trade

token to token =tax.

>>22364317
It's taxed as if the exchange was LINK-->USD-->aLINK

>>22364391
Aren't you only taxed on gains? Hence capital GAINS or short term GAINS. Lmao.

>>22364496
In the eyes of the IRS you realized your gains from your initial investment when you "sold" your LINK for aLINK. See >>22364444

>>22363979
>>22364082
>>22364213
>>22364297
Before I start
>your jurisdiction/local laws may vary
When you get the USDC, regardless of the mechanism of how you do that, you have acquired an asset. The price you PAID (not the market price) is the cost of the aquisition. The price you receive when you sell the asset is the capital gain.
In this instance, you acquire an asset for one of the following costs:
a) the quantity of LINK paid in exchange for the token
b) the promise of future repayment (i.e. zero upfront)
In scenario a), your capital gains tax is equal to the cost of your (possibly multiple) investment(s) in LINK minus the USD price of the token(s) you receive in exchange. The difference between the two will result in either a capital gain or a capital loss - in either case, this is added to your taxable income for that financial year and you will therefore be liable for either refund or further tax payment.
In scenario b), your acquisition of the token is $0 and therefore the moment you sell the USDC asset you add to your annual income the entire value of the USD you recieve in return, therefore your taxable capital gain is 100% of the return price

>>22364496
yes but you supposedly realize any gains you made by doing a token to token transfer. Basically UK treats the fiat as just another shitcoin already, kinda bullish in that way I guess.

>>22364366
Yes, I can read. You should too >>22364568

honestly, the problem comes two years down the line when there's literally thousands of new millionaires trying this. myself, i have 15k link and some other stack and i have no idea how it will work. i'm a stupid smooth brain, however, i just think the irs will say x amount of money went into 'crytpo' and y amount came out. pay me z and that's the end of it. no way around it.

i also don't get how there's no kyc involved when lending protocols like aave have control of your assets. isn't that custodial? so, what happens if you put your 1M usd as collateral on a platform that allows over collateralized loans. you don't get taxed on cashing out 5million? no fucking way man, no way.

anyways, i'm hoping for the x in y out pay the profits in tax route. there's no way they're gonna have set regulations for defi lending protocols and such. it's far too complicated for them

>>22364568
you stupid nigger the cost of acquisition is the price of USD you paid for the link AT THE TIME YOU ACQUIRED THEM. Once you swap them for USD or USDT or whatever shitcoin at their price now you are realising your gains.

literally just read the gov guidelines that is how it works in the UK

>>22364213
>>22364213
>since technically

No nor true. HMRC might try to push that but a half decent tax lawyer would get that thrown out in about 5 minutes.

Tax shills in this thread.

Reminder to make the decision to pay zero tax under any circumstances and then work backwards from there.

>>22364724
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, clearly. Try again.

>>22364568
Hello tax shill. Please fuck off back to your grubby little office. Crypto was designed to avoid tax liability legally

Loans are tax free.

>>22364729
>HMRC might try to push that
wtf are you talking about man HMRC literally just states the law that got voted in last year.
they're voting on raising CG tax to 40% this november, im sure your fancy tax lawyer can render that decision void as well lmao

does anybody know if the irs asks for proof of revenue or like where i got the money to initially invest from by any chance?

>>22364724
It's a secured loan, not taxable. USDC to USD is 1:1 or close enough that there will be no gains, especially not after paying gas and loan origination fees. They'll either have to fuck up the entire system and rewrite everything or it's a way to semi cash out small amounts under a million without paying taxes. I'm going to be self-employed llc and paying income tax on my steaking so they should be happy I'm not trying to call it dividends or some shit. This is just so I can max out my 401k and IRA. They should not make taxes so complicated if they actually just want a simple in-out-our cut type of exchange. I'm doing just like all the other big boys and paying only what I owe, otherwise what's the point of making so much money that tax strategies become a consideration? If they gave a shit they would have rewrote the tax code decades ago.

>>22364819
yeah, you're explaining Usdt to usd, which isn't the relevant part. the relevant part is what you bought link at and the tax already happens at conversion to usdt, not at cashing out

even more relevant, it also happens when going into aave

now reread the thread and YOU can try again

>>22364822
I am not a tax shill - I just know what the law in my jurisdiction is. I fucking hate the tax office and consider them to be parasites. Know your enemy.
I am developing a business solution to help people like OP convert their crypto for a much better price than what your local tax office will charge, but I need more time to acquire capital and continue tax research before I can unveil the project. I will present it here at that time, so we can thereby all enrich our ourselves and collectively raise our middle fingers at local government officials.

>if chainlink hits $100

So many of you are absolutely obsessed with this shit coin

>>22364941
Strike two.
Actually read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote.
I won't respond to you again.

>>22364915
token to token is a taxable event. and literally any crypto token is regarded as currency in the eyes of current tax law

this is literally on the site holy shit people

>>22364897
You mean like money laundering? Technically yes, if you got 500k in cash you might get away with it under additional income but it will stand out if you are audited. At the end of the day irs just wants their cut, they love drug dealers. FBI, DEA, and your state authorities have a very different viewpoint though, and IRS is not interested in protecting you even if you pay taxes. Getting robbed by the irs is not even half of the game here as the disgusting chimera known as government has many mouths to feed. You can't always get away with feeding just one. That's why I'm paranoid and make sure everything is squeaky clean. Why bother with drugs when shitcoins pay so much more anyway? Crime used to pay but the real pioneers are hustling on the digital front now. Nothing is worth risking jail time. Freedom is the whole reason I want money in the first place.

>>22364971
fuck you're right

well learn to write in a more understandable way

>>22363375
So if I take a loan and buy a yacht... I have to pay that loan back though... right?

>>22363375
if you have no other income and you’ve held your linkies more than 1 year you can cash out up to $40k/year tax free

>>22364961
Gee I wonder why

You think Coinbase is not going to report to the IRS $250k worth of USDC being sold for USD? Lmao, good luck with that.

>>22365269
>$40k tax free threshold
What jurisdiction is this?

>>22363375
>put your cash in dividend yielding stocks
> pay back your $250k aave loan at 7% interest rate with your dividends over 5-10 years
> pay 0% capital gains taxes

This is all asumming AAVE wont collapse or take your link away. That is the terrible flaw in your plan.

>>22365340
Your bank account certainly will flag it with your local tax office even if Coinbase chooses not to; they are obligated by law to do this in most every Western jurisdiction.

>>22363375
Tax if you get liquidated

>>22364961
>he doesnt know

>simply depositing into AAVE is taxable because you're trading LINK for aLINK
W-what? Please no....

>>22363375
You will get flagged for withdrawing that much money. Good luck explaining to the boomer judge how crypto loans work.

>>22365660
i know fren. fuck the uk.

but in a way it's good. better pay those gain taxes now before they raise them to 40%.

>>22365732
>uk
phewwwwwww thank fucking god

>>22364990
god you are biggest fucking spastic I've encountered on biz for a while and that's saying something. Crypto currencies ARE NOT regarded as currency by the revenue hence it being subject to CGT. Lurk moar and only post shit you know about. Fucking faggot

>>22364568
so what if you pay the loan back? you pay tax on the fiat gains sure, but if you're not actually realizing any crypto gains where is the taxable event?

>>22365732
They can't just double cgt that would be insane. More likely that the threshold will be lowered. Would much rather they put a few % on basic rate income tax but would be very surprised.

>>22365927
thanks friend, keep replying

>>22363375
7% yield dividends
7% interest at aave

anon

>>22363375
>health factor
What is a health factor? Like the leeway you have in case your asset loses value?

>>22363375
Also why does the interest rate become 7% when you say it’s typically less than 2%?

in leaf land crypto to crypto is a taxable event.

BUT there is no way in hell the cra can enforce it so take it what you will

>>22366052
You're welcome retard

>>22366416
They don't need to. If they smell something fishy or the cuckbanks that are in bed with the gov't see a large transfer into your account they will hold it until you answer a shit load of questions. Remember the CRA can go back indefinitely if you purposely avoided taxes. They can hammer you with taxes, penalties and interest. Not too mention lawyer, accounting and other fees. Trudeau is going to fuck your gay bumhole. Try lobbying the taxpayers federation to change the crypto tax laws

Maybe trade inside a smart contract to shelter tax somehow? Let it pay out upon your death to the tax authority? Property swaps?
A Poo explains:
https://youtu.be/NV5ubkGQUes?t=82

Perhaps if Fidelity Investments gets in to crypto(which is a work in progress), you could get them to be custodian of your crypto and then take a loan out with a bank.

Relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmEvAk5LRko

>>22364857
Avoiding the point which is that LOANS ARE TAX FREE.

Your masters get nothing.

>>22364990
LOANS ARE TAX FREE. There is no token to token. You are taking a LOAN

>>22364565
Well fuck. I owe about a quarter million in tax LMAO.
WHOOPSY MR IRS MAN I SWEAR I DIDNT KNOW.

>>22367220
>>22367191
I mean, it is true that there is no token to token exchange. It just an execution of the AAVE lending smart contract.

>>22363375
So you're a burger and don't want to pay taxes on your crypto?
>rent a place in Puerto Rico for 7 months
>declaire residence in Puerto Rico
>Wait 183 days
>cash out

Don't over complicate shit. Just talk to a tax attorney beforehand who handles HNW accounts so everything is done by the book and you don't have the IRS breathing down your neck. If you can't scrap together 7 months worth of expenses to live in Puerto Rico, you're either poor or retarded.

>>22367725
good idea for mid to high 6 figures

if you hit 5-10mill, talk to a swiss bank

>www.scam.com
advertising and begging, report accordingly

>>22363375
Enlighten the dummy here:
What's the point of cashing out if all of it is going into dividend stocks? Cold hard cash into stocks seems like I am missing out on any spending money.

>>22367832
There is always a risk that your shitcoin could tank after hitting a huge number. Such as BTC.
You should diversify your investments, so you do not have to rely one investment for gains. This includes, perhaps, buying property.
The point of dividend stocks, is for income. Income will afford you the spending money needed while keeping future gains tax deferred.

Tax deferred depending on your country and what kind of savings accounts they offer

>>22367814
Do Swiss banks allow accounts for US citizens? I thought stopped that a few years back.

>>22365660
Yeah didn't think of this part...
This is how the IRS cucks us all

>>22367384
had anyone been in this situation but only found out years later? what's the solution?

>>22368212
not sure. But I think they could hook you up with one of their international tax lawyers. I guess you could find one in America.
I read somewhere that if its worth their while they will 'give' you swiss citizenship. Now that i think if it. I think you have to have it in order to hold swiss bank accounts...

>>22367725
You'd still have to pay capital gains tax if you're a burger
U can renounce us citizenship then live in puerto rico as an american
And anyway once you renounce us citizenship you are paying the exit tax

>>22368387
>exit tax
same with Leafs

>>22365067
>well learn to write in a more understandable way
What he wrote is perfectly understandable, you're just retarded and have proven as much.

>>22363375
This loophole will be destroyed before you get your ten years to pay it off

>>22368346
Lube