/biz/ - Business & Finance

>he doesn't know it will be both
also checked

>>20755522
Yeah I can't wait to see the entire worlds e-commerce on 1MB blocks. Just have to wait your turn in line for 8 years for your Amazon payment to clear.

t

>>20755558
Coda protocol

>>20755522
This is going to be seen as such an artifact of these times 20 years from now.

>>20755522
Bitcoin is not capable of replacing anything with its 1mb blocks. Ethereum either with its 2.0 continually postponed for eternity. Both are flawed. Get your bag of AVAX, because it is the only thing that will be capable building the next USD on.

>>20755647
arbitrum boyo

>>20755647
Coda protocol

If my ID is green, has two capital i's in it and ends in P then Bitcoin will undeniably be $20,000 (twenty thousand U.S. dollars) by January 31 2021.

>>20755522
crypto will just become the new fiat which will be backed by gold

>>20755683
Still used Ethereum as the L1.

>>20755712
>>20755522
checked and all in

>>20755874
as a ledger, the transaction speed is miles faster with their protocol

>>20755522
>Pay for pizza delivery in bitcoin
>Transaction takes 2 hours to go through
>Mining fee makes the pizza cost enough that you essentially lose 3 slices worth
>Pizza arrives after the party already finished
>Tip delivery guy in bitcoin
>He stands on your front lawn for 3 hours waiting for his tip

>>20755522
No.
Covid proved that crypto is nearly parallel to the stock market. If the market crashes, memecoins crash. All the while gold is fucking soaring

>>20755522
and by crypto we all mean Bitcoin.

>>20755904
Miles faster than ETH yes, but thats a low bar to set. Arbitrum will be better off using Avalanche.

>>20755712
Uhhhh guys?

>>20755712
>tfw you're colorblind but everything else fits

>>20755522
Anarchy now.

>>20756068
We get time travellers here all the time. Just ignore him and maybe he’ll go back

>>20755712
that's kind of trashy unless deflation really kicks in, or if that's the new bottom after a massive 2017-like pump

>>20755558
Layer 2 will blow your mind. Learn how the internet works before spouting off like a retard

>>20755712
WAT

>>20755558
>he doesn't know about Stakenet

>>20755712
>praise be to kek; the inevitable god of chaotic, atomic, and astrologic entropy.

>>20755712
Alright, faggot, how rich will I be with one XSN Masternode?

>>20755647
wow that sounds really cool, I think I'll buy Bitcoin though

>>20755647
>building the next USD
Did you know Harmony is about to launch an Indonesian stablecoin on their platform.
Oh, and did you know Binance is about to launch a stablecoin on Harmony's platform too?

>>20755712
>scripting
But I believe you.

>>20755712
Mmmm indeed

>>20755558
>>20755647

Said this in another thread, but it bears repeating here:

Read Mike Hearn's article, "The Resolution of the Bitcoin Experiment,"

https://blog.plan99.net/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7

and watch Barely Sociable's video "Unmasking Satoshi Nakamoto." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcvX0P1b5g.).) Fact is, we used to think that the banks and Blockstream, under the leadership of Adam Back, captured Bitcoin and ruined it, by hamstringing the block-size. But it would seem that Adam Back was Satoshi all along, and that Bitcoin was intended to be flawed. Crypto was a scam from its inception. It was probably invented as another way, besides the COMEX, to suppress the price of gold and silver, and prop up the system for a few more years.

When the people in power want to control you, they over-complicate things. Think of gender politics, climate change, the coronavirus panic, and so forth. They make up something confusing which is intended to harm you, but say that you yourself can’t really understand it, and so simply have to accept it and put all your faith in the experts. They make you go against your natural instincts. Crypto is pretty obviously a part of that stratagem. Crypto would require a technocracy to succeed. No normal person really knows what any of these coins does or what their value is. But so long as the technology exists, there always is that lingering doubt in the back of the average person's mind that crypto might be the “real gold,” and so gold stays suppressed for a little longer. Still, I don’t think that gold can be suppressed now that it is breaking out, which is why I’m finally getting out of crypto.

>>20756649
How is FUDing crypto still worth it at this point?

>>20756917

Nobody with an ounce of common sense could believe in Bitcoin after reading Mike Hearn's article, or not think it at least likely that Adam Back is Satoshi after watching Barely Sociable's video.

>>20757034
"Satoshi" is /ourguys/.
They gave us Blockchain tech to help us free ourselves from the grip of the banks and foreign actors that are enslaving us.

You are a guest here.
Lurk moar.

>>20755712

>>20757034
It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about if you condense all of the crypto space into the Bitcoin case, you're just a confused boomer who needs youtube retards to have a slight grasp of anything and blindly believes incredibly outdated Medium articles
The crypto space has moved a lot since 2016, and plenty of the issues pointed in that article simply never existed in other projects like Monero and haven't existed in Bitcoin for years

>>20757128
>yfw Satoshi isn't a person but is actually God himself, Bitcoin was actually a balancing hotfix for the simulation because the Jews were too OP

>>20757298

>>confused boomer

Have to laugh at this. The "30-year-old boomer" meme was originally to do with older people getting into crypto. In my experience, those who believe in crypto most vehemently tend to be either naive children, or middle-aged midwits who think that they are much cleverer than they really are. The Dan Held types on Twitter who post the sane asinine rubbish under Peter Schiff's name, day after day after day.

If the original crypto, Bitcoin, was a scam, then every other crypto is simply an offshoot of a scam. I don't only mean projects like BCH, where Adam Back could obviously crash the whole thing with his 1 million coins if he really is Satoshi. I mean that the whole idea of crypto becomes discredited if it was originally invented to enslave, rather than uplift mankind. It doesn't matter what variation your particular coin is on the original concept, if that concept is itself rotten.

>>20757034
>nobody with an ounce of common sense would believe in the motor vehicle after hearing Vanderbilts commendation of their danger. Especially when you find out Henry Ford was an avid antisemite. The motor vehicle will never be adopted.


Keep your head in the sand, Bitcoin already has won. The writing is all over the wall, laws have been passed so banks can custody Bitcoin a month ago.

>>20757426
You might as well call anything related to finance a rotten concept, since the only thing truly tying most of the crypto space (though plenty of projects did away with this) is the idea of a distributed ledger, which is an offshot of a ledger, which is absolutely necessary to keep records of debits and credits
Might as well discredit order books too since those need ledgers too, and thus valuations of precious metals

>>20757526

Crypto is self-evidently broken for several reasons, no matter which coin you use.

1) You can store gold in a vault, where it is safely kept. But crypto requires you to memorize keys to hold it. Now, you can't torture someone to get their gold which they keep in a Swiss vault; but, in a crypto world, everybody would be getting tortured, on a regular basis, for their keys. Crypto traders have already been tortured for them in the most horrific ways. Torturing people for crypto-keys is far too easy. In a crypto world, if people knew you had a lot of crypto, you would be afraid even to leave your own home.

2) You can always get your gold out of a vault, no matter what your mental state may be. But, if you get memory problems, dementia, etc., you might forget your keys, and so lose all your money. If you hide your keys, on the other hand, then they can very easily get stolen or destroyed. Gold, by contrast, is almost never stolen out of vaults. I don't know that the BoE has ever had a robbery.

3) If you make a single mistake in sending crypto, you lose everything. Could not happen on something like e. g. Peter Schiff's Goldmoney; they could simply reverse the transaction.

4) Crypto has no intrinsic value. Hence you have now, and always will have, hundreds of competing coins. This means that crypto can never be money, because people can never settle on a single one. People only flock into crypto in the hope of selling their coins at a higher price to a greater fool. Hence crypto is incapable of storing value in the long-term.

5) Every single coin, even the "best" ones, has unique problems. Monero is inflationary. Ether is centralized. Adam Back might be Satoshi, and able to crash BCH with his 1 million Bitcoins. Bitcoin is a worthless ponzi without a use-case, and cannot process transactions with the remotest degree of speed or efficiency; etc., etc.

its true op. crypto is more secure and faster to transfer than pms. of course bitcoin will go the way of the horse buggy and white folks in new york will say oh how quaint btc, but crypto will become the main value mechanism even for governments

>>20757819
This is incredibly retarded lmao
>1
US banks can custody crypto nowadays, you can get any trustable party to custody a sealed letter with your keys, it's just fucking numbers man, lmao
>2
So can you with crypto, plenty of ways to transfer the custody of keys to another party, though that defeats the "be your own bank" dogma
If you store gold in your house it can get stolen too
>3
Yeah, but guess what happens if you wire money to a wrong bank account? Usually on most banking systems in the world you can't reverse the transaction, or even know who the recipient was, this is a property that gold lacks, good luck getting Bullion Vault to pay someone with your bars
If you hand physical gold to someone who isn't your intended recipient you're fucked too, no way to reverse the transaction unless you track down the person (and then that person can deny involvement), with Bitcoin and most crypto's at least you can prove you gave them the money
>4
This is the only worthwhile point in your post, plenty of discussions around it, not gonna address it since it holds validity, it also applies to gold/silver but to a much lesser degree
>5
Monero will take thousands of years for the tail emission to be anywhere near significant, might as well discard the value of gold because muh asteroid mining, even then asteroid mining is at least slightly realistic, unlike Monero's tail emission having any significant impact on total supply

>>20755522
pm will be what crypto is valued in instead of USD

>>20758040

1) Crypto-banks defeat the whole purpose of crypto, which is claimed to be privacy and self-ownership.

2) Your argument that you can "transfer keys to another party" also, by your own admission, defeats the privacy and self-ownership argument. As soon as somebody else knows your keys, your money is no longer secure. And besides, you might get memory-loss before you have the foresight to do that.

3) Banks do regularly reverse transactions, and it is better to have a good chance of getting a transaction reversed than a 0% chance. On GoldMoney you pay with fractional gold; gold doesn't actually change hands. So a gold bank could reverse a transaction just as easily as a fiat bank.

4) Thank you for conceding the point. I don't see how it applies to gold and silver, however, since those metals have been money since time immemorial. They are called God's money for good reason.

5) I don't know whether your technical argument about Monero is right or wrong, however perhaps that's exactly the point. Nobody except a handful of experts can even understand these crypto-coins, or whether they are good or bad. That's one reason why crypto is evil. It makes us rely on a small technocracy. Gold, on the other hand, is simple and universal.

>>20755522

>>20758310
Holy shit dude, just because custodying your crypto “defeats the purpose” doesn’t mean people won’t do it or that it ruins crypto. People can be their own banks if they CHOOSE, thats the significant advancement. Billions of dollars in Bitcoin are custodied by Coinbase (acquired Xapo)

When your crypto is custodied you will have the ability to reverse transactions when sending within the banking network, no difference from banking today.

Memory loss? LOL? Your points are so weak, it is embarrasing.

90% of americans don’t understand how central banking works and everything is OK. Nobody needs to be an expert to use money, you won’t need to be an expert to use crypto.


You are so off-base it is embarrassing. Your points don’t stand up to a raindrop of scrutiny or logic. All you’ve done is delude yourself out of the fastest growing asset class in the past 10 years.

>>20755522
Nigga don't be stupid. Buy DMG under $1.10 and hold until $100.

>>20758411

>People can be their own banks if they CHOOSE, thats the significant advancement.

Yes, and then you run back into my original argument, which is that torture would become commonplace in a crypto world. Anybody who _did_ choose to be their own bank would be setting themselves up to get kidnapped on the street, and tortured until they surrendered their life's savings.

>>Memory loss? LOL? Your points are so weak, it is embarrasing.

That's not a weak point. That's an excellent point. If you won't concede that, then you're dishonest.

The fact that you can't see the merit in the rest of my points, along with your incivility to a person who has been nothing but civil with you, only confirms me in what I believe even more strongly.

>>20755558
Imagine walking up to someone with a pocket full of rocks

>>20758481
Its called paper and a pen buddy, its an old invention but still works for remembering information. Couple it with a water proof bag and fire proof safe and you are golden.

There exists MANY bearer instruments in this world, kidnapping is not commonplace at all. Billionaires and millionaires are rarely kidnapped. Also look into multisig wallets. You have one key, a bank has the other, boom your funds can’t be stolen from kidnappers OR by the bank.


Your “points” are easily defeated. The fact you even content that “memory loss” is a reason crypto won’t succeed is absolutely laughable. I’m not trying to be rude, it really is.

>>20755712
Can you faggots stop deleting your previous post?
WHERE DID ALL THESE NEWFAGS COME FROM??

>>20755522
checked

>>20758567
what previous post I'm travelling time morty burrp look I'm time travelling rick wubadubadubdub buurrpp

>>20754395

>>20758563

>Couple it with a water proof bag and fire proof safe and you are golden.

A home-safe can be broken into; a professional bullion vault, on the other hand, is virtually never broken into. I read a story only the other day of somebody who lost all his crypto because of a robbery. It was known by his friends that he used to mine the coin as a hobby; he came home one day and found his safe broken open, his password taken, and years of labour gone.

>>There exists MANY bearer instruments in this world, kidnapping is not commonplace at all. Billionaires and millionaires are rarely kidnapped.

Crypto is niche, and we already have dozens of stories of horrific torture for crypto-keys. This is already happening right now.

A multisig wallet means that you no longer fully own your coins. It adds counter-party risk. What if the bank makes a blunder, and you lose them all?

>>The fact you even content that “memory loss” is a reason crypto won’t succeed is absolutely laughable.

The fact that you won't take it seriously that a person could forget their keys, and so lose millions of dollars in an instant, that is what I find perplexing. Somebody develops dementia in the world every three seconds, and you don't think that that poses any kind of problem.

>>20758711
Nobody needs to remember their key. You can write it down, you can get a hardware wallet. It is so unrealistic to imagine everybody in crypto will attempt to memorize their seeds, nobody does this.


>home safe can be broken into.
Yes, it can, thats why you create a multisig wallet and keep a copy of your key, hell maybe a few in different locations, then you give the other key pair to the bank which stores it in the bullion vault and is insured if they lose it. This is literally how all Bitcoin is stored today by big players. Multisig wallets and bank vaults. The recent crypto banking law was passed to make this service insurable, among other reasons.

There are no more horrific crypto kidnapping stories than other kidnapping stories.


You are constructing straw-man scenarios, that in reality, will never happen or will happen so infrequently it can be written off to 0. Check out Coinbase custody, check out how the Winklevoss twins store their bitcoin, check out how Grayscale does it. Nobody is just “memorizing the keys” It is beyond absurd to even make that argument. You really have deluded yourself.

>>20758827

>>Nobody needs to remember their key. You can write it down, you can get a hardware wallet. It is so unrealistic to imagine everybody in crypto will attempt to memorize their seeds, nobody does this.

If you don't memorize your keys, then you run into the other problem in the dichotomy, as I have said, which is theft. Gold in a vault is extremely safe; the BoE, as I say, has never had a robbery. But a crypto-investor must be terrified, at all times, that somebody might discover the location of his password. In a crypto-world, I imagine that many thieves would make it their profession to go hunting for people's passwords. They would watch people carefully, and see where they go. The loss or destruction of a password must also be a source of concern to a crypto-holder.

Multisig wallets, as I have said, introduce significant counterparty risk, and so defeat the whole purpose of crypto. Look at this for example: "Ethereum's Parity Users Lose Millions in a Multi-Sig Hack."

https://news.bitcoin.com/ethereums-parity-client-users-lose-millions-multi-sig-hack/#:~:text=A%20Vulnerability%20Found%20in%20the,%2430%20million%20worth%20of%20ETH.

>>Check out Coinbase custody, check out how the Winklevoss twins store their bitcoin, check out how Grayscale does it.

Large institutions have constantly been hacked and lost their savings, from Mt Gox onward. You have entire lists of such cases. Even Ethereum is the result of a roll-back after a hack stole enormous amounts of the currency; hence why it competes with Ethereum Classic. So much for decentralization. All this technological risk and nonsense when you can simply stick with what is simple and understandable to all, gold.

>>20759024
Your gold in a vault has more of a counterparty risk. Mt. Gox had absolutely abysmal key management. The DAO hack was not a result of mismanged keys. You are being totally dishonest in your arguments. I don’t care to convince you, you can watch from the sidelines and continue making false narratives to support you poor decision

>>20759228

Somebody who puts their gold in a Swiss vault is not going to lose it. You have hundreds of years of proven success to back that fact. On the other hand, the list of crypto-exchange hacks is so long that I'd need about half an hour to study the thing.

https://selfkey.org/list-of-cryptocurrency-exchange-hacks/

Your volatile temper is extremely typical of everybody I know who believes in crypto, and shows that you do not have the courage of your convictions. Only a person with inward conviction is able to debate rationally. I don't feel the need to hurl abuse at you, first because I don't do it to people on principle, but secondly because I am so certain that gold is going to win in the end that, for the most part, I simply feel sorry for you.

I’m sorry, was it silver or btc that has been artificially suppressed for years while (((big banks))) accumulate it a shit ton?
Oh yea

>>20759372
I’m not hurling abuse at you. Your arguments are straw-men or equally apply to gold. Time will tell, I have enough conviction in my beliefs that I’ve made, lost and made back nearly a million dollars.

>>20756420
I'm a computer scientist. I will make it my life's work to track you down and identify you.