/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>19702574
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahah
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>19702662
Are you laughing at me because I am poor? I don't mind being poor. Also I have some savings.

Aiming to make about $1500/mo in profits

>>19702574
Why are your monthly bills so high?

>>19702690
$700 rent
$100 utilities
$250~ food, groceries
weed and beer the rest

>>19702684
He's laughing because daytrading is akin to gambling and if you do not know where to start then you will most likely not be succesful for a while. So you can get started but it's probably best to start putting your extra cash in normal investments instead of leveraged trades (which you'd have to do to achieve what you want) and learn by having a virtual portfolio (Etoro has one) or by using small amounts to learn and limit your losses. Leveraged trades are almost like gambling though..

>>19702707
You deserve to be poor for the rest of your life

>>19702707
>250 buckerinos in weed n booze
Never going to make it

>>19702731
y tho

>>19702684
no i'm laughing beacuse daytrading is incredibly complex. by the way you're talking you're guaranteed to lose money on it. g u a r a n t e e d.

>>19702779
hey good weed is expensive. actually it's weed and beer and anything else i want that isn't food weed or beer. i should have just said "misc".

>>19702684
also if you had a 50k starting fund, aiming for $1,200 / mo woudl be extremely generous. it'd be 20% / year. if you could double your money every month on a consistent bases, which you're seemingly aiming for, how do you think successful daytraders aren't quadrillionaires yet

>>19702829
pardon $1,200 / mo on 50k would be near 30% (impossible to pull off consistently even for the biggest brains)

>>19702574
>I want to day trade

No you don't. Trust me

>>19702792
>>19702829
>>19702859
thnx

>>19702888
Basically the goal here is to amass somewhere between $400k to $500k to put into a /smg/ style market fund that will be boring but predictable and pay out enough to cover $1300/mo + taxes forever. The challenge is that saving that much on $1700 month income will take 29 years if you do it through normal stock investing. That's not terrible as far as a retirement plan goes, but it doesn't get you anything for a long time. The good news is that even earning ~$300/mo more shaves almost 8 years off the timeline and some places ($12/hr in Arizona according to Google) have freakishly high minimum wages compared to their cost of living. So it' 100% achievable, and depending on your priorities you could start from 0 today and be 100% done in ~20 years. The bad news is that it's going to take, optimistically, 20 years unless you move into a role earning significantly more money or if you roll the dice on pennystocks, trading, or crypto. For most people though, you will underperform just investing. You might get lucky. Lots of people on the board do. I did not and most likely you will not.

>>19703068
HOLY FUCK 777 WITH CHAINLINK COLORS ID!! JUST BUY LINK OP YOU STUPID FUCK

>>19703068
thank you for the real response. with cost of living increase i am sure my rent will go up. it's only $700 because i live in a shithole. i plan to upgrade.

if i had, say, $30k to invest right now, how would that change your projections?

>>19702574
rope.jpg

>>19703114
you seem mad. doing okay, bro?

>>19702574
you're aware that you have less than 5% chance of making it? it can't be done, forget about it. I wouldn't recommend starting with less than 25k. And that means 25k after having at least 3 months of expense in cash in your bank account.
just forget it.

>>19703188
>if i had, say, $30k to invest right now, how would that change your projections?
put that into bitcoin and wait a few years, that's your best bet.

>>19703188
Disclaimer: I know this turned into a crypto board now, but I'm not a fan of crypto. I think it can be fun if you like trading, but there are so many P&D shitcoins that I sold my only position years ago and haven't touched it since. My advice is 100% boring person advice.

$30k now has a future value at reaching your goal of almost $100k after inflation-adjsuted compounding according to the engaging-data website. Using that to jump-start your journey shaves almost 10 more years off the process and puts you at ~19 years with no changes or ~15 years with some geographical arbitrage or job change to increase your salary to ~$2k/mo.
Basically, it's do-able. It's not fun a lot of the time, it's boring, and because of how a total market fund works there's a very low chance of a windfall that speeds up the process, but it's lower risk, it's achievable, and it's very similar to what I'm doing which is why I'm an advocate of it.

Note that the target age there is wrong; it's set up to look (roughly) at the compounding of a $30k investment, not your actual trajectory.

*ahem*
Buy as much SPY as you can, every day at close
Sell as much SPY as you can, every day at open
Do this every day. Set up an automatic fucking trade.

>>19703437
>>19703463
groovy man. i do appreciate this.

last question since you seem like an honest bloke, can you recommend a broker. i do in fact live in arizona if that matters at all.

>>19702574
you can study and practice all you want but the learning begins once you actually have skin in the game.

given that you don’t have $25,000 equity, you’re going to be limited to 4 day trades per calendar week, so understand that you’re going to be swing trading.

1.) the biggest thing you need to know is to never sell at a loss. even if you have to have $500 tied up for weeks, wait for that -25% to turn to +5% before you sell.


2.) it’s better to sit on cash waiting for a decent entry than to blindly rush into a “trade”.

3.) don’t bully yourself for selling at a profit. sure you made 10% when you could have made 20%, but the market also could have dipped. it’s all about consistency over time.

>>19703509
I suggest Fidelity, but Vanguard is the gold standard. The reason I suggest Fidelity is because they support more types of accounts. Vanguard is owned in a weird structure though that highly incentivizes the company to always act in the investors best interests while Fidelity only does it to be competitive with Vanguard. I happen to also be in Arizona over in Mesa (near Gilbert though) at the moment, so small world. I work a standard wage-slave job that gives me access to a 401(k), so the process that I use to save looks like this:

0. My paycheck goes into a debit account with Fidelity, so I can move the money around easier within the same institution. This and the HSA account are what made me centralize on Fidelity.
1. Contribute to 401(k) (at Fidelity) to get employer match. You can pull this money out early without penalty, but it requires "substantially similar" distributions forever from there on out, so ideally I'll ignore this until I'm retirement age.
2. Contribute to my HSA (at Fidelity) then *don't* use it to pay medical expenses, but save the receipts in a google drive. There's no time limit (right now) on reimbursement, so you can let your money grow and then pull the money out tax-free later. This is good for me because I unfortunately have quite a few medical expenses and this trick helps minimize the impact on my long-term strategy.
3. Contribute to a Roth IRA (at Fidelity) until I hit the annual limit. This compounds and comes out tax free, which is a nice perk.
4. Contribute to a standard taxable brokerage (at Fidelity) for anything extra that I have that I am putting towards this goal. All short-term savings stay in my debit account that also allows investments. For short-term though, I just keep it in the default allocation that pays some <<1% money market rate.

>>19703594
thanks, yeah i am willing to let a stock sit around until it earns me something. these are extraordinary times, that's why i'm thinking about putting money into the market.

>>19703684
i'll check out fidelity thanks man. i live in tucson.

>>19703594
>1.) the biggest thing you need to know is to never sell at a loss.
oh look, a retard giving advice.

>>19703842
it's basic logic?

>>19703068
Heard this a few times before. Only thing I don't get is why do you need money forever. If you instead planned to go broke at age 120 or something, wouldn't you need to accumulate far less money? You're not going to live forever, and once you're dead you don't need to still have those 500K invested.

>>19703861
>you bought ford at the top between 97 and 01
>it's ok anon, never sell at a loss, baghold for eternity

>>19703594
agreed with 2 and 3 but not 1. Use stoploss OP! Stoploss is not a tool to sell at a loss, it is a tool that can tell you "Hey your analysis was incorrect, how about you take a rest and reanalyze the chart?".

Reminder: Asset that is down 50% needs to increase 100% to breakeven.
>>19703861
"Never sell at a loss" only works for investing, not trading. In trading, you need to sell at small loss now rather than a big loss later.

>>19702707
pathetic
I'm living in a good place and regularly going out with friends for food or climbing and still only spend about 800 per month

if you hadn't boozed and got stoned for a year you could have invested 2400 in Link

>>19703901
If you're aiming for a retirement <30 years like normal, then yes, you can plan to pull out a larger percentage per year and save less. The issue is that as your time frame increases you need to be increasingly robust to market bullshit and unfortunately the amount you need to save to retire for ~40 years versus the amount you need to save for 400 years (assuming the world doesn't collapse before then) is very similar.

In a normal retirement, you can plan for 4-6% or more per year after market gains and capital depletion. In a "steady-state" retirement there are a few instances were 7%+ would have worked, but the general consensus is that somewhere between 3-4% is you maximum safe withdrawal rate. So to answer your question- kind-of.

>>19704019
$800/mo
that's very impressive, what is your rent and what state?

>>19704019
and yeah i know i make illogical choices. i have my reasons. im trying to turn this thing around though.

>>19704195
This whole thing starts with you giving up weed and booze. Trust me. You can't do that you can't trade. Rewind your reward system so that weed is back when money starts flowing in.

t smoked few kilos in my life.

>>19704641
i can do that. ill be honest i don't want to because i am going to get pissed off eventually. then i'll want to use again. obviously that money can be used to trade tho

>>19702574
>risk averse day-trading
kek

>>19702574
>Can it be done?
yes
>Can it be done in a risk-averse manner?
lol

all in link

>>19702574
recognize waves
buy low sell high
find stocks that go up and down often on 3-5/mo charts
go all in, so that small rises give bigger gains
set stop losses
use your limited trades if it means closing a position that might go down or if it reaches a sizeable gain in 1 day.. they give you 3, use them

all that being said I've yet to actually start following my own advice and keep being a spazztic retard with weak hands... soon I will change though.. I'm learning.. I'm similar and only need about $2k a month to survive if I am content with living how I live now (being a NEET) ... if you can get a job and put enough into your portfolio to the point its $5-10k eventually you can gain $500-1000 in ONE trade.. meaning if you set stop losses and make 2-3 successful trades a month you will be able to survive.. smaller share prices mean more shares mean more gain

>>19704982
can you do this with an app like Robinhood or should I stop being retarded?

also thank you /biz/ for not telling me to kill myself

>>19704796

I understand friend. Start by lowering your tolerance and teach your brain so at first u toke only once and that's before bedtime. You can argue it's even good for your learning. But when you see any sign of learning trading becoming a thing you can't life without you ditch the weed for a while to rewire your reward system so that trading is your weed. At that point you basicaly hacked a matrix and its matter of time when it will overtake your life and there won't be single minute in day without your thinking about stocks. At that point thinking about weed makes you sick because it reminds you about time when trading was not everything and your brain thinks that trading is the drug. Weed will make you feel sick on stomach.

Do that until you feel you made it and buy weed and it supports your trading. Have fun.

>>19702797
Weed and booze money is "fun money", which I won't tell you not to spend. But "fun money" is also used for gambling, which is what beginner daytrading basically is. Cut down on the weed/booze, and you can gamble with the money saved without worrying.

>>19705029

And remember that if your brain is used to want weed, you got HUGE advantage on hacking your reward system if you know what your doing. And you save your money. It's Magick don't ask.

>>19705006
I use RH.. I like it because of instant deposits it vibes with my millenial'ness .. people shittalk it a lot but I like the less cluttered UI.. and I think it's just competitors/shills... I looked at Webull and it's just too much to look at.. you can make it as complicated or not as you want.. lines go up and they go down.. RH website has RSI and MACD which I guess are kind of important and 50/100/200 day moving trends or whatever..

>>19705029
>>19705073

also take into account taxes OP, at least if you're day trading crypto
if you make more than 10k holding short term, taxes can be up to 20%
daytrading is more of a side gig then a full time thing, imo. just get a low stress job (cashier, stocking shelfs at the mall etc.) along with it and I think you could be alright. might even get lucky.

>>19702574
Study a lot first, buy books, or try to look up some actually good traders
https://themarketsniper.com/
this guy is really good, easy to learn method, you join a group of guys, but it is about 10k to join, but it is the real deal, check out his youtube first and just follow him for a while

>>19703215
So I'm not OP but I've toyed with the idea for years as well. A d now I'm unemployed. But I have about 250k to do this with. Expenses are about the same as OPs. How should I get started? Should I get started, or just keep blindly trying to get another job?

Daytrading is a full time job and you need to genuinely have rainman level autism to be successful even if you are willing to dedicate.

You are better off just swing trading as a side hustle

>>19705665
Pretty sure I don't have rainman level of autism and up 40% in the last month
Literally just take conservative gains and buy dips
followed autists on youtube for a week and got wrecked copy trading; probably would be up 60% if i didn't
i'd wager instincts and psychology play more of a role than autist strategies; market makers tend to do the reverse of what you think/quantify/calculate to happen

>>19705426
shut up with your shill website. imagine paying 10k to learn TA

>>19705704
I can attest to this. Also I'm still waiting for an opinion on my situation here. Is 250k enough to get started and stop looking for a real job or not?

>>19705704
>Pretty sure I don't have rainman level of autism and up 40% in the last month
>Literally just take conservative gains and buy dips
Any retard in "buy the dip" mode has been up lately. they will soon learn their lesson

>>19705725
playing with the houses money and have principle on standby
let it drop, i couldn't care less

>>19705720
250k is enough to get started yes but i would still look for a job. how much do you need to earn each month?

>>19705720
i started out with 15k. probably safe to to make some risky trades until july 31 when unemployment runs out. risky as in putting in a good percentage of your stack, take advantage of the volatility by waiting it to go up 2-3 percents, and then sell. rinse and repeat. sounds retarded, but that's how this market works. don't hold alts especially, the graphs look like waves. good luck.

>>19703684
Based helpful long-term realist anon.

>>19702707
>$700 rent
>$100 utilities
>$250~ food, groceries
>weed and beer the rest

Do you live alone?
I'd move to a 3rd world country, somewhere in SEA.
Here in 3rd-worldistan, I rent a 500 sq.ft 2bed1bath apartment for $100 a month.
Pretty good location, walking distance from a couple of malls and several supermarkets.

I pay about $100 utilities as well, but that's with 24 hour air-conditioning, a tankless water heater that I ALWAYS use, my computer that I haven't turned off in over 2 years, and 2 different fiber ISPs (so that I never have any downtime).

Also weed and hookers here are cheap af.
I wake-and-bake, and smoke all day. Can't remember the last time I was sober. I spend like $50 on weed (I can get like an oz. of mids, or like half a pound of regs, for like $30). Big-titted petite asians with 7-9 looks charge like $60-80 per 3 hours 2 pops. I can afford to go thrice a week, sometimes even daily.

All-you-can-eat buffets cost under $20 per head, with massive selections including salmon sashimi, Korean BBQ, Chinese and Thai food, roasted pork, beef, and lamb, all kinds of pasta, cakes, etc.

You can even hire a stay-in 24hr maid for like $80 a month. A lot of locals would gladly accept that salary.

I can literally live like a king for under $1000 a month. Or be "frugal" and spend half that.
I can earn that with several trades in a month (I have like 1.5 BTC on-exchange for daytrading, a fraction of my port), just simply buying huge red candles and selling the bounce. It happens often enough (maybe several times a month across all the coins on that exchange), just have to be on the lookout.

>>19705892
>Here in 3rd-worldistan, I rent a 500 sq.ft 2bed1bath apartment for $100 a month.
wow, where

>>19705736
I need to earn about $1500 every month.

I end up getting distracted looking for a job and start trying to make trades. And I've been successful so far but I've literally only traded during bull markets, since 2017. That's why I'm still looking for a job. It's frustrating to look for a career at the expense of making money now.

>>19705892
where

>>19702574
Oh no pls be a larp

>>19706005
>>19706108
southeast asia most likely

living in the third world is too nuts for me, i like america thnx. there's a reason shit is cheaper there.

>>19703188
Loans don’t count, don’t take a loan to gamble in the market

Day trading is literally gambling. You need to know exactly what you're doing and have an excellent discipline for risk management to ever succeed as a very humble day trader.