/biz/ - Business & Finance

No halbe des english por foavre m8

Where we going boys? Malta? Portugal? Germany? Isle of Man? Gibralta? Other?

>>22023898
It's not confirmed is it? Just as I start to fucking make it. Right, off to portugal

>>22023898
40% is still very lenient pay your taxes you nazi anarchists or move to somalia. refugees are literally being forced to live off barely 80 pounds a day because 60% of your theft (aka. property) is not enough for you

>>22024005
No where.

You cant move and avoid it. the prvius thread said, if you made the gain (as most of us have) regardless of moving later, we are all screwed

>>22024052
Portugal has really high income tax rates if you ever plan on having a job, plus capital gains and dividends are high if you plan on investing crypto money back into more traditional investments

>>22024052
No just rumours. Probably deliberately leaked to gauge opinion. Also one of the 2 articles I've read on it implied the rumoured rise is to target CGT on second homes, so decent chance CGT doesn't go up for us or if it does it might not be to 40%.

>>22023898
JESUS CHRIST WHY THE FUCK DO THEY ALLOW STOCKS AND SHARES ISA WHERE THEY PAY NO FUCKING TAX

>This means a person who holds exchanges tokens is liable to pay UK tax if they are a UK resident and carry out a transaction with their tokens which is subject to UK tax.

>IF they are a UK resident AND CARRY OUT A TRANSCATION with their tokens which is subject to UK tax.

sweet, how long does it take to become a Portuguese citizen?

>>22024052
Don't see this happening. Tories won't want a "war on the middle class" narrative developing

>>22024088
only if you trade tho

>>22024086
I'll ask them if I can pay my 40% in BTC and when they say no I'll tell them to fuck off then

Come to Portugal, it's one of the only safe places in Europe anyway.

>>22024088
It won't go up to 40% this year anyway, so if you have realised gains it will still be at 20%. If your hodling still too then you'll want to relocate for the following tax year when it does go to 40%.

>>22024005
Come to Portugal, it's one of the only safe places in Europe anyway.

So what is the best course of action then? Has anyone actually acted out on these hypothetical 'Just move to IoM, or Gib bro!'?

>>22024156
You're kidding right? Sunak has shown himself left of Corbyn so far.

>>22024154
what confuses me is the wording. they say hmrc considers crypto as a chargeable asset if its capable of being owned and has a value that CAN be realised. This makes me think you dont necessarily have to trade it for it to be subject to CGT, rather that it just has to be on the market.

>>22024207
>It won't go up to 40% this year anyway, so if you have realised gains it will still be at 20%. If your hodling still too then you'll want to relocate for the following tax year when it does go to 40%.

so link is crashing back to sub $1 on april 5, 2021

>>22024086
>40% is still very lenient pay your taxes you nazi anarchists or move to somalia.

Get all the niggers to fuck off back to Somalia first and then I'll consider paying 40%.

>refugees are literally being forced to live off barely 80 pounds a day

How about we RPG the boats before they reach the shore? That'll be cheaper than paying the ungrateful cunts 80 quid a day.

You could also cash out directly into gold and sell gold for cash without ID.

You could also go the classic route of setting up a company in Cyprus or something, offer "IT consulting" and take your own crypto as payment.

>>22024298
"chargable assets" are just assets you pay cap gains on WHEN YOU SELL them. no transactions -> no taxes on chargable assets

Surely this would take place in the tax year starting April 2021? Not immediately right, if it were to happen

>>22024345
oh yeah, shoulder the liquidity problem onto someone else in exchange for literal gold, amazing idea

>>22024372
so if you exchange your assets for services as a uk resident you don't need to pay taxes on the fiat value of the service?

>>22024005
I've always had my eyes on New Zealand. Isle of Man if that doesn't work out.

>>22024372
That wont work.
Because you as the individual would be transferring that crypto to the company, which is the taxable event.

The best solution is to cash out before 31st March 2021.

The 40% Tax hike will be for NEXT YEAR

>>22024393
Correct
>>22024438
No, that guy is completely wrong. see above

>>22024220
Invest in an accountant and lawyer as soon as your online money is getting to "replace your job" levels.

>>22024390
sweet so why were so many cunts saying even after years of living abroad hmrc will still come after you

It’s for 2nd Homes only OP. Which is good, because landlords are the greediest fucking bastards ever and I’m a capitalist. They wouldn’t do it for trading / investment gains, as it deincentivises the market.

More people owning houses = better, as mortgages are usually cheaper than rent. = more money to spend in the economy.

I will be the first to leave if they hike CGT to 40% on Trading gains

>>22024566
>It’s for 2nd Homes only OP.
We don't know that. The article in the independent used that as an example only. The daily mail article implied the increase was to target second home owners but we can't assume we won't also get a rise.

>>22024393
>>22024523
so the govt can't retroactively enact any changes in cgt rates?

>not laundering your money
Do bongs really..

Nice clickbait.
>UK CGT "rumoured" to be increasing.

>>22024557
Because they already made taxable transactions, even if they move HMRC will want this. Saying that, it would be taxed at 20% so nothing has actually changed for those people.

>>22024658
The government does whatever the fuck it wants, but usually changes are made on a going forward basis. The only relevant rate is what capital gains are in the year the transaction happens.

These fuckers better not hike it to 40%. I need just 2 more years to leave this god forsaken shithole island

>>22024658
>so the govt can't retroactively enact any changes in cgt rates?
Well they can, but they won't. No one would invest in the UK again if governments randomly apply new rates retroactively.

>>22024724
>what capital gains are in the year where are u planning to go?

>>22023898
https://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/capital-gains-tax-what-is-it-and-do-we-really-need-it/a620760
Oh how times change

>>22024705
so the only way to make it without hmrc raping you is to buy a coin and just hold it for years and then cash out abroad, pretty shitty desu

>>22024658
That would be suicidal
They can do it, but the city would invite them around for a polite conversation without tea and biscuits

Man, it sure is great to be American today!

>>22024086
rich fat cats with more money than sense should be getting taxed 40% yes, but wagies trying to claw their way out of poverty are going to get fucked by this and it's bullshit.

>>22025206
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the goal

>Laugh at Britbongs: The Thread

>>22025206
(((They))) will always find a way to avoid paying these taxes, they are only for the goyim

>>22025206
Please, to socialists the fact that you had any surplus income to invest makes you a rich fat cat. The only acceptable use of excess funds is to consoom.

>>22023898
>""""Conservative"""" government
kek

>>22023898
>paying 40 percent to that fucking government

Oh God and I thought what I have to pay to mine was bad for what I get in return

>>22024750
>>22025077
yeah but what's stopping them from fucking over the little guy? they won't touch big companies but some fuck expat trying to avoid tax? good luck

Guys apparently as soon as you land in IoM as a Brit you can just claim tax residency, is it really that simple? Just land there before the tax year starts and bobs your uncle before the 2021 golden bull?

>>22025682
i'm assuming you also have to NOT be a tax resident of the mainland when you sell. the rules are pretty strict if you spent more than 3 months of the tax year there.

>>22024005
Hungary and Monaco are very much in play.
Germany? Kek. Try to hodl for a fucking year.
You might as well live in Belgium or the Netherlands then. Switzerland is a lot better too.

>>22025248
at the time of slavery, slaves consider themselves average people working an honest day

at the time of indentured servitude, servants consider themselves average people working an honest day

at the time of 40% income taxes, council taxes, VAT, employees consider themselves average people working an honest day

>>22025682

>>22025903

>>22024247
Nah, different times mid corona. No other option at the peak of the crisis.

>>22024247
sunak:
pajeet in streets
homo in the sheets

>>22024495
>The best solution is to cash out before 31st March 2021.

...or leave the country before the 31st of march 2021

>>22026595
sunak:
shitting in the streets
shitting on /biz/ NEETs

Fuck the tories

>>22024154
>>22024390
What, so I can buy a shitcoin with fiat, hold it for a year then cash out abroad without paying hmrc... yet if I buy a shitcoin with another crypto coin and do the same, hold it for a year and cash out abroad I have to pay tax? Or am I getting it wrong? Cause that makes no sense to me.

>>22028556
>yet if I buy a shitcoin with another crypto
the hmrc allegedly considers buying a shitcoin with another crypto as selling the 'other crypto'.

>imagine unironically being an anglo
I used to feel bad being born in an irrelevant middle of the road country, but the older I get the more I realize living in a low key country like this is amazing.

>0% capital gains tax if you hold for a year, low taxes in general
>no nigs, no muslims, basically white ethnostate
>decent salaries compared to low cost of living
>major european destinations are only a short flight away
God I love being a Slovak.

>>22028599
So basically if you ever traded crypto in the U.K. you’re fucked even after moving away/losing your residency to cash out abroad?

>>22024086
fuck off cunt. you are a waste of human flesh

>>22028710
no because once you're abroad you can sell your 'other crypto' without owning taxes in the uk
those guys don't owe taxes because they sell their shitcoins abroad, they owe taxes on the trades they made in the uk. they're afraid that cashing out to a regular bank makes the hmrc notice them and hunt them down for the taxes they were due but did not pay while being uk tax residents

>>22027342
When you say 'cash out', another thing to consider is whether you want to sell-then-rebuy March 2021 in order to lock-in CGT at a lower rate.

Lot's of traders do this in order to minimise tax liability, but it's not without pitfalls. If you flip your coins early to lock-in the tax bill then it's all gravy if they go up in price the next year. If they dump, you're in trouble though. You're paying tax on gains you no longer have.

What would work in this situation if one were willing to 'bend' the law would be what's known as a 'dark pool' exchange. In a 'dark pool' exchange, trades aren't public, but you could cryptographically prove you've made one should you chose not to 'forget' that you'd done so.

There's no project that's made a decentralised dark pool exchange yet, but there's one that was well on the way before they repositioned themselves as the premier provider of wrapped bitcoins. It's Ren. Yep, I'm shilling Ren...

>>22023898
Am I the only one not thaaaat bothered? I’ve made decent profits and will still be massively up post-taxes. Greed is a sin.

That said I can’t be fucked to calculating my shitcoin trades before I went all in on link. I’ll print off my Binance trade history to give in along with my bank statements for some HMRC wagie to figure out if they come knocking.

>>22028809
>nothing wrong with the shitty government to steal 40% of your money so they can give away gibs to niggers and single mothers

No, fuck off.

>>22028859
sssh let the cucks pay the robbers or they'll start toughing up

>>22028748
Yeah exactly so if you ever made trades in the U.K. you’re fucked even if you cash out after a year abroad, since hmrc considers a crypto to crypto trade as you “selling” the crypto. Right? Won’t they come after you for not paying the taxes you made oh those trades while in the U.K.?

>>22028949
*on

Hey motherfuckers. Three words and I will say em once: ROLL-OVER RELIEF.

>>22024086
Im an expat in UK and live comfortably on £40 pounds per day including rent bills food etc. If they get that much in welfare, brits are really chucked beyond repair

>>22028949
Only if they catch you. If you're withdrawing into a non-british bank account and spending overseas, they won't ever have a reason to look.

>>22029016
How does it apply to crypto assets?

Just buy gold, CGT&VAT free.

>>22029066
>If you're withdrawing into a non-british bank account and spending overseas, they won't ever have a reason to look.
Interesting. Some other anon in the previous thread was convinced the banks of whichever country you cash out into will alert HMRC even years after moving and losing residency.

>>22029078
buy gold with crypto where?

Fuck this shitty rigged system.

>>22029016
thats for businesses

come to switzerland, frens

>>22029152
??? You don't buy PM as well?

>>22029200
i havent with crypto

>>22029174
and i assume once you have a business you're doing the trades with, it's impossible to just move and pay 0% tax in the end on all your gains, like you can doing that as an individual, aye?

>>22023898
Every lad in this thread claiming they’ll move to Portugal had better fucking do it. Governments need to know that they exist to serve us.

>>22023898
Hahahahaha

>>22029120
As long as you're justifying it to their tax authorities they don't give a fuck
Assuming of course that your original cost basis is low. If you're saying you started out with a million $ in bitcoin they're going to want to know where that came from, but that's tripping money laundering safeguards rather than tax evasion.

>>22024086
If you cant afford to live off £80 a day while in a free hotel then you are too fucking stupid to exist

>>22023898
please stop being retarded and do simple research before getting all freaked out by this.
you can calculate what you owe here: https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-shares/work-out-your-gain
You have a £12,500 tax free allowance, so if your trades have not amounted to this amount within the tax year you are fine.
You can also claim looses too that go towards tax reductions.
They wouldn't even think about raising capital gains for stocks and shares as most of the establishment own vast portfolios. And the raising of CGT would discourage people from investing in British companies.

Any Swiss anons? Interested to hear about your set up. I’d take 1% wealth tax over getting rammed with 45% any day

Is it possible to cash out from BTC ATMs anonymously and tax free? And then launder the money

>>22024130
If it goes over a flat rate of 28% for everything they know that people are just going to find ways to not pay it
That's the people with actual money, random fucks with 5 figures will get fucked of course

>>22029272
I honestly don't get why moving out of your highly taxed North-Western European (quasi-)socialist shithole ISN'T a major goal for anyone on this website. If you've found your way to 4chan, surely you can make some online cash if you give yourself 5 years to learn while saving up cash from a regular 9 to 5. Then lawyer up and GTFO.

>>22023898
Britbongs, won’t you do what you must?

>>22023898
do we really need another thread for this?

nobody cares about you bongs

>>22029272
>>22029487
am seriously considering going there next month and looking at places. of course the zero tax on crypto is the biggest attraction but also the cost of living and cheap property compared to the UK is another significant reason.

>>22029568
you can probably move to portugal with $1m and live like a king. here $1m gets you shit.

>>22029407
yeah, just say you won it gambling.

>>22029620
need to provide receipts idiot

>>22024086
That’s 2400 pounds a month, in the us if you’re on welfare you get 300 dollars a month, unless youre popping out babies right and left for a welfare check, those refugees should be thankful

>>22029568
Don't forget the weather. Just get some online income up and running, get yourself 1500 euros per month doing freelancing work while saving up 6 months worth of living costs while working your 9 to 5 in England. Then move to Portugal and ramp up your online activities.

>>22029703
Do you honestly believe they're going to go to the effort of proving that you won it gambling?

didn't read never selling

Cant believe im gonna have to give my Link stack over to Bojo.

>>22029727
Typically you get about £300 a month here plus cost of housing
If a couple you get slightly more, plus there's other stuff depending on circumstances/children/health etc
But getting £80 a day to just exist is incomprehensible

>>22029792
enjoy the massive income tax and social security rates in Portugal I guess

>>22029407
to do it totally anon it would take you years with a large amount of btc. plus, there's cameras on 9/10 of them and soon enough we'll all have our iris's uploaded so fuck that. but, i've traveled around asia for 2 years and used btc atms to survive. no problems

>>22029487
i have just shy of 3m just now, my job is pretty comfy so i don't care to leave it just now, however if the next golden bullrun puts me at >10mm i'm completely fucking off from this place. don't know where. probably would vagabond for a few years, but fuck living in the uk post 2025. holy fuck have you seen the absolute state of it just now? yeah fuck it. no chance.

>>22029792
Currently have ~$500k, hoping that will be at least $1m by EOY. Then I hope to be able to earn from staking. I have a decent bag of bzrx and another project that is in ico phase but is going to be huge. between them i should be making a couple hundred dollars a week to get me by

>>22029189
can I live in the countryside

>>22029189
whats the cost of living like in switz? house prices? crypto tax laws? income/capital gains tax?

>>22029909
>>/biz/thread/S18073066

>>22030165
How about here

>>22030228
heavenly

>>22029792
>>22024005
>>22024052
>>22024216
>>22029272
What do you do when you get to Portugal?

Im gonna just pay my taxes and hope the 40% doesnt happen
T. unironic, rather have some money left instead of getting find 200% what I owe in tax each year

>>22025392
Crypto gain is not the same as normal business gains. I might turn $1000 into $100,000 but that's very rare and likely wont happen again. Is 100k enough for the rest of my life? No.

>>22030302
>double down on your online business
>increase your savings rate
>upgrade your lifestyle if you so choose
>enjoy the sun
>fuck hot girls/cheap hookers
>read books

>>22030302
>make $3k/mo in London
>spend over 2/3rds of it to live in a shitty apartment in shit weather
>make $3k/mo in Portugese countryside
>spend only half of it (savings rate of 50%) and enjoy a lifestyle upgrade to boot

>>22030393
How does any of that help with capital gains tax on crypto though

>>22030506
Yes sounds gr8

>>22023898
>Double CGT when most countries are lowering it to attract investors
I swear to God, we have the stupidest people in power, almost as if they are deliberately wanting to sink the country.

>>22030516
here's what i plan on doing
go to portugal
rent a place for a year
cash out ~12k
live on that for a year
apply for portugese residency
cash out after 1 year
buy portugese property
hope hmrc dont come looking for my uniswap shitcoin trades from the previous 1+ year

no doubt i'll get the cucks on here telling me i'll get anally raped by hmrc but its a risk im willing to take.

>>22023898
the 40% hike is only for selling 2nd homes and buy-to-let mortgages

stop spreading fake news

>>22030617
Sounds good m8 might bump into you out there

bump

>>22031729
the yanks and the spics are about to take over for the night

>>22031894
>yanks and the spics

they are one and the same