/biz/ - Business & Finance

The end goal has always been never having to cash out.

>>20778095
>Cashing out into failing fiat
>Paying capital gains tax
This is the new currency, anon.

rsv.

>>20778119
Having a lump sum of cash to purchase an estate flat out or having passive income.. Decisions decisions

>>20778095
>cash out
you mean
>crypto in

>>20778095
always have tangible assets. Diversify

>>20778172
Uphold is a godsend. Borrowing dollars on Aave, and sending them to Uphold where they automatically convert to gold for use on a debit card is fantastic. There is no better way to benefit from the collapse of USD.

>>20778095
Linked POV

>>20778095
gold nuggets

gold and silver

>>20778095
I'm not, i'm never selling my FUND

>>20778095
>cash out
u stoopid?

>>20778095

When the dollar dies, we go back to gold. Which is why crypto _will_ fail. Its perceived value as an inflation-hedge will be gone. It loses its main purpose after the great reset. Nobody will be stupid enough to sell real gold for fool's gold. Privacy coins might stagger on in order to fill their little niche, but gold is the true future.

Read Mike Hearn's article, "The Resolution of the Bitcoin Experiment,"

https://blog.plan99.net/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7

and watch Barely Sociable's video "Unmasking Satoshi Nakamoto." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcvX0P1b5g.).) Fact is, we used to think that the banks and Blockstream, under the leadership of Adam Back, captured Bitcoin and ruined it, by hamstringing the block-size. But it would seem that Adam Back was Satoshi all along, and that Bitcoin was intended to be flawed. Crypto was a scam from its inception. It was probably invented as another way, besides the COMEX, to suppress the price of gold and silver, and prop up the system for a few more years. It is a childish distraction.

>>20780626
Your argument is for why bitcoin will fail. There is no reason something like Ethereum or Chainlink would fail, as these provide the basis for the next tech revolution (Smart Contracts).

>>20778172
Xbox 360 is the new currency?

>>20778095

No more cashing out only crypting out.
If you don't have guns, ammo and food you'll end up in a fema camp anyway or taking the vaccine $ won't help you then

>>20778095
Low IQ thread.
A thread died for this

>>20780717

Every other coin is simply a derivative of the original scam. All 5000 of them. It's senseless to gamble on which one might offer some bit of utility, and survive the carnage of the reset. None of them will ever be money. Ethereum is case in point. It's the product of a roll-back after a hack stole millions. Unlike gold, which has no counter-party risk, it is centralized, and demonstrably vulnerable.

>>20780875
>derivative of the original scam
No, not really. There are a few that are useful. Most are scams though. But whatever, I remember all the nocoiner copes in from 2015, just surprised you're still around and haven't roped yet

Fuck USD holding ZANO forever good luck getting any when it starts to moon

>>20780982

I'm up 600% this year on my gold mining stocks. Could not care less that I didn't get into the Great Crypto Bubble of 2017, any more than the Mississippi Bubble or the South Sea Bubble before I was born. Far more people are hurt on the way down than are helped on the way up in bubbles. Foolish to be chasing a dead bubble and yesterday's news when a real bull market is staring you in the face.

>>20781471
Here is the thing, if gold started at a price of $0 in 2008 as Bitcoin did, it would be in a constant bubble craze too on the path towards $1,900 an ounce, insane volatility is not in itself a discreditor of the technology.

>>20778119

First post RIGHT post

>>20778095
If the dollar has collapsed what do you think your going to cash out to?

>>20781773

The Mississippi Bubble and South Sea Bubble started at zero too. We know that gold isn't in a bubble, because, over time, it always buys you exactly the same things. Sometimes it underperforms (as in '12-'18), sometimes it overperforms (as in the 70s, when it went 25x), but, over time, it will always buy you roughly the same amount of clothing, food, oil, etc.

>>20781939
My main point is how can a brand new asset class begin at $0 and ever become a major world asset worth billions without some major ups and downs along the way? It's simple math. Gold is not a bubble because gold is just always been. Also bubbles generally don't last a decade as Bitcoin has, it has long surpassed the fad phase as well. You can believe it's stupid, hell in some ways I think it's stupid to trade money for 0s and 1s, but there is no point in fighting the masses, it has been growing for years particularly in the developing world. Believe me, i'd rather have a million dollars of gold than $50,000 in crypto, but since I'm not rich my best bet in life is to take the risk with crypto. Gold is great at preserving wealth if you already have it.

>>20778095
Wait for the Dow to reach around 10k, and put all your crypto holdings there. It'll shoot back up and you can ride that high

>>20782150

There are times in history when gold not merely preserves wealth but vastly increases it. Mike Maloney shows how, if, since the 1920s, you traded between gold and real estate when either asset-class was comparatively undervalued, you could have turned 1 house into 500:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-knwwD-PZc

In the 70s, as I say, gold went up 25x, and small-cap junior silver-miners went up an astonishing 150x. Same thing happened in '01 to '11; First Majestic Silver went 150x. This is why I say that people who are not getting into gold right now are missing the opportunity of a lifetime to chase yesterday's news. When we go back to a gold standard after the great reset, the increase in purchasing-power which gold will give will be simply enormous, especially because it has been manipulated for so many years; silver even more so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EOPKizJ_Y4

If you want to take risk, believe me, you should simply buy the junior miners, the GDXJ and SILJ. If you want to take more risk still, put 1-3% of your net-worth into some small-caps like MUX, LIO, and EXK.

I'd say that the Bitcoin bubble hasn't lasted. BTC is still well below its all-time high, and the case is even worse with Ether, Monero, BCH, etc. Meanwhile, gold and silver are breaking out.

You say that "you can't fight the masses," but crypto is niche. The PM market is ten or twenty times larger, and crypto has been stagnant for years. I believe that Lobo Tiggre is right that the crypto people from 2017 will begin flocking into miners soon, when they realize the gains to be had. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Co9ZxYa6A

>>20778095
dollar collapse is the best thing to happen to crypto. I mean you can purchase almost anything now a days with crypto and if you cash out your crypto will be worth more and recover faster than the dollar.

>>20780626
Bitcoin is an unconfiscateable asset.
Literally nothing before Bitcoin in Universe was unconfiscateable.
Gold has been confiscated before.
Bitcoin > Gold

>>20778095
good question.
MKR has had the longest track record of keeping a peg, so I think they could peg a coin to a stable commodity.

>>20782544

Bullion vaults are almost never robbed. The BoE has never had a robbery. But the list of crypto-exchange hacks would take an hour to go through:

https://selfkey.org/list-of-cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/

Even Ethereum, as I said before, is the result of a rollback after a hack.

If you memorize your keys, somebody can torture them out of you. If you get dementia or memory-loss, you may lose your keys forever. If you don't memorize them, and instead hide them somewhere, you have to fear, for your entire life, that somebody might come and find them. Gold in a vault, on the other hand, is virtually completely secure.

>>20778095
obviously in euros

>>20778119
FPBP

>>20778212
this anon knows
>>20780717
Exactly, thats why staking is important

>>20782544

>Gold has been confiscated before.

P. S. In answer to this more specifically: offshore bullion was not confiscated in 1933, nor were mining stocks. Homestake Mining, the ancestor of Barrick Gold, which is in the GDX, went up 500% during the Great Depression. Also, gold confiscation in the modern age is unlikely. (https://www.jmbullion.com/investing-guide/taxes-reporting-iras/government-confiscating-metals/))

>>20782750
Euro is the Litecoin of fiat.

>>20782718
Nobody can magically "rob" 20 word seed out of your brain. Well maybe Neural-Link will be able to, but don't install it then. And it's not ready yet.

> Bullion vaults are almost never robbed. The BoE has never had a robbery.
Not robbed. government confiscated gold. Forgot?

> If you memorize your keys, somebody can torture them out of you.

How do they know you own them? What if you give them 1 but own 100? What are duress phrases? Weak argument. Mathematically speaking bitcoin is literally only asset in whole supercluster that can't be confiscated. Until 2008 such asset simply did not exist. Yeah, I will take that over shiny rock.

>>20782779
Euro is ETH. Smart contract.

>>20782811

>>Nobody can magically "rob" 20 word seed out of your brain. Well maybe Neural-Link will be able to, but don't install it then. And it's not ready yet.

No, they can't "magically" rob you. But they can use a drill:

"Police in the Netherlands are investigating the brutal torture of a bitcoin trader, whose home was raided by criminals looking for cryptocurrency.

Three robbers disguised as police entered the victim's home in Drenthe and attacked him with a drill in front of his four-year-old daughter, Dutch publication De Telegraaf reported."

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-robbery-torture-cryptocurrency-netherlands-a8807986.html

>>Not robbed. government confiscated gold. Forgot?

See >>20782762

>>How do they know you own them? What if you give them 1 but own 100? What are duress phrases? Weak argument. Mathematically speaking bitcoin is literally only asset in whole supercluster that can't be confiscated. Until 2008 such asset simply did not exist. Yeah, I will take that over shiny rock.

The main use-case for crypto, and BTC especially, is that it replaces gold as money. It is a direct competitor with gold. Take away that dream, and the price collapses immediately. In a crypto world, everybody would be assumed to have keys. You would have thieves who would watch people's routines, and make it their profession to find out where they hid their keys. If you live in a city I don't understand where you are going to hide your keys if not in a vault, and a vault can easily be broken into. I read only the other day of somebody who lost all his crypto because his vault was compromised by an intruder.

>>Yeah, I will take that over shiny rock

What you mean is "metal." Or, more specifically, God's money; that which has been used in every civilization as money for five thousand years.

>>20782762
if the government has precedents (which they do) then the precedence still exists no matter how you sugarcoat it. Its unlikely but can still happen.

>>20783173

If the government comes to the point of confiscating gold, they will definitely confiscate crypto also. And if you say "I will resist the order and hide mine"; well, there's your answer for gold too.

>>20782917
>What you mean is "metal." Or, more specifically, God's money; that which has been used in every civilization as money for five thousand years.

Yeah, we also thought human and crop disease were caused by god and heavy rain was caused by god. Shit in the streets and didn't have public water.

Gold has no real world value except in some electronics. If it was a cryptocurrency it would be the definition of a no-use token.

We are progressing and well gold is obsolete. It may not happen in your life time but no one is going to give a shit about gold in the future.

OP here to say I'm on board with gold after crypto. Gold is money!

>>20783232

Except there has never been a precedent set for it and therefore less likely to happen.

It would take one hell of a legal action for it to happen and by the time that happen (if it judges allow it) then you can send it multiple wallets or wash it. It is also encrypted and much more secure.

Since gold already has a legal precedence then they can take it without giving anyone a heads up.

>>20778119
CORRECT

>>20783256

>Yeah, we also thought human and crop disease were caused by god and heavy rain was caused by god. Shit in the streets and didn't have public water.

Yes, let us throw out all sound traditions and morality because certain people have happened to be superstitious or ignorant about some things at some point or other.

>>Gold has no real world value except in some electronics. If it was a cryptocurrency it would be the definition of a no-use token.

"Gold is the rarest of mined elements on any meaningful scale. Gold has another equally important feature: immortality. It doesn’t tarnish, rot, evaporate, or decay. It doesn’t have a lifecycle and for reasons unbeknownst to us, resists entropy, one of the most important natural laws which dictates that everything made up of energy will trend towards disorder over time.

Of the 92 natural elements, there is only one which could have evolved as an intermediate commodity (money) representing any cooperative transaction between participants in a free market.

...

Gold’s rarity means its extraction absorbs more input units than any other element or compound. Gold’s immortality means it lasts while everything else including the input units diminish over time. Therefore gold is always time superior to input units in any transaction within the real-economy."

https://medium.com/@roysebag/golds-natural-monetary-properties-fe56f0ef359a

>>We are progressing and well gold is obsolete. It may not happen in your life time but no one is going to give a shit about gold in the future.

Well, I just demonstrated to you that crypto has several fundamental flaws, and your only argument against gold is a couple of throw-away lines of mindless abuse, so you certainly have not shaken my confidence in my beliefs.

>>20783232
>well, there's your answer for gold too
what is a metal detector?

>>20782405
okay boomer

>>20778095
>out
Just holding my rare collectable assets that appreciate in value @Curioinvest

>>20783446
Rarity is a novelty. Do you think when people are trans-versing through space, people will be like oh yeah, this useless metal, we will take it sir for upgrades.

Gold is no means immortal. The notion is laughable and shows you lack vision of the future.

>>20782718
>hide them somewhere, you have to fear, for your entire life, that somebody might come and find them
You hide your gold as well, you retarded dumbfuck. Seriously, just kill yourself

>>20782544
>cuts his internet

>>20783648

>>Rarity is a novelty. Do you think when people are trans-versing through space, people will be like oh yeah, this useless metal, we will take it sir for upgrades.

You obviously missed the part about gold's being not merely rare but immortal. It is the combination of rarity with immortality which makes gold so special.

>you lack vision of the future

Or we could say that your vision of the future is stuck in the greed and mania of 2017. If you really believed in crypto, you wouldn't be so touchy about it.

>>20778266
Based and checked

>>20783686

Gold gives you the opportunity to store your wealth in a vault, where it is virtually certain never to be robbed. Crypto does not. Hacks of prominent exchanges are as common as the air in the crypto space. >>20782718

I hope that whatever problem in your life drives you to be cruel resolves itself.

>>20783446
gold is a great metal, but you underestimate the immortality of electricity and hence that one rare electric currency

>>20778266
KeK. A lot of people don't see there monopoly money as the replacement of the future. You are litraly buying into a brand new economy and are selling for literal useless paper.

>>20778095

Trade for Ameros

>>20784086
We get it, you're a goldbug. The thread is about cashing out crypto, not your boomer stocks. If you were so sure of them you wouldn't be shilling them every second post. Shoo shoo off to pmg.

>>20784122

If by "_one_" rare electric currency, you mean BTC, it's worthless. Ponzi-scheme without a use-case. Block-size is so small that it can't serve more than 0.1% of mankind even with the Lightning Network--which is perpetually "two years away." BTC means using second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do. Probably invented by Adam Back and Blockstream to be a trap from the beginning. >>20780626

>>20784226

If I make a post and people reply to it, and people answer it, then I will answer the replies.

I talk about gold and gold stocks because I care about people and tell the truth on principle. It gives me absolutely no benefit to be in this thread arguing with you or anybody else. It simply hurts me when I see people throwing their money away on crypto exit-scams when they could be getting on the real lifeboat and saving themselves from ruin.

>>20784226

If I make a post and people answer it, then I will answer the replies.

I talk about gold and gold stocks because I care about people and tell the truth on principle. It gives me absolutely no benefit to be in this thread arguing with you or anybody else. It simply hurts me when I see people throwing their money away on crypto exit-scams when they could be getting on the real lifeboat and saving themselves from ruin.

>>20780626
You can tell a boomer by the way they think of crypto as bitcoin and can only talk in terms of bitcoin. They know nothing of smart contracts and the 4IR. They think crypto is about having a boomer digital rock.

I'm ready happy you like gold and are doing well out of it, based on my research I chose to believe there is a future for crypto, dollar crash or not and have it as part of my investment portfolio amongst other things.

>>20784694

"Smart contract" is the sort of technobabble phrase that gets boomers and children excited, but which few people really understand. Perhaps you should consider the idea that, if people have to submit to the will of a little technocracy in order for a system of money to succeed, then that is bad and not good for mankind. Whereas gold is simple and universal.

https://medium.com/@jimmysong/the-truth-about-smart-contracts-ae825271811f

>>20784639
I agree with you that good and silver are money. Never stop sending out that message. I own physical PMs. But, unless we crash back into an agrarian or pre-information age society, then blockchain will be the next technological revolution. Most of the coins out there are shit, but this is the kind of Wild West breeding ground where truly revolutionary tech is made. Maybe all current crypto goes to nothing or maybe a few make it. I think if there is a chance to invest in the 4IR, it’s now. Bitcoin is a dinosaur. If you are going to talk intelligibly about crypto, you’re going to have to move past the blockchain proof of concept.

>>20778095
if the dollar collapses people would turn to cryptocurrencies for standard use. It'd be both bullish af *and* I'd never need to cash out.

See you at the citadel, bros

>>20783446

fucking christfags goddamn

>>20784230
>If by "_one_" rare electric currency, you mean BTC, it's worthless.
Wrong. 1 BTC is currently worth about 5.5 ounces of gold.
>Ponzi-scheme without a use-case
Wrong. It's use case is that financial governance should be decentralized and based on math and not on the whim of 1000 or so limp dick geriatric central bankers around the world.
>Block-size is so small that it can't serve more than 0.1% of mankind even with the Lightning Network.
Who cares. Bitcoin is not a currency. It is MONEY that CAN be transacted like a currency. 60% plus of BTC supply hasn't moved on chain in over a year. If you don't think this number will be over 90% by 2030 get ready to be shocked.
>BTC means using second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do
If you aren't intending on breaking the law why does this matter? You know all digital USD, Euro, Yuan, Yen, etc. etc. transactions are tracked and traced too right?

I do believe in gold and I do own some. Gold is money, I am not debating that, however, in the digital age we find ourselves living in, gold is severely inferior to Bitcoin.

>>20784827
It's not a technocracy when all the power is in the people's hands, which is the era we're moving into
And it beats the hell out of jewish bureaucracy or lugging actual metal coins around

You've never used gold in your life to buy anything. Because it's useless outside of electronics. You can't buy shit on Amazon with it, ATM's would be beyond impractical and transactions would take 1000% longer

The only reason gold ever had value was because it's soft and easy to work with, and it has to be mined and refined which gives it consistent worth. Crypto is exactly that but better in every single regard

you have the new currency. why cash out?

>>20785223

>>Wrong. 1 BTC is currently worth about 5.5 ounces of gold.

I mean that BTC is worthless in terms of value, not price. Stocks in the South Sea Company had a high price too, but were equally worthless in value.

>>Wrong. It's use case is that financial governance should be decentralized and based on math and not on the whim of 1000 or so limp dick geriatric central bankers around the world.

How do you mean "financial governance?" As I say, BTC is hamstringed by its memory-size, and can't serve even 0.1% of the world's population. It will always have to go through second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do. Mike Hearn explained this after he left the project in disgust. >>20780626 Knowing now that Satoshi is probably Adam Back only makes BTC seem even more contemptible.

>>Who cares. Bitcoin is not a currency. It is MONEY that CAN be transacted like a currency. 60% plus of BTC supply hasn't moved on chain in over a year. If you don't think this number will be over 90% by 2030 get ready to be shocked.

No it can't. Not at all. See Mike Hearn's article. Even many people in this thread would disagree with you here. Half the replies are claiming that that I'm wrong about crypto because BTC is useless, but their particular coin is not.

>>If you aren't intending on breaking the law why does this matter? You know all digital USD, Euro, Yuan, Yen, etc. etc. transactions are tracked and traced too right?

The whole use-case of crypto is privacy. If you take away privacy, why are we even using it? What properties does it offer us at that point which gold does not? It then becomes an inferior version of gold. After all, we can already break digital gold up into little pieces, like satoshis. Look into GoldMoney, which used to be called BitGold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjqzyqRz_Mc

>>20785346
>The whole use-case of crypto is privacy
You might be the dumbest gorilla nigger I've ever encountered online
You're not even kidding are you

>>20785227

>>It's not a technocracy when all the power is in the people's hands, which is the era we're moving into

I don't see how power can be in the people's hands if they have to trust the word of a few technocrats as to which coin is "good." Look at how many people get scammed here on a regular basis because of that. Ampleforth is only the most recent example. That sort of exit-scam is a weekly occurrence on /biz/. Bizonacci analyzed the life-cycle of a cryptocurrency two years ago in his "Wage Cuckin' It," and the video is still exactly as true today as it was then. You can't get exit-scammed with gold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMonlRsJ5hY

>>You've never used gold in your life to buy anything. Because it's useless outside of electronics. You can't buy shit on Amazon with it, ATM's would be beyond impractical and transactions would take 1000% longer

People don't use BTC for anything. BTC is a joke. Almost all crypto transactions in Australia, for example, are BCH. If crypto did have a future, it would be something like BCH, or, for privacy, Monero; these things fill a niche and might have some sort of future. But they will never be money, because they are not unique. And we could create a gold-backed crypto which does everything that BCH does if we so chose. The real lifeboat in a currency crisis must be gold. Once we go back to gold, crypto, as I say, is largely redundant.

>>The only reason gold ever had value was because it's soft and easy to work with

This is untrue. See Roy Seabag's article. Gold is special because it is both rare and incorruptible. >>20783446

>>20785418

If we had a crypto backed by gold which did everything except offer privacy, explain to me what need there is for any non-gold-backed crypto.

>>20778095
Ill buy property or gold direct with BTC
Most people in my area would accept one or the other

>>20783256
Gold has value because it has a natural limitation of supply, it is immutable and storable

>>20780717
Muh smart contracts. They're so good that no major corporation is using them. Fact is, the is no fucking point in them over traditional IT architecture.

>>20781471
How exactly are you up 600% on your gold mining stocks?

Great posts otherwise...

>>20785652
this is you my dude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJku_CSyNg

>>20785346
>I mean that BTC is worthless in terms of value, not price.
You're mistakenly looking at it through the lens of the current financial system. Bitcoin is not a part of the current financial system, it is a challenger to it. I also purposely said 5.5 ounces of gold rather than 11k dollars because price in fiat terms is irrelevant.
>How do you mean "financial governance?"
You know, math. 2+2=4. Not allowing a handful of people to inflate away the other 7 billion people's wealth with the stroke of a pen.
>As I say, BTC is hamstringed by its memory-size, and can't serve even 0.1% of the world's population. It will always have to go through second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do
All of this is irrelevant. You are looking at bitcoin as a currency, which it is not. It is MONEY that CAN be used as a currency. Money and currency are not the same thing anon. Also, Bitcoin will be upgraded in the future, but network security is the only thing that matters now.
>No it can't. Not at all.
It can, and it does, and it will continue to do.
>Even many people in this thread would disagree with you here. Half the replies are claiming that that I'm wrong about crypto because BTC is useless, but their particular coin is not.
These are pajeet scammers and poor fags hoping for a moon shot. Both have the IQ of a pet rock and should be ignored.
>The whole use-case of crypto is privacy
No, Bitcoin's use case is sound money. Other cryptos try to find use cases outside of sound money because they cannot compete with bitcoin. Bitcoin is the money of the future.
>What properties does it offer us at that point which gold does not?
Easy and cheap to store/send in large quantities, divisible, fungible, can't be confiscated, and you can actually buy real world products with it right now. You haven't been able to buy real world products at scale with gold since the 1930's.
>It then becomes an inferior version of gold.
SUPERIOR version. fify.

>>20785696

Thank you. Most good silver small-caps are up by that much or more since March. Look into DSV, CNX, VZLA, etc. Having studied previous silver bull markets, I knew to get in early (see this post >>20782405). Small-caps always carry risk, however, and the simplest way to invest is simply to buy SILJ.

>>20778095
by selling precisely:

1.000 000 000 000 000 000 link tokens

>>20785451
You must be old. You talk like even if you had physical possession of your gold, that after any kind of collapse you would just emerge waving it in the air and it would mean anything
>Gold is special because it is both rare and incorruptible
We can precisely create exact rarity now, and gold is not incorruptible. It can be smelted down and mixed with other shit, and faked a variety of ways
Unlike with decentralized global ledgers, aka the blockchain. So not only is crypto rare (at our choosing), easier to use as payment, cuts out banks entirely and places your money directly under your control, but it's also far less corruptible, and easily measurable to much smaller fractions.

Crypto is everything we chose gold for as a civilization, but evolved. And yes, BTC is like AOL now it is a joke, but I've still bought way more shit with it than gold and it set a precedent for the future of currency

>>20786019

>>Bitcoin is not a part of the current financial system, it is a challenger to it.

I agree with you about this, and have said as much myself. "Bitcoin is a direct competitor with gold. Take away that dream, and the price collapses immediately." >>20782917 Peter Schiff talks about Bitcoin so much for good reason. My contention is that it is a bad competitor, and will fail.

>>You know, math. 2+2=4. Not allowing a handful of people to inflate away the other 7 billion people's wealth with the stroke of a pen.

The inflation-hedge argument for Bitcoin is why I said, in this post, >>20780626 that Bitcoin will fail. Once the dollar dies, the world will go back to gold; and countries have been dumping treasuries, and hoarding gold, since 2008. But, once that return to sound money happens, the inflation argument for crypto is gone, and only privacy remains as a use-case.

>>Also, Bitcoin will be upgraded in the future, but network security is the only thing that matters now.

Read Mike Hearn's article; this simply isn't true. If I recall, even the Lightning Network would only open BTC to perhaps 20 million people. And the fact is that, when you add second-layer solutions, you destroy privacy. You become tracked and traced. Hence the last use-case for BTC, privacy, is unattainable, and BTC is inherently worthless. It was crippled at birth by Blockstream.

>>These are pajeet scammers and poor fags hoping for a moon shot. Both have the IQ of a pet rock and should be ignored.

This simply isn't fair. There are innumerable intelligent people who fall for crypto scams every day. Vulnerable people who get taken in and conned. Most people are not technocrats, and never will be. Most people will never have the specialized knowledge to understand why a coin is good or bad. Hence, when you prop up crypto, you _must_ prop up technocracy, and disadvantage everybody else. It is unfair to expect everybody to be experts in technology. By contrast, everybody understands gold.

>>20778119
This. If you believe in the dollar being a ticking time bomb, you wouldn't cash out into fiat. The whole idea of crypto is not needing fiat, and the goal is to have more and more of the world accept crypto as payment.

>>20782544
>Gold has been confiscated before.
s'true

>>20786205
https://youtu.be/GJ4TTNeSUdQ

>>20786140

>>You must be old. You talk like even if you had physical possession of your gold, that after any kind of collapse you would just emerge waving it in the air and it would mean anything

On the basis of every monetary collapse in history, those who held gold after a currency crisis prospered. Ancient Rome. Argentina. Weimar Germany. Zimbabwe. Venezuela. France in the time of John Law. Those who held offshore bullion, or mining stocks, during the Great Depression. The precedent is universal.

I happen to be a young man, but insulting somebody as "old" is not a good way to deal with an argument.

>>We can precisely create exact rarity now, and gold is not incorruptible. It can be smelted down and mixed with other shit, and faked a variety of ways

Good delivery bars go straight from the mint into the vault. If you know that a bar comes from a high-quality mint, you can be 99.99% sure that it is sound. A gold-backed crypto would be like BullionVault or GoldMoney, and make use of such good-delivery bars, which have never even entered into general circulation.

>>20780626
How do you intend to make digital purchases in a digital world with physical money?

>>20786139
1 link = 1 link
simple as
the only valuable commodity is HUMAN LABOR
everything else is a placeholder to represent HUMAN CAPITAL

>>20780875
How can someone be so apathetic?

>>20786024
I agree with you views on crypto but I think BTC will become one of the biggest bubbles ever before crashing 99%

I also don't think silver will play a role finally because it has been demonetized and historically only played a role in the monetary system by being in coins that were commonly used. Payments will be electronically in the future obviously so no use for silver

Gold and silver is God's money. After the biggest war pax americana will come to a end. Israel will claim to be the world power with the new pax judaica. All the gold that the jewish banks accumulated will go to israel. the world on paper money and electronic money will come to a end.

On the long run gold and silver is the go. Expecting a WWIII before 2050.

2020-2030 cryptos will rule.

ITT: stupid larping faggots coping beyond delusional possibility over not having gotten in early on BTC or other crypto as well as absolute morans who don't understand that crypto and metals will fuse together to become two different facets of a new and more authentic version of "fiat" which POTUS and his team of geniuses will create during the next term.

>>20778095
if/when the dollar collapses we won't need to cash out

>>20786253

>>How do you intend to make digital purchases in a digital world with physical money?

See the last line in this post about GoldMoney, and watch the video linked. >>20785346 We already have the technology there for a gold-backed crypto.

>>20786282

It is not unlikely that silver will be monetized again. Jeff Clark wrote an excellent article about this a few weeks ago. I strongly recommend that do you do not leave yourself without exposure to silver. It is likely to be the trade of the century.

https://goldsilver.com/blog/the-potential-looming-catalyst-for-silver-no-one-sees-coming/

I don't think that BTC can become a bubble again, because the bubble has already burst. I only ever see aggressive moonboys talking it up now. I don't know any serious, reasonable people who advocate for it. The original enthusiasts have either moved on (like Mike Hearn), founded other projects (like Roger Ver), or become full converts to gold (like Peter Spina).

>>20786266

I have never been so excited about an investment in my life as I am about my portfolio of mining stocks. I love knowing that I own real gold and silver in the ground and am investing in real people running the companies. I love watching them go up 300% when good drilling results come in, or some new exciting development occurs. I don't understand how anybody can get excited about a token, a name, and a little technobabble.

>>20786250
>On the basis of every monetary collapse in history, those who held gold after a currency crisis prospered.
Those civilizations also weren't experiencing the absurd technological advances we are. Technology is parabolic, We've seen more change and created more data in the last 20 years than all of human history combined

We've progressed so rapidly recently that yes, we're in a super awkward position with many aspects of the pre-internet legacy world.
Hell, we're in awkward position even with legacy machines and systems capable of internet.

And one of the absolute most awkward is currency and financial systems. It's an absolute fucking shit show to be quite honest.
We're to the point that 80% of life happens in the cyberworld, the cloud now.
Conversations, sharing memories, entertainment.... and yes PAYING for stuff.
Gold makes no fucking sense in this digital electronic/wireless punk world we now live in

Crypto is rare, and we can choose how rare, and decentralized global ledgers on the blockchain are even less corruptible than gold.
Crypto is the evolution of gold, it's quite forward and logical which is why it's so baffling to me that you can't see it in the slightest

>>20786414
The bubble blew up in 2010, 2013, 2017, and it will rise again

>>20786359
I hope you're right
it's clear that the current fiat system broke down in 2008
obama bin laden did more damage to America than osama bin laden

>>20786459
Ok boomer

You are so fucking braindead about btc I almost feel bad for you.

>>20786250
I mean come on we went from No Electricity to Everyone even illegal immigrants hopping borders having wirelessly connected computers capable nearly any kind of interaction except physical (like your coin) in like ~150 years

Do you really think if the Romans started off with metal coins and advanced to our level of electronics in the same time that they would have been like "Huh, guess we have carry pieces of metal around again, yeah that makes sense in our now digital world"?

>>20778119
that train of thought have been lost years ago

>>20786414
So, you're saying that a centralized company, who's team all customers depend on in order to function can process digital versions of gold, which is matched to legitimate and scarce stores of value that you can choose to be stored wherever you want in the world?

Why in the fucking hell would anyone use this service when they can use a blockchain version of this?
GoldMoney was made in response to blockchain, anon...

Keep in mind, I own no BTC, so I'm not arguing for BTC. With that in mind, what about tech like stable coins, balancer pools, deflationary measures, decentralized exchanges, and so, so much more?
GoldMoney just got btfo all with the mention of blockchain tech and its decentralized nature. No one can control what I can do with my blockchain currencies, but GoldMoney can decide what I do with my goldmoney. You saw that it's a MasterCard card, right?...

>>20786459
Here's where your biggest problem is - I own both.
You're just a mouth-breather who doesn't understand what the future has in store for us.

>>20786521
Are you sure that's his real name?
When, if ever, did you see "Obama" and "Osama" on the television screen LIVE and simultaneously?
Who is Barry Soetoro?
Why is he fluent in both Russian AND Arabic?
What languages did his parents know?
What languages did his REAL parents know?
Who is Zbigniew Brzezinski?
How does he know Barry?
Who is Mika Brzezinski?
Who is her father?

>>20786486

If your argument is that technological advancement = good, then why advocate for BTC? Everybody in the crypto space agrees that it is the worst possible coin of the lot. At the $20,000 peak, you had $100-fees and three-day transaction times. Even the Lightning Network will not solve its problems; that would improve things for 0.1% of the world at best, or about 20 million people, before another upgrade would be needed. And even then, once you introduce second-layer solutions, you make people trackable and traceable, hence BTC is no longer private, hence it has no use-case over gold, hence what on earth is the point of it?

>>20786562

Produce your argument then.

>>20786499

When I look at a chart of BTC, it seems pretty obvious to me that the "blow-off top" was 2017. The movement before then does not look anything like it. Since then, the price has remained stagnant. I think, also, that so many people are now aware of BTC's flaws that you could never achieve the same level of euphoria or notion of a "new paradigm" to blow an equivalent bubble. Once people see the enormous gains which you can get in gold and silver stocks, they will flock out of crypto and into them, as Lobo Tiggre says. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Co9ZxYa6A To give one example, a few months ago, FVL, after Eric Sprott's investment, went 50x.

>>20786653
Btc is a peice of shit but I can’t deny the ability for it to transfer value faster the gold. You think small on the individual level. Why would a nation state risking shipping gold across oceans to have some stupid nigger steal it in transit when you can just send btc and have the transaction be complete in under 30m. Do you not see the value in that? Do you not see the value in you’re money being cryptographically protected and not being filled with led like it’s happend to gold in the past?

You are fucking retard or haven’t taken the dive into crypto and are wanting to be spoon fed on why it’s a good thing you low iq boomer. Stop watching keiser report and come up with your own ideas pls

>>20786414
I don't see any reason to remonetize silver while there are political reasons to peg currencies to gold

BTC hasn't burst yet because regulators and banks are being to accommodating to the whole thing. Combine that with the whole blockstream saga/ blocksize limit / tracability of BTC and you should know something's fishy

You're right in BTC being a distraction from real money which is gold. I think it's being done intentionally by TPTB

>>20786653
I'm advocating for cryptocurrency, for the natural logical evolution of currency to stop being impeded by delusional boomer-style mindsets that only prop up world banks aka globalism and jews

Every reason anyone can give for using gold is done better by cryptocurrency
Rarity? Controllable and perfect
Incorruptible? Decentralized global blockchain ledgers are even more secure
Easy to use? No brainer
Fits into how the electronic/cloud/smart world works now? Yuppp
No banks? Check
Actually own your own money and no one can take it? Check
Faster transactions? Check
Easier to store? Check
Easier to move? Check
Easier to divide into smaller pieces? Check

Like I said, except for jews and boomers propping up the globohomo bs agenda, and electronics, gold is worthless. We're so far beyond it. It's literally institutions and cultures keeping gold and all this bs alive

>>20786620
>When, if ever, did you see "Obama" and "Osama" on the television screen LIVE and simultaneously?
https://youtu.be/mHfbASLQLt4 - July 7 2016
https://youtu.be/iljp9GuORoE - July 8 2016

>>20782405
Why do you like LIO? I don't think I've seen you rec that one before.

>>20786153
>>Bitcoin is not a part of the current financial system, it is a challenger to it.

2 words fellas. KOKICHI MIKIMOTO

>>20786620

>>Here's where your biggest problem is - I own both.

I don't. Why? Because if I invest in a good mining company, I know that I might get a 1000% return. But it's doubtful that BTC will even double before it collapses. Other cryptos are even more of a gamble. Pointless to gamble with my money on crypto when I can make enormous returns on a sure thing.

>>You're just a mouth-breather who doesn't understand what the future has in store for us.

Why do supporters of crypto tend to be so vindictive? You see this under Peter Schiff's Twitter feed every day. If you feel confident in your beliefs, you don't need to talk to people like this.

>>what about tech like stable coins

You mean like tether? Which many people speculate is not backed by the dollars which it says it is backed by, and used for pumping and dumping by whales?

>>No one can control what I can do with my blockchain currencies, but GoldMoney can decide what I do with my goldmoney.

If GoldMoney abuses you, then go to a rival company like BullionVault or Sprott's service and use that instead. When we go back to gold there will be dozens of competitors to GoldMoney. And of course you can always take possession of your gold in your own hand, and then you are even more untraceable than you are on BTC. BTC has a public ledger, after all.

Privacy is a use-case which I admit that crypto uniquely has. But that is not enough to make it money. Privacy is niche, and there are too many competitors all vying to be the one true privacy-coin, whereas gold is completely unique. I expect that coins like Monero will always have some value; I simply think that gold and gold miners are vastly going to outperform them, because gold alone has intrinsic value and is money.

Boomers, no one wants BTC to be anything or used for anything.
BTC = AOL now. It's embarrassing and needs to just die off

Doesn't change that cryptocurrency is the future and superior to gold in every way like I typed out above

>>20786848
modern day innovators are shrimp farming

>>20786885
Bitcoin is the "manmade pearl" which is a better version of Gold.

>>20786788
You don’t get it they have to be accommodating. They fucked the dollar so much they want to people to switch to crypto. If it was a problem banks would not let people into btc

>>20786859
If 2017 happens again (which, it's looking like it will), you'll feel like an idiot.
I'm not sure you know what vindictive means. Besides, provocation is quite potent, anon. You need to be provoked so that you dwell on this topic and hopefully understand how wrong you are.
Tether is a single stablecoin. Otherwise, we don't disagree.
>GoldMoney again
No one in their right mind would ever use a centralized company for digital transactions when they can use blockchain.
I'm not sure why you're trying to compare blockchain to services like GoldMoney, anyway. The basic nature of blockchain vs these types of services say enough about their comparison and your confusion about them.

I take it you simply don't know what you're talking about. We haven't even scratched the surface of what smart contracts are capable of.
Blockchain will innovate entire industries like Education, Insurance in general, Banking, Government and very obviously Commerce.
Metals, although they're the only true money, cannot boast quite as many use cases, although there are some that are very, very intriguing.

So, to be blunt, I treat you like a smooth-brained asshole because you're clearly being absurdly lazy.

>>20786859
>gold untraceable

Ask me how I know you’re poor?

>>20786842

I used to recommend it to people when it was 1.44 CAD; ever since it began to climb (now 2.28 CAD) I recommended it less and less; but I'd still do so, because it is a good company, which could produce 100,000 ounces a year from a starter mine. And most people don't seem to be able to invest on things which are not on the NYSE.

>>You are fucking retard or haven’t taken the dive into crypto

If you can read my posts on this thread and then seriously claim this, either about my knowledge or my intelligence, then you are completely dishonest.

No, BTC doesn't transfer faster than gold. A gold-backed crypto with an appropriate memory-size (such as BCH has proved is possible) would work instantaneously. Whereas BTC is eternally crippled by Blockstream. And, as I explained in this post, >>20786250 a gold-backed crypto would use good-delivery bars which would never leave their vault. Again, watch Peter Schiff talk about GoldMoney, and listen to him carefully. >>20785346

>>20786957
Not at all. They simply cannot stop it, so they know that if they push too hard against adoption, Streisand will catch up to them inevitably.

>>20787012
Finance 1.0 are the ones transacting people’s fiat into btc. If they wanted to stop it they would ban that type of transaction across the board. You might be able to go back to the fox days of money grahm. Maybe

>>20787053
>If they wanted to stop it they would ban that type of transaction across the board.
No they wouldn't...
We would just use localbitcoins or giftcards like the real cypherpunks do, except more widely.
This way, offering us a mixer like CB gives [them] a chance to siphon as much taxes from normies as possible.

>>20786989

>If 2017 happens again (which, it's looking like it will), you'll feel like an idiot.

This is pretty much the main reason why people invest in BTC now. People who missed their opportunity to buy into the bubble last time, and don't want to "feel like an idiot" in case the line goes up again. They want to be the triumphalists this time, they want to get rich quick, they want to feel like geniuses in a bull market. It's a mixture of a greed, envy, and FOMO.

>>smart contracts

>>20785652
>>20784827

>>20786946

If Adam Back is Satoshi, and I believe that Barely Sociable has proven that he is, >>20780626 then BTC is no man-made pearl. More like a man-made plague.

>>20787088
Kek you do know feds operate on those sites right?

>>20787101
dude you're not fucking smart, there are bigger entites that are investing in BC than your whole networth.

You're going to be the fucking idiot boomer, who didn't invest into google/apple.

>>20778394
What’s the best way to spend bitcoins/crypto to avoid paying taxes while maintaining liquidity

>>20787133

You are exactly the person whom I am describing in my post.

>>20787101
Current lack of adoption is no argument against a technology in its infancy and you not taking this conversation seriously enough to avoid such sophomoric attempts at argumentation says clearly enough that you're not ready for a big boy conversation about this.

>This is pretty much the main reason why people invest in BTC now.
The only people buying BTC right now are whales. People that are smart enough (meaning, not people like you) to maneuver altseason are currently pumping alts in order to eventually move their gains in to BTC.

>>20787126
Contrary to the bullshit you commonly see here, the vast majority of crypto takedowns are genuinely money launderers who are trying to wash money acquired through pretty awful means.
Most of us kids who just want to invest enough scraps in order to get our feet in the door of an emerging industry will be left alone for innovation's sake and /ourguys/ have been maintaining this dynamic for some time now.
I don't know about you, anon, but I intend to do good things with my fortune. I don't want a decent security blanket for my own sake. I have much more than myself or my family in mind and I hope the lot of you feel the same.
Besides, you won't have to worry much about the IRS once the FED and all of the other boogeyman agencies are audited.

I swear... it's like none of you pay any attention to any of this shit and just watch one single person in one single youtube video and think you have this all figured out.
I could offer up a gigantic list of reasons why I think all of the things that I think and I'm not even slightly confident a tiny fraction of you could say the same.

>>20780787
OK Boomer.

>>20786178
Could be sooner than expected.
https://freshcrypto.net/2020/07/26/visa-moving-to-integrate-with-digital-currency-platforms/

>>20787393
We will get central bank coins via the fed, they're doing something.

>>20787296

>big boy conversation

Hahaha. I said once that all crypto-supporters seem like little Antony Pomplianos. Now you even use the same terminology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwmxx5o8cn4

I don't think you understand my point. Adoption is not the problem for BTC. The thing is fundamentally broken. It cannot scale. It is impossible for it to scale. The memory-size is too small for it to service even a fraction of a fraction of the world. Go read Mike Hearn's post; you couldn't get more of an expert than Mike Hearn, and he will tell you exactly what I am saying to you now. And now that we know that Adam Back, the head of Blockstream, is probably Satoshi, the thing seems even more sinister, as if BTC was invented, from the outset, to deceive people away from sound money into a mere ponzi-scheme.

>>20787296
I trust in you anon. What are you currently invested in? I’m sitting in cash right now because I don’t know where to put my money. Everything seems over inflated. Cash seems like a time bomb.

>>20782405
Good fucking post.

I have vanguard and robinhood. What's the best silver junior miner I can buy?

I already have silj, slv and mux.

>>20787513

Buy the GDXJ. I promise you it's the best investment which you can make. If you buy a crypto-coin, you are probably going to lose all your money.

>>20787467
>he doesn't know fiat is a ponzi
It's called Stakenet, brainlet.
It's scaling before our very eyes.

>>20787513
Apparently I don't have to answer the question now.
Anyway, I think Stakenet will go all ETH on us.
I think Harmony could flip ETH and is showing more signs of creeping in to the spotlight.
I think the super weird anons who understand Saturnian magick know what they're doing when they meme LINK.
I also think AMPL isn't stopping as soon as most think.
As for metals: there are four that stand above the rest for good reason.
Metals are the only true money and we should all bear in mind the historic ratio of silver to gold maintained by many cultures before us.
You should understand Silver's extraction rates and how they match to gold.
Once Au plunders the FED (these aren't my suggestions, but ones I felt comfortable with) we could see Au go to 100k and Ag go to 1k (which, I think it could be as much as 8k).
I also think the housing bubble will pop in the next few years and people like you and I will suddenly find ourselves with a lot of very interesting opportunities.

As stated above, I think the US government will abolish the foreign-owned FED, I think the treasury will re-institute a legitimately-backed currency: one that's tethered to a balanced pool of two to four metals as well as a digital "stablecoin", which will be used to make digital transactions across the world but will also be somehow decentralized just like Au and Ag always were.

I think another huge round of tax cuts all across the board is on the horizon and that crypto will, before too long, be treated as a foreign currency, allowing the great reset to commence. I think this is about the time Jubilee will occur.

But, hey, maybe I'm just some starry-eyed kid.

>>20778095
In person, can't tax that.

AIDS

>>20786153
>"Bitcoin is a direct competitor with gold.
No, bitcoin's properties are comparable to gold. It is a competitor with the financial system as a whole. DYOR Surpassing the gold market cap will be a bump in the road compared to what Bitcoin will become in the next 30 years.
>Peter Schiff talks about Bitcoin so much for good reason.
Peter Schiff has a good macro economic understanding but is way too myopic on gold. Know why? He sells the stuff to you for a profit and he doesn't like Bitcoin because he's smart and knows it's cutting into his revenue
>Bitcoin will fail
Right. Just like stone tools, controlling fire, the wheel, agriculture, animal husbandry, irrigation, bronze, iron, ship building, the printing press, machinery, the automobile, flight, computers, and the internet all failed? I don't think you understand what a massively monumental achievement Bitcoin is in human history.

Eh fuck it I'm done. I'm either feeding the troll or your just too plugged in to see the big picture. Maybe I should say you have to go back, maybe I should say ok boomer go shine your rocks like a lot of anons here, but honestly anon, just do more research.

>>20786250
>On the basis of every monetary collapse in history, those who held gold after a currency crisis prospered. Ancient Rome. Argentina. Weimar Germany. Zimbabwe. Venezuela. France in the time of John Law. Those who held offshore bullion, or mining stocks, during the Great Depression. The precedent is universal.
> You are failing to account for variable change. There were no computers or internet back then. Human existence has evolved and you're comparing apples to oranges. Bitcoin and a handful of other cryptos will win the war for financial governance.

>>20778095
LINK staking rewards

>>20780875
I've stolen gold before retard, back when I had no skills and well before I could even imagine 'Hacking something'.
Picked a lock and walked away with gold, melted it down then sold it.
Gold is easy as fuck to steal you midwit.
Then if it is paper backed by gold I could just steal the paper.
durrrrrrr dit doo durrrrrrrr

>>20780626

should i be putting the majority of my liquid finances into something other than fiat?
i'm scared bros