/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>20965698
Based. How difficult would it be to roll this out on something like uniswap? And will it have much of a difference or are their contracts already pretty simple?

>>20965698
And oh yeah look how L1 and L2 interact:

"Since Arbitrum contracts and transactions are byte-for-byte compatible with Ethereum, supporting the Reddit contracts is as simple as launching them on an Arbitrum chain.

Minting. Arbitrum Rollup supports hybrid L1/L2 tokens which can be minted in L2 and then withdrawn onto the L1. An L1 contract at address A can make a special call to the EthBridge which deploys a "buddy contract" to the same address A on an Arbitrum chain. Since it's deployed at the same address, users can know that the L2 contract is the authorized "buddy" of the L1 contract on the Arbitrum chain.

For minting, the L1 contract is a standard ERC-20 contract which mints and burns tokens when requested by the L2 contract. It is paired with an ERC-20 contract in L2 which mints tokens based on whatever programmer provided minting facility is desired and burns tokens when they are withdrawn from the rollup chain. Given this base infrastructure, Arbitrum can support any smart contract based method for minting tokens in L2, and indeed we directly support Reddit's signature/claim based minting in L2."

Ring any bells? How did they know?

>>20966064
It's almost like it's native compatible and will be part of the proposed solution or something:

"The benchmarks described in this document were all measured using the latest internal build of our software. When we release the new software upgrade publicly we will launch a Reddit Universe Arbitrum Rollup chain as a public demo, which will contain the Reddit contracts as well as a Uniswap instance and a Connext Hub, demonstrating how Community Points can be integrated into third party apps. We will also allow members of the public to dynamically launch ecosystem contracts. We at Offchain Labs will cover the validating costs for the Reddit Universe public demo."

>>20966124
Oh nice, that's pretty huge. Biz seems to be behind the ball on anything Arbitrum related, so anons might start talking about it a couple months from now.

>>20965698
smart anons. can you get uniswap using this? like is that possible?

>>20966309
If any of the big brains were still around there would be a bunch of replies with anons putting together how fucking huge this is. Specifically:

Reddit's application involves locking/burning on L1 and reissuance on L2. This appears to be the entire model for Arbitrum/link's scaling schema because transferring 0.16 link a million times doesn't make sense at current gas prices.

So what does that mean?

It means NOT ONLY will every chain partner be locking L1 ETH based Link to reissue on their chain but every commercial application will do the same. And on top of this it needs validators to ensure the L1 link has been locked and issue the L2 Link. Which is a cross chain communication task that chainlink does and gets paid for.

And there will only ever be 1bn link.

Every node that wants jobs needs to lock link
Every non-eth execution chain needs to lock link
Every L2 solution needs locked L1 link AND needs to pay the chainlink network to validate that it's L2 link is equivalent to L1 ETH link

And there will only ever be 1bn link.

Oh yeah, and every node request, every API call and every other world changing function of chainlink will be paid only in link.

>>20966085
>Ring any bells? How did they know?
no please elaborate anon

>>20966444
Checked
Arbitrum as part of link is built to be directly analogous and seamless to level 1 eth solidity
So yes, once optimistic rollups hit I would suspect every major gas consumer on eth will port as fast as they can

And remember that's only the first stage (cutting gas costs by 3x to 25x). Once AnyTrust launches there is zero obligation to pay eth anything.

And that's after users have a few months under their belts of getting addicted to low cost solidity executions through Arbitrum rollup.

And after people get used to trusting Chainlink nodes at the same level as they trust Eth mainnet.

The next 12 months are going to make the last 3 years look like nothing.

>>20966500
damn. its sad to see threads like these with retards like myself mainly and little replies. i read this a week ago and it was amazing read. i hope reddit picks arbritum because it seems like the easiest solution to implement with much more control over development and smart contracts. incredibly bullish.

>>20966124
I don’t understand how Arbitrum intends to make money. They don’t have a token and plan to use Chainlink nodes to validate transactions correct? Can anyone explain this? Sorry if I’m being stupid.

>>20966624
>Once AnyTrust launches there is zero obligation to pay eth anything.
im gonna read this, i wasnt aware of this. i wish i could go tit for tat with you. the will is there but the knowledge does not exist. im just excited for the future.
is arbritum flying under the radar in crypto? seems very niche. i hope this reddit thing will make people pay attention.

>>20966085

>>20966540
This was a joke relating to early research into chainlink, specifically that the team has from the very beginning had cross chain communication as a core feature of the network. Nobody understood and some BTC maximalist level idiots used it as evidence the team had no idea what they were doing.

To be honest, almost nobody STILL understands what this means from a big picture level. Link having this function, at scale and at low cost now commoditizes all of their competitors offerings while monopolizing their own. This is why the team is so unfairly ahead: only people with access to big swinging dick business/finance minds would think of that kind of division of spoils years in advance.

Let me explain:

What smart contract initial blockchain prints? Or smart contract executions?
In a cross chain enabled ecosystem EVERY execution chain is now in a race to the bottom for posting and executing your contract.

But guess what isn't in any race?
The people who own the single-source data inputs that the entire ecosystem is dependent on. And the people who own the API and payment outputs that the entirety of legacy business/finance legally HAS to use, whether they like it or not.

Remind me, what network owns those inputs and outputs?

>>20966692
Imagine you're a person running a series of contracts on eth mainnet now. You can:

- Pay huge gas costs to use L1
- Use the EXACT same contracts via arbitrum with the same security guarantees and pay way less in link per execution (and of course if you don't want to buy link, the contracts can be paid in literally any decentralized asset that can pass through a dex or communicate cross chain via chainlink)

>>20966874
>What smart contract initial blockchain prints? Or smart contract executions?
>In a cross chain enabled ecosystem EVERY execution chain is now in a race to the bottom for posting and executing your contract.
>But guess what isn't in any race?
>The people who own the single-source data inputs that the entire ecosystem is dependent on. And the people who own the API and payment outputs that the entirety of legacy business/finance legally HAS to use, whether they like it or not.
>Remind me, what network owns those inputs and outputs?
so your saying - every platform (eth) in a multi-platform environment is competing for the cheapest costs to posting and executing contracts.
chainlink, the data network, has no such race to the bottom, especially since they will most likely be the main network in usage. so chainlink network will hold its value (and increase it with more usage) whereas something like eth will leak its value due to competition. did i get that correctly?

>>20966500
Man did they all really make their money and dip? They;ve gotta still be in it, that or just too comfy to care.

>>20967011
Exactly

>>20966963
Yes I understand that part but how does OffchainLabs make money? I know they had venture capital to start with but how are they paid for their services. Do you license the software or what? Thanks for explaining.

>>20967089
To truly give zero fucks you're looking in the 50mm range
The big OG wallets were 800k-200k
Even the big old anons aren't there yet
I'd guess they still lurk

Im too stupid to understand the technical stuff but to me it sounds like 10k stinkies might actually be enough to make it, dopamine is increasing again at last.

>>20966963
>Use the EXACT same contracts via arbitrum
What's the advantage of doing this via Arbitrum, rather than something like Athereum on Avax?
https://athereum.avax.network/

Based thread, anon. I was excited about the Arbitrum news when first announced but you've added a lot of good detail here.
I think it's just news fatigue with linkies. It's hard to maintain a hunger for breadcrumbs for years, especially after it already feels like everything is a lock.

>>20967132
The most logical explanation would be that they received a large chunk of link in exchange for natively integrating their technology into the chainlink network
It also wouldn't surprise me if Sergey took some of the large amount of free cash they have and made an upfront payment with link payments as milestones

Again, pure speculation
But I can say that when you work with people as reputable and high up as Ed Felten you can do those kinds of deals with little risk of getting screwed

>only useful post on biz

>>20966444
They already have an l2 solution they're working on
unipig --- you can try a demo of it right now
abritrum is not the only game in town and works a lot like other rollup solutions do
next year will be huge for eth

I can’t comprehend any post itt

>>20967266
>https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/i1g5cc/scaling_reddit_community_points_with_arbitrum/
checked. im gonna guess. its simpler and quicker. requires no custody. and no centralized authority.

>>20967331
Ed has mentioned that there will be other validators other than link.

>>20967260
How strong are your hands?
>>20967266
Remember what chainlink owns:
- The highest quality data providers
- All of the legacy ERP etc frontends
- All of the legacy (msft, goog, oracle) tech vendors
- All of the legacy outputs (banks, asset ownership systems etc.)

They own the entire deal flow from start to finish, the middle (execution part) matters the least as it's now commoditized but still the default pathway will be at chainlink's discretion because all of the customer volume comes through the above.

Of course because Sergey is an egalitarian there will be the option to use any other scaling/execution solution but the default will be arbitrum, and how many CTO's are going to put their jobs on the line to deviate from the standard?

Why would it go anywhere else?

>>20967266
>>20967365
We include a comparison to several other categories as well as specific projects when appropriate. and explain why we believe that Arbitrum is best suited for Reddit's purposes. We focus our attention on other Ethereum projects.

Payment only Rollups. Compared to Arbitrum Rollup, ZK-Rollups and other Rollups that only support token transfers have several disadvantages:

As outlined throughout the proposal, we believe that the entire draw of Ethereum is in its rich smart contracts support which is simply not achievable with today's zero-knowledge proof technology. Indeed, scaling with a ZK-Rollup will add friction to the deployment of smart contracts that interact with Community Points as users will have to withdraw their coins from the ZK-Rollup and transfer them to a smart contract system (like Arbitrum). The community will be best served if Reddit builds on a platform that has built-in, frictionless smart-contract support.

All other Rollup protocols of which we are aware employ a centralized operator. While it's true that users retain custody of their coins, the centralized operator can often profit from censoring, reordering, or delaying transactions. A common misconception is that since they're non-custodial protocols, a centralized sequencer does not pose a risk but this is incorrect as the sequencer can wreak havoc or shake down users for side payments without directly stealing funds.

Sidechain type protocols can eliminate some of these issues, but they are not trustless. Instead, they require trust in some quorum of a committee, often requiring two-third of the committee to be honest, compared to rollup protocols like Arbitrum that require only a single honest party. In addition, not all sidechain type protocols have committees that are diverse, or even non-centralized, in practice.

Plasma-style protocols have a centralized operator and do not support general smart contracts.

>>20967270
Sounds about right
>>20967365
Or eth finally gets locked in the cuckshed by L2
>>20967530
Read the post. They don't even have clear plans for how to monetize the arbitrum native validators. They're looking at other infrastructure providers who are going to validate for free?

*yawn*

>>20967331
Okay I read the Arbitrum white paper and now I’m even more confused. Did you see the part about burning tokens in the event there is a dispute?

What tokens are they talking about burning if they don’t have a token? I feel like there is a big piece of this missing that is yet to be revealed.

>>20967609
>scalibility on eth finally solved
>this locks eth in the cuckshed

This is why I can't fuck with you linkies these days. You're such fucker deluded homers you miss what's right in front of you.

Is a rollup just a collection of executions/transactions rolled up into a single one?
>sorry for brainlet question, eager to understand

>>20967266
Probably no one wants to deal with another coin on top of everything else?

>>20967796
what happens when gas is free

Yeah but what does this have to do with my lambo

>>20967913
A lot more people use Ethereum?

no stacking no scaling.
simple as that
Sergay betrayed us

>>20967913
I don’t think gas is ever going to be free. It will probably end up being some kind of trade system where you have to validate transactions on your computer in order to get your transactions validated.

i dont trust the commie ETH 2.0 devs. what are the odds they dont pull of an DAO 2.0?

i am all with you OP, actual computer scientist and no script kiddies

Can anyone explain this token burn thing to me? I don’t get it.

>>20968068
Yeah, I wonder what it means for ETH total value if gas fees are reduced to nearly nothing or whatever is the theoretic lower limit

>>20968423
It will probably still go up with adoption and staking even if gas costs decrease significantly.

>>20968123
Holy fuck

All of you niggers that got all excited for arbitrum don't understand that this is still years behind of what stakenet is building? Raiden + lighting network + cross chain

>>20966874
>In a cross chain enabled ecosystem EVERY execution chain is now in a race to the bottom for posting and executing your contract.
that doesn't even make any sense. The contract is only as safe as the network it's on. You appear to be under the fundamental mistake that ethereum and other blockchains are just a new version of computing cloud.
>The people who own the single-source data inputs that the entire ecosystem is dependent on
That would be the data source, so if a contract requires closing data from nasdaq, then nasdaq indeed has a natural monopoly.
How that data gets transferred to the blockchain is of no consequence and the cheapest option wins. As long as chainlink funds tx fees its cost is negative, so it may well be the cheapest - at the cost of link holders.
>And the people who own the API and payment outputs that the entirety of legacy business/finance legally HAS to use, whether they like it or not.
when your entire idea rests on a legal requirement to use chainlink and chainlink only you should know it's nonsense. That's never going to happen.

>>20968123
Guess we know what's going to happen to the 350MM

>>20968854
DELET THIS

Optimistic rollups themselves are only a temporary scalability hack before full zkrollups. They compromise on trust (risk of congestion during fraud proof phase) and can't reduce storage requirements.

Claims that arbitrum somehow 'replaces' ethereum don't make sense, because the whole point of a rollup is to post everything on-chain. Every rollup only multiplies the scalability of ethereum. While fees may go down initially, there are enough potential users to grow the total number of transactions by orders of magnitude.

>>20968854
Yes, I imagine 25% of the people here know that but we also know they are a coinbase venture with no known ICO date meaning when it does come out it will pump just like all coinbase venture coins do.

>>20966692
I imagine they will do an ICO during a peak bullrun to max their valuation

I rather they do it now but I mean its smart to do it post-covid and when ETH is blasting.

>>20969297
>there are enough potential users to grow the total number of transactions by orders of magnitude.
i think this is what people are missing. less gas=more adoption=more transactions

>>20968854
>raiden
>lightning network
channel networks are dead. It has an enormous number of unsolvable problems, low security due to relying on fraud proofs (something it shares with optimistic rollup), problems with capacity during routing, percentage fees during routing, the requirement to be online to receive funds.
The absolute lack of LN adoption proves this empirically. It's trash.

The golden standard is a zk-rollup. The way things are going it's probably going to be baked into ethereum as a special shard (during phase 2), eventually fully dominating. In the medium term either AZTEC or Matter Labs solution (zksync) is going to dominate.

>>20968854
>still talking about LN
Nigger stop your buzzword salad and get your ducks in a row

>>20967913
Gas will never be free. The whole point of gas is to prevent people from running infinite loops and spamming the blockchain with unnecessary transactions.

sneed

>>20967465

same lol but i think this means buy more link

That’s a lot of fancy words and talk you got there partner. What say you just cut all that there computer talk and tell me how I profit from this?

>>20969297
wen loli smart contracts coming out?

You need to understand what Chainlink+Arbitrum means.

Right now Ethereum mainnet is the base layer of truth but it is being used beyond its means and becoming clogged. Many are waiting for scaling but the reality is that other layers of computation are better suited in most cases.

To compute a smart contract, you must share the private details of it with every single ethereum node, pay a load of gas, and wait minutes for every node and random stranger to process it.

Now enter Chainlink and Arbitrum. You can instead create a Chainlink job, not for off chain data, but for off-chain processing. Now you can take that heavy lifting and process it off of Ethereum. You can select a handful of specific and highly reputable nodes with verified security features like SGX to process your request and pay only nodes to do so. You save money, you gain privacy, and you gain rapid processing speeds. The result is then given to the Ethereum mainnet without Ethereum doing any of the work.

Instead of paying high ETH gas fee, you now pay low LINK gas fees and you get the privacy and speed required for enterprise adoption.

>>20970193
you're wrong, arbitrum puts everything on ethereum. There's no privacy gain.
Every block gets signed by arbitrum node(s), probably a random node every block.
>The result is then given to the Ethereum mainnet without Ethereum doing any of the work.
No, it's not. The entire transaction data is given to ethereum because optimistic rollups need to execute everything on-chain in case of a fraud dispute. If some node(s) sign an invalid state transition they get penalized.

>>20970442
>There's no privacy gain
Nigger it's like you haven't ever heard of mixicles

Everybody keep going. This is interesting reading.

>>20970193
Bruh you don't know who >>20970736 is do you... big yikes.

>>20970830
yes, us smooth brains are getting 1% of it

>>20969633
checked. hi ari

I think I get it... and that worries me, because I shouldn’t.

Keep talking guys, this is interesting.

>>20967241
>800k-200k
Did you mean 80k-200k?

>>20965698
No memeing what does that have to do with Chainlink

>>20970922
True facts. However, the more we DYOR, the more we will understand and retain.

>>20971520
Nothingburger but when offchain labs does their private and public sale, I am going in deep.

>>20965698
Swingies get the rope.

>>20967755
They originally were going to use their own value asset
Now they are using link by default and potentially other decentralized assets should non chainlink node operators want to join as validators
And collect only arbitrum fees
Instead of arbitrum+VRF+cross chain+DECO fees

You know, like how IT infrastructure admins like to collect less for their work rather than more

>>20967796
Maybe some math will help you
0.1*lots more = maybe more, maybe less
0*lots more = 0

>>20967807
It's an execution methodology that prints subtotal information to the ETH chain while allowing the participating parties proof that their computation was done correctly
>>20967913
This
>>20967934
See above
>>20968068
You're not keeping up with the discussion
>>20968111
Checked
Honestly it doesn't matter at this point
With their current absolute BEST case scenario development schedule Eth 2 is irrelevant
Belly ate Skelly
>>20968123
See above, guess why staking is next up on the CL team's docket
>>20968423
Yup, oh gee
>>20968493
Someone's strong suit isn't math
>>20968854
The best part about this comment is that even if it was true, which it's not, it wouldn't matter at all
The entity that controls the legacy frontends controls the smart contract flows
>>20968874
Exactly wrong. Chainlink chose arbitrum exactly because it does two things:
1. direct protability from eth (if your swaps and contracts work on eth, they work on arbitrum)
2. Direct analogy to eth's security guarantees (notice how they keep emphasizing the single honest validator aspect of the optimistic rollup)

>>20968985
Shoo shoo
>>20969297
Did you read the article?
Try reading for once
Rollups: Everything Eth does for 1/10th the gas
AnyTrust: Everything Eth does for zero gas (and a smaller link fee)
>>20969434
There will never be an arbitrum ICO
Try to keep up
>>20969451
0*number = what?
>>20969633
Again, the tradeoffs are explicit in the article and verifiable on the testnets
ZKP: shit tier functionality outside of simple value transfer (which you can do for nothing on any number of chains now)
Rollup: Delayed withdrawal with immediate finality
LN: Valueless in decentralized networks
>>20969662
On Eth you're correct
>>20969860
If you can't figure out what you should be buying here there is no hope for you
>>20970193
This
Remember only Link knew how important transaction logic privacy was from the beginning
There's a reason for this
>>20970442
Looks like someone's too cranky to read properly
>>20970830
>>20970922
>>20971155
All of the old link fags used to be you
>>20971520
https://www.cryptoninjas.net/2020/02/17/offchain-labs-integrates-chainlink-on-arbitrums-secure-off-chain-smart-contracts/
https://medium.com/offchainlabs/scalable-low-cost-computation-of-ethereum-smart-contracts-using-arbitrum-on-the-chainlink-8985c6542d4e

>>20972156
Wrong
>>20972186
Wow

bump

>>20972707
thank you fren for the knowledge

>>20967011
>>20967091
also this means we already have jobs built in above and beyond bussiness adoption. We'll have sufficient jobs to perform just within the current crypto sector communicating between chains.

>>20973675
Good thread

>>20973773
Accidental reply

>>20972671
based and pee pee poo poo pilled

One more piece of the puzzle being put in place. People are going to start seeing the bigger picture

>>20973801
i got excited that someone out there liked and appreciated me and now i know that just isn't so

bump

>>20966500
Checked. t. Little brain. So basically you are saying the way to profit from all of this is to just keep holding linkies?

>>20974245
I appreciate you, fren

Arbitrum is huge but it’s not being discussed because we know at smart con it will be announced that it was acquired by chainlink ... pee pee poo poo

>>20975382
If that happens I'm going to throw up.

>>20965698
Reading these reddit comments make me feel funny

based thread
gonna re-read it tomorrow when i'm mentally sharper
thanks bros

>>20975228
>So basically you are saying the way to profit from all of this is to just keep holding linkies?
That’s what we’ve been saying for 3 years straight

It's all coming together.

>>20965698
That's fucking impressive.

>>20975382
Wait. What? Is this for real or typical /biz/ BS?

>>20965698
So lets be real here

Sergey wanted us, like specifically us, to get rich, correct? Why?

>>20976376
because I are a SEED. and what do SEEDs do??????

>>20976376
>>20976490
I mean you*** :0)

>>20976490
Idk I never watched Gundam

>>20976490
oh shit just noticed the ID

bullish

>>20965698
Bumping this very good thread, haven't seen a good breadcrumb post here in ages.

>>20972406
You still didn’t answer my question. If Arbitrum doesn’t have an ICO and they intend to burn tokens, what tokens do they plan on burning?

Also, one of the biggest reasons Ethereum is not being adopted is GAS COSTS you moron. Gas costs fall= more adoption= more usage= higher token price. Math seems to be your weakness not mine you dumb fuck

>>20976376
Maybe. Could also have been Steve, Thomas, or a few others.

Ok so basically chainlink is enabling L2 solutions that will both require tons of link to be staked and scale smart contract adoption massively by somehow magically sidestepping the congestion of L1 ETH and, in doing so, making smart contract executions free since they will all be ran on L2.

So what this means for me is to all in LINK like I have been for years now. And never sell. Added bonus that eth is kill