/biz/ - Business & Finance

balls deep in Monero. I know its going to $1000 long term Comfy

>>22215549
Transactions up
Block reward down
Comfy

It's pretty great watching Ethereum and Bitcoin eat shit on transaction fees, when we know Monero has already solved these issues with dynamic fees

>>22216154
The tail emission is actually one of moneros selling points.

what's this about monero being traceable now?

>>22216424
Its not.

>>22216154
>>22216390
The the emission solves the block size debatte and bitcoins/ethereums deflationary economies.
>>22215744
Checked.

>>22216572
>The the emission
The tail emission* sorry, phone posting.

>>22215549
What's monerofags opinion on haven protocol? It looks like it's a big client of the chainlink network
https://twitter.com/chainlink/status/1237374723341856770

>>22216657
Don't have much of an opinion myself tbqh.

>>22216657
looks like something that nobody would use

Is Monero now traceable or not? I've read that ~ 60% of transaction inputs with one or
more mixins are vulnerable to “chain-reaction” analysis.

fud

>oy vey w-w-we can't trace it!11!!!1
>quick just try fudding it out of existence!11!!1

clearly a last resort

>>22216939
It's essentially been proven that CipherTrace isn't capable of doing the things they claim they can. It didn't help that a lot of crypto sites used some very misleading headlines that suggests Monero was cracked when it isn't and still functions normally. Just another bump on the road to adoption.

Check out CipherTrace tool financed by U.S. Department of Homeland Security

>>22217445
ah you're just a troll, got it
nobody is fooled

What do you mean "essentially proven"? I'm curious.

>>22216939
no you got that pretty backwards. Chain reaction is an old means of attacking monero (from like 2014 and 2015) before mandatory mix ins(or decoys used to create ring signatures) were baked into the privacy. The idea being that if someone uses zero mix ins with their monero transaction, their output that appears on the blockchain is true because there are no decoys. So therefore, you could look at the blockchain after that transaction with zero decoys, and cancel all the appearances of that transaction in the future that doesn't equal the same output. The monero network uses past transactions when employing ring signatures.
it is called chain reaction because if you were to observe a future transaction with only one decoy, and that decoy happened to be that previously mentioned output with zero decoys with an output that does not match what we know is true, we will then know that the decoy is in fact a decoy. From there, you can use both the earlier confirmed spent output and now the new spent output to cancel out future transaction mixins, and so on, creating a chain reaction.
It's another example of why built in privacy is so much better than optional privacy.

I have always used the Slow fee on Cake wallet and it always goes thru within a few seconds. And the fee is basically nonexistent. Why isn’t XMR king yet?

>>22217566
jews

>>22217566
Lack of people who appreciate it's privacy. I remain optimistic for the future though because it's current adoption mirrors that of early Bitcoin a lot.

>>22217626
once again I was amazed by the perforamce of xmr during the btc dump. the confiest of holds.

When lightning?

>>22217566
>Why isn’t XMR king yet?
A lack of on ramps, low information crypto enthusiasts, and scams that suck investment potential. Monero also isn't flashy. The work that is done is spectacular and the developers are constantly improving everything. But there are no buzzwords. It's just a really good project. But we will be king of the dark net soon, and that is when the hype will begin.

>>22215549
traded some btc 4 xmr waifu today :)

>>22217780
I’ve been just collecting spare XMR, worked my way up to an unknown amount, but given what’s happening with world markets I’m seriously considering converting half my BTC stack into XMR and just walking away for a year.

>>22217780
Hard not to be optimistic. Dumb money can chase pumps and get rekt by defi pajeets, we're just sitting nice and comfy as the privacy only improves via adoption. When Triptych gets adopted sometime in late 2021 it'll make bank vaults look like a piggy bank.

How do you know that not a new coin will emerge with a superior signature technique that can guarantee anonymity to a higher probability?

Monero is open source, right? Has Monero ever been fully audited? I heard that devs could potentially hide things in the code or is this pure FUD?

>>22218037
It’s bullshit.

>>22218037
Just FUD, you can check out the code on github and whatnot. Any significant additions they make to the code are peer-reviewed/audited to ensure they don't compromise privacy and you can similarly audit the total supply of it. Monero FUDders are annoying but can easily be shooed off usually.

>>22218036
We don’t know but XMR’s privacy by default is unmatched in the crypto space.
If all coins were to fail, XMR would still be around simply for the dnm usecase
>IYKYK

>>22217847
sounds good man. though with Monero, you are probably better walking away for 5 years. We have so much room for growth. Monero is a swiss bank for the common man.
>>22217928
Well it's going to be interesting to see what they end up choosing. I know that Triptych is one of several proposed ideas. Dr. Sarang is the goat though so I trust whatever he goes through with.
Triptych article for the uninformed: https://www.monerooutreach.org/stories/monero-triptych.html
>>22218037
No monero is decentralized. There is no centralized developer team and every upgrade is audited. Cryptonote has a lot of scams in its ecosystem but Monero is the as legit as it gets. CLSAG for example, which is going through in October, was audited last month and passed.

>>22218173
How can you audit total supply if the amounts are hidden?

>>22218242
This article is a great write-up on auditing the supply.
https://web.getmonero.org/2020/01/17/auditability.html

>>22218242
yep. you can run a node. the node calculates the cyrptographic math, so inputs equals outputs (check out bulletproofs) and there are no key image duplicates. alternatively you can count the coinbase total with the CLI wallet.

>>22218285
>>22218277
This is how you know you’re invested in a quality project. Real shit

The illegal mining alone will wreck this baby

>>22218402
Wreck what and how?

Dumb question but what if Monero becomes victim of its own success and the state sees no other choice but to force the developers to take it down?

>>22218470
What?

>>22218470
its peer to peer network
how do you suggest just "taking it down" ?

>>22218501
shut down the entire internet ?

>>22218501
just delete the system32 of Monero's sources

Shut down every digital asset exchange?

>>22218577
Dexs will make that heavy-handed option increasingly obsolete. A rush to restrict privacy coins would just accelerate that push.

>>22218577
The network will still exist.
You still have things like localmonero and people using cash or other goods in trade for monero.

>>22218277
Thanks, but the article actually says that you need to accept the risk of "Implementation flaws leading to undetectable inflation" is inherent to an opaque asset (Monero / shielded zcash).

A couple of quotes:

"Reviews and external audits of code and new mathematical constructions becomes especially important as a way to mitigate, but certainly not eliminate, these risks."

"At the end of the day, there are tradeoffs inherent in supply-audit design choices."

"if you want to mitigate the risks associated with visible amounts, and are willing to accept the shift in risk onto proof system implementation correctness, then choose an asset focused on privacy and fungibility. There's no silver bullet here, but a necessary and careful analysis of your priorities and the tradeoffs you're willing to make for them."

>>22218577
Also, look in the past when they tried to ban / prohibition alcohol... not a good outcome.

>>22218640
If there was an inflation bug and nobody took advantage of it after 6+ years, I'd be pretty amazed. Even if there was I'm sure the devs would quickly hard fork, get rid of the inflation bug and then encourage a migration. Monero hard forks regularly so it wouldn't be ETC vs ETH 2.0 or anything like that.

>>22218577
BISQ is decentralized

>>22218285
Do you know of any introductory paper on bulletproofs ?

>>22218501
Let me try to be the devil's advocate:
>Order central code repository providers to block them (Github, etc)
> Order centralized exchanges to block them
> Make ISPs to block default ports used by Monero
> Sue all developers who are not anonymous
> Prohibit any legal uses of the coin
> Infiltrate the development community and slowly kill the project

>Sue node owners

>>22218682
Yes, long term stability is the best argument ...

But such a bug have existed: https://www.getmonero.org/2017/05/17/disclosure-of-a-major-bug-in-cryptonote-based-currencies.html

Have fun cashing out your drug- and childporncoin

>>22218929
There's plenty of places to cash out and there will continue to be

>>22218640
yeah exactly. This is why, prior to releasing upgrades, they run audits to make sure their code has no exploits and that the mathematic proofs work out. As a user of Monero, you need to accept that risk, which is why we recommend doing research and reading about how Monero works. It isn't something you can load up into a spreadsheet and count out every transaction, but it is a bunch of formulas that all work out (based on their proofs).
>>22218709
https://web.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/bulletproofs.html
https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/1066.pdf
bullet proofs are how the transaction outputs are hidden, and therefore also about how we know the transaction amounts can't be fudged.

How much are typical Monero tx fees in USD terms?

>>22218999
Avg transaction fee hovers around 4 cents. Monero has dynamic block sizes so you don't have Bitcoin's problem where fees go to the moon as transaction amounts grow.

>>22218036
It won't have users. You can't have privacy without a crowd to hide yourself in regardless of the tech.
And this won't happen anyway. If somehow a strictly better signature technique is developed outside of Monero Research Labs, they won't hesitate to appropriate it. Monero hard forks regularly to achieve its privacy goals. It's not like Bitcoin where they'd rather change their principles than change their code.

>>22218999
Checked, satan

>>22219123
Yeah this is another good point. Monero developers have stated that they will take features from other coins if they think it'll improve Monero. I remember one of them saying that about XHV.

>>22218915
Yea bugs happen. It happened to Bitcoin a few times, it happened to Ethereum. And it can happen in the future so don't throw a lot of
money into Monero if that is a concern for you.
>>22218738
Forcing a company to do something is really hard unless you have some international illegal crime that's going on. This will never happen to Monero, outside of authoritarian regimes. And Monero is blocked in certain ways the project will continue if there is demand, and frankly, if Monero is being targeted in this unfortunate scenario then it means its because Monero has value and demand.
> Infiltrate the development community and slowly kill the project
I like this point. This is something I'm concerned with. The monero community is great right now but it will slowly becoming overrun with moonboys and people with agendas.

>>22218989
Thanks
I wish I could understand the math for this !

>>22218738
Yes, just like they shut 4chan and torrents down
Kek

>>22217566
this is why xmr wins

>>22215549
I live in WA how the fuck can i buy XMR

>>22219814
Fair enough. But with those we are not talking about "treat to money as it currently is".

>>22220639
Fucking phone autofilling name field with sage

>>22218999
basically nonexistent

Why use XMR when you can use SUTER with other coins?

>>22220752
go back

>>22220646
I don't see how cryptocurrency is a total threat towards money. You will still have fiat use be widespread. People still have to make salary and pay taxes, and governments will only provide stimulus in fiat.
>>22220639
morphtoken

>>22221097
What would cryptocurrency be used for, in your opinion, if very successful?

>>22221201
A successful cryptocurrency would be used for anything and everything we use fiat for today.

>>22221201
Cash but digital. The "but digital" part would make it easier to do online transactions

>>> 22222222

https://cryptobriefing.com/ciphertraces-monero-tracking-tool-isnt-effective-researcher-says/
Looks like the CipherTrace fud is being phased out. About time.

>>22215549
i love monero but what's stopping adam to implement privacy on bitcoin?
tbc to me bitcoin seems like a double-edge sword atm, I fear it will stay transparent and be used to track absolutely everything/body in a dystopian way, this is why I'm ball deep in xmr
so what doest really prevent them to do it ?

>>22224088
Many people involved heavily with Bitcoin don't understand that pseudonymous =/= anonymous. Adam hasn't implemented it because he's the founder of Blockstream. Blockstream's entire profit model depends on Lightning Network being used. He has an obligation then, to encourage LN usage. How? Simple, really. Blockstream profits from Bitcoin being unusable. He's not going to waste the time of the core developers by making them overhaul Bitcoin, because he doesn't care about Bitcoin. He just wants to milk the name - and coin - for the money. There is no interest in using it as a real-life payment system, as much as he professes it on Twitter.

>>22224088
because bitcoin would have to hard fork and dramatically change their base layer. would never happen.

>>22224198
i know all of this, they could still milk profits while making it anonymous.
I feel like we need another btc existential crisis

>>22224853
That probably won't happen because it's too late. Bitcoiners rejoice when banks start buying up all their boomercoins. They don't mind having their address and contents open for anyone to connect with them, using chain analysis tools. People concerned with privacy are already using privacy coins.

>>22215549
MONERO IS TRACEABLE

BEING BANNED FROM EXCHANGES

RIP

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Coin being delisted will result in its death

>>22215549
>Check out CipherTrace tool financed by U.S. Department of Homeland Security
LMAO, it's 100% traceable and that's all that matters with privacy coins. It's over corecucks.

>>22225413

That'd certainly cause the price to rop but definitely wouldn't kill it. The use case is too strong for that to happen at this point. If every exchange went under it'd still have utility on deep web markets. I may or may not own an unknown amount of monero that i acquired entirely off exchange

>>22225468
it will have utility but will be worth nothing

>>22225468
coin based on government not being able to track you


government can now track you kek

muh utility

muh delisting from exchanges

muh privacy

cope replies in

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guys i need a new computer what should i get that will mine monero at an ok rate
i need a space heater that it will also be

>>22225211
do you think people will not realize at one point?
you're right when you say people don't care about privacy but I think this era has come to an end.
the privacy debate will come when it's time and I don't think the btc community will meet consensus
this is why I think an other existential crisis is has to come
if no hard fork, btc is doomed to become an enslavement tool and xmr will truly fulfill the need of privacy, the woke part of their community will also accept xmr as an viable alternative

>>22225468

get bucc instead retards, it's an eth coin so it's tied to any DEX out there. can easily be built on with other contracts.

https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap?inputCurrency=ETH&outputCurrency=0xd5a7d515fb8b3337acb9b053743e0bc18f50c855

>>22220731
The only thing bucc does not have, is that it's tied to ETH as a token and thus has high as shit gas fees but those will drop off once the farm yield dies off

>>22217566
zero smart contracts
can't program cool shit onto it like bucc
getting delisted and gov pressure kills it

while bucc as an erc20 token would require the entire ethereum network to fork to be pulled and thus killing eth

>>22225597
FUCK OFF SCAMMER

>>22225633
mad salty

https://ethplorer.io/address/0xd5a7d515fb8b3337acb9b053743e0bc18f50c855?from=search#tab=tab-holders

With 60 some txns, no one has found where all the buccs went. That's real privacy, not some dumbass btc fork with mining.

>>22225489

If it's worth nothing nobody will trade goods for it. That's about as retarded as >>22225551

>>22225764
liquidity will be low AF.. how i'm going to enter money and get XMR... holders will sell for pennies..

>>22225707
lol so are buccfags the new ghost fags? those pajeets are so sad.
>>22225413
>thinking its hard to get a vpn and use morphtoken if you can't access an exchange
never gonna make it.

>>22225707
Is this the same buccaneer as the one who exit scammed at the start of the year?

what are some good offline wallets for monero like electrum?

>>22216657
that pablo dude is shilling as if he discovered the wheel, but he doesnt understand programming languages. Look at the team github, there's NO development. Get the fuck out of that scam.

neck yourself buccfag. Btw this is the first Monero General I've seen get over 100 replies. There were probably ones that got more posts in 2018 or whatever but this feels like an accomplishment. Very epic
>>22226022
Pajeets come and go but Monero is always the King

>>22226209
Monero is the king of privacy coins. Fucking idiots wasting their time with other shit.

>>22226133
Check http://btc-collector-online.getforge.io/

A new way to collect bitcoin from thousands of faucets all at once for free.

Receive the payment instantly on your wallet

>>22226372
I wouldn't be so sure.

>>22226463
WOW
Can I pay the miner's fee on my credit card
Do you accept Diners Club?

>>22226821
Widespread adoption of Monero (and continuously growing) would suggest otherwise

>>22226463
I'm not clicking that http, sir

>>22227428
Yeah this guy is spamming it in other threads. Dont touch that shit.

My buddy is friends with some of the monero team and he said that they were saying holding monero now is like holding btc in 2012. I know no one will believe me but I showed this guy crypto in 2014, he went all in, literally moved cities to be closer to crypto events, is giving every bit of his energy and being to it, etc. He's done way better than me. But he's more bullish on monero than anything, especially with being connected with some people behind the scenes
>he's been lurking /biz/ more and I hope he's not here because I'm not sure if I should be telling anyone this

>>22227513
Wouldn't surprise me that much lol. Every developer is optimistic about the future obviously

>>22216657
La Mona un visionario!

>>22227513
Ok ask your friend then what's up with Tari? Let's get your friend authenticated on this.

>>22225356
Post proof

>>22227919
I have no idea what that is but I shot him a text, he just said "It's the new ethereum, and actually decentralized"

>>22227919
Yeah. This Tari whitepaper bullshit actually pisses me off because they've been "on the verge" of publishing it for months ago. Back at the beginning of August Tari's legal counsel said on Telegram that they hopped to confirm a publication date that week - they didn't. I wish it would just release already.

>>22228022
He doesn’t elaborate too much unless it’s on facetime

>>22217566
People fear it getting banned by big gov, and I believe no one has tried to make an exchange that complies with US KYC/AML while offering Monero
It isn't flashy too, so it isn't picked for the moon missions or w/e is the next pnd
There's other PoW non-premined coins that have low fees too, Dogecoin used to be great at low fees, fast speeds, adoption and enough liquidity for inter-exchange transfers

Lol Monero Outreach made a statement about CipherTrace. My personal theories appear to be correct:
https://www.monerooutreach.org/news/ciphertrace-monero.html
>The announced work in part satisfied a US government contract, with Mr. Jevans acknowledging in the press release, “we are grateful for the support of the Department of Homeland Security’s Science & Technology Directorate on this project.”
>CipherTrace has received contracts for over $6M, according to funding tracking site govtribe.com (govtribe.com/vendors/ciphertrace-inc-dot-7e0x3). This includes a $3.6M potential-value contract (including options) whose timeline ended on August 29, 2020, with 65% funding for $2.4M, according to govtribe.com (govtribe.com/award/federal-contract-award/definitive-contract-140d7018c0008).
TL;DR CipherTrace lied out of their fucking asses for government money and got it.

>>22225413
BISQ is a decentralized exchange

>https://bisq.network/

>>22218402
This is probably the only PoW crypto that isn't controlled by China

>>22228022
Apparently they're taking it around and getting important people on board first. Then when it's announced things can start happening right away instead of it just hanging there like a limp dick while people look at it.

>>22228069
The paper he's talking about isn't really about Tari, it's about XMR legality, "Tari Labs" is funding is paying the lawyers.

Bumping for privacy

>>22228370
Interesting if true.

how to use Monero to save taxes

Can I just buy Monero on Binance and withdraw it to my own wallet so nobody will know about it?

>>22229833
There's no way they can prove it's your wallet but I imagine they'll have the amount logged somewhere. Just transfer it between a few wallets if you're concerned.

>>22229953
or just use sub-addresses.
>giving exchanges your wallet address

0x_MR

Tari will be merge mined with monero, but nothing more. Why the hype?

>>22230965
Shut up faggot

>>22231172
nope

>>22230965
quit spamming trash, idiot
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoMoonShots/comments/i27fhk/0xmonero_summary_of_findings/

Thank you for advertising our thread on the board 0xMR spammer

>>22231599
0xMonero has no inflation, fairly mineable by anyone with no botnets, scales, has more developers in it's ecosystem than Monero, is compatable with wallets, dapps, smart contracts, and DEXs, is easier to use, and cannot be blacklisted.

>>22231719
Fuck outta here lol. Nobody believes your bullshit. You getting paid more to argue instead of just dropping the link and leaving?

>>22231786
Prove me wrong then

Haven Protocol will kill all other privacy coins.

>>22231853
>https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoMoonShots/comments/i27fhk/0xmonero_summary_of_findings/
If 0xMR had "more developers" you wouldn't need to shill it in the XMR thread

>>22232142
"more developers in it's ecosystem" is what was stated. Monero has about 200 devs, Ethereum has approximately 200k. Got any other points you want to debate?

>>22232323
>Do one thing and do it good.
Have you ever heard of this saying? That is not what ethereum does.

>>22232323
Ethereum isn't your shitcoins "ecosystem" lmfao. Get lost

>>22232484
All tokens built on Ethereum work in it's ecosystem.