/biz/ - Business & Finance

so what

>>21345008
what?

Yes

>believing in the free market is right wing
you cunts are relentless

>>21345103
>>21345146
>>21345103
I mean literally what's the point? You don't have theories. You don't think. You just say "the invisible sky hand will fix everything"
Why do you need to pretend that's a job? That you need to debate any standings when you only have one?

>>21345512
>the free market is not a theory

>>21345008
>Free market
>Right wing
Wut

>>21345566
Liberals debate about whether taxes should go up or down, the money supply, money injections etc
Conservatives just have "lets not do anything and let the invisible hand solve the problems" and then thats the end of the discussion

>>21345512
judging from your first question and how you phrase to this post you might just be the kind of retard that no one actually wants to get into an in-depth discussion with. So that's always a possibility that you are just an absolute faggot.
Economists actually do things as in they have a job. They are paid to do work. No one in that field on either side believes what you think they do. No one can address your question here because your premise is flawed. You absolutely fucked nugget

>>21345512
the free market is a position that has to be defended from actual brain dead morons like yourself

PWEESE DADDAH GUBMENT GIB ME WELFARE
>Gets beaten by cops and arrested for smoking a joint

>>21345683
this.
it's so tiresome

>>21345635
That's a retarded reductionist argument. Conservative economists don't believe a "magic sky hand" can fix anything, they are saying that "magic sky hand" i.e less government intervention usually results in better overall economy than planned economy. They have the entirety of human history as proof that countries with central planning are always miserable behind countries that have market mechanisms.

>libertarian
>right-wing

>>21345854
What about Friedman and Rand?

3rd positionist economics is the superior option. nationalism and socialism, government controls markets and makes decisions on the behalf of normal people while working and negotiating with the capitalist class. ex (Give your workers more money and recreation area's or else we'll give your factory to someone who will)

>>21346098
Again that's only assuming the government gives a shit about workers and not how much money the plant will make for the state. China has in effect third position economy but they allow virtually slave labour conditions to maximise the bottomline. It all depends on the people in leadership and the culture of the country. Germans won't treat other Germans that way but bugmen will

>>21345008
Exactly! And that's why Austrian economics is marginalized even though it's the only paradigm that remotely makes sense. Economics academics have a vested interest in creating jobs for economists and academics, and giving politicians an excuse to piss away money is a great way to do it. There is a small market for right wing economists to cater to autists on the Internet and rich people in exchange for some talks and book sales here and there, but it's nowhere near as big.

>>21345008
>right wing means le epic free market
right wing means anti jew you fucking moron

>>21345854
>planned economy
explain China.

the fact that u are on a chainlink board, does it not prove to you that free market fixes everything? First there was btc, then smart contract then oracle in span of 10 years.

>>21346036
Friedman and Rand are not ancaps they are classical liberal economists in the true sense of the word. Friedman's policies were successful in the 80s because the 70s were experiencing stagflation because of the economic policies of Nixon and Carter. Friedman's policies helped start a second economic boom and reverse the stagflation, however unfortunately they produced other unintended consequences such as free trade with countries like China destroying whole groups of people who became unemployed and depressed. Friedman has contribute a lot to economics and.in general is one dlodnthe few Jews I like. He himself was good at admitting his mistakes and always earned about unintended consequences. He wasn't immune from them either.

>>21346220
China is not a planned economy you retard. Just because they have "communist" in their name doesn't mean they are actually communist. China is defacto a fascist ethostate with a 3rd position economy

>>21346322
>Rand is not ancap

>>21346362
how is it not at least a mixed economy? they're the only country in the world that fixes their own exchange rates and replaces board members of large companies with government operatives.. how are they not planned?

>>21345512
Maybe, though theoretically possible, it is in practical terms impossible to correct a pendulum dead by hitting it in exactly the right spot at exactly the right angle with an exact amount of force.

Maybe, because there are controlling and authoritarian psychopaths willing to be sold a lie that such a thing is actually achievable or desirable in order to justify their constant expansion of the halls of power to smooth brained socialists and promote the politically expedient lie that infinite gibs can be provided by borrowing (and subsequent debasement of currency to alleviate the mid term problems)

Maybe, we need a whole branch of modern economics to debunk this thinking and emphasize that mass decision making on an individual level, IE without central direction, will see self correcting bounces around the average line of activity without the knock on effects of heavy handed central intervention creating other problems which are completely unquantifiable and unknowable in detail but taken at a macro level transparently destructive.

What about the long run, Keynes?

>>21346185
That's why a strong dictator is required for it, voted in democratically. From there a council system should be set up along with a general populace vote. The dictator would have control over most sectors and have an overruling say, but would listen to various councils on economic/military decisions.

>>21346401
By planned I mean an economy where the government makes all the decisions, determines all the prices, and owns and operates all businesses and industry. "Mixed" in your context means a national socialst economy which has elements of planning bit it still largely market force driven

>>21346377
You clearly haven't met actual ancaps. A person who is an unironic ancap is never gonna be allowed into Congress . I guess from your perspective he is as radical as it gets lol

>>21346403
>What about the long run, Keynes?
What makes you think I am a proponent of Kenyesian economics?

>>21345512
it's only invisible to retards like you

that's why they had to name it, kek, to explain to brain dead brain craters how the world works

i guess its over your head. here is a beginners lesson on how reality works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFxvy9XyUtg

My guess is that you will ignore it though and learn nothing

>>21346542
wrong Rand

>>21345008
Economics is a bullshit science. There’s a reason why it’s not considered STEM. I changed my major from Econ to math/cs minored in Econ and never looked back. All my Econ buddies are working 100+ hours a week in ibanking while I make the same amount of money as a developer but working less than half the time.

>>21345008
Friedman was a stalinist, but otherwise yes. Government spending money has caused the wealth divide and retarded what otherwise could have been a healthy enduring economy.

On the other hand fiat being trash is so insanely bullish for crypto it will make us all disgustingly rich. ...and the stimulus pumps in the mean-time will juice our shitcoin gains making for daily entertainment.

In this sense, dumb politicians and the Jew bankers manipulating them are giving us an amazing gift.

>>21345008
Government is the market.

>the end

>>21346494
Russia is an example of that. However there the problem is that the democratically elected dictator enriches himself and his Jewish oligarchs and doesn't give two fucks about the working people. Corruption is ingrained in Russian culture so again it comes down ultimately to the national mentality and culture.

>>21346572
Oh you meant Ayn Rand? Yeah I personally don't like her, I mean she is a woman writer so you can't seriously consider her an economist. She is a utopian retard like most women, but unlike most women she believes in an ancap utopia instead of commie utopia

>>21345008

It's like being an onlooker to early modern medicine. You see the pointy beaks, the leeches, the mercury and lead. You see the surgeon sneezing into someone's open wounds, refusing to wash their hands as they deliver children and then you kill yourself because they're bullying you for suggesting they wash their hands.

I wouldn't blame that guy for wanting to keep the 'doctors' as far away from him as possible.

>>21345008
I'll spell it out for you :

K
L
E
R
O
S

fyi Friedman himself didn't believe in a truly laissez-faire economy. he believed that certain industries should be nationalised like telecoms and trains

the state is always worse with managing money than invidiual or private company

>>21347037
can you prove that?

>>21345008
You're wrong, government should not have anything to do with the markets, this includes banking and money. Governments and Keynesian policies cause the boom/bust cycle

>>21345008
macroeconomics is about interest rate and its manipulation

>>21347355
back that up

>>21346401
They still act in the global markets which is the source of their wealth. They would still be an absolute shithole(like 99% of the country still is) if it was not for globalisation.

>>21346494
You're wrong there, any central leader(king, dictator etc) will fail due to having limited information available. Representative democracy fails because of this as well. When the amount of people making the decision drops, the amount of information drops and then you get the commie problems of producing the wrong things etc. because the market is not there to guide the producers to consumer demand. The market works so well because the prices are determined by everyone involved and not a central figure

>>21347285
sure look at Venezuela or how Sweden is now in decline as the money running out and they starting to have problem with all the social benefits they did offered

>>21347381
Interest rates are set for political reasons. If the interest rates are lower than the "natural interest rate" it causes overspending and malinvestment, which causes the economy tank eventually. Because economy can only go up, voted officials will do anything to keep their votes and drop the interest rates further which begins the cycle anew. We have now arrived at the end game of this cycle with interest rates having been around zero for a decade in Europe with a very poor recovery from the last bust.

>>21347285
if you know any country where state companions doing better than private bussines give me tip ..

>>21347543
*companies

>>21347463
There could still be democratic aspects, the dictator would just have the overuling say-so. So different groups performing different functions could have democratic ways of doing things (Boards and committees). Just if anything went against the leaders wishes, he could do something. and if the leader does something bad, the people could apply pressure on the leader or the military could. It's a better system of responsibility to the people rather than faceless bureaucrats having the ultimate say-so.

I believe in the larouche-riemann method of physical economy.

>>21345008
Even Friedman believed the government should do something

Tho his idea of negative income tax is slightly retarded. His idea about school coupons I also don't really feel, but that one might work.

>>21345008
but yeah to answer your "question" (bait), yeah right wing economists just think the gov should do less or do things differently. Not that it should do nothing. Retarded strawman.

>>21347709
>Tho his idea of negative income tax is slightly retarded
why?

>>21345008
This is a board about crypto

>>21347771

>>21347802

im no expert but ive read about 2 pages of this macroeconomics book, what's so wrong about bailing out corporations with 2 trillion dollars? i mean if the big corps go bankrupt we'll have a bunch of jobless people thus creating more economic harm in the long run right?

>>21347829
Supply and demand would take care of income
>people would make up fake jobs
And they government would just fall for it?

>>21347543
that being said i belive that some basic shit should be in the hands of state even if its economicaly negative

public transport
healthcare
school
army
shelf
firefighter
should be in the hand of the state
but everything else should be private
my problem with modern leftists are not in the economic sense
it is the support for degeneracy and the whole anti western sentiment

they also support lot of crazy policies that contradict
for exampe they crying about wages and that healt care is not public but they also want open borders shit like this making me think that these people are either economicaly retarted or evil who do not give actualy shit about the lower class people

>>21347857
so then they put money in checking up on people to make sure the jobs are real

That's probably a bigger administrative cost than checking they are actively looking for work, the very thing of the current system Friedman was against.

>Supply and demand would take care of income
Not if government gibs distorts the system

>>21345008
Basically the government should be the judge and not the moderator

>>21347285
maybe because the government is 26 trillion in debt you absolute ignoramus

>>21345683
this op
kill yourself.

>>21347654
I see what you mean, you want accountability. This is something that is seriously lacking in our current version of representative democracy. Democracy also ironically has the downside of lack of information I mentioned, normal streetwalker won't have an educated opinion on political or economic issues but they still are allowed to vote.

DESU I think the best way would be to have voting as a voluntary thing, you could remove your right to vote but if you wanted to vote you MUST vote on all subjects. Maybe have a simple test of sorts to enable your right to vote on economics for example.