/biz/ - Business & Finance

Vitalik is irrelevant

>>20372196
Hello newfag, vitamin knows that chainlink will be the next big thing, it even makes ETH 2.0 obsolete through arbitrum and chainlink oracles. He is also extremely autistic and doesnt like sirgay getting all the spotlight

Look at Sergey's chadly throne-like seating posture versus the effeminate leg crossing of the three others.
A complete mogging.

>>20372196
> Smart chains and d'orca whales fat oracle man!
> M-makes sense

>>20372196
post link

He cba arguing with a weird cunt like that when there are more interesting topics to discuss basically

>>20372222
sergey sits like that cuz hes fat

also checkd

>>20372222
>quad digits
>fuhG
>LINK thread
$1000 EOY CONFIRMED

>>20372231
Why does he stand like a faggot?

>>20372234
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdiJCvYfVHQ&t=2126s my b

he is jelly.

>>20372261
same reason he sits like a faggot

>>20372196
This talk was around the time of mixicles
Basically Sergey described mixicles to Vitalik and asks him if he thinks it’s a good idea
To which he says no, oracles aren’t needed

I know it sounds hard to believe that a bunch of misfits could be more intelligent than someone who looks a vitalik, but the guy has a childish view of the world. The guy got rich af at like 19.

It’s all about solving the problem in an efficient computer science fashion. That’s why he doesn’t understand the value of oracles. He just thinks it’s a programming problem.

do the skeleton and the belly speak to each other in russian? i wonder what they say.

>>20372278

>>20372278
> Oracles da?
> Oracles blyat!

>>20372196
This talk was around the time of mixicles
Basically Sergey described mixicles to Vitalik and asks him if he thinks it’s a good idea
To which he says no, oracles aren’t needed

I know it sounds hard to believe that a bunch of misfits could be more intelligent than someone who looks as autistic as Vitalik, but the guy has a childish view of the world. The guy got rich af at like 19.

It’s all about solving the problem in an efficient computer science fashion in his eyes. That’s why he doesn’t understand the value of oracles. He just thinks it’s a programming problem that can be solved in a more simple fashion.

>>20372196
No.
Sergey was asking about external data (banks etc.) but Vitalik is talking exclusively about cross-chain (merkle trees).

Vitalik has a habit of not really paying attention to what is actually being said or asked (like with the whole "yeah I did not say July thing), and it makes him look pretty dumb from time to time.

>>20372222
checked digits and id

>>20372261
He was mirroring the way that girl was standing so she would subconsciously think they were compatible. Total chad move. He probably banged her right after thst interview.

>>20372317
he ignores things he doesn't like.
he's a smart guy but a childish attitude like that can ruin a lot of things. Sometimes you have to confront reality.

>>20372278
sergey says idi nahui cyka blyad davai to him

>>20372317
>>20372313

Bag holders detected. In reality vitalik said that oracles are not needed because the only way to integrate external data is via cross chain communication via merkle tree bridges between data source and consuming contract.
Sergei being Sergei (he cannot even code, let alone understand algorithms and complex CS problems) tries to make it seem like he understood vitaliks reply and says “make sense”. This is comedy gold because what vitalik implies that the concept of chain link the project is fundamentally flawed, and Sergei being a retard basically agrees with him to save face.

>>20372432
Sergey literally talks about communicating with "non-blockchain systems" (33:52), but Vitalik still responds only in terms of cross-chain.

You and Vitalik both need to get your heads out of your asses.

>>20372357
chip off the old block

>>20372432
Agreeing with a rambling autist is the only way to stop the spergtrain.

>>20372432
>the only way to integrate external data is via cross chain communication

That's like saying "the only way to get inside a house is to go from the bathroom to the living room".

>>20372265
>makes sense
Yikes. The Dunning Kruger is strong in Sergey.

>>20372468
I barely know anything about this shit so this might come off retarded. But, if blockchain is supposedly the future of data then wouldn't all data already be running on a blockchain system making the non blockchain "real world data" to the blockchain plan irrelevant at least in the future.

>>20372432
this
Vitalik is a literal autistic genius who will go down in history and Sergei will end up with diabetes

>>20372432
>Sergei being a retard basically agrees with him to save face.

I think Sergey had tried multiple times that he was talking about off-chain systems, and Vitalik kept insisting on talking about cross-chain, so Sergey dropped the topic because it was getting awkward.

>>20372633
>then wouldn't all data already be running on a blockchain system
You still have to get the data on-chain, whether you do this in a "push" manner (i.e. constantly feeding all data on-chain) or a "pull" manner (i.e. putting data on-chain whenever specifically needed).

Plus, a lot of data for smart contracts (e.g. the price of gold reaching a certain level) will be of the "clause triggering" kind, meaning that the data will be consumed as soon as it comes out and is put on-chain as quickly as possible.

>>20372633
No, all data comes from the real world and without oracles there is no safe way to get them onchain

Yeah, I'm really starting to have my doubts about Vitalik.

>>20372676
this

Sergey emphasized that he was talking about external data at least three times in that one question alone, but Vitalik still wasn't following.

>>20372468
the ONLY trustless data comes cross chain, this is the whole crux of the oracle problem Chainlink is supposed to solve, but obviously can't. Imagine this. Someone discovers the concept of nuclear fission. There is an issue however, people don't know how to stabilize the reaction. Suddenly, some sketchy Russian scientist called Sergey Nabakov come up with the idea to burn nuclear waste in a big pile and use the fire to power a power plant, and calls this nuclear fission. This is what Chainlink is. It doesn't actually solve any of the real issues, even if it might have some short term uses. Even if it might work in some applications, it hasn't solved the oracle problem

>>20372633
Yes. And this destroys:
>>20372317

If an enterprise is running a permissioned chain, the interactions between the blockchain systems of that enterprise and the public chain are just cross-chain transactions. The enterprise does not need trustless oracles to provide it data in the same way that it doesn't have trustless APIs, and in most cases there isn't even a way to make that data trustless. The nodes in the private chain are also already trusted, so there is literally zero need for Chainlink in these use-cases.

If you have an enterprise blockchain system, you can just do what Vitalik proposed to link it to the public chain. No need for oracles. If the private chain needs data external to the chain, most of the time there is no additional value in using Chainlink over something like Oraclize, since the data usually has a single source anyway and the consumer node is trusted.

This, of course, won't stop Sergey from financing his dad's lambo with these useless arguments.

>>20372758
Putting external data on-chain is a hugely beneficial thing, and it's what Vitalik always wanted for ETH as well.
Without external data, blockchain smart contracts are token dispensers.

>>20372798
>If an enterprise is running a permissioned chain, the interactions between the blockchain systems of that enterprise and the public chain are just cross-chain transactions.

You still need to get the data onto that enterprise's permissioned chain first, before you can transmit it cross-chain, big boi.

>>20372214
Stink literally runs on erc 20 chain, I wish it didn’t but you can’t win always.

>>20372838
>Putting external data on-chain is a hugely beneficial thing
duh, so is nuclear fission. doesn't mean Sergey has a reactor in his basement

>>20372222

He can’t cross his legs with such a giant penis and ostrich egg sized testicles.

This is the image of an alpha.

>>20372468
>>20372615
There is no fallacy in what I’ve said - there is *a* blockchain that talks to *another* blockchain, former is external data to latter.

>>20372676
He dropped it because he is incapable of technical discussion. Go read vitalik.ca and you will understand why there is so little face-to-face interactions between vitalik and sergei.
In any event Vitalik is right, chain link purpose is fundamentally flawed, and right now it’s basically provable but with gimmicks

>>20372854
>erc 20 chain
it's called Ethereum lol. ERC-20 is the token protocol. always retards everywhere in Link threads

>>20372838
>You still need to get the data onto that enterprise's permissioned chain first, before you can transmit it cross-chain, big boi.
Yes, and you can use a centralized oracle for that because the nodes in the permissioned chain are trusted anyway. It's literally just connecting an API to the permissioned chain. You don't need Chainlink's (((decentralized oracles))) for that.

>>20372838
Are you a fucking idiot? I swear most chain link holders have at the very best a humanities degree but on average some fucking hillbilly trash plumbers waiting for moon.
I don’t even want to argue with you, just neck yourself you deluded idiot. For all I care chainstink can go to 1500 dollars due to greater fool, but even so eth will also pump so I’ll prosper anyways

>>20372196
>I'm prolly really late on this but wtf happened to Sergey here??
He got exposed as the scammer he is.

>>20372868
Putting external data on-chain is tricky, but you're spewing nonsense.
Oracles existed for a long time before Chainlink, it's just a matter of building the right oracle network from the ground up, since all the early ones were centralized while oracles have to be inherently decentralized.

>>20372877
>There is no fallacy in what I’ve said - there is *a* blockchain that talks to *another* blockchain, former is external data to latter.
Sergey was talking explicitly about interacting with non-blockchain systems.

So yes, Vitalik was being fallacious.

>>20372888
>Yes, and you can use a centralized oracle for that because the nodes in the permissioned chain are trusted anyway.
No, you still need decentralized oracles for the vastly improved uptime and security.
Which is why Chainlink is explicitly partnered with things like Hyperledger (THE permissioned blockchain).

>>20372918
Good post, anon.

>>20372219
>Link and arbitrum (an ethereum virtual machine) make the thing that makes arbitrum possible obsolete.
You are fucking retarded

>>20372222
Checked, based, and redpilled.

>>20373014
Ding Ding Ding

>>20373014
Actually you are the retard because you dont know what youre talking about.

>>20372999
>Oracles existed for a long time before Chainlink
now say the next part
>all the early ones were centralized while oracles have to be inherently decentralized.
Chainlink isn't decentralized, it isn't trustless. It is a network of trusted nodes giving validation over the data being passed. At best it's a "distributed oracle network"

>>20373014
Why dont you newfags shut your mouths abd let the grown-ups talk? He is right.

>>20373065
>Chainlink isn't decentralized
What makes you say that?
Chainlink launched with three independent nodes, it was decentralized from day one.

And those three nodes all called separate sources, so Chainlink was decentralized even at the source level just as a bonus.

>>20373065
Chainlink will be fully decentralized in the future. Kyc'ed nodes was the easiest way to bootstrap the system and get it running.

>>20373101
Right, exactly my point. Chainlink doesn't solve the oracle problem, it provides a temporary solution to short term problems while promising to solve the real problem in the future

>>20373141
Chainlink is currently being built you moron.

>>20372999
can u link where IBM officially stated that they were integrating with chainlink

It's true though.

Bridging private data streams to Blockchain doesn't need oracles, same as data providers. Merkel bridges are fine (and quicker/cheaper).

You have to trust those sources are true, with or without oracles. Feeding private data into an oracle doesn't make the data suddenly more trustworthy, in fact just adds another layer of risk. Even if you feed th same private data through multiple oracles it's the same data...

Chainlink use cases are much smaller, but still kind of cool (such as weather insurance for an African farm)

>>20373174
Yes, I agree it is incomplete

>>20373184
https://wiki.hyperledger.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=16324764

btw, IBM is involved in Hyperledger, but it is not Hyperledger.

>>20373186
>Bridging private data streams to Blockchain doesn't need oracles, same as data providers. Merkel bridges are fine (and quicker/cheaper).

You can't put external non-blockchain data on-chain using merkle bridges.
Merkle bridges are for cross-chain data transfer.

>>20373231
Congrats for complaining about being early lmao.

>>20373263
>early
nigger this is a top 10 coin and even you admit it doesn't have a working product. the price is severely inflated and no one itt is early

>>20373231
Ok retard.

>>20372586
this

>>20373289
>nigger this is a top 10 coin
A top 10 coin before it even leaves the Defi kiddie pool.

Chainlink's use case is extremely vast and it hasn't even started yet.

>and even you admit it doesn't have a working product
But it does have a working product.
Chainlink handles many hundreds of millions of USD every day within Defi.

>>20373186
>Feeding private data into an oracle doesn't make the data suddenly more trustworthy

That's like saying "building a bridge over a canyon doesn't make your car more reliable".

>>20373326
>Chainlink is still being built, we are early!
>Chainlink was finished years ago, it moves hundreds of millions a day!
>Doublethink? Never heard of it.

>>20373377
Ethereum already exists as a bridge lol that's the whole point Vitalik was making. Nothing Chainlink offers atm can't be implemented natively into ETH much more securely

>>20373384
Are you legally retarded?

>Tony is 10, he's still growing
>Tony can already walk and talk
>this is doublethink

This is you.

>>20373404
>Ethereum already exists as a bridge lol
Ethereum is not a bridge to external data.

>>20372267

>>20372293
Please someone make chad serg vs virgin vitalik

>>20373384
Here, cope on this chart you little fagget

>>20372219
None you chainlink “users” understands the first thing about how any of this works technically. It’s sort of a requirement for owning link. You have to be worse at development than Sergey, and that’s hard. The guy took three years to build a useless web scraper that still does nothing.

>>20373501
>Chainlink
>still does nothing

Chainlink handles hundreds of millions of USD in Defi alone.

>>20372999
>No, you still need decentralized oracles for the vastly improved uptime and security.
>Which is why Chainlink is explicitly partnered with things like Hyperledger (THE permissioned blockchain).

>Chainlink partnered with a Linux Foundation open source project
You know how I know you're a retard? Also Chainlink doesn't provide vastly improved "uptime and security", and there isn't even a way to decentralize most of the data that permissioned chains need. If you had taken one critical look at what you're so desperately shilling, you would realize this.

>>20372222
Chadgei

>>20373501
>still does nothing
https://market.link/search/nodes

>>20373539
>>Chainlink partnered with a Linux Foundation open source project
Yes.
https://wiki.hyperledger.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=16324764

>Also Chainlink doesn't provide vastly improved "uptime and security"
Of course it does.
Chainlink has been running with zero downtime at all ever since the first second of mainnet.
Centralized oracles like Oraclize had almost daily service interruptions.

>there isn't even a way to decentralize most of the data that permissioned chains need
Chainlink is a decentralized oracle network, not a decentralized data source network.

>>20373583
>Chainlink has been running with zero downtime at all ever since the first second of mainnet.
The oracles themselves, I mean.
There have been data source and contract failures, which have nothing to do with the oracle network.

>>20373440
Just use centralized Oracles. Look, this is what happens with Chainlink
centralized oracle -> intermediate decentralized oracle -> eth
this is how it could be done
centralized oracle -> eth
with Merkle chains there is simply no reason for this extra run around through Chainlink. In both cases, the data comes from a centralized source, so limiting the number of parties the data passes through to get to validation should be the goal, not making it as abstracted as possible.

>>20372196
Hi, Sergey here. Link will now be dumped by me

>>20373583
>Contributing to an open source development project
>Partnering
Ok then

>Chainlink has been running with zero downtime at all ever since the first second of mainnet.
False.

>Chainlink is a decentralized oracle network, not a decentralized data source network.
Yes, and there is zero value in (((decentralized oracles))) when the source is centralized.

>>20373625
>Just use centralized Oracles.
They have atrocious uptime and security.

Vitalik himself says oracles are meant to be inherently decentralized.

>>20372231
Quick pan back to images of him sitting like a chad.

>>20373653
>>Contributing to an open source development project
>>Partnering
lmao this cope.

Just because Hyperleger is "open source" doesn't mean it has no central governing board.
Hyperledger explicitly partnered with Chainlink.

>False.
cool lol

>Yes, and there is zero value in (((decentralized oracles))) when the source is centralized.
Except the vastly improved uptime and security, right?
There's a reason Vitalik himself says oracles are meant to be inherently decentralized.

>>20373625
>with Merkle chains there is simply no reason for this extra run around through Chainlink

Once again for the brain cells in the back: merkle bridges are for cross-chain communication.
You first have to place the data on-chain before you can move it cross-chain.

>>20373658
Centralized oracles haven't even begun. Oraclize is shit btw, it hasn't had a significant update since solidity 0.4.10. But when orgs finally want their data on chain, they will put their data on rheor own centralized chain. Centralized oracles are an inevitability, where decentralized oracles are still hypothetical. If Sergey actually does it one day, we will have another conversation. But as long as it's about proselytizing some tech that doesn't exist, forgive me if I don't partake.

>>20373757
>what is a private blockchain
welcome to the future anon, where every state, corporation, organization, protest movement, bank, airline, cargo ship, and terrorist cell has their own chain

>>20373804
>Centralized oracles haven't even begun.
lmao wat?

Centralized oracles have existed since long before Chainlink, and Oraclize was probably the biggest name in the game.
And guess what: Oraclize is now all about decentralizing oracles and is partnered with Chainlink.

>Centralized oracles are an inevitability
Even Vitalik says oracles are meant to be inherently decentralized.

>where decentralized oracles are still hypothetical
Decentralized oracles handle the vast majority of all Defi right now.

>>20373864
>>what is a private blockchain
Still something that requires an oracle (preferably decentralized oracles) to get external data on chain.
See Hyperledger.

You are just mind-blowingly ignorant.
Probably not thinking straight from seething so hard at Chainlink's success.

>>20373872
>Decentralized oracles handle the vast majority of all Defi right now
duh, did you expect people to wait a couple decades for blockchain to become the norm and centralized oracles to be everywhere? look, if Chainlink is your idea of what a decentralized oracle looks like, so be it. Vitalik certainly doesn't agree here so your appeal to authority doesn't really work. I am less optimistic than Vitalik about this tech developing, and every second Chainlink promises "full decentralization soon (tm)" and doesn't deliver a decentralized angel dies

>>20373993
no, you jist communicate cross chain. why would a centralized oracle need an oracle? are you high or exhibit?

>>20372999
I think you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't need *any* oracle, decentralized or not - look into uniswap for example of an on-chain data source.
>Sergey was talking explicitly about interacting with non-blockchain systems.
Stop LARPing as an intelligent guy, you're doing a really bad job at it. You niggers always pop up when LINK goes up, see you at 3 bucks soon, I hope you lose everything arrogant know-all gambler.

>>20373872
>Decentralized oracles handle the vast majority of all Defi right now.

That's a lie, and you're also an idiot. Oracle contracts used by AAVE are sourcing data from approved CL nodes (about 3 or 5 of them) owned by the same guys, if somebody tries to provide data for defi there's no way for him to get in, this system is the same as Provable (formerly Oraclize). Buy more chainlink now so you can kys as soon as possible pls.

>>20372586
I have many friends like this ...

>>20373698
>Just because Hyperleger is "open source" doesn't mean it has no central governing board.
Hyperledger explicitly partnered with Chainlink.
Can you point me to the partnership announcement? I'm just kidding, I know there isn't one, and this whole Chainlink partnering with organizations thing is just an attempt to pump the token because the actual product is useless.

>cool lol
Glad we could agree.

>Except the vastly improved uptime and security, right? There's a reason Vitalik himself says oracles are meant to be inherently decentralized.
See the thing is, there is no improved uptime or security. The uptime is determined by the data source, and at best Chainlink can match that (hint: they won't). Additionally Chainlink just produces another attack surface by enabling the nodes to collude or someone at Chainlink (the centralized company managing the feeds) to make a mistake, like they have countless of times. Chainlink is just another centralized middleman, but thanks for manifesting your Dunning Kruger, this was fun.

>>20373475

It's the two of them having a fight.

>>20374192
>Can you point me to the partnership announcement?
This is the third time itt I'm linking to this: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=16324764

>Glad we could agree.
Changed IDs, did we?
The oracle network had zero downtime since the first second of mainnet. Cope.

>See the thing is, there is no improved uptime or security.
Of course there is.
There's been zero oracle network downtime, ever.
And faulty oracle responses are cancelled out by the other non-faulty oracles.

Nice thread

Always fun to read cope & FUD by nolinkers

>>20374039
>did you expect people to wait a couple decades for blockchain to become the norm and centralized oracles to be everywhere?
What the fuck is this schizo cope?

Centralized oracles existed for many years before Chainlink, and they are being abandoned for decentralized oracles.

>>20374049
>no, you jist communicate cross chain.
That does not get external data on-chain lol.

>>20374126
>You don't need *any* oracle, decentralized or not - look into uniswap for example of an on-chain data source.
lmao, uniswap is 100% ETH-based you turbotard.
There's zero external data involved.

>>20374153
None of what you're saying changes anything about the fact that decentralized oracles power most of Defi right now.

>Oracle contracts used by AAVE are sourcing data from approved CL nodes
Non-approved nodes are also involved in the feeds used by Aave.

Happy to be contradicted on this, but the only clear use-case for a decentralized oracle network to me is fully decentralized blockchain projects.
I'm basically drawing a distinction between
A) muh normal business use-case but we throw a blockchain at it so we can tell investors "also, we're doing blockchain"
B) projects like RSV, where (in the advanced stage of development) you need a completely trustless way of supplying the blockchain with data, ideally from multiple sources
At this point a lot of people might stop reading thinking I'm RSV shilling - I'm not, this is a conclusion I came to independently here many moons ago:
>>/biz/thread/12832566
To be honest, I think this means that the number of "real" use-cases for Chainlink are quite limited. BUT that if any one of those takes off, there's massive potential upside for investors (both the project and for Chainlink).
In all candidness, I think this is true of crypto in general. e.g. Monero seems to me to have a way more compelling use-case than 99.999% of the market right now but there's no reason for it's valuation to rise or drop (any more than with e.g. Bitcoin) so who cares. It's like getting obsessed over a Python linter library or something.

>>20372278
SKELLY AND BELLY KEK

>>20374343
Whatever blockchain, be it permissioned or fully public, needs decentralized oracles to access external data.

They are the exact same as centralized oracles, but with all the benefits of redundancy, like vastly improved uptime and security if one oracle is compromised.

>>20372854
it was downgraded to erc10, which many people see as a huge blow, but on the other hand it doesn't depend on erc20 chain anymore, so perhaps more of a mixed blessing

>>20374380
>Whatever blockchain, be it permissioned or fully public, needs decentralized oracles to access external data.
>They are the exact same as centralized oracles, but with all the benefits of redundancy, like vastly improved uptime and security if one oracle is compromised.
This makes sense desu. Can't have reliable smart contracts if the single source of truth is down/hacked/whatever.
Not a problem for centralized financial instruments since you can just disable them when the data source fails or revert transactions.
I guess my larger argument is that permissioned blockchain projects usually don't need to be on blockchain. This doesn't refute your point, more criticism of the space in general.

>>20374471
I think you're conflating data sources with oracles.

>>20374570
It's a problem for both though. Ideally, for a trustless decentralized system, you'd want redundancy across both data sources and oracles wouldn't you? If the system is neither trustless nor decentralized, either one being compromised / having downtime creates issues.

>>20374596
>Ideally, for a trustless decentralized system, you'd want redundancy across both data sources and oracles wouldn't you?
Absolutely.
And much like cars changed our roads, mainstream smart contract adoption will likely change data sources.

But there will probably always be centralized sources, and they still benefit hugely from decentralized oracles.

>>20374620
yeah that makes sense. I'm more interested in the inherently decentralized use cases since they're more technically interesting :)

>>20374646
The basic use case for any oracle is smart contracts that can use external data.
Whether they're run on private chains or public chains.

>>20372838
Many types of data don’t need oracles, many do.

The most basic dataset decentralized oracles are being used for today is price data. But think of the future datasets that would need decentralized oracles like voting data. Datasets that are valueable to manipulate are a prime usecase for decentralized oracles

>>20373501
Exactly. Anybody with 'common sense' or 'developer experience' can stay poor, crypto has always been exclusively about who has the best memes. The transition previously has been BTC>ETH>NEO>various shitcoins>LINK. Meming retards have always been the ones who got the richest with each transition. This is your final warning to repent and hop in, normalfag.

>>20372721
>>20372758
>>20372798
>>20372877

Regardless, everybody agrees that in the short term it is still the best solution for getting API data on-chain, right?

>>20374834
Long-term too.

>>20372616
actually its strong in pedo cumbrain Vitalik

This thread in a nutshell

>>20372633
Not only blockchain is not the future of anything, even if it would, there would be no reason for it to use those tokens you're buying.

>>20372219
Lold at vitamin

>>20375108
Another faggot who has no idea about oracles being primarily for external data.