/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>20162104
here an example of how based colin actually is.
I have been thinking to get a bag of IOTA. it's also DAG tech but from what ive read/heard/researched they have had issue after issue and it still doesn't work. Also IOTA focusses on corporations while NANO seems to be more like the peoples coin

>>20162104
>NANO is a good asset
No it isn't. It is an interesting technical toy but has no business value whatsoever. Stablecoins on ETH L2 are superior to NANO. It has nothing to offer the market.

>>20162218
it does have things to offer but you are too blind too see cause you are a rent/fee seeking parasite. :D

>>20162258
>it does have things to offer but you are too blind too see cause you are a rent/fee seeking parasite. :D
What you call "rent seeking" others call "encouraging desirable behavior through economic incentives". I could explain why NANO won't succeed but it seems like your limited understanding of economics will prevent you from understanding it.

>>20162289
Please do explain tho, we are many reading this that want to get more knowledgable

>>20162317
NANO pitches itself as a fee-less and instant payment method. When BTC/ETH were struggling with transfers due to high speed this seemed like an interesting proposition but ETH L2/stablecoins changed the game and NANO holders did not notice.
From a merchant's perspective a stablecoin is preferable to a volatile crypto asset like NANO (or ETH, or BTC), so the whole idea of using volatile assets for payments when stablecoins exist is flawed.
Fee-less: say you are a merchant and your business relies on NANO. If NANO stops working, your business will have its revenue stream cut off and will eventually die.
People who run NANO nodes don't receive any income for their work, and they incur costs (servers, bandwidth, electricity). This means it is a labor of love performed by hobbyists. Compare that to ETH - ETH miners are getting paid for performing valuable work.
As a merchant this would scare the shit out of me. What if all of the NANO nodes went offline because the hobbyists moved onto something else? Because there is no financial incentive to run nodes this would be a very real risk (actually a certainty over a long enough timeframe).
At this point NANO holders usually say that an ecosystem will emerge allowing merchants to pay node operators to ensure the network always has some minimal level of capacity. As soon as this happens the system is no longer fee-less, giving up its only USP. Now it is a volatile currency with fees and instant settlement, competing against a stablecoin with fees and instant settlement. That's not a battle NANO will win.
NANO will never gain adoption as a B2C currency because superior options exist, and NANO provides no compelling reason to switch.

>>20162289
I could explain why nano has different incentives for node operators to run nodes but your nararow mindedness will prevent you from accepting there is more than enough incentive.

>>20162454
exchanges run nano nodes and they all have a very good incentive to run nano nodes. That's just the most obvious one. I don't want to waste time here so I'm not going to list the dozen other incentives to run a nano node.

>>20162258
>>20162492
>>20162519
That's three times you said you could prove me wrong but for some reason chose not to. Smart anons can read between the lines. They no you can't refute my points.
>I could explain why nano has different incentives for node operators to run nodes
Do those incentives involve paying fees? Then I'm right.

>>20162995
know* ffs

>>20162454
Damn those are some valid points. Gotta rethink my investment, but I'll always keep a small moonbag either way.
Thanks for writing it up.

>>20162995
no they don't involve paying fees. if you run a service that uses nano then you have an incentive to run a nano node, its that simple, also nano nodes are extremely lightweight unlike running a bitcoin node. Why do people run a Bitcoin validation node? they don't get paid. only miners get paid. still there are thousands and thousands of bitcoin validation nodes.

Binance runs a nano node.
All major nano wallets run a nano node.
Aslong as nano has marketvalue, anyone with a big stack has an incentive to run a node and be part of the community.
nanogambling sites run nodes.
big merchants accepting nano could run a node.


and a lot of enthousiassts run a node on their server that is already running because its relatively light weight.

plenty of reasons to run a nano node but you are too blind to see. theres tons of developers making cool nano integrated applications and all of them, have an incentive to run a nano node.


IOTA also does not have fees, do you think their partners do not have an incentive to run a node? they partner a lot of big companies and the tech will be used for machine automation. Do you think robot builders aren't going to run a node? lmao.

I was correct you are a narrow minded box thinking person and rent seeking/fee seeking parasite. I bet you hold a lot of staking/defi coins.

>>20163375
No problem. A good friend holds a bag so despite all the above I do actually hope it moons in the next bullrun.
>>20163463
>plenty of reasons to run a nano node but you are too blind to see.
No, just too intelligent to make the same critical thinking mistake you have made.
>big merchants accepting nano could run a node.
Would running that node be free? Of course not. So now NANO has a cost, just like every other crypto. Do you think a non-tech merchant is going to run their own node? Obviously this will be beyond the technical capability of many merchants, so those merchants will have third-party operators run the nodes on their behalf. These third-party operators will charge the merchant... wait for it... FEES.
This once again brings us back to the same point I made earlier:
>As soon as this happens the system is no longer fee-less, giving up its only USP. Now it is a volatile currency with fees and instant settlement, competing against a stablecoin with fees and instant settlement. That's not a battle NANO will win.
Don't you get it? Running a node has a cost. That cost might be tx fees, paying someone to run a node for you, or electricity/bandwidth for those running their own node.
NANO only works if you have a fifteen year old's understanding of economics.
>I bet you hold a lot of staking/defi coins.
Correct. I have made many investments in defi because it is the space in crypto with the most growth potential right now. And because of these investments I am significantly richer than someone who invested the same amount in useless 2017 technology like NANO.

>>20163463
>Aslong as nano has marketvalue, anyone with a big stack has an incentive to run a node and be part of the community.
Also, explain why this is true. Why does someone holding NANO have an incentive to run the node? Is it because it might help their investment gain value? What's your thinking here?

>>20163593
>Would running that node be free? Of course not.
I'm running my node on a raspberry pi 4.
Up front cost of ~£100. Basically free to actually run.

>>20163593
>No, just too intelligent to make the same critical thinking mistake you have made.
I disagree and the nano network is fine

> Would running that node be free? Of course not. So now NANO has a cost, just like every other crypto. Do you think a non-tech merchant is going to run their own node? Obviously this will be beyond the technical capability of many merchants, so those merchants will have third-party operators run the nodes on their behalf. These third-party operators will charge the merchant... wait for it... FEES.
Imagine being any decent sized company where a lot of people pay with nano and not running a nano node, as i said, all exchanges already have an incentive to run a nano node.

> Don't you get it? Running a node has a cost.
no shit sherlock, don't you get it theres plenty of incentive to run a node if you have anything successful that is build around nano.

> Correct. I have made many investments in defi because it is the space in crypto with the most growth potential right now. And because of these investments I am significantly richer than someone who invested the same amount in useless 2017 technology like NANO.

a rent seeking parasite, as I ithought.

you also ignored all my points about bitcoin validator nodes, theres no incentive to run a validator node, still countless of businesses and regular people run a validation node. You know, when I ordered gold delivered to my house, the company I bought from with bitcoin, they run a validator node.


controversial investments always moon hard. You might not see the value in nano but many people do. thats why it got over 100 million marketcap. and if you are an early whale that bought 2 mil nano at a few cents, you have a very very big incentive to run a nano node.

As long as nano has any marketcap and users at all, there will be incentives for certain actors to run a node.

>>20163669
Basically free is not the same as actually free.
If you were running a business accepting sales via NANO would you feel confident in putting all of your sales through your RPi or would you have some kind of backup node just in case that one crashed?
>>20163701
> all exchanges already have an incentive to run a nano node.
Right, and they have to pay for electricity to keep these things running, and staff to operate them. These things have costs, and those costs are passed onto customers.
The business is also a parasite by your definition, simply because they need to make money to exist.
>don't you get it theres plenty of incentive to run a node if you have anything successful that is build around nano.
I understand there is incentive to run a node. And I also understand that there is a cost to running a node.
>you also ignored all my points about bitcoin validator nodes, theres no incentive to run a validator node,
Didn't ignore it, just don't think it is relevant. I do not disagree that it makes sense to run a node if you need one. What I am struggling to make you understand is that running these nodes has a cost.
>and if you are an early whale that bought 2 mil nano at a few cents, you have a very very big incentive to run a nano node.
You state this is thought it were axiomatic. It's not. Imagine I'm a NANO whale with a $1MM stack. What is my incentive to run a node? Explain what value I will personally gain by running a node. Is it just "good for the community, good for price"?

This thread is being shutdown due to the breaking of the no gay reddit shit here rule.

>>20163812
>would you feel confident in putting all of your sales through your RPi
Why wouldn't I? It's just a linux computer like any other. I've been running servers on raspberry pis for years and never had an reliability issues.

>>20163812
>Basically free is not the same as actually free.
Also, I run a business, I can tell you that for me basically free might as well be actually free. Especially when compared to the size of other business expenses, the raspi pi is nothing lol, it doesnt even register.

And I am only a small business, I doubt bigger companies would care about the cost of running a node if they were saving even a few credit card processing fees.

>>20163840
>Why wouldn't I? It's just a linux computer like any other.
Because it is not highly-available, does not have redundant power, etc.
>I've been running servers on raspberry pis for years and never had an reliability issues.
Me too, for my NAS and home media etc. But I wouldn't dream of recommending to a customer that they use one in prod for their payment system. That would be negligent.

>>20163889
>Because it is not highly-available
Do you even know what this means?
>does not have redundant power,
Pretty easy and cheap to achieve this.

>But I wouldn't dream of recommending to a customer that they use one in prod for their payment system.
As with anything in software/IT - depends on the requirements

>>20163937
>Do you even know what this means?
Yes, why do you ask?

>>20163948
I dont understand how someone who claims to know a lot about high availability systems is unable to build one with a linux server or two.

its worthless.

Any network without fees loses a layer of security compared to PoW.

Why would the market irrationally pay for transactions on BTC/ETH if they could make transactions on a equivalently secure alternative like Nano? - it doesn't because it doesn't stack up.

There isn't some conspiracy against Nano, its moonbois have been shillings its free transactions and muh 7000 testnet tps for years.

>>20163889
> Because it is not highly-available, does not have redundant power, etc.

the whole point of a decentralized network is that when some nodes fail others pick up the work and everything is always 100pct uptime lmao.

>>20164035
He's just trying to sound smart

>>20164026
le I can only see incentive and value in a network that has fees meme.

rent seeking , pic related is for you
>>20162119

>>20164012
>I dont understand how someone who claims to know a lot about high availability systems is unable to build one with a linux server or two.
Why do you assume I can't? You said you have a single RPi which is obviously not HA. If you buy two of them of course you can set up HA. But now you are spending time configuring HA on RPis instead of building your business...
None of this detracts from my point. Most business owners are not as technical as you, and will not run their own nodes. If NANO were to see adoption a solution would need to be provided for those non-technical business owners, otherwise adoption would be limited to business owners with linux skills. That solution will inevitably involve fees in some form, at which point accepting NANO has a cost, just like accepting Dai via Coinbase Commerce.

>>20164064
yes it is clear now lmao.

>>20164064
Can't help it. It's a by-product of being smarter than you and OP.
>>20164085
What is clear is that you can't answer any of my questions.

>>20164080
you are dumb man. the entire network is HA because there are more than 2 nodes. LMAO
the whole network is redundant because thats how decentralized server networks work. lmao, just jeave the thread you are embarising yourseelf

>>20164080
>NANO has a cost, just like accepting Dai via Coinbase Commerce.
You got so caught up in the cost of running a raspi pi that you missed the point. Yes it's not free, but if you really want you can make it so cheap that it becomes much more advantageous than paying credit card fees or coinbase fees.
As a business owner, that's pretty attractive to me

>>20164129
don't bother he thinks hes smart lmao

>>20164102
>you are dumb man. the entire network is HA because there are more than 2 nodes. LMAO
Try to improve your reading comprehension. That HA comment was in relation to a single RPi.
>>and if you are an early whale that bought 2 mil nano at a few cents, you have a very very big incentive to run a nano node.
>You state this is thought it were axiomatic. It's not. Imagine I'm a NANO whale with a $1MM stack. What is my incentive to run a node? Explain what value I will personally gain by running a node. Is it just "good for the community, good for price"?
You are the one who is embarrassing yourself by exposing the intellectual shallowness of NANO holders. You can never back up any of your claims and run away when difficult questions are posed.
You are ignoring the question because the answer is "hope number go up", which is the only reason to hold NANO.

>>20164129
No, it's the other way around. OP claimed it is free. You acknowledge that there is a cost, but it is so cheap it will be a good deal. Surely you are smart enough to understand "no fees" and "really low fees" are not the same thing?

>>20164069
>>20164069
you are retarded and dont have a logical explanation.

Why would I use a piece of shit network that isnt secure?,

I gladly pay the transaction fee to have it secured on an immutable POW network. I also do not mine Bitcoin so I don't see the connection with rent seeking here.

Let that sink in, I'd rather pay to use Bitcoin then use a piece of shit network for free.

>>20164166
its free to transact on the network as a user. there, happy now lol
>>20164175
ok lol le man thinks im retarded lol.

>>20164166
>No, it's the other way around. OP claimed it is free.
Fair point.
But if another business owner wants to use nano but has no software/IT skills I'll happily let them use the network for free if it helps with adoption. It doesnt cost me anything extra. I'm sure there are enough people like me that will eventually make the network sufficiently decentralised.

>>20164175
>Let that sink in, I'd rather pay to use Bitcoin then use a piece of shit network for free.
let this sink in, I use nano to introduce everyone to crypto because its the easiest, fastest and there aren't any fees.

I use BCH, XMR, Hell I even sometimes use XLM between exchanges. But never BTC. because its SLOW and EXPENSIVE.

bye pleb.

>>20164229
>immutable POW network. I also do not mine Bitcoin so I don't see the connection with rent seeking here.

yea u do dat..

I laugh while the BTC on-chain volumes crushes any semblance of the non-existant volumes your 3rd worlder friends are putting into nano.

>>20164287
Nano is not very old. give it some time.

>>20164216
>But if another business owner wants to use nano but has no software/IT skills I'll happily let them use the network for free if it helps with adoption.
Now we're getting somewhere. So this other business is reliant upon your good nature, which seems like a precarious position to put themselves in, which is exactly the point I made earlier.
Forget payments for a moment and imagine we are talking about a web server. You could run your company's website on an RPi. You could also run another business owner's website because he doesn't know about linux.
Most people would consider running your company's website on an RPi to be a bit unprofessional. Running your company's website on someone else's RPi with no reliability guarantees in place would definitely fall into that category.
So if running a website in this way would be unprofessional, running a payments service even more so.
>>20164205
You still can't answer my questions. Your failure to respond substantively is actually demonstrating that only low-IQ bizlets hold NANO. Smart money would look at your responses and run a mile.
>happy now lol
My portfolio is up 500% from one year ago. A 100% NANO port would be down ~50% over the same time period. Yeah I'm very happy.

>>20164428
> You still can't answer my questions. Your failure to respond substantively is actually demonstrating that only low-IQ bizlets hold NANO. Smart money would look at your responses and run a mile.
I think the same about you.
we shall see what happens, will your staking / rent seeking / inflating assets do well when the hype is over? or will nano do well, no inflation here, completely distributed.

>>20164428
They aren't just relying on me though, there are hundreds, if not thousands of nodes on the network lol
Why do they care what hardware these nodes run on?

>>20162218
I like your rational criticism on nano. What's your take on iota? Not the current state (lets assume that they managed to become decentralized and release anworking mainnet with a few sufficient tps and confirmstion rstes to work for their primary usencases), but its design and feasibilty.

>>20165080
IOTA is allso feeless for end users so its useless in his opinion.

>>20165130
Yes and no. Unlike Nano, P2P or B2C was never iota's primary use case, but M2M communication /payments. With that, every company using iota for their operations has an incentice to run a node to secure and stabilize the network. This eliminates the chicken/egg problem which nano is facing.
As a positive side effect to having businesses with clear, business performance related incentives to guarantee a stable network, a p2p or b2c can leverage and grow upon that stable network.
In addition, with colored coins coming for iota in september (similar to erc20 tokens on eth), you can "re-colour" iota tokens into stable coins or other forms of value-pegged coins (like voucher coins or whatever), solving the volatility issue too. Reusable addresses (also coming in september) will get rid of the one time address nonsense they had so far. Benefit for that is that businesses and individuals can use their addresses like bank accounts.

Not intending to push this as an iota shill post, but looking for a discussion around feeless dlts as feasible payment solutions.

Isn't Colin a cuck tho

>>20165586
Humans are biological machines.

>>20165756
well hes not a rent seeking jew thats for sure

What the fuck, it's just a buck.