/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>21822794
>taxed once for holding
welp, my day's ruined

>>21822794
just let a nigerian warlord handle all your trades

>>21822794
>So far it looks like your taxed once for holding, then taxed twice for cashing out.
No, the answer is that you don't understand how this works and need to hire a CPA before you cash out anything significant.

>>21822794
No, thats how the elites keep you down.
But sure, protest against the rich paying more taxes, like the good cuck you are.

I don't know either.

>>21822794
You cash out money and give them 30% of that. More like 40% to play it safe, if they have a problem with what they got from you, they send you a letter telling you to fix it.

>>21822794
>your taxed once for holding

You pay tax for crypto-to-crypto and crypto-to-fiat, not fiat-to-crypto.

>>21822794
>So far it looks like your taxed once for holding, then taxed twice for cashing ou
You're literally just taxed once, whenever you realize capital gains. crypto to crypto is taxable.

>>21822936
I don't protest the rich at all.

Daily reminder Mutts can never be free
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/revocation-or-denial-of-passport-in-case-of-certain-unpaid-taxes

I fucked up the OP. Made a correction.

>>21822794
>Just gonna give an attempted kick off on this.
>How the hell do you deal with the IRS?
>So far it looks like your taxed once for holding, then taxed a second time for cashing out. Is there really any point to invest unless you can make over a million?

>>21823127
Where are you getting "taxed for holding" from? There's no tax for purchasing and sitting, only for selling.

>>21822794
Trading crypto is treated similar to stock investing for US tax purposes. The sale of crypto, whether to cash/fiat or another crypto, is treated as a capital sale, with the gain from the sale (sale price less original cost) being taxed at capital gain rates.

If held for more than 12 months, its long-term and taxed at a lower rate. If less then 12 months, its short term and taxed at your regular marginal tax rate.

There is no tax on acquiring the crypto or simply holding it. The sale triggers the taxable event.

As others have said, check with a CPA, especially if you are working with sizable amounts.

unless you're profiting more than like $5k just dont pay taxes

>>21822936
Why the fuck would anyone on /biz/ protest against the rich?
Maybe you’re thinking of /pol/

>DURR LOOK AT ME IM PAYING TAX HURR DURRRR GOTTA PAY TO TO KEEP THE TAX MAN AWAY HEHE HURRRRRRR

>>21823127
Kys dude we fucking told you already that you don’t remotely understand how this works and need to hire an accountant or tax lawyer before you cash out.
You don’t get taxed for buying or holding crypto, you get taxed when you use that crypto or trade it for something else, and the value of said crypto is more than what you initially paid for it.

>>21822794
Taxed once when cashing out. Exactly the same as buying a regular stock in the S&P500.

Price cashed out for - priced paid for = capital gain. It's not complicated brainlets.

Thanks anons now I have to amend tax returns

>>21822794
Most of the advice in this thread is a good starting point. Also, get acquainted with the concept of “good faith best effort” just in case someone comes knocking in the form of an IRS notice.

Should I contact the IRS now or should I wait till I file next year and submit amended returns?

>>21822794
What happens if you get hacked and you've lost control of it / someone stole your crypto?

Can you declare it as a loss ??

>>21822971
This

>>21822991
You are not taxed like this at all. Youre basically only taxed on your net gains once theyre fiat.

>>21824380
Do they have any kind of insurance we can get to safeguard against this?

>>21824665
I can't find the thread right now but, sometime last week an anon made a thread about how is he going to track uniswap transactions for tax purposes and the idea came out about a "double tax" so that's were I got this thought from.

>>21824380
Yes, you can claim the loss as long as you are able to show/prove that the crypto was actually stolen. May get flagged by the IRS, but the burden of proof on tax evasion falls on the IRS.

>>21822794
There has been too much violence, too much pain.
None here are without sin, but I have an honorable compromise: Just pay your taxes.
Cash out your crypto, get an accountant, print out your info from exchanges, report all your gains, and I spare your life.
Just pay your taxes. I will give you safe passage in the threads.
Just pay your taxes and there will be an end to the horror.
I await your answer. You have one more post to decide.

>>21822794
Just keep track of your trades. It isn't rocket science. You are taxed only on gains. You are only taxed "twice" if the bitcoin you received in exchange for your shitcoin increases in value before you exchange it for fiat

>>21822794
>Taxed for holding

You are fucking stupid

FRY soon on GECKO

>>21822794
Eastern Europeans have it easy. Actually has anyone here tried to send 5000$+ to your bank once a day to see if they'll freeze your account? Supposedly anything more than 4899$ is pushing it and they start inspecting you.

>>21822971
Honestly I hope it's just this if I ever cash out a significant amount.

>Anon's trial for tax fraud

>Prosecutor: Anon is it true that you bought Chainlink at $1 in 2018 and then sold it at $750 in 2021?

>Anon: Yes.

>Prosecutor: Can you explain what a Chainlink is?

>Anon gives a detailed response about Oracle's, decentralized applications, and blockchain...

>Prosecutor: How can someone who's smart enough to know all that, not know how to pay their taxes?

>Anon: Uh...

>A jury comprised of twelve seething boomers shake their heads in disgust.

>GUILTY

>>21826083
Plot twist
>All jurors are PNK holders
>Sirs you are not guilty

God, you guys must be making a killing in this bull market for a shit thread like this to exist. Good job lads, I guess you've made it.

>>21824665
You are absolutely taxed on crypto to crypto. Don’t get in trouble when you can avoid it

Dunno why you people have trouble understanding crypto-to-crypto. A trade is simply SELLING something to BUY something else.

>>21823214
If I invest 12k into crypto and then cash out 14k are they going to tax 35% of that 14k or 2k?

>>21822920
>No, the answer is that you don't understand how this works and need to hire a CPA before you cash out anything significant.

>>21823268
What the fuck am I gonna do with 5k

>>21826480
2k

>>21822920
What if I've never reported any trades? Do I get a tax lawyer instead?

>>21822794
hire a CPA dumbass

>>21826480

lmao they're not taxing 35% of anything. You brainlets should really look up how tax brackets work. If you're like most of the wagies on this board making 20k a year you aren't going to pay anything on a 2k profit, git gud

I have 300 transaction on my metamask wallet.

>buy coin 1
>price goes way up
>use coin 1 to buy coin 2
>coin 2 goes way up
>repeat 100 times
>???

I have no idea what the fuck I'm gonna do come taxes. Are there any free software to scan your ether wallet and just figure it out how much you owe?

>>21822794

These threads are either trolling retarded or both. I will fight fire with fire using my own retardation.
>traded crypto for 3 years
>swing all the time
>go to HR block to buy the insurance package where they cover something like up to 50k if the IRS hammer comes down on you
>tax man understands me buying and selling, doesn’t understand me sending crypto to friends, but whatever counts it as a loss
>”since you have held in an exchange for over a year that’s long term holdings”
>only ever pay on making profit from total amount over time and if you take out of exchange (probably also works for withdrawing to your bank account and reinvesting in another exchange)

Basically my experience is in the US you are only taxed if you pull out entirely before the year is up and you have made more than your initial investment. Swinging doesn’t create taxable events, and you could probably pull out into a USD tied stable coin to avoid taxes and claim is as holding your money in the exchange

>>21826480
You are only taxed on the gain from the sale. The gain is the sale proceeds less your cost basis. So in your example, 2K.

Taxes are for cucks lmfao

>>21826651
I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE TRIBE AND HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT A CPA WAS BEFORE THIS THREAD, FUCK!

>>21826815
>>go to HR block to buy the insurance package where they cover something like up to 50k if the IRS hammer comes down on you
this will never ever pay out
>HR block
sigh
sigh
realistically there is no hope for you guys
op thinks he's taxed when he buys
how did the iq here drop so much
are you all drug addicts?

>>21827626
It wasn't meant to be taxed when I buy it was taxed if what I brought went up in price on what I was holding.

>>21827683
no, that's not how it works

>>21826876
Imagine saying that to the judge lmfao

>>21822794
You clearly don't understand capital gains taxes.

>>21826250
Good thinking If I ever have problem with the tax man I'll take the issue to Kleros Court.

Just going to drop this here.

>>21827757
so many of these kids thinking they don't have to pay taxes, or won't get caught laundering it through monero
going to be an awful lot of anons getting butt blasted in a few years

>>21826789
how much total did you start with
how much total do you have now
pay tax on the gain

>>21822794
Gov prints infinite amounts of money. He still pays the jews. Lol

>>21826789
Zerion can import all your trades on Uniswap.

so here’s a question for our taxpros, in the US the standard deduction is about 10k and the 0% long term gains bracket is good for up to ~39k. If I cash out this proportion of short and long term gains is it possible to get 49k tax free each year provided I have no other income?

Wait so let me get this straight:

>Use $5k USD to buy crypto
>decide I need the $5k usd to purchase something
>Sell crypto back to fiat
>I now owe the IRS $150 for that trade even though it didnt go up or down

Really niggas?

>>21828357
why would you owe them $150 if your crypto didnt gain anything?

>>21828150

$10k
$100k

Do I have to show records or is it like dude just trust me. Haven't sold the majority tho.

>>21828259
any non-deductible short term gains will be taxed starting at 10-12% federal plus any state

>>21828408
nice dude, what did you invest in? one big HODL or swinging?

>>21828389
Because trading crytpo to fiat is a taxable event.

>>21828408
90k short term gains puts you around the 22 or 24% bracket depending on your income, plus extra for whichever state you live in (it varies, gotta look that up). I’m no tax expert but I can’t see there being a problem if you just pay that

Is there a minimum limit for investing crypto or does everything get taxed?

>>21828461
if I were to cash out 10k of short term gains and 39k of long term I’d be good though right? aside from state taxes

>>21828408
It's more like "dude just trust me" unless they audit you, but be honest as possible.
I used H&R Block the last 3 years and I handed over ALL of my trades and transactions, down to the penny, but they didn't really want them and the return was approved immediately anyway so I know the records weren't looked through.
H&R Block just wanted the "total purchases minus total sales" final number for the whole year for all of my crypto.

>>21828571
so where'd you get $150 from? from your ass?

>>21828750
long term counts ALL income
use turbotax it will figure this out for you automatically, in addition to other savings

I'm new, make fun of me, doesn't matter. Just want guidance.

I have a small amount of a SBREE bought with etherium, say it goes way up and i swap back for more ETH. I then just hold the ETH or swap some of it into other coins.

What are the actual taxable events here, is the ETH -> SBREE taxable if it was done with no real net gain, is the SBREE -> ETH with gain taxable, and would the ETH -> random coins to be held taxable as well?

Understandable if this is annoying or no one gives a fuck.

>>21828803
read jabroni
>>21827991
>>21827991
>>21827991
it's all taxable. sometimes you record a gain sometimes a loss

>>21828764
I didn't make that post

Does the IRS care where you bought it from?

Let's say I bought 100k FTM from KuCoin and 100k FTM from Hotbit in Jan 2019. Can I just say "200k FTM purchased Jan 2019 for XX amount total"?

>>21822794
Not sure what you mean about being taxed twice.

Here's a scenario

1) Buy ETH
2) Trade ETH for NEO - taxable event
3) Hold NEO
4) Trade NEO for ETH -- taxable event
5) Sell ETH - taxable event

for teach taxable event, you are taxed depending on your capital gains.

>>21828793
ahh you’re right, long term gains are still considered income they just get taxed differently

>>21828899
>Can I just say "200k FTM purchased Jan 2019 for XX amount total"?
Yes but you should be keeping notes where you made these purchases anyway.

I have a letter from the irs coming today but I'm not home to open it.

They can't possibly be auditing me for 2019 can they?

>>21828899
>Can I just say
yes, but if you are going somewhere shady, beware. some things they care about, some not

>>21828803
any and all coin to coin transactions are taxable, it doesn't matter the gain/loss. $0.02 increase while you were in the process of going from ETH to SBREE? Taxable event.

>>21828930
>ahh you’re right, long term gains are still considered income they just get taxed differently
it's complicated and not explained well anywhere
long term bracket decided by "all" income (there's a special category)
long term gains all taxed at this single bracket
short term gains treated as normal income
get turbotax and use it

>>21826815
>H+R Block

>>21829134
sounds like they actually filed his taxes right (mostly) which is a goddamn miracle

the worst part about this whole thing is, you literally have to mathemtically compute the amount your crypto appreciated every time you make a taxable event with it. and you also have to calculate the amount it appreciated from all the different fractions you had and that you are buying of all the different alt coins, between them, etc. it truly is a nightmare to do.

there are some sites out there that help, but i cannot imagine a simple process no matter what you do.

>>21828357
you only pay capital gains on money you make

some of you legit have no idea how capital gains taxes work and find it hilarious

ive read some people on here saying you have to pay gains taxes on selling stablecoins also which is wrong unless you make a profit on the sale of stablecoins which is rare

>>21828540
STA at 0.5c and buidl at 10c and a few that didn't go anywhere.
A bunch made small gainz
2 REALLY made it
And I only lost a bit of money with 2.

>>21828669
>>21828753
Good to know.

Can anyone confirm if you pay tax on the quarter of the year you cashed out like 50k plus?
Also, can't I cash out first then have the money to hire a CPA to sort this shit out?

I've always had the idea to put away 40% of what I cash out to pay for the taxes at the end of the year and have a CPA figure it out. Also what happens if I have the exchange wire a large amount to my bank, would there be an account freeze or would they just fill out a large transaction document and send it to the IRS. Would that document bee needed when filing end of the taxes. The final stretch is what confuses me the most.

>>21829657
>Can anyone confirm if you pay tax on the quarter of the year you cashed out like 50k plus?
what? google estimated tax
>Also, can't I cash out first then have the money to hire a CPA to sort this shit out?
yes

>>21828571
Its a taxable event but if there's no income (appreciation of the crypto) then there's nothing to tax.

>>21822794
Ignore (((them))).

What is a good place to find a CPA? From a company or at one of these local shops?

>>21826083
This. Exactly.

Also what good is the money if it’s not legal.

You can party hard and vacation a lot
Buy physical gold. That’s about it.

If you don’t pay taxes, your ability to obtain wealth through legal assets diminish aka , real estate, investment opportunity through registration for accredited investor Perks,
Financial management firms,
Retirement plans.

>>21827626
>>21829134

Talk all the shit you want, but I have been filing my taxes and have had no issues as a (((professional))) answers all my questions for a small fee. Meanwhile I see retarded misinfo on how everytime you swing you have to pay taxes daily on /biz/.

>>21822794
I've made so many trades the past year. I don't even know how much profit or how to find my trades documented.

>>21830561
In the USA every crypto to crypto trade that results in a profit is a taxable event assuming you don't lose your profits by the end of the year.

>>21830692

This is wrong and if you believe that then you have been paying way more than you need to in taxes

>>21826395
Anon is right...Checked with multiple CPAS. Crypto are classified as securities and crypto to crypto is 100% taxable.

Fiat to Crypto no tax, Crypto to Crypto and Crypto to Fiat are all taxed.

>>21822991
>not fiat-to-crypto.
Yeah because you already had to pay tax on that fiat in the first place!

>>21831544
That had me wonder why is their even a tax on something that was already taxed?

tell them you will obey tax laws when they start enforcing covid laws, assault laws, terrorist laws, kidnapping laws, and public decency laws on the orc mobs that are rioting

>>21830801
Retard

>>21830475
you have to spend a few hours researching. if you live near a population center someone nearby, otherwise online
don't go to "h&r block"
interview them first

>>21830692
there is slippage on every uniswap trade.A majority of your transactions aren't taxable. Swings will need to be recorded.

>>21831175
>securities
they aren't classified as securities though for most purposes they are treated equivalently
fuckin shit is this thread ever retarded

Imagine taking an enormous risk and holding for 3 years only to have some government take away 40%.

>>21832467
>40%.
in the US its 20% federal
+ 0 in some states, up to around 10% in others

>>21823115
>If you’re overseas, the State Department may issue you a limited validity passport good for direct return to the United States.

its okay they will issue you a one way passport do you can return to the gulag.

>>21823214
how would they find out? most of these trades are private? how fo they know how much you gained or lost from each. so it is like waitresses and tips where tgey just make up a number

>>21832161
If you buy ETH for usd and use that ETH to buy a token on uniswap which then subsequently doubles in a week and then you sell it back for eth you are now taxed on that profit. So if you used 10k usd worth of ETH and then you bought STA and sold back for ETH at double the price a week later and now own $20k usd in ETH, you will be taked on the $10k usd profit you made in short term capital gains aka standard income tax.

>>21828864
>jabroni

who are you hulk hogan?

>>21833242
I’m Steve Austin

>>21833064
because they see david dinkelstein received 3k every month from coinbase inc

>>21832525
Then why is Florida at 25% at tge highest bracket when they have 0% in-state taxes on long term gains. It should be max 20% in FL.

>>21830498
They will learn the hard way...

>>21830498
Yes but you sell your soul

ive been stressing about this lately
i never bought crypto ever
i mined it in 2017
i didnt know crypto to crypto was taxable
and i have just paid taxes as income on what ive cashed out
now here i am with almost 200k worth of link and i have no idea what to do or where to go
is it a cpa or a tax lawyer i need?

>>21834399
I believe so

>>21833064
>event
They will know when you deposit to a bank account, or run through Conibase (which reports all large holdings to IRS). Not worth trying to get around it, IMO

>>21835121
believe so on what anon

>>21822794
does anyone know if those infomercials offering to negotiate with the IRS and lower your tax debt are real? i deducted too much and got audited and now im in debt to these fuckers and have to make payments every 3 months

Can someone here please redpill me on offshoring my crypto to a trust fund in Portugal? What does it entail and where can I learn more about it?
>t. EU member citizen but not from Portugal

>>21823214
how do they know you traded crypto for crypto?

>>21835439
CPA and lawyer

>>21835489
Bump... pls

>>21835989
fuckkk
that sounds like an expensive combo

>>21836774
I screwed up should if been "or"

>>21836790
oh thank fuck
i was starting to see my linkies melt away
there is a local place that does crypto taxes but they are kinda steep (1-1.5k per blockchain)
is there a tax jew that biz recommends in the usa?

>>21826621

Same situation. Been in Crypto since 2015, haven't claimed anything. I now have 50k Link and am sitting on one million dollars in Crypto, but avoiding taking any profits because I don't want to deal with getting audited and the tax nightmare that I've created.

>>21833527
seems like they are counting NIIT (federal) and then rounding up

>>21836870
If you search terms "turbotax crytpo" you should get a result that within links to some program you can use.

>>21837171
do things like cointracking.info help you with previous year fixes. i forget what the term is called

>>21834399
your best bet is to get it fixed ASAP rather than letting it spiral out of control
get a good cpa and a lawyer
be honest about your situation
the penalties won't be that bad
look for amnesty program

all you retards needed to do was use bitcoin.tax and read a couple news articles
I'll be honest, if you mongoloids can't figure out simple taxes then you'll never make it.

>>21826725
this

>>21823348

This is 100% wrong. You are supposed to pay tax on crypto -> crypto transactions. As well as getting credits for any losing trades.

There are so many things I want to respond to in this thread, and so many outright wrong advice being given.

If you are a poorfag cashing out 5k I wouldn't worry either way. If you are cashing out a substancial sum, then it's worth spending the 2-3 hours reading about this and finding a service that works for you (cointracking.io, taxbit, accointing, etc).

And for the 'lul you pay taxes' people, stay poor. Or enjoy jail when you try to pull any of it back into the real world.

>>21833077
how are you suppose to pay on that 10k? Im a neet who's never gone anywhere near a tax form in my life, would they send me a letter on that 10k or until the end of the year where they add all of it up supposing I made more?

>>21822794
>taxed for holding
Nigga what?... whose ass did you pull that from?

>>21828357
Capital GAINS nigga
>buy $100 worth of BTC
>sell when worth $200
>pay taxes on the $100 gain ($200 - $100)
If you held that BTC for less than a year the tax on your $100 gain would be at the same rate as your income tax. If you held it over a year you pay a different long term capital gains rate (generally lower)

all you degens that harvest yams for $150 a pop are straight fucked

>>21838791
Sell them for pennies and you offset that gain with the actual loss. This isn't hard.

>>21823348
Wrong. Retard.

>>21824665
Wrong. Retard.

>Decide to spend half a day combing through about 5 wallets worth of ERC20 transactions.
>Record buys, sells, price of ethereum, etc etc
>Spreadsheet practically 4 pages long
>Have made a whopping $239 in ethereum to token gains after fees.
There is no way the IRS is going to find half your transactions. I only knew cause I knew where to look. Between gas fees and other stuff, I was still 'missing' a few ethereum when the dust settled, so it would be more than easy to spread gains out as fees and come up with 0 or even a loss.
You are only going to encounter trouble if you try to hide large gains being turned back into FIAT and you don't pay taxes on it.

Holy shit, the amount of retardation in this thread is beyond belief.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/virtual-currencies
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/virtual-currencies
>Q15. Will I recognize a gain or loss if I exchange my virtual currency for other property?
>A15. Yes. If you exchange virtual currency held as a capital asset for other property, including for goods or for another virtual currency, you will recognize a capital gain or loss. For more information on capital gains and capital losses, see Publication 544, Sales and Other Dispositions of Assets.

>>21839001
Whoops, second link should be
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-on-virtual-currency-transactions

>>21826815
Holy shit you retard.

>>21830801
Dumb fuck.

>>21838996
today, no, they're not going to find it
but once you start making serious money you've already fallen into the trap of hiding more and more
txns live on the chain forever publicly
they're already paying firms to mine the data
google knows when you have a dingleberry because you take an extra 3.4 seconds in the bathroom
it's the fucking irs
they're going to fucking find it
at least declare aggregate gains

>>21833527
this is the long term rate for federal + the states long term rate
florida & washington only have to pay the 25% federal

>>21822884
you dont get taxed for holding lol
>>21822991
you also dont get taxed for crypto-to-crypto

THE ONLY WAY YOU GET TAXED IS IF YOU SELL YOUR CRYPTO FOR FIAT AND SEND IT TO YOUR BANK

stay clean dumbass anons so that you're not like the absolute brainlet in the other thread trying to hide 1M in gains from the tax man that he could've got scot-free
you dumb fuckers

>>21839203
this is wrong in the US
any possibility of like kind txns ended years ago

>>21839139
I don't intend on hiding anything significant. Most of my ERC20 purchases are made shortly after buying the Ethereum for them so unless I happen to hang onto a bit of it longer than normal the difference is usually a few dollars. Fees eat that up. To date I haven't actually turned any of my ERC20s back into Ethereum yet, and I haven't 'cashed out' on an exchange. (I only really started messing with crypto this year)

>>21839203
You absolutely do get taxed crypto-to-crypto. It's no different from selling one stock to buy another, minus the step when it's turned into USD first. This is also, country specific too.

>neet
>dumped $2100 of my dads money into crypto
>made a couple 100 dollars through thousands of random uniswap swaps
am i suppose to track all of them? Is there a program that logs all your etherscan txn's? Is going from a shitcoin to shitcoin taxable?
What if I got rugpulled and I hold 500 of a certain shitcoin that can no longer be liquidated?

What if you get rug pulled and want to claim the loss. How can you prove fraud besides telling them trannies shut down their discord. Or do you sell to yourself for 1 cent? Asking for a screenplay I’m writing.

Cashoutfags, don't forget to pay your 3.8% NIIT on top of your 37% gains rate. The ride never ends.

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc559

>>21839363
I seriously doubt it was thousands but every time you swing you're taxed on the profit. However, if you're neet you don't have any income so you likely won't pay shit unless you totaled a five figure amount or higher.

>>21839424
>However, if you're neet you don't have any income so you likely won't pay shit unless you totaled a five figure amount or higher.
which is why he (and you) should declare it on your next tax form. aggregate it at least if you're lazy
then your chain is clean all the way back to the beginning if you make real money

>>21839381
yup you sell it for a loss and then report that loss on your capital gains form

>>21839424
yea more like hundreds.
>likely won't pay shit unless you totaled a five figure amount or higher.
Ok let's say I do end up with say $10k from the $2100, do I have to log every etherscan transaction and end up paying the $7900 gain tax? I googled crypto taxes and ended up reading this poor faggot's story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tax/comments/9tcnu8/did_i_ruin_my_life_by_trading_crypto/

>never filed for tax
>turned $5k into $880k in 2017 on ETH
>dropped to $125k in 2018
>has to pay 400k in taxes from that 2017

why would you idiots ever cash out. https://www.bitrefill.com/

just live off crypto.

>>21839590
That's still taxable. The only way around it would be one of those services that does instant low interest loans collateralized by crypto.

If i make $3k on a coin and then trade it all for another coin and then lose $4k, do I owe taxes on that $3k still even though I lost it?

>>21839676
Yes. You realized your gains when you traded Coin A to Coin B. It’s retarded, but blame the Jews for this.

>>21839539
>aggregate it at least if you're lazy
I intend to. There's a difference between hiding shit from the IRS and cheating a little to lower the total gains down.

>>21839415
>37% gains rate
this thread is truly awesome
can wait to take advice on which yield defi scheme to plug all my coins into from brainlets who couldn't fill a 1040ez

>>21839676
Yes but you also can claim the loses so you effectively can claim $1000 loss in that scenario.

>>21837587
This is just too fucking retarded to explain.
Crypto --> Crypto taxes, don't exist. You also get no credits in failing trades. Slow government hasn't put any laws in place yet for this, and theirfore its untaxable for crypto->crypto exchanges.
It'd be like, you paying taxes for holding Chinese Yuan, and it going up in value in conjunction with the Australian dollar, and the US taxing you for your successful trade.

>>21839539
>aggregate it at least if you're lazy
is that a fancy word for logging all transactions? how do you do yours?

>>21839326
thats why you keep your trades to crypto only like trading link to btc then trading the btc for eth if you so wish. none of these trades would be taxable. literally if you went to talk to a cpa right now they would just ask you "how much did you put in, and how much did you get out" THATS IT.

>>21839662
why would you report buying gift cards?

>>21839744
may help to know you can deduct fees

>>21839785

I just pay for the highest tier service in token tax. It’s 2k, but fuck men if I want to keep track of all my fucking uniswap transactions this year.

>>21839835
My OP I said I deducted fees. Gasfees and other shit are so buried in transactions hashes you can get away with adding a little (reasonable) amount more.

>>21839780
Thanks. So if the year ended today, I'd report my 3000 gains and 4000 loses and that's it?

>>21839785
it means i accurately report my gains even if I combine fills into something sensible
technically you're supposed to report every fill. i've seen people do it both ways depending on their risk profile
once you start doing your own taxes you'll see all the ambiguity involved in accounting things down to the penny

you anons are silly. But a lot of decent info above.
Fiat > crypto = opening position (no tax)
crypto > crypto = taxed
crypto > fiat = taxed.
end of story.
record every crypto transaction. every sell to a different crypto is your new opening position for that asset. Its not hard anons since it is all digital. You should be able to tell where you money came from and where it went.

if you mined, its income value is the value on the day you mined it. mining unknown shitcoins? opening position = $0
sharedropped or split? opening position of new asset is fair value at time of split. maybe thats zero, maybe pretrading shows it had a value. ymmv
gift someone? your opening position may become their opening position.

Short term gains / losses count against your regular income, taxed at your regular income bracket
Long term gains / losses, also counts toward sincome. taxed at 0% if you make under 40k, 15% til ~440k income, or 20% over.
You should find a standard method to track your coins.
if you can prove you held some coin in a cold wallet, and traded some of the same coin but they were kept separate from eachother you might not eat away your cold wallets eventual long term gain status if you track them properly.
end result, taxes suck, planning sucks. but your in a huge hole if you dont plan and have to trigger more gains the following tax year to pay for the previous tax year (it fucked me up big)

>>21839838
Am I getting this right? you pay $2000 for these jews to log your history? What the ever living fuck?
>>21839978
So at the end of the day it all boils down to the mood of the certain jew assigned to your case depending on how high profile you are. Thanks man. i fucking hate how unstriahgtforward these jews are, never learned any of this shit and i have an iq of 95

>>21824296
You don't contact them and ask for help - that's not how this works. I went to an accountant and cleaned up a huge mess.
Here's what I did - & this was strict good faith + as much calculations as I could do. I started with X in 2017, I ended with X in 2018 + amount I cashed out.
From there I recalled all the trades I could, as well as what I started with so net net - the IRS got the same amount of money. This really isn't good as it's not *actually* the same as keeping track of your trades. At the end of a calender year you are expected to pay all capital gains, then any losses the next year can only have $4K in deductions subtracted but it carries over until you no longer have any losses. In addition the tax rates can change slightly.
Tl;dr - get an accountant, will cost you $600 and start cleaning stuff up. Or stay in crypto, never use KYC & never cash out. Those are your two options.

>>21839923
you owe nothing and get to roll over the loss to the next year(s), up to limits

>>21822794
for fellow burgers who used uniswap, how in the hell would I get the liquidity fee from previous transactions? I have the cost and transaction fees on etherscan but the liquidity fee is nowhere to be found.

>>21840063
Ty for the info fren

>>21825783
Yes I have done $20K w Gemeni (And I paid taxes on it)

>>21826725
honestly reading people's complete lack of understanding of how taxes work makes me wonder how many people here actually have a job lmao

>>21840041
>So at the end of the day it all boils down to the mood of the certain jew assigned to your case depending on how high profile you are.
The chances your tax return interfaces with an actual human is extremely low. Tax returns are electronically done and flagged. Letters are automatically sent to people who generate said flags, and if you're one of them you just as well could mail them back a mountain of paperwork proving that you're right.
The IRS is not a fucking all seeing eye. You might get to the point where you do get audited but if you're only cheating a little bit here and there the difference will be negligible.

>>21827991
This.
The only exception being if you receive an airdrop/fork of a coin that is not traded anywhere, has no established market value and is essentially worthless, in which case you claim a cost basis for that crypto of $0.00 and then owe full taxes if you ever do sell it.

>>21840108
shut up nigger lmao

>>21839783
Why do you believe this when the IRS specifically states that you do? I’m honestly asking.

>>21822936

Nobody should pay taxes you fucking kike

>>21822794
make mad gains. Trade it into XRP, let XRP drop 0.001, then sell, claim as a loss. Idk if this works but I hear theres a loop hole.

>>21823214
This guy gets it

>>21833064
You need to self report it, or risk getting audited, paying triple what you normally would pay (or the government takes your house away from you and your kids) and going to jail and getting assfucked

So, fear, basically

>>21840283
When you buy XRP, the IRS flags you as 'retarded' and you never have to pay taxes again.

>>21828037
This. It would probably be fine for $10K slowly done thru ATMs and spent on living expenses with cash. But these guys are going to think they can get away with buying a new car.
Maybe it would be possible to expatriate to somewhere you can get a citizenship for.
I went thru not bothering to keep track of my trades then trying to put it all together over 3-4 weeks and hired an accountant with a best faith effort & essentially tracked my fiat in, my fiat out, recounted most of my big trades etc. After doing that I realized the only two options are to keep everything in crypto & avoid KYC exchanges completely (I didn't) or go completely legit. These guys who think about taxes after using coinbase are going to get blown the fuck out.

>>21839783

What you described if Forex trading and is completely taxable

Holy shit people here are fucking retarded, im selling everything

>>21840041
>So at the end of the day it all boils down to the mood of the certain jew assigned to your case depending on how high profile you are
pretty much
though in practice it's pretty just
they know who's trying to bone them
>>21840123
decent take but, you should act like you are getting audited. if you do get audited they can go back through years of returns and they will have all seeing eye powers at that point.

>>21826627
Rolling

>>21834399
Honestly a CPA might be fine. I had slightly less than this - I cashed out about $120K & had $50K left in crypto. I went to a lawyer first who referred me to a CPA.
I backed into where I estimated my trades were (Bitcoin -> Link), file amended return, pay taxes & you are home free. In addition, the IRS has their 5 year rule (which in practicality is 3) and if you file an ammended return this time is from your PREVIOUS return, so if they accept it you're out of the woods.
What may cause you issue is if you cash link out now you have no cost basis for the purchase price.

>>21840225
Specifically because #1, the IRS is big and slow, and their eyes on crypto are blind at best.
#2 Its because of the fact that you technically do not need to pay capital gains taxes from crypto -> crypto transfers, as it is not realizing the proper investment, until you sell for fiat.
Either way though, I'm moving to a tax haven and renouncing my citizenship the second I make it.

>>21840108
It makes me feel warm & fuzzy inside thinking of the IRS trying to track down 100,000 NEETs without a car trying to figure out how to not pay taxes

>>21840040
this.
>mining
can you explain this part. I'm mining say bzx, and i get paid in usdc that i cash out. What do? What's the "tax" terminology on staking/mining?

Say: I put 10k in a coin, Say if Cashout at 20k a year later
I owe taxes on 20% of 10k so 2,000 dollars
But I also have a coin I bought for 3000 goes to 1000. I sell that.
Does that mean I own taxes on 8k? or since I have 2k capital loss I pay no taxes

>>21840576
you get taxed on the mined proceeds as if they were normal income. whether it's on the cost basis of the bzx or the cost basis (!) of the usdc in USD depends on your arrangement

>>21840615
>Does that mean I own taxes on 8k?
you owe taxes on the 8k
this is a simplified model though. in practice there are more factors at play

>>21840576
afaik, the value of whatever you mine is counted as income at its value on the day you mined/staked it. if it changes in value from when you mine it til you sell it then that would be counted as capital short/long term gain/loss

>>21840660
anon is right.
you dont write it off dollar for dollar as a loss, you write off against the gains. 10k gain - 2k loss = 8k taxable gain.

>>21840635
>mined proceeds taxed as normal income
What if I create a company that does this "staking" for me. Can I get taxed as a company versus normal personal income?

>>21840753
yes

Ok. So what if I invested $15k this year, made tons of trades on DEXs and CEXs and evening the crazy scummy foreign ones and have no idea what I’ve done trade wise, but if I fully cash out $30k, can I just give them an amount? I’m pretty sure Coinbase and Binance.US will be generating a report. So can I just lump sum the $15k as earnings or do I really need to list 100 trades from DEXs and obscure CEXs? I’m not trying to avoid taxes, but 2020 investing and 2020 full divesting should still give me my net tax liability, right? Does that red flag me?

>>21840664
>if it changes value when you mine it , then that would be counted as capital short/long term gain/loss
Break this down for a brainlet:
So if bzrx is at $1, and after a month the staking of bzrx i earn $500 USDC.

if I convert $500 USDC to USD, the short/long term gain/loss will depend what value of bzx changing from $1 to $5, etc.

>>21840769
thanks desu. i'll look into creating a company bank account and tie that company BA to coinbase, so when i do withdrawals it will be to the company BA and not my personal account. Godspeed fren

>>21840660
>>21840733
thanks a lot

>>21822971
>Giving up half your gains because you’re afraid of the tax man
Lmfao, they get 10 percent, nothing more.

>>21840753
In addition if you do this & move overseas - single employment outside of the US is exempt for the first 80K or something (was thinking about this the other day)

>>21841028
do this correctly, eg, if you do a C corp without an S corp election you're going to get double taxed
it also costs money to close the (non sole prop/non-partnership) company later
forming companies is its own huge issue

Can I set up a trust account in Portugal and have that hold onto my crypto to avoid paying CGT? Does anyone do this?

>>21840978
You:
Have 100 bzrx staking, with opening position value $1/coin.
You:
stake 10 bzrx yesterday worth 2.50/coin
stake 10 bzrx today worth 3.50/coin
You:
sell all 120 bzrx in a month for $5/coin
you have 100 coins at $500 value minus their opening position $100 value = $400 capital gain, you also have 10 coins of mining/staking income @ 2.50/coin = $25 income which is also your opening position for them now which you sold at $5/coin for another $25 in cap gains
lastly you have 10 coins of mining/staking income @ 3.50/coin = $35 income which becomes your opening position for them which you sold for $5/coin = another $15 in capital gains.
at the end of the day you spent $100, and you show $440 in capital gains + $60 in income on a sale valued at $600 total

>>21839576
> Don't cross Jan 1st with both a 5X your annual salary tax burden & a volatile asset.
Not that hard - really it's not

>>21841138
>>21841144
Thanks desus. For now i may just cash out on cuckbase a few k a month, under 10k at random numbers.

This should fly me under the radar,r-right?

>>21841393
I do not touch coinbase because they were filing forms where if you
1 - Purchased BTC for 5K -> went to $5,500 -> moved bitcoin off, official form saying you owed the IRS taxes on $500. It was a nightmare, IRS doesn't understand taxes and will accidentally fuck you over, Coinbase doesn't give a shit. Cash out at Gemeni or buy gold directly from JM Bullion.
Then pay taxes on your gains.

>>21841393
>under 10k at random numbers.
>This should fly me under the radar,r-right?
no, it makes you more suspicious
"structuring" or "smurfing"
just be legit anon

>>21841283
>sell all 120 bzrx in a month for $5/coin
That's the thing, I don't plan on selling any bzx, ever. staking bzx can get you usdc.

So bzx itself can become volatile, but the rewards of receiving a stable coin can be constant.

>>21841477
>>21841483
nice. thanks anons i'll cash out on gemini, and look into c corp/s corp.

>>21841504
ok well then at the very least, all your staking earnings are counted as income the day they are staked.
if you stake $5 USDC worth of bzrx then youd mark that as $5 income of USDC at $1/ USDC, assuming USDC doesnt fluctuate in value you wont need to pay any gain or loss on holding the USDC.

>>21840108
95% of the population doesnt. whats your point

Also waiting for the day when you can trade/hold in a smart contract.

a poo explains one possibility
https://youtu.be/NV5ubkGQUes?t=77

if you are cashing out a large lump sum, you should set yourself up on the other side(corp, llc,) so you can hold future property(land, real estate, other property) in a tax efficient way. the corp/ llc will be able to provide you dividend income, which is the most efficient taxable income, at least in leafland

Accountant here. I generally think of this stuff as pretty basic. But last year I had 42k in wagie income. This year I've got 44k in wagie income plus 56k in stock and dividend gains. I never expected this, so I had to learn on the fly pretty quick what I need to do. For example I have to pay Q3 taxes for the Feds and my state. Also learned that quarters aren't quarters in the government calendar. Q3 is everything you made July and August due September 15th. And for my state PA if you didn't give them Q1 and Q2, then you owe 75% of the tax on the 15th. The Feds don't seem to care as much to that exact nature.

Other things that fuck me because of my new wealth is I can't claim a student loan interest deduction. And I'm close to not being able to even use a ROTH IRA if I go above 130k. So I went from no money to pay student loans or fund an IRA to not being able to...lol

So if I put in 100k and take out 1 mil with a bunch of shit trades in between, and then pay the irs 30% or whatever on the 1 mil, they're gonna audit me and do what? Go through all my etherscan transactions? Look at my binance account they don't know about?

>>21842128
You can always go the gambling route - at this point they are likely looking for money laundering & I doubt the IRS cares about that.

>>21842128
You're not going to get audited if you pay what you owe.

>>21842235
Right, but the point is I'm not 'paying what I owe' because I am not paying taxes on the crypto->crypto shit-trades I did in between.

I guess my point is, how would the IRS even know about my intermediary shit-trades if it's not on a KYC account like binance

Paying tax on crypto is for cucks, nobody cares about you with a couple million, you really think they will track you down?

You could lose your private keys at any time and your profit is zero

>>21842284
look at it this way. you're not smart enough to answer this (easy) question. the contractors who are auditing the chain are. skip paying at your own risk
>>21842309
they already are doofus
>>21842338
shut the fuck up you absolute moron

>>21822794
FUD
sage in all fields

I dont understand how you guys can find this tiny breadcrumbs and understand these blockchain projects but can't understand taxes. They are so fucking simple

>>21826815
>Swinging doesn’t create taxable events,
Yes, yes it does. Like trading cocacola stock for oil. Its a trade of commodities that need taxed. Thats how you fuck yourself with the IRS.
>swing trade all year and make a million bucks
>next year, now feb 22 lose all your millions swinging
>lets say IRS knows your wallets and can track them sense you told them during last years taxes
>now you have no money and owe uncle Sam Money you dont have
>you’re fuuuuuucked

>>21842537
>I dont understand how you guys can find this tiny breadcrumbs and understand these blockchain projects but can't understand taxes. They are so fucking simple
they don't. these are the guys posting 1min candle threads because they can't zoom out

>It looks like you're taxed once for holding

Just popping in again to call you a fucking retard, again. You're either an unironic fucking retard or you're intentionally lying for some reason, either way you should fuck off and die.

>>21842455
Lol
>>21842537
I started with real stocks on robinhood but because I seemed to pick shit stocks I sold off and then once I started recieving 1099 forms in the mail of all the trades I made and found out that I had to declare them to the IRS I said fuck trading all together and pretty much pulled all my money out of robin hood amd stopped depositing.

>>21841598
>if you stake $5 USDC worth of bzrx then youd mark that as $5 income of USDC at $1/ USDC,

if 1bzrx = 1 USD
Stake 1bzrx = Reward is $1 USDC
I withdraw $1USDC to $1USD
My reported income equals $1 USD?

How does the value of bzrx matter, where I only hold and stake bzrx, and only seek USDC/USDT rewards.

>>21842574
if you're buying things that can leave you holding completely worthless bags that's called gambling and, yes, gambling can fuck up your life. It's a completely moot point

>bro what if you cash out but then you get scammed and lose all your money? You'll owe taxes with money you don't have!

Uhh yeah, true? What's the alternative, never cash out? Because you might get scammed and have no money to pay the CGT you owe?

Holy fuck the misinformation in this thread is hilarious. Let me clear up the big 4 I see for you ignorant fucks:
1. Trading crypto for crypto does not qualify as a "like-kind" exchange per IRS guidance. You are taxed at the capital gains rate.
2. Any "dividends" you receive in the for of crypto is taxed as ordinary income.
3. The long-term, short-term, and state level capital gains taxes are different. The state level varies by state.
4. Gains and losses are netted, deductible, and subject to a max deduction

You're welcome anon. My rate is $115/hour.

t. Accounting

>>21842756
Just means be careful, people have fucked themselves this way. Gotta keep in mind what you do and how much you owe. My example might be extreme but it illustrates how you can fuck yourself. Might end up losing a bunch of money and barely being able to cover taxes

>>21842764
Here's one I'm fuzzy on.
Say I make $12,000 in gains. But I also have $8000 in losses. All short term, same tax year.
Do I pay short term cap gains on $12,000 or $4000?

>>21842401
If it's so (easy) then explain it to me? Who are these contractors? Individuals? Companies? Got any examples?

>>21842848
$4000

It's so fucking ridiculous considering how volatile the market with crytpo is that if you mooned on holdings but didnt know if it was going to dump you then have to get out on a short term to then get taxed higher then to hold long term to then end up losing everything but hey I got a lower tax on it right if I cash out.

Then on top of that where the hell are the tqx documents from coinbase?

Also how does one prove ower ship of a wallet? Does the coin/token contian originating data?

>>21842880
Awesome. Ample fucked my in the ass so that'll def help leverage a lot.

>>21842901
based schizo poster
ideally, you're holding everything long term so this isn't an issue
the best advice i can give you on crypto trading is to trade sensibly and worry about long or short term gains on the back end
also, hodling is typically better than swinging

>>21842764
based accounting fag.

>>21826083
Kek thanks for this

>>21843014
Tax laws are designed so that swingers get the rope

>>21822794
Just don't mention your holdings to anyone.
The IRS is not interested in your magical internet meme coins.
Also, don't cash out ever.

Also if I make a huge stack of money with crytpo but because of tax rate can I just send it to someone else and not even have to pay taxes?

>>21842878
>If it's so (easy) then explain it to me? Who are these contractors? Individuals? Companies? Got any examples?
easy != brief
it's a programming task and they've already issued contracts to do this
this will give you a sense of where they're at
https://cryptopanic.com/news?search=irs
it's ogre anon
>>21843181
>The IRS is not interested in your magical internet meme coins.
wrong. see above
>>21843236
>Also if I make a huge stack of money with crytpo but because of tax rate can I just send it to someone else and not even have to pay taxes?
see tax rules on "gifts"

I filed my taxes in April and the fuck heads have not given me my refund. What do I do? State refunded me like two weeks after but federal has been sitting on my cash.

>>21843181
The irs is always interested in your money. It doesn't matter if you make it through your office job, your side business selling weed to third graders, your underground geriatric fighting club or your human trafficking ring. If you don't pay them and they find out you have extra money they were not aware of you WILL get fucked in the ass

>>21843292
Will take a look at what I can find, thanks anon

>>21826575
Suck your own dick

>>21837150
Wait till trump 2.0, we will make it.

>>21843494
godspeed anon

>>21842901
It's fine if you sell Dec 31st, pay the taxes you owe & resume trading with the rest.
When you are trading with uncle sams money in the next tax year you can get fucked.

>>21841101
If they only get 10%, Tyrone gets 100%
>in prison

>>21843292
based and cryptotaxpilled

>>21841253
answer the following questions
>Are you an American Citizen?
>were you residing in the United States when you made your money?
If either of these is a yes, you can bet you're paying the full amount.

>>21841598
You don't mark anything as income until its transferred back into a legitimate currency. The IRS can't tax USDC. They can't tax BRZX, and they can't tax you on the value increase in an asset until you sell it. Real estate would be the only exception, and the IRS doesn't really handle property taxes.

>>21842284
Think about it like this
You buy X for 1 dollar.
It increases in price to 10 dollars
>You don't need to pay tax on this transaction "YET"
You then take that 10 dollars and pay for 10 "Y" coins at 1 USD a piece.
These then increase to 100 dollars a coin.
You sell these 10 coins for 100 dollars a pop
Your thinking is somehow you will pay taxes on both profits. In a way you will. But you wont pay tax on the 9 dollar profit and the 999 Dollar profit. Youll pay for it only on the 999 dollars.
If you make 30k overnight on a call contract and lose it all the next day you don't owe the government the taxes on the 30k you've already lost. Hell you can even roll losses into the next year in some cases to make it look as though you are at a net loss even when at a net gain.

does anyone believe the IRS is going to go off of the major KYC exchanges and into the addresses of wallets you interacted with to try and pin those transactions on you? how can they possibly prove that it's you

>>21843353
Don't you follow the news? They are late with some returns. They are paying people interest.
>the interest is taxable...lol

>>21843909
Listen man 99% of people are likely going to get away with it. If you have a cold wallet or maybe use metamask on your phone/computer they will get a warrant and you will be compelled to open these accounts. If you don't they can and will hold you indefinitely

>>21843946
Also the IRS has a check my refund thing on their website.

>>21843958
an easy solution to this is just wash everything into a privacy coin and move it to wallets that have never interacted with anything else

>>21843958
>you will be compelled to open these accounts
you don't have to self incriminate.

>>21844059
possibly. If they discover a shred of evidence this has occured they will fuck your ass 1000000x more than they would have.
What you're looking at is a nice "u owe us" letter in the mail and 10 years in federal lock up
>>21844069
Hey I realize that you think that is how that works. A lot of people do. People have been held indefneitly for not unlocking a phone the police have a warrant for. Your right to privacy and your right to prevent self incrimination don't really exist beyond your self and your words. They can literally compel you to take a blood test to determine BAC for a DUI stop. You don't think they are going to come after your money?

>>21844156
Don't get caught? How hard is it for you anons to live under a bridge and drink cheap malt liquor every day?

>>21841101
If you over pay them you can get the money back or some shit.

>>21841623
I do. I’m a CPA.

>>21844369
Please kill yourself in minecraft.

>>21822794
Don't know don't care

>>21844414
> Not an American.

>>21844369
is >>21841993
>if you are cashing out a large lump sum, you should set yourself up on the other side(corp, llc,) so you can hold future property(land, real estate, other property) in a tax efficient way. the corp/ llc will be able to provide you dividend income, which is the most efficient taxable income, at least in leafland
a good idea?

>>21843871
Maybe i'm just low IQ but doesn't this contradict what others are saying in this thread...you're implying you can only get taxed when you cash out for fiat.

>>21844471
I’m not familiar with Canadian tax law. Not sure it would really make sense in the US. A C-Corp would be subject to double taxation, and an LLC/S-Corp would just flow up to you.

Shilling this idea for an lurkers out there, come up with a coinbase alternative that handles the taxes or in fact make it into a job app that you only get paid from your good trades then you sell back to the company which then turns it into a paycheck which then deposits it into your bank account.

>>21844302
>don't get caught
Yeah sorry man. Thats not an answer. People smarter than you have gone down for bigger crimes. You can't just uno reverse out of the IRS's scope. Hope you don't get caught.

>>21840350
The IRS has issued guidance on crypto. It’s taxed as property, not currency. You pay tax on the gains. Create a spreadsheet and save current evidence of your transactions. When you file a 1040 (your income tax return) the front page now asks whether you transacted at any time during 2020 in digital assets. You sign that form under penalties of perjury, which means criminal penalties if you are caught lying (in addition to ass raping financial penalties). Either pay the tax or buy another citizenship and go on the lam. Good luck with the latter, as they’ll likely freeze all of your accounts and leave you to die poor in a third world shithole.

>>21844541
I’ll also note that my background is entirely of large C-Corps, so I’m not really qualified to give you advice for tiny stiff like this. There could be stuff like a 199A deduction that I’m not too familiar with.

>>21844477
Pretty much yeah. Lets look at legitimate securities trading. You are not going to pay tax on money that you gained and then lost while trading. If you cash out and then gamble it, different story.
If you invest in a stock, and you don't sell that stock, the only thing you could possibly own money on is dividends gained. In Crypto you are essentially trading a stock for another stock. Unless the IRS starts accepting eth, btc, or usdc, then they are going to have an extremely hard time justifying their actions. The second you take a dime out for coffee, that dime will be compared to what it cost you to make that dime, and that money will be taxed. There is something to be said about crypto not having any real regulations or government rules, like stocks, options, and securities in general do, but were a few years away from any real legislation or court cases defining these things. In the USA at least.

>>21842848
4000 like anon said but remember if your losses ever exceed your gains you can only deduct 3k a year max (as in they net to be a loss because got got pajeeted)

>>21844635
Wealth tax doesnt exist in USA, you don't pay tax on equity or assets unless sold. You literally will not pay tax on something just because it increased in value.

>>21844156
>blood test at DUI stop
mm yeah but thats because you literally "agreed" to it when you signed the forms for your drivers license. they can't hold you as long as they feel like. they have to charge you with something and you must see a judge within 72 hours or they must let you go

>>21844907
Dafaq seriously?

>>21844907
Okie dokie artichokie.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/man-jailed-indefinitely-for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives-loses-appeal/

>>21844633
My nigger. You think the irs would waste their time looking for someone like pic rel?

>>21822794

Short term capital gains tax brackets (equal to your income tax rates)
Here are the federal income tax brackets in the United States for the 2019 tax year. These tax rates apply to short term capital gains (crypto or other capital assets held for less than 1 year). Note that this is the same as your ordinary income tax rate.

Tax rate Single filer Married filing jointly Married filing separately Head of household
10% $0 – $9,700 $0 – $19,400 $0 – $9,700 $0 – $13,850
12% $9,701 – $39,475 $19,401 – $78,950 $9,701 – $39,475 $13,851 – $52,850
22% $39,476 – $84,200 $78,951 – $168,400 $39,476 – $84,200 $52,851 – $84,200
24% $84,201 – $160,725 $168,401 – $321,450 $84,201 – $160,725 $84,201 – $160,700
32% $160,726 – $204,100 $321,451 – $408,200 $160,726 – $204,100 $160,701 – $204,100
35% $204,101 – $510,300 $408,201 – $612,350 $204,101 – $306,750 $204,101 – $510,300
37% $510,301 and up $612,351 and up $306,751 and up $510,301 and up
Long term capital gains tax brackets
Here are the federal capital gains tax rates per income tax bracket in the United States for the 2019 tax year. These rates apply to long term capital gains (crypto or other assets held for more than 1 year).

Tax rate Single filer Married filing jointly Married filing separately Head of household
0% $0 – $39,375 $0 – $78,750 $0 – $39,375 $0 – $52,750
15% $39,376 – $434,550 $78,751 – $488,850 $39,376 – $244,425 $52,571 – $461,700
20% $434,551 and up $488,851 and up $244,426 and up $461,701 and up

>>21845031
Yes.
If they had evidence you owed them money.
The IRS is not a regular alphabet agency.
They will hunt you down and fuck you.
They might decide to fuck you over if you made a mistake.
They will fuck you and after they fuck you you will pay them for the privilege.
Do whatever you want. You're an autist on a meme coin forum arguing how you're going to evade on of the most powerful government agencies of the most powerful government in the world by pretending to be homeless while wealthy.

>>21832525
if Biden wins, it'll be 40%. No joke.

>>21844907
Judge thought martin armstrong had stuff he wouldn't turn over - he swore he didn't have it. Spent 7 years in prison for "contempt of court" before his case finally made it to the supreme court.

>>21822794
Only retards believe creepto is an investment.

>>21843057
It's so true tho, these link marines don't realize that tax fraud has the same statute of limitations as murder

>>21826575
invest it in crypto

>>21845405
Nah, flush it down at the casino. It's a lot easier and the odds are the same. But at least the casino is regulated.

Could I get out of the tax problem if I bag an IRS thot?

>>21826083
>Anon gives a detailed response about Oracle's, decentralized applications, and blockchain...

I laughed out loud when I read this, there isn't a person on this entire board capable of doing this or rationalizing Links use.

>>21845499
your dubs say yes,

>>21839203
>you also dont get taxed for crypto-to-crypto
uh, I've got news for you bud

>>21844541
so if your net after tax proceeds from crypto are say, $1mill. How would advise a client that walked into your office looking to mitigate future tax implications? Given he plans to acquire property in the form of land and commercial real estate?

>>21822794
Let me clear this up for you retards, especially those swingers out there.
>any crypto-to-crypto transaction is a taxable event
>moving crypto to a different wallet is considered a transaction
>if you're taxed at 35% (short term capital gains tax) and move crypto then you now only have 65% of your gains
>one more transaction and now you STILL pay 35% of 100% of your gains
>only 30% gains left
>one more transaction and you pay another 35%
>now you are -5%, probably still okay because short term capital loss covers up to 3k USD.
>one more transaction and youre utterly fucked at -40%
TL;DR For the love of God only fucking hodl if you're American. the IRS with completely rape you otherwise
t. been doing crypto tax since 2016

>>21845117
Hahahahaha hello irs. Irs are the larpers of the alphabet agency world.

>>21846294
>moving crypto to a different wallet is considered a transaction
so if i buy eth. move it to a wallet i get taxed? Then i move it to another metamask wallet, i get taxed again? When did i dispose of the original ETH?
I think you are a retard

If anyone wants to Bake a new thread with a proper OP go ahead otherwise at some other point within the week I will go through the posts written here and compile a new OP.

>>21845117
I'm going to pay my taxes anyway, crypto is virtually free money, I put in initially less than 20k and if I get to several million soon I don't give a shit about giving the irs a few hundred k.

>>21846446
How is that a crytpo to crytpo transaction?

>>21846430
I'm just a dude who has paid CGT and IT on securities trades.

>>21846446
Yes. Consider the case that 100% of your transferred eth is a short term capital gain. That means when you transact to another wallet (technically a 0% for 100% trade) then you will have the 35% short term capital gains tax applied

>>21846561
And I'm the devil.

>>21846294
You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. Even if a crypto to crypto transaction was taxable ( it's not) you aren't going to pay 35% of the trade value. You'd pay 35% of the profit in the trade ( virtually nothing. What you're proposing is essentially the Federal government imposing a 35% gas fee on all transactions. You should read more.

>>21846576
You're a link marine who's about to lose his life savings

>>21846640
>. Even if a crypto to crypto transaction was taxable ( it's not)
it is if you're American
> you aren't going to pay 35% of the trade value. You'd pay 35% of the profit in the trade
Consider the case where you make a trade after hitting a 10x, now whenever you trade at this level youll be paying 35% of your CURRENT gain PER transaction.