/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>20492457
>Do I just need to man up and pay the taxes on it when I cash out?
yup I guess this is it famalam

>>20492457
You obviously wouldnt want to sell anything but your staking gains, but yes

>cash out
>send taxman his 20% of your profit

Rest easy

>>20492457
>thinks he can cash out
kek

plato o plomo bitch

>>20492457
Stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals... the list goes on anon.

>>20492457
>make big money
>get audited
>make $20
>waste of time for you and the IRS

Just pay your taxes, it's not like you worked hard for that money

>>20492671
subtle bait

I would like a quick run down on the procedure of cashing out millions during this bull run. I’d assume smartest move would be to cash out in 25-50k increments in case coinbase tried to screw you and for that throughout the year after link is above say 100 dollars? Maybe a few large 1-200k sells during candles to be safe. I wonder how much the tax man will poke around your finances though if you wind up with a couple million?

>>20492700
hahahaha my man don't worry about this, you will not make millions because you are a retard (i.e you are browsing this board)

>>20492700
You dont use coinbase to cash out large amounts. You use an otc bitcoin buyer. There are many in uk

This is probably the most important topic related to Link but everyone refuses to talk about it because they haven't thought that far ahead and will get absolutely fucked by the government when they eventually need to cash out. You need to hire a tax accountant that actually knows how crypto works to help you structure it in a way that aligns with your income, whether you need a holding company etc. If you cash it out all at once you will be paying an astronomically high tax rate (yes you have to pay it or else the IRS will absolutely fuck you because your bank will report a massive amount of money with no obvious origin)

>>20492814
long-term capital gains are 23.8% due to king nigger. so if you held link for more than a year, you'll be good.

Im convinced anyone seriously discussing paying tax on crypto is a government agent. No real crypto enthousiast can be so dumb actually be concerned about this

>>20492866
Sure. Also depends on your tax jurisdiction. In leafland you pay 50% of capital gains at your marginal tax rate for that year

>>20492457
option 1) you pay the capital gains tax, walk away knowing you have millions and know nobody can ever take it from you
option 2) you don't pay taxes and hope that the IRS doesn't notice that some neet is now living a life of luxury unexplainably

the choice is yours

>>20492929
damn and i thought the US was fucked. yeah it depends on the country. germans pay no long-term capital gains. the only good countries for cashing out are malta and caribbean. puerto rico if you're an american, but you have to live there for half the year.

>>20492940
Option 3) discretely cash out what you need to live a humble life, be minimalistic, find jesus and fuck bitches

>>20492914
> he thinks he will be able to get money into his bank accounts without flags being raised around where it originated from
> he thinks he will be able to buy other asset classes by using crypto
> he thinks bitcoin will be the new world currency

Pick one

I trade forex and cash out my gains to bitcoin, so I have no idea how to properly do the taxes on it. I don't think the long term gains rate applies to me since I receive monthly crypto payments

>>20492457
Imagine paying taxes

>>20492809
don't they all want KYC for anything over £1k?

>>20492969
>he thinks he can get away with it just like that
Unless you convert everything to Monero (after making all your purchases in monero of course) you're hosed. Unless you denounce your citizenship, move to Germany, then cash out. That's about the only real way

What would I do if I am still a dependent and never had a job/paid taxes? Surely they can’t tax me too hard can they?

>>20492994
>Yo bro Ill send you one bitcoin if you give me 9000$ in cash

>>20493134
>He is gonna keep millions in cash and never perform any transactions that require his identity
good luck with that one I guess

>>20493044
accountants don't cost much. ask your parents if they know one.

>>20492809
Essplain

>>20493343
you find someone that wants to buy bitcoin over the counter
hopefully an institution
not some criminal enterprise

>>20492457

>>20492457
Why doesn't someone make a credit card where you pay for shit in crypto. You're not cashing out you're just paying with it. The company pays the currency on your behalf with a minor fee for using it scaled to whatever you purchased. Doesn't this circumvent capital gains?

>>20492457
If you live in the US and your income level is below like 50k your capital gains are nil

>>20492457
Withdraw it to overseas accounts like in Panama.

>>20494982
I say this but have no idea if that's actually possible. Does anyone know if it's possible to just fly to Panama and withdraw your gains into a Panamanian bank account?

>>20495042
COME TO PANMANIA!
DOWN IN PANMANIA!

WE MEAN YOU!
RASLAFRASAPLFFFBT!

>>20492940
Do you think the bank would freeze someones account if he suddenly deposited millions?

>>20494221
>You're not cashing out you're just paying with it
thats a taxable transaction

>>20492965
>>20492929
only 50% of the gains are taxed. so even in the highest tax brack of like ~50% you are paying 50% x 50% = 25% tax. and that's only if you cash out enormous sums all at once like a moron. cash out like 100k a year and you'd be paying like 25% tax on your gains

>>20495862
> cash out like 100k a year and you'd be paying like 25% tax on your gains
forgot to multiply that by 50% - you'd be paying ~12.5% tax

>>20495497
Of course, what do you think anti laundering is?

>>20494315
That isn’t true because capital gains also add to your AGI. So you’d eventually end up paying 20% capital gains tax once you cash out enough

>>20492700
sorry to break it to you but you’re not cashing out any substantial amount of money without the tax man coming for you. i’ve been paying taxes on my crypto gains the last few years specifically because if/when LINK moons I know my chance of being audited goes up substantially and everything you do on the blockchain is public and easily traceable. I feel sorry for all the idiots who think otherwise. even if you’re really careful and do everything on decentralized exchanges and cash out via an OTC bitcoin buyer you’re gonna have to hide that money for the rest of your life and if/when you get popped you’re getting money laundering charges.

1) Send your linkies to AVEE
2) Take out a loan for 50% of your stack to USDC
3) Open LLC in your state, setup bank account, setup LLC account on coinbase
4) Send your USDC to coinbase LLC account
5) Sell your USDC for USD on Coinbase
6) Cash out USD to your LLC Bank account
7) Pay no tax on account balance because loans are not taxable forms of income.

>>20492914
you must live in a 3rd world country. anyone who thinks they can hide from the IRS has never made any real money. the more you make the more they come after you.

>>20496042
AVEE?

>>20495908
Is that for long term capital gains or just any capital gain? I'm a leaf but scared shitless to cash out a single cent because I have lost too much trading data so it's pretty much impossible to give an accurate records of my transactions. At this point I'd be ready to pay full tax at 0 cost basis on anything I cash out if the rate is reasonable and it keeps things simple

>>20495923
So how would one deposit money into the bank after cashing out on coinbase? Just call the bank ahead of time? This is assuming the anon in question has been paying taxes and has all paperwork available.

>>20492457
in the us hold for more than a year then its 15% under 450k-lower than wages pay cuz theres no fica tax. also get an accountant duh
https://cryptotrader.tax/blog/the-traders-guide-to-cryptocurrency-taxes

>>20495908
Which is still far too much and an insult to the very people that made it. Canada has the worst tax rates in North America I cannot believe you can justify paying 12.5% tax on income that's already been taxed already and how entitled Trudeau is when you took 100% of the risk on that.

FYI 11 states in the USA have no cap gain tax on the state level and you can cash out 80k usd tax free at the federal level once married

>>20496070
AAVE.

>>20492671
Blood sweat and tears motherfucker

>>20492767
I went from nothing to almost a million just from browsing this board with little discernible skills bar intelligence. Get gud.

>>20493369
>find an institution willing to buy millions of dollars of bitcoin from an anonymous person on the internet and not report the transaction to the tax authorities
this board is 18+ get back to playing fortnite

>>20496079
Sure why not?

1) Send your linkies to Aave
2) Take out a loan for 50% of your stack to USDC
3) Open LLC in your state, setup bank account, setup LLC account on coinbase
4) Send your USDC to coinbase LLC account
5) Sell your USDC for USD on Coinbase
6) Cash out USD to your LLC Bank account
7) Pay no tax on account balance because loans are not taxable forms of income.

>>20496162
What happens to the LINK you’ve sent? What’s the interest rate like on the loan?

>>20492457
You are tracking every single trade for equivalent local currency value and wallet movement, right?

>>20496161
So this is the proper cash-out procedure:

1. Call Bank of America ahead of time with my account number ready and let them know I will be making huge deposits and that I have all tax forms ready and available

2. Liquidate assets on coinbase, then transfer over to my bank account

3. The coast should be clear right?

>>20492700
And if you do it in lumps you may well get accused of staging

>>20492929
Lolwut
That's quite depressing for leafs

>>20496207
Your Link stays in the contract until you pay the loan back.
Current rates between 1.5 - 3 % APR

>>20492974
Dude...
You may already be in trouble

Is there a limit to how much you can store in a bank account? If not, how much should you store?

>>20496246
>lumps you may well get accused of staging
???

So I have to cash out all at once? I was planning to cash out it increments because I want to make sure the fiat actually gets into my bank account before cashing out more.

>>20496233
Yeah that’s my understanding. One anon said he cashed out a large sum and when he went to the bank there was a taxman waiting for him there and he paid his taxes on the spot.

>>20496313
How so? I've only cashed out 3 times so far

>>20496233
See that's what I'm thinking. Say I make 10M from Link. I transfer 1-2M to usdc and then sit on it incase massive dump. Call accountant and tell him the situation. That I've been hodling this coin the past few years and now it's worth x much. He tells me the best course of action to cash out clean and legally, and then we're good. I will pay a lot of money in tax sure, but at least I will be good for the rest of my life.

>>20496311
But the idea is to use the loan as a tax avoidance mechanism. You are essentially selling your LINK by loaning it. So is the idea to just pay the interest rates (which are much lower than the tax rates) and eventually the loan term expires and they take your linkies?

>>20495497
Yes
And they'd be under no obligation to say anything to you
You'd be immediately flagged all your transactions would fail, and whatever other bank or otherwise accounts you have would also be immediately frozen

>>20496355
They always know, man
They always know

>>20496162
This.
But if you move money from the LLC account to a personal account, you have to report it as income, so your LLC account will be where you spend money from. I've been trying to redpill anons here on tax deference for weeks now, good to see other high IQ anons educating bizlets.

>>20496417
Am I doing anything wrong? I'm not trying to avoid taxes Mr. IRS pls don't scare me

>>20496042
this... im gonna ask around about this... cuz this sounds legit

>>20496378
You are not selling your Link, you are storing them in a SmartContract and taking a loan out against them. Essentially like taking out a mortgage on a home that you own outright. There is no expiration date on the Aave loan. They will only take your linkies if the price of link drops and your loan gets liquidated. The goal is to use the future gains of link to pay the initial loan back, then rinse and repeat

>>20492457
only if you actually cash out. the concept of defi is to recreate all if the traditional financial services predicated on fiat, in a trustless decentralized environment, using crypto as the replacement for fiat.

wait a few years, you'll likely be able to purchase your lambo (and maybe your groceries) with crypto.

UK? Easy brother. I did this in the 2017 bullring.

Sell your stinkies into usdc.
Send usdc to coinbase pro
Swap into GBP
Withdraw from cb pro to bank acc (£1 fee, email them to ask them to up your limit to like £200k a day)
Call your bank - tell them about upcoming large deposits, and what it is

Then, get an accountant. You need to file a self assessment and declare a CGT gain. It'll be 20% of your gain, and probably like 2-400£ in fees.

Don't wait till April (end of tax year to file). File and pay cgt straight away. You're free.

I cashed out £400k that way. I plan on cashing out my 100k stinkies that way too

>>20496490
>>20496162
have you guys got more reading material on
"tricks" like this? Surely someone's written a book or got a guide online, something

>>20492671
>you didn't earn that money by risking your stable capital by betting on a black swan event

fuck off here earned it every bit as much as any bank or brokerage did.
>he earned it moreso, really, because he wasn't charging his liquidity providers for the privilege of letting him speculate with their money.

>>20496490
I'd need to read more on this as someone from the UK though. The rules are probably different

>>20492671
You don’t know what I’ve been through.

>>20496490
Very true anon, the LLC account is where you would have to spend the money from, unless you want to be "legit" and pay ur self from the LLC and pay payroll/income taxes from that. I would recommend paying urself an income if you want to be "bankable" and get a real estate loan at some point after 2 years of consistent income

>>20496557
Sounds good man. They didn't ask to see a record of the transaction when you bought or anything like that? Just file the amount of money you wanna pay tax on, it obviously is the same amount that just got deposited into your bank account, so they'll see that. And then that's it? Withdraw and spend that cash on real estate asap

>>20496522
>They will only take your linkies if the price of link drops and your loan gets liquidated.
Isn’t that almost guaranteed to happen after a bullrun? How do you avoid getting liquidated? Try to time it?

>>20496576
Haven't seen anything yet, but im sure there is a write up on it out there. Defi is still pretty new and it will take the Tax man a few years to catch up on defi loans and how they are Taxed

>>20496672
They didn't ask for me. My accountant told me to have proof, but you don't have to submit it. Basically it looked like this -

Gain of £350,000 across tax year 17/18 - asset purchased for £50,000, disposed of for £400,000 - tax of £70,000 (minus cgt allowance of £12000) = tax due £58,000

I kept records of my purchase (bank txs, exchange etc) but didn't need them. They don't seem to care as long as you're the one telling them and paying them

>>20496672
oh and also you don't need to technically pay until the end of the tax year. You could say cash out in July, then file and pay at the end of march next year. Its risky somewhat as they may as why your account went from £32 to £1.8 milly in a week, and want to ask proof

>>20496744
That sounds just in line with my plan to cash out. Cheers mate.

>>20496674
Use a lower collateralization ratio on Aave, make sure your loan remains about 40-50% of your stacks dollar worth at all times. You may need to add Linkies to the contract if the price goes down a lot in order to avoid liquidation

>>20496790
>just in line with my plan to cash out
What is your plan?

>>20496661
Doesn’t this nullify the tax avoidance of the loan? To turn around and pay taxes on income you’ve paid yourself from the LLC?

>>20496788
Sucks though that by the time I make it the UK gov will already have put CGT up thanks to corona. Thanks Mr Ranjeet

>>20496672
Don't buy real estate you nutcase. Put it all into etfs and live off your boomer divvies

>>20496845
yeah maybe me too. If that happens, I'll cash out in another country

>>20496824
Payroll and Income taxes are usually lower that capital gains taxes. I would only pay myself through the LLC if I was trying to show proof of income for a real estate loan from a bank in the next years

being german is the absolute nuts in this case

>>20496792
>>20496894
Ok that makes sense. Thanks for the explanations anon. Any price predictions for Link eoy? You seem like you know your shit

>>20492457
>asking about LINK
>UK anon
>Simeon is head of digital assets research
It all makes sense now

>>20496162
Is there a way to work this so that you never actually sell your Linkies, you just keep cycling them for the loan?

>>20496918
You got it fren. Im a moonboy at heart so my 1st response is always 1k EOY. But i did have a dream of 111 a few nights ago and it was pretty vivid.

>>20497091
Yes, for that to happen though the price of link would have to keep rising exponentially after your initial loans are taken, and you will only be paying the interest charges to Aave

>>20496744
You paid 20% CGT? C'mon.

>>20496318
Enough to get good credit. That's all. Unless you're super rich interest is fuck all. Usually (Not now due to the pandemic) You could store a percentage of your yearly income in an index fund. I recommend you pick up "The intelligent investor" and some other books on investing and the like.

In 2017 (also UK) I cashed out 15k into amazon vouchers and never mentioned it (I was a student and unemployed then) nothing happened. I am intending to make at least 150k this year so thinking of going to Mexico to cash it out where I know some accountants and politicians

>>20492457
Scarcity mentality. Never gonna make it. It's all so simple, all you do is pay someone else to figure out the tax stuff for you.

>>20496042
If you really think in this day and age the average Joe can escape the taxman... You are a retard there is no other word

>>20496139
larping faggot neck yourself

>>20496576
glowing so bright Mr. Nigger

>>20496246
sorry this is retarded, if I want to cash out a lump of my investment and leave the rest because I believe the investment will return more, I can damn well do so.

>>20496403
>>20496026
I plan on paying my taxes you goobers I’m not trying to hide it I’m just curious on the procedure of doing it the right way. I have more than lunch money wrapped up in crypto unlike most wage cuck doomers ITT trying to scare people. I plan on getting an accountant and calling the bank/sitting down with a manager and saying “look here you can see where I bought Link at .2-$2.40 with money from when I was a wagie and here today you can see that it is at a much higher price. I’m informing you that large deposits will be coming in over the next year via coinbase and plan to pay my taxes please don’t freeze my account or I will find another bank to hold my large amounts of money” I swear retard doomers act like the government watches every single thing every person ever does 24/7 and will catch anything you do. People get away with wild shit all the time.

>>20498545
You are not escaping taxes, your are deferring them you brainlet. The goal is to be as tax efficient as possible, if you don't get that, then you are never going to make it.