/biz/ - Business & Finance

Nationalize all colleges and then rank them. Which school you are admitted to is determined by an IQ test and only an IQ test. All universities are free, and mandatory. Courses are not structured by 'rigorousness,' but simply by learning. There is none of the busywork that dominates current undergraduate coursework.

Make sure there's a clear separation between schools that are meant for becoming smarter and schools that are meant to learn a technical skill. Prospective students may choose either.

Also, I think grammar and middle and high school should be completely restructured. It should be focused on learning necessary life skills and basic academics, so as to prepare the young folk for their academic and work lives of the future, without being the stressful, time-consuming thing it is today. Much shorter overall years, weeks, and days with many breaks, and ending early, at 16. All healthy men should, at that point, be entered into a mandatory, two year military sentence before returning for college. Women get a break, but may certainly join if they wish.

>>205210
>time-consuming
>high-school
wtf.

Are you one of those people complaining you need to read & attend lectures for 10 hours a day in college?

>>205210
>Nationalize
stoped reading there..

>>205073
stop the government subsidizing ?

>>205210

Holy shit, how awful. A case could be made for nationalization, but everything else is just terrible.

>>205222
I agree with that, but how exactly should the school restructure once they lose an income stream?
Colleges in america are like country clubs, where they sell exclusivity, where as information is pretty universal.
Like if Harvard was actually ran like a business, wouldn't they franchise?

>>205229
>a case could be made for nationalization

That's funny. That's the one thing I expected people here to disagree with more so than anything else I said.

>>205250

A lot of people would disagree with it, but the case could at least be made since we have many examples to choose from. Most of the rest of that is just batshit insane.

>>205260
>rest of that is just batshit insane

Why, can I ask? Seems reasonable to me.

>>205272

It would take far too long to discuss and it would be a waste of time anyway. You're either trolling or you're crazy. Either way, there's no point in discussing it.

>>205286
So, in other words, I'm 100% right and you can't find a flaw in my plan.

>>205248
All colleges are ran like bussinesses because they are bussinesses.Harvard sells exclusivity like lamborghini does for example.That, and quality, is why it is so expensive There are plenty of colleges that have branches.

>But how exactly should the school restructure once they lose an income stream
Well, you can't let education cost shoot just because some schools may not restructure properly after an income loss.

>>205210
>I think grammar should be entirely restructured.

I'm not sure about all other high schools, but my high schools english classes were a joke. Regular english classes were the only classes that actually learned grammar skills, such as proper pronoun usage, comma placement, or even the proper usage of verbs. Honors classes just read books and did little art projects on the book (Make a diorama of huck finns asshole).

Mfw the kids in regular english that werent retarded did better on english ACT and SAT.

>>205335
Every one should have learned all that crap in elementary school, at least by middle school.

>>205322
Colleges are somewhat different from businesses. Businesses try to get as much income as possible with the most efficient operation they can run to get as much profit as possible. Colleges try to get as much income as possible so they can spend it on shit to attract more students to increase their income and repeat the cycle.

>>205364
I can't argue with logic like that.

Does anyone else hate college sports and think they're a racket and a bullshit waste of money?
I go to a school that is transitioning to D1 and all the money we're pissing on these athletes make me seethe.
I get it from a PR angle, but it's fucking bollocks.

>>205335
I meant grammar school, as in elementary school.

>>205210

Is this copypasta?

No one can be this delusional, right?

>>205210
IQ tests serve almost no purpose.

>>205617
they only serve to establish a lower limit (retards), once you pass that threshold, a bigger number is really a circlejerk. Pic Related

>>205073
>1st Grade
Basic addition/subtraction
>2nd Grade
Basic times tables/fractions
>3rd Grade
Division, Powers, Roots
>4th grade
Algebra
>5th Grade
Geometry, Logic, Sets, Combinatorics, Proofs
>6th Grade
Higher order Algebra. Trig, Exponential, Logs, Series, Sums, Limits
>7th Grade
Calculus, Matrix Algebra
Chemistry
>8th Grade
Vector Calculus, ODEs
Mechanics, Thermodynamics
C++ Programming
>9th Grade
Linear Algebra, Probability, Statistics
Electromagnetism, Circuits
Digital Logic, Comp Arch
>10th Grade
Real Analysis, Abstract Algebra
Stat Mechanic, Optics, Advance Mechanics and Special Relativity
Data Structures and Algorithms
American Government and Political Science
>11th Grade
PDEs, Complex Analysis, Fourier Analysis
Quantum Mechanics
Numerical Analysis, OS, Parallel Programing
Macro & Micro Economics
>12th Grade
Electives (Organic Chem, Biology, GR, Astrophysics, Robotics, Comp Vision, International Economics, etc...)
Money and Banking, Finance

Grade level should no longer tied to academic year or age and after 12 years of free education they get a degree stating the highest grade level completed in various subjects. Students are free to pick and change the schools they go to and, by extension, the pace of their studies. Scholarships available to all students that want to study any foreign language(s) of their choice on their own time instead of the limited handful at one school.

>>205073
Replace "Must have college degree" check box with "Must have high school degree/GED with 2.5 year experience at BK/MD/Macy/WalMart/BestBuy/etc or college degree" for the majority of liberal arts grad jobs.

Problem solved

>>205073
State sponsored colleges should not offer majors in trash like psychology. They should be free for citizens but have stringent minimum requirements that exclude layabouts, idiots, and your average college football player.

>>205385

so it's a Ponzi scheme?

>>205222
A better solution would be to restrict college entry to the top 7-8% of performers on a national standardized test and make entry illegal for the rest of the population.

This is what they do in germany, for example

It would force the colleges to become price competetive in order to maintain their student bodies. It would maintain the value of a degree, and it would force dumbasses to work at mcdonalds they way they already do.

>>205630
IQ is causative of high achievement in all stages of life, and IQ is directly causative of higher IQ later in life.

It directly (though imperfectly) measures the capacity to recognize patterns and manipulate data.

Stop jerking yourself off just because you got a low score on one

>>206249
And it would enforce stupids in high school who don't try to start actually trying instead of just "flowing with the system"

I like you anon. I think the 7-8% is a bit strict though. 15% would be less...nazi...

>>206249

> force dumbasses to work at mcdonalds they way they already do.

that already happens though

I don't think your idea is bad, but the thing is that if we restrict "official" university entry to the top 10% or so of students then we're only going to see the rise of a plethora of community, online, and technical colleges offering (arguably) better degrees. Of course this is not inherently a bad thing, but it would be funny to see.

Introduce a dual-education system similar to German/Swiss models, which combine apprenticeships with formal schooling for the young, tying education to demand. Also, throw in privately-funded scholarships for students to attend private schools.

And of course, introduce merit pay for teachers and close failing schools. Allow kids to attend schools outside their district. Fuck the unions.

>mfw a serious discussion on education reform on /biz/ and not /pol/

Make higher education free. Schools are nothing more than country clubs these days. With the internet you can teach yourself just about anything you want (with the exception being the equipment school offers). Employers seem to only care about experience these days anyway.

>>206268
Thanks. Wish I could claim credit for the idea

7-8 is what the german speaking nations use. It's rather strict, but that's also the reason they succeed.

It's effectively only 11% in japan because they don't have a culture that "demands" that every student be given respect. You either earn it or you don't. The germans effectively have our similarly-minded entitlement culture, though, so legal intervention was necessary.

>>206271
Of course it happens. The idea of cutting off applicants below a certain threshold, though, is effectively reducing the entry barriers for the intelligent to get into the educated workforce. This is efficient because it drives up wages for educated work, forcing companies to cut useless positions, and allows them to hire from a more secure talent pool, and feel more secure investing in their training.

Of course there will be market alternatives. But the employers will recognize the inherent inferiority of such applicants, and relegate them to appropriate industries, such as carpentry or welding. When recruiters reject a 3.8 student from harvard, it's a fairly clear indication that harvard's standards have slipped up

You can't arbitrarily close failing schools. Our schools fail because they're full of niggers, anon. No teacher can succeed with them.

All you'd be doing is firing entry-level teachers and increasing class sizes

>>206293
>make higher education free
>asking the taxpayers to fund this entire thing
>including the people who want to pursue useless degrees
Occupy Wall Street much?

Granted, you're right about the Internet. It's going drive a lot of colleges bankrupt in the coming two decades.

Half-right about experience. Connections formed in colleges (at least the top 50 or so) are also important.

Diversify schooling. Education should not be job training. The more you try to combine them, the less effective they become at either.

Return liberal arts to the status of luxury for those with the time and money... and/or talent to become academics. Stop paying poor kids (or encouraging them to take out loans) to learn whatever field in the hopes of "getting a better job."

Instead send the less academically-inclined into fields where they can learn skills to succeed. A 2-year degree from an institution that teaches real skills would be far more valuable than a 4-year one that taught you to analyze Dickens and cram for exams.

Science would still be academic while teaching practical techniques. But remove general education.

The universities would still be for those willing to put in the time and effort to diversify their education. The quality of this education would vastly improve, as well. Your english classes wouldn't have to spend time teaching the difference between their, there, and they're.

>>206322
Your ideas are a bit muddled.

Who provides job training? What jobs should be included if there is to be a federal program to help this along? (keep in mind most professions don't employ more than 40k people max)

Do you train them for a specific position, or for the general field as a whole?

How do they work on being placed?

The answer to all of this is nothing. You can do almost nothing about any of this. You need to teach kids generalized cognitive skills until they turn 16, at which point, the smartest among them should be given preferential hiring treatment in whatever part of the workforce they like, and the lower half should be sterilized and put on some sort of welfare.

No matter how much you improve job training, there is only 1 job created for every 2 entrants into the labor market ever year. Nothing can bridge that gap except for economic policy

>>206255
gb2/sci/
Mensafags getting BTFO

>>206331
The ideas are general. I was more voicing my discontent with higher education being seen as job training. All it does is lower the standards while providing little practical skills. But to answer a few questions:
>Who provides job training? What jobs should be included if there is to be a federal program to help this along? (keep in mind most professions don't employ more than 40k people max)
Different schools for different professions. Ask companies what skills they want to see novices to possess, and teach them. There could be general classes that give students an idea of the kinds of jobs they'd like, if they don't already know.
>Do you train them for a specific position, or for the general field as a whole?
General field, though there could be tracks that train for a specific certification.
>How do they work on being placed?
I assume you mean the graduates. The school would have connections to certain companies, extensive career support, etc. Just like any college does now.
>No matter how much you improve job training, there is only 1 job created for every 2 entrants into the labor market ever year. Nothing can bridge that gap except for economic policy
Perhaps, but at least they aren't filling up universities in the meantime.

>>206356
I know the ideas were general, I just wanted to get you thinking.

There is no way, institutionally, for companies to communicate to secondary institutions which would be bound down by laws, regulatory standards, and red tape, to impart to them what the student needs to know moreso than they themselves can.

The problem with what you're saying, generally, is that the needs of companies shift every 2-3 years. It takes longer than that just to pass new standards. Education will always fall behind industry.

What's important is to give industries the labor they need within the highest IQ range they can possibly get. Tech, med, and research get the best. Finance comes next. Civil service and mil come next. Hard industries come after that, then construction, etc.

Cognitive ability is SO much more important than actual job training that college graduates in SK study 6 months for a separate test that samsung uses to screen applicants. Technical skills have nothing to do with the selection. It's ALL cognitive ability. Samsung wants the smartest and they'll pay for the training.

>>206370
>The problem with what you're saying, generally, is that the needs of companies shift every 2-3 years. It takes longer than that just to pass new standards. Education will always fall behind industry.
It's difficult if they're standardized, yes. That's why the schools would be individual businesses competing with each other. Good ones would develop reputations and get rated based on graduate enrollment and salaries. Just like colleges get ranked.
>
What's important is to give industries the labor they need within the highest IQ range they can possibly get. Tech, med, and research get the best. Finance comes next. Civil service and mil come next. Hard industries come after that, then construction, etc.
I see what you're saying. But what about interest? What if someone with high IQ wants to work a low-skill job? What place do people with lower IQs have in technical fields?

>>206390
Even if standardization is dropped, if you train students in "technical" skillsets that will 99% of the time become irrelevant, not only are you left without technical skills, you're left with someone who is unadaptable and unable to be judged for his talen in any relevant context. This is why generalized iq is so important.

ex: whatsapp creators applied to work at facebook, citing their extensive work experience in the field. They were rejected as "not innovative enough." Working with experience as the sole measure of the worth of talent is worthless.

?high iq working low skill positions.
Obviously the supply of labor for high skill jobs is higher. Higher wages and status would be the primary motivation.
>lower iqs in technical fields
Literally impossible. Take target's former head of cybersecurity (who was a woman who was a diversity hire!)

Well guess what, they lost 4 million credit card numbers that are now being used by the hackers to make tons of money.

>>205073
I agree school should be nationalized. School shouldn't have to cause students to go in debt, and careers shouldn't be dependent on University. For instance, there should be a national certification board for various Majors. If you want Petroleum Engineering, you first take a national standardized test, and then if you pass, to receive your major you do a dissertation.

During the highschool years there should be a strong focus on mathematics and sciences and completely drop English in the freshman year of highschool. As well, as there being specific high schools that caters a prospective student's career desires.

America was founded on a principle of autonomy, self-working, and educated society regardless of income. It makes no sense to go to a university to show up on paper, if you already know everything about your subject. I for one have never learned anything from a teacher except maybe a few philosophical lessons. I learn much better on my own. Why do I have to pay to learn nothing?

>>206419
>completely drop english
Are you fucking retarded? Certainly the curriculum should focus less on literature and more on composition, but are you fucking retarded?

Are you...retarded?

>>206401
Urban legends and unreadable sentence structure, never change /biz/.

>>206424
After high school, if we are interested in English you can continue it on your own. We read every day, even now, we are developing English skills. By reading books on other subjects you learn English. When I was in fourth grade, I had a reading level of a college graduate. There is no need for it.

>>206425
>iq is not important to job performance
>minorities and women don't underperform professionally

>>206427
/sci/ pls go

The current balanced model is in place because A) School is mandatory and not everyone is good in every subject and B) Not every job is in a STEM field; specialization should and does wait until college.

>>206434
Not him, he's a fag, but you're a joke if you think specialization happens in college.

Having a degree in engineering doesn't actually teach you how to fulfill an engineering role. All the firms basically completely fucking retrain you from the ground up anyway.

Engineers used to get hired and trained from out of high school/

>>206428
>iq
>ever being more meaningful than work ethic

>>206434
/lit/ gtfo
So what? they can do history, philosophy, a foreign language, Social studies, psychology, debate, film studies, music, or art instead. English is a useless curriculum cause I would hope you would master it by the time you were 10, 8 years of studying it is a long time.

The only reason people get English Majors is to teach English. Thats useless.

>>206437
I agree with you. Either way, training on the job is still far and away better than dropping basic subjects in fucking high school.

>>206437
Thats why you have a national board of certification, that way they can be trained classically if they opt to rather than paying their way to college. Some people learn better hands on with a mentor, while others learn better by themselves, and the small proportion who learns better from university can go to university.

All you have to do to get your major is to take the national standardized test, and complete your masters dissertation.

>>206441
You literally just listed 8 academic areas directly influenced by a literature, grammar, and composition class. But no, let's just throw differential equations at 14-year-olds because everyone's brain is wired for STEM.

>>206441
>literacy is not important
>history does not create the underpinnings of cooperative society
>comparing literacy to art
>comparing a 10 year old's literacy to the level of literacy required of an adult in civilized society
>implying most job in the science sector are even more than centrifuge button pressers

>>206449
Everything is influenced by Grammar, Literature, and composition, because the majority of information comes from books. By reading books, or even using english, you get better at those skills. And you don't complete drop the course, you take English up to freshman year in highschool.

And again why have a subject that is only used to teach other kids that same subject? We already have an educating degree for that specific purpose no point of having a separate English Major.

>>206448
People should be hired straight from highschool into industry, with a mandatory priority ranking given to top scorers on nationalized tests.

The only reason university should even exist is for research

>>206458
You are absolutely delusional if you believe a high school freshman is going to self-study advanced literature effectively. As for the meaning of liberal arts, refer to >>206454

We don't and let the plebs die out of stupid.

I'm pretty sure this has been the plan since Reagan, and God dammit we gotta start what we finished, this is America after all.

>>206454
Nice non sequitur I never said that literacy is not important. And if you go to a decent school by the time you finish 4th grade you have a college level literacy that improves as you continue reading. There is no point of having a monkey to point to passages and force kids to write about it.

I also never said STEM jobs are better than non-STEM jobs. Math and science is just a harder subject to master as you aren't practicing it for your entire lifetime, like you are awake like you are English. You think in english, converse in english, write in english, and read in english. Math and science simply need more emphasis because they are more difficult.

>>205210
>IQ tests
>Because that will make equal oportunities for everyone, and make the country get the best from the people.

I'd be better to do something like the nordic countries do. I know you don't like socialist policies because your country is entirely a capitalist society, but if there's something right, I'd be definitively nordic education system.

>>206468
>4th grade
>college-level literacy

We're talking about an educational system here, not your special snowflake ass. By definition, the average 4th grader has 4th grade literacy, which is nowhere near what is needed in society.

>>206472
plebs increase the birthrate

>>206465
Don't drag me into defending the liberal arts. The value of literacy, particularly of anyone to whom we grant the right to vote, defend themselves in court, and grant the ability to have tiny thems running around, is paramount.

I wouldn't drag any of the liberal arts in with history. Psych and art and lit and women's studies can get fucked and kill themselves as professional fields.

But reading is important. Composition, history, and STEM should comprise the bulk of high school curriculums as they are broadly applicable and completely necessary for functioning in modern society.

>>206461
>lol admiring china's method
>Admiring constant poverty
Everyone should be given an equal opportunity to study or choose to go to university instead of relying on a nationalized test. Studies show that family income is directly correlated to an SAT score. Thats why those type of tests are unreliable, and shouldnt be use to determine the life of a student.

As an American, I believe in equal opportunity and freedom of choice, if someone wants to be an engineer then he can be engineer as long as he puts the work to do it.

>>206469
can you cliffnote it for us mr costanza

>>206480
Look if you practice something your entire life you get better at it. By the time you graduate highschool, even without an English class, if you've been doing your work, You've done 10,000 hours of English.

>>206482
My point isn't that history, art, or (God forbid) women's studies are as good as physics and math. My point is that literature and composition beyond the 4th-grade level is essential in society.

>>206468
I already said literature was useless 3 times. What the fuck do you want from me.

But a 4th grader is not functionally literate. Get a 4th grader to analyze a contract or lease he's signing. Get a 4th grader to pick apart a speech the president is giving and ask him to pick out the lies that are being told.

Literacy and generalized verbal intelligence is a lot more than what you think it is. No wonder you think the scope of literacy is so narrow: you yourself barely posess it.

>>206480
actually the average 4th grader has a lower reading level. The average ADULT has an 8th grade reading level and the average black has a 3rd grade reading level, so...

>>206488
Have you ever heard a high schooler (let alone a black one) talk with their friends. Do you want that to be the extent of their formal language training?

>>206495

Please look at
>>206488

>>206499
hur dur wat about reading formal books? If there was an emphasis on self study kids would read more about their desired subjects which would help in english. The average black doesn't perform well in school regardless, if he did all his work and read his history book like hes suppose to (an example) he would have already developed a nice large vocabulary repertoire.

>>206483
>china is the only country that uses standardized testing
>what is south korea
>what is the samsung standardized applicant intelligence test
You DO have freedom of choice. You have freedom to study hard and work hard IF you choose to. Or you can be lazy and choose not to learn basic things such as literacy and algebra.

The strongest correlator to SAT performance is IQ and race.

>>206504
Once again, relying on ANY high schooler to self-study in a skill they will use their entire life is begging for trouble.

>>206506
Wrong it's income.
I dont think peoples lives should depend on a single test. That ruins the pursuit of natural education, instead of people studying for their subjects they'll be studying for a single test their entire school life. This is what destroys innovation, and promotes rote learning.

>>206501
But just speaking english in an everyday context is NOT going to give you the ability to pick apart legal documents or be able to place the actions of politicians, or the effects of the law, in a historical or accurate context.

By chaining people to a 4th grade understanding of the world you are effectively reducing their literacy and ability to EXPAND their worldview. This is why literacy is the key thing to focus on. Literacy, not literature.

>>206494
yeah, of course. Is history and english composition really considered a liberal art? That's a shame. They're kind of the basis of civilization

>>206509
Then if they dont keep up they obviously don't have the will to continue school. They can flip burgers for the rest of their lives.

>>206515
Why are you stuck on 4th grade? Another Non-sequitur, you are assuming that the level stays the same just because they dont have english classes. People learn when they read on their own, by reading and studying out of a book for your subject you learn and develop the skills of composition, literature, and grammar.

>>206513
>income dictates whether you can read or do simply math you learn by 9th grade
Yeah, sure.

Do you even realize how the SAT is structured? They literally don't even use vocabulary over a certain limit or math beyond a certain difficulty. It only, ONLY focuses on the mastery of the fundamentals and attention to detail

As an addendum, there was a woman who wrote an article for newsweek, or maybe the NYT. She worked as a publisher for 20 years and an editor before that. When she took the SAT alongside her son, she scored only in the top 40%. The SAT tests fundamentals and attention to detail ONLY.

You are a retard

>>206516
You haven't listened to a single thing you have read all thread, have you? Average high schoolers are unmotivated, will not self-study, and do not speak at a level equivalent with receiving a formal education. You cannot just suggest that everyone go into unskilled labor, as the purpose of school is to provide skilled labor in the first place.

>>206522
A fifth grader is going to competently guide himself to adult level literacy?

Are you fucking stupid?

Public schools are there to guide ALL of us and provide a common basis by which we can compare talent.

I'm not saying some people could get by without it. Those people will succeed no matter what happens. I'm not saying the system doesn't let people fall through the cracks. Those people would fail no matter what happens.

The educational system provides teh working basis of an entire ECONOMY. Something you don't seem capable of grasping

>>206525
IIRC the ACT is better anyway, if a little easier

>>206525
Nice ad hominem. Now I know you've given up.

Oh LOOK NYT recently released an article describing the correlation.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and-family-income/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

>>206526
Yet you expect them to depend on a single test to decide the rest of their lives at the end of HS. Nice going dolan, you don't even listen to yourself.

>>206536
Wat. Lrn2id's, i never said that.

>>206534

Now you're desperate.
>Ignoratio Elenchi
What you have said is completely irrelevant and you fail to realize that in school you read textbooks which happen to be in english.

>>206529
I don't actually know the details of the act. Care to explain the differences?

>>206533
Have you ever thought for just a second that maybe, MAYBE IQ is as generally inheritable as height, and that stupid people have stupid kids, and that stupid people are less capable of earning money?

>>206543
Yeah my bad, you and the other guy are blending. A HS student who is unmotivated in all disciplines is a person unmotivated for life and the government should not waste any money on their non-existent future.

>>206546
ACT doesn't penalize you for guessing and is comprehension and grammar-based with zero focus on rote vocabulary.

>>206549
You can only let so many people slip through the cracks before public education loses its place.

>>206546
Have you ever thought that you can get tutors for IQ and practice taking the tests to get better at them? Have you ever thought that the guy with the highest IQ in the world is an erotic writer and says thats why his IQ is so high cause he does tests? Have you ever thought that no one isn't inherently stupid unless they have some deformity and its 90% environmental?

Just make it all an online extension of high school (except classes that require physical activity of course) there are so many ways software can be used instead of paying professors who probably never had a real job in the field to begin with.

>>206557
this. anything public means control.. Which means no competition that promotes evolution.

>>206560
Of course you can study for an IQ test. But you don't need to in order to score very high. In fact, most of the IQ tests don't even have any words on them. Most people don't study, which is what makes it the perfect metric. That's what makes it a better metric than math on the SAT, because math IS studied.

Geneticists already agree that intelligence is 60% inheritable. That's more than environment by 1.5x. Oh, and of that environmental variability, it includes people who are starving. So the variabillity of a well fed european population is almost entirely genetic

>>206551
Interesting.

Guessing should be penalized though. There should be a disincentive to guess, which can fuck with individual scores, though not the overall score of a population.

I suppose the de-emphasis on vocabulary is useful in measuring generalized cognitive ability. But the problem is that most colleges are interested in literacy, which DOES measure cognitive ability, it's just harder to do in a standardized way.

>>206580
Sorry, I didn't complete my first point. Performance on IQ tests is heritable. Funny, considering it's not studied for, and there are no words.

>>206580
Where the fuck are you getting your info from? You haven't cited any of your sources, and starving is one small element of it.

>>206600
Oh, sorry, I thought I posted my link

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/361IQParke.html

Everyone agrees intelligence is mostly heritable. Not sure why you're so fucking behind. This shit is a decade old.

>>205292
Not the guy, but since he is too lazy to go at it, I will.

>Wants to fix the education system
>Wants IQ tests

You can have one or the other. National Standardized tests are terrible in this country.

I decided against going into teaching after my sophmore year.

The more you learn about education, the more you find out that standardized tests are a waste of time for everyone except for the people getting paid to create them.

>>206607
>standardized tests are a waste of time
>the people with high standardized test scores WITHIN the same universities go on to do better than their low scoring peers

>>206605
that's not really a source...

>>206607
Someone just watched season 4 of the wire

I do share your senitments. I think students should have access to corporate apprenticeship, instead of this go to school, get an internship ??? profit model.
In addition, I think more people should have portfolios, instead a CV that does nothing but list certificates

>>206613
No, it's a syllabus, because you clearly need to go back to school

It's being taught at a public school in an undergraduate science course. It's a fucking fact.

Deal with it

>>206618
>science
hue

>>206605
>http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/361IQParke.html
>2014
>Posting a source of social darwinism

>>206622
>>206623
>population genetics are no longer a science
Thanks, liberals. I think I can kill myself without regrets now

>>206626
I'm not doubting that it is. But posting a syllabus from a psychology course with no link to real scientific studies that show how exactly intelligence is inherited, let alone how they quantify it.

I'll be more satisfied if such information can be supplied.

>>206626
>Skinhead, stop your anthropomorphism
"That heritability depends on the population in which it is measured is one of the most frequently repeated caveats in the social sciences, but it is nevertheless often forgotten in the breach. (For example, it is nearly meaningless for Dar-Nimrod and Heine to note that 'heritability [of intelligence is] typically estimated to range from .50 to .85' [p. 805]. The heritability of intelligence isn’t anything, and even placing it in a range is misleading. Making a numerical point estimate of the heritability of intelligence is akin to saying, 'Social psychologists usually estimate the F ratio for the fundamental attribution error to be between 2.0 and 4.0.') The observation that genotypic variation accounts for 90% of the variation in height in the modern world depends on the variability of genotype and environment relevant to height. Among cloned animals with widely varying diets, body size is perfectly environmental with heritability of 0; in genetically variable animals raised in identical environments heritability is 1.0. This is no mere statistical fine point: it means that the entire project of assessing how essentially genetic traits are in terms of measured heritability coefficients is a fool’s errand."

-http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/papers2/Articles%20for%20Online%20CV/Turkheimer_darnimrod%20comm%20(2011).pdf

>>206656
Thank-you based god.

ATTN:
ID: LN6jjOl0

Please cease your shitposting here about IQ, there's a place for pseudoscience and it's called /sci/. So please if your IQ is so huge do something with your time other than shit-tier trolling. This is about addressing the ills of our education system.

>>206640
>clone genes can only act and seize upon opportunities in the environment
Thanks for the introduction to epigenetics.

In modern society, the constraining factor on traits like height is obviously genetics. No one is starving to death, dr. malthus.

Similarly, for intelligence, no one is starving.

If you mean environment in terms of family income, well why do koreans outperform blacks when they are just as poor.

If you mean HIGH incomes, why do the richest of africans underperform the poorest of whites? Those rich blacks almost certainly live in mostly white areas.

the g factor to inheritance is not meaningless. It's as important of a predictor of performance among individuals as it is among groups.

In fact, by measuring g we can get superior outcomes of predicting performance than can we by trying to predict from neblous values such as "family life," and the like.

>>206640
are you really trying to tell me that these rich blacks with 100k+ incomes grew up in a "worse" environment with fewer opportunities than the 10k income whites?

>>206658
Good job you try to pick and choose evidence from my own source. Please refer to the conclusion made by Turkheimer. "it means that the entire project of assessing how essentially genetic traits are in terms of measured heritability coefficients is a fool’s errand."
Go away fool.

>>206659
Ok 1/10 go back to /pol/ skinhead.

>>206656
How can we address the education system without discussing the relative merits of the students?

You cannot expect an individual with short legs to become a good sprinter, and you cannot turn a population with weak mathematical abilities into scientists.

Let's work with the strengths we DO have, and emphasize those, rather than forcing half of our population to bang their head against a brick wall before letting them fall into poverty and crim

>>206668
Ok this thread is closed until this retard skinhead goes to sleep.

>>206668
You don't have to spew nonsense and claim it's science. Can you be constructive and not reduce everything to, hur dur you're dumb, into the gulags you goes

>>206663
>genetic diversity and control food leads to variable heights
>genetic control and food control leads to control heights
>genetics is a fools errand

The american school system is FINE.

Japanese and koreans in america outscore asians in japan and korea.

Germans and french in america outscore french and germans in france and germany.

So if it's not the schools... who else can we blame?

Also, the chart is accurate. Fucking look it up

>>206676
what exactly is your IQ and what has that number netted you in your existence

>>206676
Wtf is with your ignoratio elenchi?
You're saying stuff that is completely unrelated and using syllogistic-fallacies

>germans and french in america outscore french and germans in france and germany

LOL NO
My inspiration for dropping the native language as a subject comes FROM FRANCE as well as the emphasis of math. All kids in france finish Calculus II before graduating High school.

Stop making bullshit up you are desperate in proving your inculcated fallacious ideas, no one likes a cynic. So please go away.

You're spewing incoherent trash.

>>206677
My identity has zero to do with the science behind cognitive development which is pretty widelely accepted among psychologists and geneticists. It's genetic. .4-.8! That's on the level of: almost half, to almost all.

>>206683
Stop moving the goalposts, we gave evidence showing you that idea is wrong and you never rebutted it. You're probably the worst debater in all of history.

>>206683
so you don't practice what you preach opinion discarded. Correlation is not causation
go fuck yourself

>>206687
>correlation is not causation
here is a spread on a .4 correlation. do you see a causative effect? Yes. square the r and you get rsquared, which is called the COEFFICIENT OF DETERMINATION. Determination, You see that?

>>206686
You didn't give me a rebuttal. You gave me an intro into the field of epigenetics. Which is that genetics responds to environment, IF it can. Some genes respond to stress by becoming more intelligent/adaptive. Some genes respond to stress by being less intelligent/adaptive.

Yes, we already know this.

Taking epigenetics into account, do you REALLY think that the genes that respond to stress by reducing cognitive development are going to be the smarter ones in a stress free scenario?

(hint: they've studied this. They are NOT. The genes respond the way they do because the environment prioritized other factors over intellignece: e.g. reaction time, fight or flight)

>>206692
>COEFFICIENT OF DETERMINATION
I'm a math major and you are palpably incorrect
there's this site called khanacademy. Use it you degenerate

>>206692
whoops. Here's the .4 r spread. It's pretty fucking significant. a .6 spread is a very thin oval and a .8 spread is a very thick line.

Intelligence is .4 to .8, likely varying depending on the population and the diversity within it. Which means that some populations at .4 are still strong relationships, while others at .8 you can basically account for 64% of the differences in intelligence being accounted for solely on genes, being that the data is just a thick fucking line

>>206695
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/probability/regression/regression-correlation/v/r-squared-or-coefficient-of-determination

:^)

>>206698
You obviously didn't read the paper I gave. Gtfo all you do is move the goal posts.

>>206640
AS THIS DIRECTLY acknowledges your claim and dismisses it as a fool's errand.

>>206703
>>206703
I already addressed the paper you fucking idiot. It's called epigenetics. And it doesn't EVER say genetics don't matter. It SAYS that genetics is mediated by environment, and that in equalized environments genetics is the sole determinant.

Are you fucking 12, or just black?

No one else is even remotely angered by this

>>206706
can you stop derailing the fucking topic
what relevant use are these pseudo results to the matter at hand?

>>206733
who's strawmanning now?

>>206730
>what relevant use are the results of intelligence to the field of schooling
Who is moving the goalposts now?

>>206735
Not even a strawman. You are saying the results of intelligence tests are irrelevant to trying to make kids intelligent through teh schooling system. That is moving hte goalposts...

>>206737
so tell what novel reforms can be made from this information? Do you want a The Republic style caste system based on a number designed to determine whether an individual was mentally handicapped or not?

>>206741
See friend, THAT is a strawman.

I think we should assign responsibility and jobs according to merit. Nothing would change except for the false accusation that somehow our education system is to blame for the disparities in achievement and violence.

>>206749
but i'm pretty sure it has a big R2.

>>206749
or we could look at other nations where there is no affirmative action and see if they are disparities in achievement and violence

are blacks in Canada or the UK less violent than blacks in USA - yes

do blacks in Canada or the UK achieve more than blacks in the USA - yes

guess you were wrong

>>206749
>majority of corporate jobs demand degrees
>degrees can only be achieved by piling on debt
No education is no the source of disparity at all

>>206754
Whatever it deals it, it can only possibly be causative in the gap between genetics. Which is as much as 60% but as small or smaller than 10%. Because you can't really separate home environment from education.

>>206756
They're still plenty violent in the UK and canada. Several times moreso than the background population,

>>206764
But that doesn't follow. America and britain are the only countries where students take on debt to go to school. It's free or nearly free through most of europe, china, japan, and sk

>>205216
yes, middle and high school are utter wastes of time for most people. it's basically babysitting for pre-/teens. tell me you didn't spend the good part of 7 hours a day doing fuck all.

>>205210
Nationalize=nigger pandering, muh equality, etc.
Just look at how awful public schools are, in Chicago the mayor is shutting down schools because people in grade 12 can't fucking read and write (yes I'm serious, they lack basic literacy) and he is getting called a racist.