/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>19682806
and when you buy in
you tell the universe I like living as a slave, please give me more

>>19682806
>>19682829
stop being poor
stop being financially insecure
STOP BEING WEAK

>>19682845
good goyim. sign the papers and don’t listen to those idiot! being a homeowner is what life is all about goyim!

>>19682845
how do you do NPC
did you watch the game last night ?

>>19682806
>seething rentcuck cope

>>19682806
Why is there only one row of houses per street?

>>19682924
Never mind, the fence behind the houses looked like another street at first.

>>19682921
>calls himself a home-owner
>doesn’t technically own his home

seething mortie

>>19682806
Mortgage in French translate to “death pledge”.

Comedy gold

Is everyone here who is anti mortgage leeching off their parents for housing? Surely no one could unironically think ranting is a better financial decision

>>19683083
There is an actual reason to be anti-mortgage but I don’t care enough to write it out.

Essentially, if most people don’t want to commit to living in a shithole suburb, it makes no sense to buy a home that will be sold in a few years. Especially when new homeowners get great benefits buying their first home. You don’t want to burn it on something temporary.

Repairs and maintenance and so many other taxes/fees kill you too.

>>19682987
>mortgage payments are incremental purchases of house
>rent payments are tributes to a landlord and purchase nothing
>rentcuck hemorrhages money forever
keep seething

>>19682806
looks comfy af

>>19683083
this is the rational take
leech off your parents until you can buy a house wholesale
renting and mortgage are two sides of the same coin, and it's no surprise most of these topics are started by either renters or mortgagers - fundamentally normies and cucks in their heart

>>19682806
>30 year mortgage
15 year mortgage. Only idiots go for 30.

>>19683304
No, idiots go for 15.
160IQs go for 30 years and pay it off in 15

>>19683304
Get a 30 year and pay it off in 10. A little more interest, but gives you flexibility for hard financial times.

>>19683268
>I own my house now
>I still have to pay tribute every year for Israel and niggers

>>19683269
>t. never lived in one of these closely packed carboardboxes
You have to hope that you dont have or get loud neighbors, shitskins, rapists, etc and if you do you cant even relax in your backyard or even leave a window open because youll all hear each other breath. These homes are nothing more than upscale projects.

>>19682806
Why do people want to live so closely to strangers?

ITT: 19 year olds who still hate their parents

hey retards! have yyou ever lived somewhere and then you get paid when you move? no? let me tell you, it's pretty cool. all you need to do is have a big boy job and big boy bank account and you can invest money into yourself instead of giving johnny schmol your money. so, work extra hard when you punch into quiznos and some day yuo may have the 5% necessary to buy a $100k home! i know this is confusing. maybe fortnight dance a little bit so you can feel better! /biz is a safe space! tah tah retareds!

>>19682806
I'd glad I inherited a house.

>>19683656
>just sell to another wagie in 30 years and buy a slightly bigger box

>>19683707
me: invest money that i get back for an interst rate lower than my investments make

you: hi jonny scheklestien, plz take my trump bucks

>>19682806
This looks like a fucking shithole. Google tells me it's in Ontario. Why do leafcucks live like this when they're one of the most sparsely populated countries on the planet?

>>19683302
That's not what wholesale means. And you still don't need to buy a house in cash if you are investing that money and renting instead. You could get a better return with the latter if you are savvy.

>>19682987
I own my house outright.

>>19682806
ITT SEETHING RENT KEKS


I love it, rent cuck Friday

but i already paid of my mortgage at age 30

>>19682806
My friend bought a cheap house in a run-down neighborhood with the believe that it was going to be gentrified. That was ten years ago, and that neighborhood is still a ghetto shithole, lel.

>>19683302
>buy a house wholesale

Houses don’t come wholesale, retard. Lol, do you think they have a warehouse with houses on shelves? Building a home
might be what you mean. Home building is a huge risk that you could lose your shirt on. You have to stay on top of your contractor CONSTANTLY or otherwise your workers, some of whom might skip off to Mexico or decide they don’t need to work anymore because they have $3000 in their account they want to spend on hookers and blow.

If, by some miracle, a bank gives you a home building loan (unlikely unless you’re a contractor) You’ll have to meet deadlines that are pretty outrageous.

You can always go prefab, but then when someone’s wife hears “prefab” while looking at the MLS listing they’ll immediately think “junk” and dismiss it entirely. Buying existing homes is a good way to go for first time buyers.

>>19683834
I think the anon you're replying to meant, wait until you have money to buy an existing house in full without having to get a mortgage/loan.

>>19683755
In the city I live:

Relatively modern apartment, 800 sq ft, 1 bed, 1 bath, 1 parking space = 1470 / month

Older house but in generally good shape, lots of charm, literally less than a mile away $235k - 3 bed, 1 bath, 1100 sq ft, fenced in backyard, 1.5 car garage + slab for parking. $1475/month mortgage payment (will be lower once I refinance)

For $5 more a month I'm living in the same neighborhood, I'm getting more space, and because this is one of the hottest neighborhoods to live in I'll likely be able to sell the house in a few years for much more than it was purchased for

so even i know that a house is a retarded liability with a ton of upkeep cost, but what about an appartement in a big city? also more JUSTED than renting?

>>19683922
Of course it usually makes financial sense to buy instead of rent. My issue is that I don't really know what I'll be doing in 10-15 years. I don't want to be "stuck"

You guys know you can sell houses too. Just put on your big boy pants.

It must be embarrassing to be a rentcuc. Imagine not evening be able to to prequalify for a mortgage.

>>19682845
nothing screams STRENGTH like semi-permanent debt slavery

>>19683987
General guidance is buy for 5 years

But even selling before that isn't a total lost cause, especially if the property value goes up significantly during the time you live there.

You should buy a house as a place to live in.
Your investment in the house should be money, time, and sweat to make it the best home for you and your family.
You really should only sell if you need to.

Rent places you don't expect to live in forever or you don't care about customizing.

>>19684024
imagine not being able to get an ELOC

>>19683834
retard he meant buying a home with cash

>>19684127
I'm seriously considering it. Maybe in 2021 if the economy hits the shitter and foreclosed houses become more available.

>>19683585
given a choice between paying property tax on a home you own, versus helping pay for Mortimer's property taxes on the house he owns, you'd rather do the latter. Brilliant. You sure showed those government bastards!

>>19683891
How long would it take someone to save $100k? And you would spend your whole nest egg on a potentially depreciating asset? Not to mention a $100k house is probably going to be a piece of shit, located in bumfuck nowhere or a combination of the two.

Seriously guys, I’ve looked into this. I’ve shopped for homes and talked to a bunch of realtors and lenders and contractors etc etc. unless you are independently wealthy and have lots of spare time building a home is a no go. Unless you have lots of liquidity buying a home with cash is a no go.

>>19684174
Do you have cash to buy a house? And the term isn’t wholesale. Am I supposed to correctly read into everything someone incorrectly states? Retard.

>>19683302
Most normies I know are living with their parents well into their 20s and mock anyone who had any adult responsibilities such as a home.

>>19684638
>Heh, why would I get a home, breh?
>why would I start a family or get a full time job?
>it’s all a trap bro
>I’m good getting fat in my mid twenties and eating the food my mom buys at the grocery store
>I’m gonna make a million on shitcoins and retire when I’m 26, what could go wrong

The wall isn’t only for women

>>19682806
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same..

>>19682806
It's crazy to think that 2 of those houses on that picture are grow houses for weed

I think it's crazy that the bank gets the interest while you're on the hook to pay the property tax.

You're living in the home as a result of the loan. You're not "buying" the home. It's important to save and stay disciplined if you go this route, though. You need to have cash, stocks, assets, etc., if you're not going to have equity in a home.

>>19683922
You are confusing again.

>>19682806
More like 25-40 years in my country, Denmark. Our currency is practically backed by real estate.

>>19682845
>>19682921
Listen to these great men, OP. They have their lives sorted out and they're living their lives to the fullest while you're still a virgin, living in your mom's basement!

>>19685612
How did it get so bad? Not just Denmark, but I see wide bubbles of the economy depend on the housing market.

>>19682806
>>19682845
I think buying a house is a product of previous generations, where you could expect to work at the same job for 50 years or whatever and just live your life in the same place forever.
Nowadays that's not really feasible, I think the demographics of any given location changes so rapidly these days that you're going to want to move around a lot more, and being chained down to your house for 30+ years just isn't going to cut it.
I don't know, maybe home ownership and apartment leases will become a thing of the past and in the future everyone will just live in fully-furnished airbnbs. You'll still have people who own houses, but they'll just be looked at as people who are trying to impress others with this antiquated ideal of what the future was supposed to look like.

>>19682829
Renting is still slavery. The reality is no matter what you do, so long as you are part of the system you are nothing but an economical unit that only exists to provide value for your Jewish masters. This is our modern world.

Just look at ops pic >>19682806. Those homes literally look like crop rows. We are the crop, the Jew is the harvester. Harvesting our soul energy

Buy a house
Rent it out
Make money

>>19682806
If you make it from crypto or major stocks/asset gains you can just straight up buy the house.

>>19683304
>>19683516
>>19683573
At a 2-3% fixed rate, it makes very little sense to pay it off at all. Instead of paying it off just invest the money into the stock market or save up for another down payment.

>>19682806
>with no idea what will happen in the next 20 years bro

Does anyone, a single person here, actually think the dollar will win out in 30 years? Really? With mortgage rates sub 3% houses are essentially free right now. Now when interest rates go back up to 6%+ then you can talk about being unsure. Even then, the government literally rigs the system for fiat to continually inflate.

>>19682987
With a mortgage you technically own the house, but there is an associated loan collatalized by the house.

>>19682806
Back in the 50’s and 60’s you could pay off your entire mortgage within 5 years at below the average wage. Nowadays it will still take you 30 years to pay off a mortgage on an average wage.

If mortgages didn't exist everyone could afford a house. Banks are just middle-men trying to wedge themselves between every transaction in order to justify their existence.

I work at a bank in the credit dept. Speaking from experiance in the actual field. Unless you get a small mortgage that you qualified for prime interest rate, its completely retarded.

People dont realize the total cost of borrowing all said and done with interest rates is way more than what you would pay for rent in a life time. Plus theres maintenance, insurance, property tax all things you dont pay while renting.

the trick is to buy in a shit small town where houses are cheaper than cars.

>>19687584
>in the future everyone will just live in fully-furnished airbnbs
No, in the future most will live in communal bunk rooms, very much like the Soviet 'obshezhitiye' ('shared living') and these buildings will become de-facto urban favelas. Outside the cities, real favelas will spring up as crude neo-Hoovervilles become more entrenched.
This is the future of your country.

>>19688997

As long as you pay your mortgage, you own the house. And there are cases where you need the bank's permission to do things like if you want to change the property lines or do major renovations. Because the house is collateral for the loan, so they don't want you to fuck up the value. But compare that to renting where you can't nail a painting on your wall without your landlord's permission who can also increase rent or kick you out any time he wants with little notice.

>>19689180

Since houses don't produce anything, I don't think mortgages should exist, but that's the way it is. In the US all mortgages are given by a government owned, money loosing corporation, so home ownership is pretty much subsidized by the government. Might as well take advantage of it.

>>19689234
>People dont realize the total cost of borrowing all said and done with interest rates is way more than what you would pay for rent in a life time. Plus theres maintenance, insurance, property tax all things you dont pay while renting.

When you rent you pay all of that. When you rent you pay your landlord's mortgage, your landlord's tax bill (which is often higher for non-owner occupied properties), maintenance, etc. its just priced into your rent with some profit margin on top for your landlord.

>>19688961
>inflation
Too bad wages have been basically stagnant, not even keeping up with inflation lately.

>>19689283

Doesn't really matter. The biggest benefit of a mortgage is that its a fixed payment. While rent increases on average about 10%/year. So after 10 years a mortgage payment will be well below half of what comparable rent would be. And after 15-20 years its pretty much a trivial payment.

People get so scared of a mortgage, because it seems like such a huge dollar amount, but its no worse than renting. You will always need a place to live. So if you don't own a house you essentially are in debt of the amount of rent you'll need to pay for your whole life. Buying house with a mortgage turns life life long, ever increasing debt into a fixed amount. Eventually it just gets inflated away.

>>19689269
Either way you have to pay to live. In the long term youre paying hundreds of thousands more for a MTG due to all the things that come with it. You dont pay intrest on a loan when renting, there is no cost of borrowing when renting.

>>19689403
>You dont pay intrest on a loan when renting

But you do, you pay your landlords interest, its priced into rent. Rent also steadily increases while a mortgage is fixed.

>Mort-gage (death pledge)
>sign in cursive
>your human need as collateral

Honestly, the whole mortgage thing looks like a cult rite from where i'm standing. Many here too think of it as a guaranteed return, brainwashed faggots, the return on the 'investment' is compensation for the risk of a illiquid, and immovable asset. People literally sign a death pledge in cursive on a promise to sacrifice a human need shelter as penance for non payment. Cult like behaviour, people don't notice because its so ubiquitous, all in the rites and ritituals of the babylonian fiat frenzy

Fucking rentcucks bro. Literally the financial version on being BLACKED. How does it it feel to pay someone else's mortgage and property taxes each fucking month.

>HURR DURR MUH UNEXPECTED REPAIRS HURRR

It's really not that hard to keep 10k in the bank for emergency repairs. After 5 years you can just use equity anyways. Fucking idiots on this board will literally take financial advice from a Somali bean stack image board but reject a proven multigenerational method of wealth accumulation.

>>19689403
>Either way you have to pay to live
Yes, but there is an end and a chance for profit with a house. You get into a fixed rate mortgage, you can refinance, contribute early payments, etc. Only a retard gets into a 30-year loan and it takes 30 years to actually pay it off. A shitload of 30-year loans take less than 30 years to pay.

>You dont pay intrest on a loan when renting, there is no cost of borrowing when renting.
You do, but it's just called 'The Rent'. it's not itemized or split up. You're paying the owner's taxes, mortgages, insurance, everything. And on top of it you're paying for a little bit off the top for the landlord's profit. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you there aren't bullshit costs and fees and taxes that come with buying a house that make you spend more than what it cost to buy it, but after so many years of paying you at least get something. Paying rent for 30 years just leaves you with 30 years of 100% sunken costs.

>>19689477
Not all mortgages are fixed some are open. Most of the time a fixed closed mortgage means you disnt qualify for prime, so were talking intrest rates locked in at like 4-6% which is rediculous amounts of money. If you can say get approved for a mortgage with prime interest rate of like 2.5% on a low amount it may be worth it, but this is saved for the super rich people who can qualify conventionally with a large downpayment of like 25%

Even accounting for increases in rent it still is nothing compared to paying lets say a 350,000$ mtg at 4% for 25 to 30 years. Do the calculation its rediculous.

>>19689576

Look, when you rent, you are borrowing a house. Your landlord had to put money into that house, then let you use it. There is an opportunity cost to that money, and its probably closer to or above that 4-6%, than the 30 year fixed rate which is ridiculously low right now <3%. Your landlord just bakes that opportunity cost into your rent with a nice profit margin on top. So yeah, you are paying interest just the same when you rent, likely more. And taxes are usually higher on rentals too, also baked into rent.

The only way not to pay interest is to buy in cash. If you don't own a house, and unless you plan to be homeless, then you do have debt when you rent. Its your rent payments for not just 30 years but the rest of your life. A mortgage just converts that into a fixed amount and fixed interest rate. If you want to completely avoid paying interest or having debt then you need to either live in your car or buy in cash.

>>19683585
Don't buy houses in areas with extreme property taxes.

>>19689669
You dont just get whatever intrest rate you want and you dont get to decide if its a fixed rate with no prepayment penalties, these are all things your bank decides. You dont even get the posted rates your bank offers, just because they post a rate of 2% doesnt mean you get, like I said only the rich people with 800 credit score and 25% down get those mtg and choose the terms they want.

Most of the time the bank qualifies you for what they want based on what risk they deem you. All I'm saying is do the math no matter what way you swing it 30 years of rent is always cheaper by long shit then 30 years of MTG. Not just thousands, By hundreds of thousands of dollars, Hundreds of thousands that you could have invested for postive return. Instead you paid triple the price of your MTG on just the cost of borrowing and this isnt including all other costs associated. This is just the loan.

Just do the math.

>>19688859
You seem to forget the mortgage, the place to live, the upkeep costs, the intrest and dealing with shitty tenants who don't pay

>>19682845
Only reason you have anything is because of nepotism, dumb retard, kys and do us all a favor.

>>19689832
>All I'm saying is do the math no matter what way you swing it 30 years of rent is always cheaper by long shit then 30 years of MTG
What do you have at the end of 30 years of loaning? A property.

What do you have at the 'end' of 30 years of renting? Nothing. And odds are, your rent is going up each year incrementally. At the end of 30 years I have a $400k house that I bought for $275k. At the end of 30 years of renting I have absolutely nothing but sunken costs and increasing rent.

>>19689832

What is your point about doing the math to figure out how much interest cost? Your landlord is paying the exact same cost of interest when he finances the property. And hes passing that cost to you in rent. If he doesn't have a mortgage then he has a huge opportunity cost tying up all that cash in the property. That cost is baked into rent. So it doesn't matter what the math works out to, if you rent you are paying it all the same.

Do the math on how much rent you'll pay for the rest of your life, and take into account average 10% increases. That debt will exponentially increase beyond a fixed mortgage payment.

Its also not hard to get a 740 credit rating, which gives you a no point mortgage (best interest rate), and you don't have to be rich for 20% down so you don't need PMI. Having an 800 and 25% down doesn't make your rate any better.

>>19689898
sounds like you're a born loser anon. literally birthed by trash.

Do you have a house worth $400K that you can sell easily? I dunno I have a feeling you can't predict that, you might have a house worth less, happens to people all the time. And if you only paid 275K for the house in total it must be a shit shack of a place because with taking into account interest rates you must have bought a house that was originally worth 150K, which is probably crap and isn't worth 400K now.

I don't understand whats so hard to understand, not paying hundreds of thousands of dollars means you saved hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not spending money means you made more money.

>>19690053

But when you buy a house you don't "spend" hundreds of thousands. Usually you put 20% down, that might be $50k or so depending where you live. And its not "spending" like spending $50k on a car, its like investing $50k in stocks. Except you get 5x leverage so you'll make better returns than stocks in the long run.

>>19690141
lol

You sound jealous.

Yes, you are right

and it's also part of becoming an adult

>>19689381
>rent increases on average about 10%/year
Ah, yes, just like "stonks always go up" and "housing always increases in value"

Canadian here. Canada's GDP is $1.7 trillion USD and has $2 trillion USD in mortgage debt. How fucked is my coutnry?

>>19690343
*country

>>19690322

Its a literal government objective to increase prices 2% a year, but the measure inflation wrong, so inflation is really closer to 10%.

Do you actually think the dollar will be worth more in 30 years?

>>19683686
>Surfing
kino af

>>19683745
terrible govt policy leading to overinflated housing market

>>19684858
The wall exists for women and men who might as well be women.

Either design and manifest a life worth living, or be the cog in someone else's machine.

>>19682806
>with no idea what will happen in the next 20 years bro


Waaah, why can’t mommy take care of me and make it all right?

>>19684098
"semi-permanent"

Finish your philosophy degree and then come back

>>19690386
>Do you actually think the dollar will be worth more in 30 years?
No, but housing will also crash several times. Why is it that we discuss "historic return" on the stock market yet neglect to mention the same concept with housing? The current bubble economy is an outlier even in the near-term history of the US and the ride has to end sometime.
Consider how Japan values houses: they correctly *depreciate* in value. Yes, they do not import countless immigrants to prop up spending but even the US strategy WILL fail sooner than later. You cannot have primarily a service economy that's flooded with immigrants, yet has stagnant wages and exorbitant housing costs. Something has to give, and the only question is what, so let's look at that:
Will the US expel immigrants and revive protectionism along with stable jobs? No.
Can the housing bubble be popped? Not safely. Either foreigners rush in to buy and reinflate it or we collapse the entire economy along with boomer retirements.
Will wealth inequality and the deleterious effects of a self-cannibalizing economy be reversed? Not without revolution.
What happens if we continue Business As Usual? We turn into Brazil.
All these arguments are economic and ignore material reality: as I gaze at the real world around me, I do not like what I see and am hesitant to buy a house in such a risky environment, especially given the fact that shelter-as-investment is an incredibly rickety novel concept that's dragging the economy down with it.

>>19682806

Everyone in my area with a paid off detached house is paying like $400-500 a month for property tax and maintenance while rent cucks are giving up $2k for a 1br cuckbox

>>19689526
Rentcucks have "unexpected repairs" because their landlords buy the cheapest shit possible like $200 oven and stove, plastic pipes, 0.5 gallon a flush high efficiency toilets. That's why everything breaks all the time.

>>19690721

If you have such a pessimistic view of the future then renting should terrify you. With a mortgage, its really nice to know your cost is fixed. Not like renting where landlords can charge 25%, 50%, 100% more anytime they want and your only recourse is to try to find a cheaper place.

The fact is the people who run the world own assets like real estate. You are betting that some deterioration in the economy will result in long term asset crash rather than inflation wiping debt away. It would be the complete opposite. Look at the recession that just started. 40 million unemployed. Yet asset prices are at all time highs. Who gets bailed out every thing single time in every recession? Its not renters and people short assets or people who hold cash.

Any housing crash would be short term, at least in areas where land is actually scarce. Yeah you might be able to time the market by renting until housing crashes, but that is no different than shorting stocks, only works if you actually time it right. People have been calling for a housing crash for a decade now. All that time these people paying rent on houses that are going up in value.

Another strategy is just buying a really cheap house, then buying a more expensive house when housing crashes. Then at least you're not having to pay to borrow a house while the government prints trillions of dollars to subsidize them.

My sister just signed a 25 yr lease on a $650k condo in downtown Toronto...

I tried to warn her bros. How fucked is she?

>>19691092
Oooof
https://www.canadianmortgagetrends.com/2020/05/cmhcs-siddall-delivers-gloomy-outlook-up-to-18-drop-in-home-prices-20-arrears-rate/

>>19691092
Be a good brother and buy her kneepads.

>>19691279
She literally makes money by selling used underwear and shit. Its degen as fuck but apparently it pays well enough to make a $80k down payment in the faggiest neighborhood in Canada.

I pray for her soul.

>>19691342
how the fuck did she get a mortgage over $500K from a bank working as a used underwear salesman?

>>19691380
I have no idea. Once she told me how she was making money, I did not want details.

Fleecing simps is quite a lucrative industry it would seem

>getting margin called by the bank

>implying buying isnt renting money from the bank

>buying is renting