/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>21804215
>What it means
Absolutely nothing.

>>21804215
Until another country comes up with something better or everyone moves to crypto (yeah right), then the USD will remain almighty

that debt will mean nothing , they will get away with it just like they do now. Normies will complain and claim it's the end of the world economy but fast forward 100 years later still unaffected.
Money is just a meme

>>21804215
Well I’ve long pondered the same thing. Here’s what I’ve surmised: the USD is absolutely shit and does not hold its value. But it’s basically better than any other fiat, and it in reality is backed by the US military. So as long as the US remains the world super power, US currency will continue to reign. The question is if we pull the plug on it ourselves due to the system collapsing on itself, and getting replaced by something backed by gold/silver whatever. I think it’ll take something extreme, lots of suffering and inflation before anything happens. Maybe by 2028 like the article

>>21804260
>Money is just a meme
I agree with a lot of post but things like precious metals/commodities can retain purchasing power over the years

like 6 months depending on how Trump plays this

>>21804232
>>21804260
t. fell for the MMT meme

>>21804232
This
The national debt is a meme

>>21804260
This. And if something does happen? Well, we know exactly who to blame and where they spend their working days.

Republicans have talked about controlling spending for decades and yet they've never done a single thing to really grapple with and cut all our spending on Social Security and Medicaid. Democrats cry about the debt whenever they're out of power but they're always tossing out freebies whenever they're in power. They're both to blame for this shit, and I don't care what the debt level is any more. On their own heads be it.

>>21804215
yes goy

>>21804215
those are rookie numbers, we gotta pump that up

>betting against the JewSD

L

>>21804477
Maybe running the country based on a popularity contest isn't the best idea afterall

>>21804525
>rookie numbers
Go back to Telegram.

>>21804232
>>21804260
>>21804471
>Borrow 10$
>Don't pay it back

Based zoomer economist

>>21804215
This is how the crypto market will reach $1T+ in the future.
On the other hand, if you've already made it I'd advise buying a few houses so they can be paid off through hyperinflation

>>21804644
wow 3x? I will be RICH

>>21804477
Why don't they create some more taxes?

>>21804215

Nobody else is surprised by the 78 trillion figure? That's 50 trillion more, in 8 years. Is the US really going to borrow 6 trillion a year, every year? What a BS article.

>>21804215
Probably some 10-15 years

https://www.strawpoll.me/20820105

Where are we headed, biz?

What does it mean? A sovereign debt crisis where the U.S defaults on it's debt obligations and the dollar loses values making imports more expensive and raises inflation. It will however make the U.S exports more competitive tho...

>>21804215
2022 unofficially, 2025 officially. not my answer, saw it in another thread, but I think it's right. China and Russia are laying the ground work, once another major world economy joins the snowball will be fast. My guess is Australia will be the first to start seriously using Renminbi

>>21804721
Say goodbye to your precious 401k then

>>21804721
Not really, the Federal reserve has been printing more and more money every recession, first they started with hundreds of billions, now it's up to couple of trillions, the next recession (after this one) it's gonna be tens of trillions.
It's hasn't gone down since 2008 and never will go down, otherwise the US would go into an economic depression.

https://youtu.be/eQeKd-QcI3Q

Wait. If they're printing trillions, why the fuck do they need my $50,000 in taxes?

>>21804980
Because what actually makes us dollars valuable is the need to pay your taxes with them.

>inflation hurts little people, but actually benefits the ultra wealthy
>elites buy up everything for pennies on the dollar
>lol goyim, global financial reset
>we'll dole out a subsistence income for you
>you just have accept millions of migrants who will never integrate with your culture

That's the gist of it.

>>21804980

Because the Democrats don't want tax cuts.

>>21804904
Australia is too cucked by the US to ever be ahead of the pack on something like that.

>Mass Unemployment
>Mass Evictions
I predict the middle of September the Federal Reserve goes belly up insolvent.

It is already ded, people just don't realize it.

The fed has printed money before, but not in these amounts or this fast. And the fed has printed money to fund government spending, and not just spending but INVESTING. The fed has printed money for the government to spend money to improve infrastructure, public works, etc. Things that will actually generate return on investment. The fed has never printed money to literally dole out as a replacement for work or some type of new entitlement, essentially UBI, spending that has ZERO ROI other than potentially kicking a can down the road.

The fed has also never printed money to dole out to private companies. In fact it is illegal for the fed to do so, yet they have through a complex system concocted by Trump's treasury involving shell subsidiaries owned by the treasury that are run by private banks. The fed will dole out trillions of tax payer's money to private companies this way, many times the amount doled out as stimulus checks or unemployment. Money is distributed with disregard, often times in the dark with no oversight. From the small amount of disclosures that have been released, you can see companies like Philip Morris cigarettes, Nike, Coca-cola, etc. getting millions of dollars of week in taxpayer money to prop up stock prices.

The other big difference now is that never before has the public on a large scale been so aware of the fact that money is printed. After 2008 the media ripped the fed for its irresponsible manipulation of interest rates and devaluation of the currency. Now the media acts as if its some sort of moral imperative the print and dole out money to "feed people" and make sure people living outside their means can continue to dig their debt grave deeper for a few more months. Never before has the public largely been aware that money is not scarce, and is actually ok with it as long as they get their slice, not realizing the long term consequences.

>>21804215
The only reason it still is is because of the petro dollar. Iran is one of the only countries not giving a shit and sells it's oil to china in Yuan.
China/Russia/Iran form a threat to the US economy, and conflict is brewing.

>>21805479

So we get back to the gold standard to stabilize the dollar. Then what?

>>21805479

Is this what "100 trillion USD" meant

>>21805586
>implying there is enough gold
anon, I....

>>21805479
>The fed has printed money for the government to spend
They buy the bonds from banks to take them out of circulation. The bonds are already obligations of the Treasury and the gov already got the spending money right at the bond auction.

>The fed has also never printed money to dole out to private companies
How exactly do you think they're doing this? If you're talking about the liquidity facilities, they dumped 80% off the balance sheet from those since May. If you're talking about putting corporate bonds on the Fed balance sheet, they literally swap the bond for magic fake money, but the company has to PAY OUT when the bond matures.

>>21804694
Because who the fuck wants to pay more taxes to a failing government? Or to let laqueesha from the hoods, taquito from the southern border (spoiler: she hopped over it), and bing bang chang from China (the FOB entrepreneur with suspicious amounts of wealth) have our fucking hard earned middle class wealth? (what little is left of it to redistribute that is)

Shit's fucked.

>>21804215
Until the nukes disappear. Until then The Fed will continue to rule the world

>>21804333
Interesting

>>21804471
>what is a debt trap
a lot of recency bias and normalcy bias. you faggots aren't even prepared.

>>21804694
Kek, give terrible capital allocators more capital...that’ll fix our problem. There is no short term incentives for anyone Currently working in govt to fix anything.

>>21806108

This.

Ain't no one white n works a job wanna pay for degenerate single moms n nigger spics.

Bump

>>21805145
their economy depends on China and if US naval superiority slips even slightly China will control the South Pacific. they won't start flying communist flags but AUS could be the first to back themselves up with Chinese currency because they'll be using it to trade

>>21806035
>They buy the bonds from banks to take them out of circulation. The bonds are already obligations of the Treasury and the gov already got the spending money right at the bond auction.

The fed controls interest rates, and can determine what is politically acceptable spending, that is they can decide NOT to print money, interest rates rise, stocks drop and politicians don't get re-elected.

>but the company has to PAY OUT when the bond matures.

Except just like treasures, the fed can* just buy more corporate bonds to fund the corporation's bonds. Note that can will turn into must as the public will see it as a moral imperative to prop up these companies again and again to kick the can down the road just a little bit longer.

Eventually this system just spirals exponentially out of control and will lead to hyperinflation or if the fed does say no more, complete obliteration of the financial industry and stock market (and along with that the vast majority of people's savings and retirement, either through inflation or not).

>>21805755
Of course there is. You'll just gave to get used to seeing the price per miligram instead of price per troy oz. If PMs are re monetized in a way that makes the world get back behind them, the PM of the world has to account for the value of 7 billion people.

>>21804587
but unironically

>>21807706
PMs can stabilize an inflated currency, they cannot maintain its value indefinitely because of the nature of monetary policy

>>21804215
why hasn't the republicans and democrats passed the new stimulus
did trump fuck up the pressure with his gay eo

>>21804333
Inflation, such as what's happening now? Because before corona I'd have said sometime around 2030 and beyond we'd see the USD devalued to peso territory. After almost a year of this massive printing it could very well be around where you predicted, if not way sooner.

>>21804721
It's a stupid projection that takes usdebtclock.org's current wuflu rate and extrapolates it to 2028,

>>21807778
Except they literally did just that until 1971. The mining rate for gold expanded its supply consistently at about 2% per year, which is coincidentally the ideal inflation target. Modern MMT spending with fiat is literally the financial equivalent of a 5 day meth binge; the nature of this policy is to crash and burn, but only after the people who set it up have died.

How young are you dude?

>>21807845
Someone wants to crash the stock market

>>21804215
Not long. TPTB are imploding the economy with the fake pandemic and fake astroturfing BLM movement. Brace yourself for the technocratic one world government. Guess what. It’s already here.

>>21804477

The truth is that politicians use modern monetary theory when it suits them, and Austrian economics for people they don't care about (everyone who isn't rich). It's not abut money or even taxes, it's about power/social status. It suits the power that be for rightwingers to complain about bums or minorities or whatever being welfare leeches, and for lefties to think everything is because of racism, but that's because it's all about making sure the lower classes are divided against themselves and to keep the right-wingers voting R and the lefties voting D every single time instead of challenging their own parties with populist candidates who actually care about right-wing or left-wing values.

Bumpin a good thread.

I’ve come to respect Jerome Powell and the way he carries himself. He had the hardest job on earth back in March preventing everything from going under. Whether that’ll happen down the road or not we’ll see but I think more stimulus is on the way to alleviate, for now.

>>21804215
>by 2028
we will hit 100 trillion in debt by the end of the year.

>jews grant each other money from nowhere at low interest and use it to buy real assets and price you out of the market. This forces you to take a loan from kikes which you have to pay interest on, essentially enslaving you.
>It makes sense because they are yahweh's chosen people. Now pay your taxes to service the governments debts to them and the money they send to israel, pay your banking fees, pay your mortgage, pay your interest, sign the document saying you'll never boycott israel, donate to israel, donate to aipac, mutilate your sons and don't you dare EVER criticize the jewish people you filthy fucking goyim slave.
Is this how the US economy really works?

bump for decent tread on biz

Bump this thread. For it is blessed. I hope everyone of us frens makes it.

Probably a lot longer than most people realise, simply because most capital is situated in America and most capital has now become dumb money and refuses to see which was the wind is blowing.
Look at what happened to gold and crypto. Corrections occurred simply due to the Fed saying 'we might not cap yields yet' in their minutes. But of course anybody seeing the bigger picture knows the Fed is at the wall, and they have no choice. It might not happen now, but it will happen.
The other thing is a lot of Wall St have drunk Trump's kool aid. They really think the virus isn't a problem (or a hoax altogether), that printing money and putting it directly into the stock market is a good thing, and that american hegemony will last forever. None of these things are true, but nobody wants to believe it, so they wilfully blind themselves, just watching green line go up. And as long as they're doing that, the dollar will have value.

>>21806108
Kek I like taquitos tough lol make good food and work hard. The other 2 can go to hell .

>>21809248
Also Bump for such a based /biz/ thread see there’s brains in here.

>>21809088
you're right except for the part about the virus being serious

People be acting like the Fed is printing non stop buying corporate bonds and what ever. People seem to forgot in 2009 when they bought all of General Motors.

>>21804466
>t. fell for the MMT is a meme meme

>>21807389
China has no navy nor any experience running a navy. Their force projection will rely on controlling land in the south Pacific or will be through very spotty naval control. Neither of which are tenable.

>>21805120
Truly based sir

>>21805479
Truly based sir

>>21804260
>that debt will mean nothing
Pro-tip: if you don't pay your debts people stop lending you money. Scale it up, rule still works.

>>21806510
imagine being this much of a faggot

>>21808627
Yes. Fucking nasty kikes.

>>21805041
USD has the same tokenomics as any of these flavor of the week meme yield farming tokens.

This is the best thread on biz in a while

Here have some gold op

>>21811027
shut the fuck up.

>>21804215

My guess, a couple of years to a decade. It will move to a globalized basket currency system.

how I imagine this thread
love ya biz

>>21804980
Because you’re white and male. What? You thought the niggers and spics would be profitable?

>>21810592
Delete this right now!

>>21804232
Mutt cope
You're the next Africa

>>21810612
look in the mirror.

>>21810175
>boomer conventional war

Lmao, neomodern war is now on the internet faggot. Even rand Corp said USA already lost it. Why do you think china is the first in crypto while USA taxes the shit out of it.

>>21804215
I'm sorry, but did the economy already collapse? Oh, that's right. The decision hasn't even been made yet. In fact, it's only midweek. Does not 20% unemployment count as a collapse? Is that what you're saying? Because if you're saying that I can assure you that you're wrong. Why would you make this topic when the market is still open? The traders are in NYC right now and they have been the best stock market people for how long now? They're fighting one of the worst virii of all time and they're feeding off the lack of support from the Mainstream media. But you know what? They're still fucking trading. America is one of the best fucking nations on earth, we dropped 2 more and would have dropped 2 more if Japan hadn't surrendered. Maybe you should shut the fuck up before you make retarded topics like this. You know why? Because you're going to be embarrassed when the Dow hits 30k and someone bumps this topic. Oh look at that, the Fed just pumped 2 trillion dollars into the economy and cut us all a check. Are you a fucking drunk? Are you retarded? Are you autistic? You are a fucking idiot and you should never make a topic on this board again and I'm fucking serious. I almost have a feeling you're the only guy making all these anti-Dow topics because you're a faggot hater who doesn't like America because its free. Fuck you, be good at something in YOUR life and then maybe try to trun the Fed, like I give a fuck. It's so easy to spot out your threads now, you're a retard. Always doing stupid shit like this. Why don't you try to be a good poster? Just for once? For once in your fucking life try not to make a topic like this. That's just you, you're always right at getting it wrong. Fuck you. You are nothing.

>>21809088
>They really think the virus isn't a problem (or a hoax altogether),
When my 93 year old aunt with immune disorders survived it I realized it really was a joke

>>21813036
Love this pasta

>>21813205
my baby yoda died from the virus it's no fucking joke

>>21813036
kek, the seething is real on this one

>>21813009
I don't know how people can watch the Chinese fail at literally everything they fucking do and still think they're capable of being a threat, even if the rest of the world didn't hate them. They can't build apartments that don't fall over, they're facing their worst famine since Mao this winter because LMAO what's flood contol, they can't even do the maintenance on their French built biolab to keep the Coof inside. All this would be forgivable if they could keep being an export led economy that's the factory of the world, but they can't even do that. Chinese wages have octupled in the last decade, and the smart money has been moving to Vietnam and fucking Mexico. Covid is just accelerating the divestment. This is to say nothing of the wisdom of buying 80% of your energy from another continent when you don't have a blue water navy to guard it, but the Nips do.

Yeah buddy, China sure has their shit together. That must be why they're suspending party member passports and doubling down on their already tight laws to stop capital flight. China sure must be a winning bet, why else would every Chinese person with power and money immediately move their family to a western nation and buy land there?

> china denies virus reparations
> no debt
> war

all going to plan

>>21813205
Just a flu, just a nothing burger.
And you fucking faggots didn't believe me.

>>21813586
I was reading an article about how wrong sweden dealt with the virus. Then it said it was the highest death count of a month.......since a severe '94 FLU.

less than 20 years

>>21804260
the FED buys those bonds, meaning they effectively create the demand. People will keep loaning to the Gov only as long as the Fed keeps buying those worthless shit bonds which will never be actually paid.

What that really means is that the debt bubble is being printed like everything else these days.
Hyperinflation is coming. Effectively it means a widening gap between the rich (read: new landowners) and poor (wageslaves). Middle class is getting decimated. It's happening before our very eyes and most people still haven't caught on.

Semi-feudal society again soon unless a revolution happens.

>>21804215
No one wants your shitcoin anymore, I hold everything in GBP or Euro, rather in GBP

>>21812903
as long there is demand for the us-dollar the debt doesn't matter.
and there will always be demand for usd as long there is demand for oil, us products or services (which basically includes like 80% of the internet)
t. European

>>21804215
first of all fags openly acknowledge that the dollar is not backed by anything and is freely printed as needed
then they circlejerk about debt nominated in said nothing but air...

logic?

>>21813997
If there's so much demand for the dollar, then why do they have to keep printing trillions of dollars to keep up the demand artificially?

>>21814020
>the fed is printing dollars to keep up the demand for the dollar
Did you even think it through before writing your post?

>>21810592
You just borrow more money to pay previous debts, we're doing it right now and it works marvellously

>>21814020
no, the demand and partly the velocity of money is the reason why there is no inflation with double digits, at least from my perspective, yet the inflation calculation can be skewed, when they contain too many products that are delationary like electronics (like flatscreens became cheaper)

>>21813944
>>21813944
>>21813944
>>21813944
"A scenario which is a bit more worrying for the global economy... a scenario that many people have been predicting for years and is now slowly beginning to unfold, and will begin to rapidly unfold...
this kind of world-changing event will be a strong downward trend in the global financial system, mainly around things like solvency and various other dynamics that will come into question: corporate solvency, sovereign debt, various kinds of levels... where people are going to start to question the brand promises behind the assets they hold."
"If such an event occurs because of certain failures in financial markets, we will see that people wake up to the various guarantees and promises of these institutions. Because the actual promises are much weaker than people think. Guarantees about ownership or value preservation or any guarantees on assets in the larger financial system are more fragile than they appear on their face. If that fragility becomes exposed (...) people will then look for other guarantees. They will look for math-based guarantees, cryptographic guarantees...
or what we call Smart Contracts."

-SN

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0H1QhfJSTeEHggoWFt7Bc3?si=hyxUk9o2QtuH08aWyp6DVQ

>>21804232
I can smell your bagels from here schlomo, fuck off with your usury

>>21808627
That's exactly how it works.

>>21804477
>Immediately goes for muh red vs bloo
Confirmed brainlet, both sides are going to fuck you financially no matter what

>>21804215
I'm taking my SUTER bags and moving to Switzerland.

>>21804764
Not clicking that link jewboi

>>21813236
My neighbor's funko pops were utterly decimated by the coronavirus.
I just got back from the funeral service. Still in tears.
WEAR THE MASK PEOPLE it saves lives

>>21804980
Because you have to pay the debt for niggers and beaners being a net deficit on society.

>>21814070
If by demand for the dollar he meant
>Gibs me dat
Then yeah, he thought it through

>>21805120
This nigga gets it
Just know the UN is also shilling for a cashless society which makes brrring easier to hide and makes the goyim's financial transactions all available to them in a matter of seconds. And don't act like it won't lead to a social credit score like China has, I mean our current credit system is just a kighter version of that anyway.

>>21805479
This, at this point the public will accept nothing less than effective open-ended UBI. And they can use the ballot box to make sure any candidate who wants to win keeps the stimulus flowing.

>>21806108
This is very true, Governments have forgotten that I’m return for robbing us blind the least they have to do is maintain the country. They have forgotten this, therefore I feel no obligation to pay British taxes, I might as well pay taxes anywhere I feel no loyalty to Britain anymore, might as well directly pay it to Nigeria. I will avoid taxes as hard as possible, and give what I would have paid directly to my local church

>>21814334
Not asking to be spoon-fed, but what's some good material on SUTER to read up on?

>>21814497
UBI will be as effective as the bread dole, but at least you could eat bread
Money cannot be eaten, especially if it is devalued to be worth less than the paper it's printed on.

>>21805479
Thing is you're completely right
Everything is going to gradually decay, life will get shittier every year and we won't be able to do shit

>>21804254
>>21804232
retards that don't know what SDRs are.
>>21804471
>>21804260
>>21804477
>>21805257
>>21814014
These retards don't understand double entry bookkeeping
>>21804980
>>21805041
>>21805126
You need to pay your taxes as they are used solely to pay the interest ONLY on the national debt. Look up 'the Grace Commission'.
>>21807778
Kek you don't understand WHY they were removed in the first place.
>>21813997
Something like 70% of global transaction are in USD, the global demand is what's going to kill the dollar.

>>21814520
>the least they have to do is maintain the country
They have never and will never do this, just remember that.

>>21814335
>>21814520
Good, the poll ain't for limeys.

>>21810019
Found the kike

>>21814070
I was unclear with my message. US economy is tanking, they print money to helicopter out to everyone so they would create demand for the economy and "save it" that way(which doesn't work). This will have the effect of US dollar becoming more and more worthless in international trade(oil etc.) as only a retard would swap a tangible good for a piece of paper that has a rapidly dropping value in comparison to any other good.

>>21814070
I'd guess you forgot about the REPO window, funny that COVID came along & solved the issue

>>21804587
>borrow $10k from yourself
>issue more currency to pay back debt on yourself
>adjust taxes and interest rates to combat possible inflation
That's what happens all the time lad.

>how to fix the national debt problem
>close off trade to the outside world
>except outgoing trade
>get everyone hooked bad on sugar
>sell sugar until debt is down and everyone is fat as shit
>debt lowered, and less likely to be enforced because everyone is fat and lazy

National debt is a meme at this point though, there is no chance we'll get rid of the deficit any time soon, and even if we could, it would take centuries to pay back the debt.
Right now the debt is being paid, often by contracting more debt, but that won't last forever.

>>21814865
>The debt means nothing because we're kicking the can down the road
This entire thread is filled with shit like this too

>>21814865
I had a polisci professor who said we a ton make money off just holding the debt, and outside parties trading it between eachother, but I highly doubt it's enough to be worth it without just printing loadsamoney and paying it back when each dollar is only worth like a hundred thousandth of a cent

>>21814909
Ever heard of the repudiation of debt at the Russian Revolution? The day a coutrny decides it isn't paying national debt anymore, what happens?

>>21814865
>the debt is being paid, often by contracting more debt
last week i paid off my visa by putting it on my mastercard

>>21814968
But did you get 2% cash back?

>>21814951
This coronavirus shit proved that something like that will never happen. If it does it'll be over dumb shit that doesn't matter like muh racisms.

>>21814982
yes, and i invested it with this bernie madoff guy
he has a plan to do the same thing on a massive scale

>>21815028
What better feeling is there than jewing the jew?

>>21815011
Why would the corona have triggered a repudiation of debt? Wouldn't make sense

>Fed creates money from nowhere
>Loans it to the banks
>Banks buy treasury bills (at a profit)
>Banks sell treasury bills to the Fed (more profit)
>Taxpayers pay interest to the Fed (even more profit)
>Fed's stockholders pay themselves a 6% dividend
>Repeat until currency collapse

God bless America

>>21814929
I can't believe there are professors who believe in Keynesian policies rofl

>>21815184
I propose we go back to currency backed by wet ass pussy

>>21804721
It's probably an understatement

One of the consequences of the liberties afforded by fractional reserve banking is a suppression in the silver spot price [relative to fiat]. Modern silver markets are buyers markets, probably because over 50% of the yearly demand is industrial (whereas for gold it is sub 8%), so the majority shareholder’s preferences are reflected (those of industrial buyers).

On the civilisational scale, our desire for cheap stuff has overridden our ability to value our own labour.

Whereas 1 ounce of silver could have got you 4 cows in the Viking age, you’d need about 45 ounces of silver for just one cow today! Ouch!

>>21804215
probably another 100 years

>>21814929
Your professor is braindead

>>21815362
>tfw no cow

>>21815362
gold is also devalued compared to its origin retard