/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>20805883
Now add in unfunded liabilities.
Only question is, what is the new currency system going to look like?

>>20806048
Not trying to shill, but AMPL might see significant upside once the effects of this absolute dumpster fire start to manifest. Stablecoins will be going down the shitter in this space, at aleast. As for how it's going to look in traditional finance - it's hard to tell. The question is, if the US economy even stands any chances of actually recovering from this. Uncertain times ahead.

>>20805883
What. The. Fuck.

>>20806153
>Not trying to shill, but AMPL
lol

>>20805883
Is this accounting for inflation?

>>20805883
There's no way anyone can pay, they will run high inflation for the next decade.

>>20806596
this
these faggots are fucking pathetic

>>20806596
>>20806674
I don't know. Find me another primitive that is not pegged to the current year US Dollar.

>>20806597
I've been trying to find out, but I can't really find any specifications on wether or not this is the case.

However, check this out:
This the lay of the land according to the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/us/politics/budget-deficit-coronavirus.html

"The federal government, which has been shoveling cash out the door to fund unemployment benefits, small-business loans and direct financial support to families, is on pace to borrow more money, as a share of the economy, than it has at any time since World War II."

That is fucking terrifying.

>>20805883
FUCK KEYNES
FUCK KEYNES
FUCK KEYNES

WTF HAPPENED IN 1971
http://https://wtfhappenedin1971.com

FUCK KEYNES
FUCK KEYNES
FUCK KEYNES

FUCK FIAT CURRENCY
FUCK FIAT CURRENCY
FUCK GLOWNIGGERS
FUCK JANNIES

>>20808320
retard

>>20808320
Not you guys too..

>>20808351
Why give an argument?

>Inb4 deflation

Yea and massive asset inflation to the point we are devolving into feudalism due to only being able to own a shitty house if you inherited it.

>>20808370
The entire world minus the eu that seems to have dodged the bullet since their leaders organized the eu gibs via mostly taxes instead of brrrrr.

lol republitards cant save, look at that shit

For these MMT proponents to be correct, we’re gonna have to tax the shit out of the rich to burn that money or face hyperinflation. You get one guess as to what congress will do.

>>20808402
wouldn’t be a problem if people had moved their money instead of sitting on dollars, dollars aren’t currency, they’re a unit of account

we moved to fiat at Breton woods, not in the 70s, and we moved because people were sitting on gold like they’re now sitting on dollars

keynes = spending on assets, not sitting forever on fiat

>>20805883
the US has been taken apart from the inside for quite a while
now we finally see the results

>>20805883
Don't worry. Americans are so thick that Kanye will be president soon.
He will save you AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

>>20808531
The rich hold their assets in lots of things. You’d have liquidate those things for dollars which would crash those markets and in the end you wouldn’t have made a dent in paying government debt.
Hyperinflation is the only future.

>>20808531
Still wrong. They will tax the middle class.

Why is the Dollar Index recovering?

>>20805883
So what?

>>20806048
>Now add in unfunded liabilities.
There's no difference between something being "funded" and non-"funded" for tomorrow purely nominally speaking. Increasing some random number today to claim it'll be worth something tomorrow makes little sense. If your taxing income to increase that number your just decreasing spending power today and if you aren't actually doing anything real to offset that accomplishing noting.

>>20806609
>There's no way anyone can pay
Why can't the government pay? The supply of dollars is theoretically infinite.


>>20808531
99% of wealthy retards don't spend much of their income and are fine with numbers just getting bigger to virtue signal their wealth.

>>20808640
For what purpose?

>>20808558
Yeah. The thing is, everyone who is somewhat financially intelligent will/or have already moved their liquid assets into gold. Some are even starting to move into BTC, which is why we have seen the recent rise to 11k.

People who don't really invest - or have been taught how to handle their finances, are going to be absolutely ANNIHILATED by this coming devaluation of the USD.

If you think things are bad now, give it five years.

>>20808531
by taxing the rich they mean taxing the middle class , this morons believe they can create a magical loop where you tax the middle class and reinject gibs to stimulate the economy and defeating the laws of thermodynamics.

Instead they will create insane bureaucracies that remove the power of society to innovate and crash everything.

MMT is retarded.

>>20808558
>wouldn’t be a problem if people had moved their money instead of sitting on dollars, dollars aren’t currency, they’re a unit of account

Why the fuck milennials which are the consumer generation due to their age should be "moving their money" , they are broke , can't own shit , housing is so inflated they are saving for something it could take decades for them to buy , most are now going back to live with their families due to how fucked up things truly are.

Boomers are broke too due to their pensions being shitty due to inflation.

>we moved to fiat at Breton woods, not in the 70s, and we moved because people were sitting on gold like they’re now sitting on dollars

Wrong , bretton woods was an hybrid system with game theory pretty similar to how bitcoin works , the game theory forced politicians to balance budgets because while the dollar was not convertible for civilians it was for governments and since gold has a natural inflation bellow 2% (and hardcore low inflation since the current 2% is meassured against food and not real estate anymore).

So the usd backed on gold with low inflation , backed other fiat which also had to balance budget to mantain the parity with the usd.

There was a game theory behind the thing , which is why france was able to demand it's gold when the usa went full retard with spending.

>keynes = spending on assets, not sitting forever on fiat

Yea which is why this bubble happened and now the entire thing is collapsing , savings are also needed or you end with poorer and poorer generations(even if they can buy more spaghetis due to economies of scale)

>>20808684
>So what?

Even though there is nothing new about inflation (and thereby the steady devaluation of the USD) - it's about to drop off a fucking cliff. It's going to be bloody. Not just metaphorically, but also quite literally, I would suspect.

>>20808684
Keynes did more damage to the western world than ww1 & ww2 combined.

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/union-scale-wages-hours-labor-3912/union-scale-wages-hours-labor-may-15-1921-492986?start_page=68

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/20s-homes.html

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS

check how long it would have taken to buy a house in 1920 when income tax and central banking was just implemented.

the ammount of hours needed to work on minimum wage to buy assets like housing has gone up insanely high it's unbelievable that a worker could buy a house with 14 months on minimum wage in the past and today it can take decades.

>>20808766
Lets say everyone buys gold and sits on it driving up its cost... so what? USD becoming cheaper is bad for Americas "creditors" and anyone trying export growth by selling to Americans.

>>20808950
Well ya just totally ignore the growth rates in mid century which were extremely unusually high. Look at the massive deflation in cost of stuff like computer power over the past century, totally insane and hyperdeflationary. Stuff like housing is expensive because that's an explicit goal of treating housing like an investment and not consumer good. Housing could be a lot cheaper but homeowners would prefer laws to keep prices going up faster than wages so they can profit.

>>20806559

Turns out paying everyone not to work is expensive, who knew

>>20809189

>Lets say everyone buys gold and sits on it driving up its cost... so what?
Markets aren't rational. It has been a meme in our society FOREVER, that gold is a store of value. This hasn't changed, and what I am saying will happen, is clearly going to happen at this point. Gold blew right through it's ATH a couple of days ago.

>USD becoming cheaper is bad for Americas "creditors" and anyone trying export growth by selling to Americans.
What do you propose people do then, hold a depreciating asset? No. Businesses are going under.

>>20809189
The post war was unusually good because there was a deal between keynsians and conservatives.

But the main reason why the post war was unusually good was because the generation from that time realize the world needed some governance to avoid conflict so things like containers for shipping were implemented , standards for everything , international organizations to finance projects like dams , lot's of long term planning which is the opposite of what today kensians do by thinking only five minutes ahead.

At least neoliberals and neokeynsians understand they need to care for the private sector to get a more prosperous society but their monetary policies have been insane.

>Look at the massive deflation in cost of stuff like computer power over the past century, totally insane and hyperdeflationary.

Moore law has nothing to do with economics, it's an engineering thing.

>Stuff like housing is expensive because that's an explicit goal of treating housing like an investment and not consumer good

Because housing like bitcoin has low inflation this is why after 1971 real estate become an investment, it wins against inflation due to it's low supply and contrary to gold which was shorted the shit for decades they can't short housing.

So boomer generation realized they could do this about buying lot's of real estate and win against inflation.

In all honestly all the system would need to work is an endorsement of cryptocurrency so all that smart capital leaves real estate and moves to crypto , so crypto can work as a way to get that pressure out , but the keynsians won't let that happen since they are control freaks.

>>20808801
why wouldn’t they move their money into assets? There are so many financial instruments available it’s absurd, but the average person is financially illiterate and has been fed fairy tales about what the dollar is and what their goal in life should be. Yes it’s very sad, it’s also a poisoning of the well by people who had power before keynesian principles were ever put into place, who pay their workers in dollars and never encourage them to buy anything but bullshit assets and cheap manufactured crap. The economy would be much more efficient if workers were educated and knew how to invest, but instead they are deliberately misdirected by the usual old money bad actors and the new money scammers. This isn’t the fault of keynes, whose monetary philosophy wrested at least some small segment of value for the peasant class by encouraging economies of scale

>>20809189
>Lets say everyone buys gold and sits on it driving up its cost... so what? USD becoming cheaper is bad for Americas "creditors" and anyone trying export growth by selling to Americans.

On this i agree it's good for the usa in this economic collapse circumstances but this is not a normal one , the whole world is going to shit , who the fuck is going to import burger goods when the whole economy is going to shit worldwide, china which is the biggest us importer is dumping the dollar and will probably stop importing us food if things continue to go to hell between the two countries.

Also the us may lost the reserve currency status if they don't inject fiat CASH fast as fuck , there is a serious lack of liquidity of cash usd around the world destroying international trade due to multiple exchange rates(for cash usd and digital usd).

>>20808684
>Why tax the middle class?
To take some of the money out of circulation. There is no where else to get it. Poors don't have it & the rich will hide it.

>>20809503
I disagree keynes it at fault , he opened the gates of hell for politicians to manipulate everything and soon we are going to end up all enslaved to each other due to the state preferring to create a fiat cashless slave society to tax everyone to hell.

Of course you can't cheat the laws of thermodynamics so it won't work but this system will take probably a decade to collapse with massive capital flight happening to god knows where.

>>20809571
The middle class is broke as fuck too ,yesterday i could not stop laughing on pol when a trumptard posted that the gibs meme of people not working due to trumpbux was bullshit and lot's of anons posting that they were making more with trumpbux since in their work they ended up making less after taxes.

So with gibsmedat they earned more because their labor would have been taxed below the gibsmedat.

Shit's insane middle class is broken as fuck , anything above the minimum living wage is taxed with income tax.

A few weeks ago i asked family members how much they earned on their first job and adjusted for inflation those first job wages would be paying high income taxes today.

>>20809732
>Shit's insane middle class is broken as fuck

Yeah. An event like the one that is about to happen, will take the huge wealth inequality gap that already exists now, and make it look like a small gap in five or six years.

Wealthy people are eventually going to become breakaway societies in affected countries.

>>20809860
I disagree people will escape and reorganize , many countries are already being the target of high net economic refugees it's happening fast as fuck.

>>20809946
Yeah, or this. I don't know about that so much for America though. It's a big country with concentrations of wealth in certain states. It could be more true there.

>>20809946
Look at Texas right now, for example. Attracting a lot of people, with A LOT of money.

What's the endgame? Communism in the USA?

>>20810077
Texas , Eastern europe , Uruguay, Israel, New Zealand.

Many countries will get economic refugees , those five areas above will be the ones that pull the most immigrants in this shitstorm.

>>20810127
There is no endgame keynsians think 5 minutes ahead , they will try to implement a cashless society , which will crash the velocity of money as it did in india , which will lead to a worse economic collapse that they will extend with gibs and larping by faking economic numbers.

>>20810193
USA will turn into a Mad Max type of place? Or more like Clockwork Orange?

>>20810127

>What's the endgame? Communism in the USA?
The conspiracy theorist would say, that we've been fighting world war three for a long time, in which countries have been chipping away at each others infrastructure and economy, from the inside.

America was destabilized.

The rationalist would say, that this is a natural consequence of capitalism, when a wrench like a pandemic is thrown into the works.

>>20810152
Is Eastern Europe still good if you only speak English?

>>20808649
dead cat bounce

>>20810367
No idea but it will be one of the targets of economic refugees due to the fact they are still ethnostates with their own language and historic geographic borders , small states will do better than big ones and eastern europe having many small states will dodge the bullet.

>>20810152
fuck that. I'm going to the phillippines. I already fucked almost an entire family there:

1) the 18 year old daughter, this all started with her. she was dtf a foreigner. 1 hour after meeting her I was barebacking her in my bed.
2) her 22 yo sister that I met while "dating" the 18 year old, she went behind her sisters back to get my creampie. Sister eventually found out. Drama....but we still fucked regularly.
3)the gay brother who was a ladyboy, sucked my dick and swallowed. Fucked him in the ass since he begged for it. Looked a lot like his sisters. 39kg and 5' 2". Prostate orgasm from being pounded. Pretty cute.
4)the 45 yo mom. I had known all of them for about two years at this point and she was well aware of what I was doing to her daughters. I seduced her and came inside of her.
5) the 35 yo aunt. I got her pregnant since she lived like 10minutes away and came over every day after he work to fuck and get a creampie. She was surprised she got pregnant (again). I wasn't. My kid from her is 4 years old now.
6) aunt 2. Met me through aunt 1. I fucked her while aunt 1 was in the other room. She knew. Begged me to cum inside of her. Had baby rabies since her sister was pregnant at the time and it was making her jealous.

Their other brother worked at sea on a ship so I couldn't get my hands on him. Dad was dead and probably rolling in his grave.

>>20809381
>>20809553
Typical doomer

>>20809449
Engineering is an economic activity, you gotta actually invest in risky shit... Moores law didn't just happen by magic. There was no similar investments finding novel ways to cheapen housing for some strange reason. I don't see why anyone would oppose cutting back on speculating on things that matter like land towards just more intangible stuff. Gamblings going to happen just minimize the damage it can cause to everyone.

>>20809571
If you also think they don't care about inflation than I don't know why you'd think would want to drain cash... you could do it but it wouldn't do much but have negative effects.

>>20810037
As an Okie citizen, I actualy got giddy with the Supreme Court decision about the Injun land, can't wait for the Creeks and Cherokees to tell Uncle Sam to fuck off and create a libertarian/low-tax confederacy when the USA goes to shit. Don't believe the drunk indian meme, these rich Indians down here are entrepreneurial as fuck.

>>20810223
See now this is a good reply. Hopefully it will be like Blade runner or Hungry Girl. I want fuckin sports and sexy young Jennifer Lawrence running around begging me for food

>>20811228
You are a disgusting reprobate.

>>20806153
Indian shit coin

>>20811346
>There was no similar investments finding novel ways to cheapen housing for some strange reason.

Because housing has fixed supply and a low inflation thus relative to fiat it will go up non stop.

>>20811228
Kek

>>20805883
Money's fake, just print more.
Before anyone calls bullshit: if the Rothschilds put a central bank in your country, your money is also fake and they can print more.

you tards thinking that when the west and the dollar collapses, random countries will welcome you with open arms will be in for a rude awakening
>>20810367
you'll be killed, they won't want any liberal faggots that kneel for dindus
>>20811228
definitely killed for revenge after the west have been going there on sex holidays for the last 50 years
>>20811593
100% smallpox blanket and then scalped

you wanna go to the country that is the most white % and speaks english

>>20811912
You are right.
Money is fake, but value is fixed. Printing more of it does not solve this issue. It only prevents immediate economic collapse. The economy is essentially living (barely) on borrowed time right now.

>>20806596
it's all so tiresome.
die in a fucking ditch OP

>>20811769
>housing has fixed supply
You mean land not housing.

>>20812062
Again, as I said earlier in this thread: Please direct my attention towards another primitive that is not pegged to the current year American Dollar. I'll wait.

>>20811960
Most Indians are whites larping anyway, I feel safe here. It's actually the spics and niggers I worry more about, believe it or not we may be the reddest state in the union but represent the US as a whole demographically.

>>20805883
yeah, he's soo GREAT.
He makes America so great too

You tards get that if the USA goes we all go right ? The world after will be mad max. I'm not saying this isn't as bad as it looks but GOD dude. It's fucked.

>>20810223
with climate change it's gonna be mad max world
unfortunately