/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>19324464
trump is pandering to his white nigger voting base. manufacturing won't come back because it would cost too much. industrial machinery is insanely expensive, and the cost of american labor is so great that the products would double or triple in price.

>>19324464

>>19324671
>yeah you're right, innovation is hard and it's more fair to just let those poor third worlders make some money too :)

Get fucked, manufacturing jobs are coming back whether you like it or not. Will things cost more? Sure, at first. But AI/automation will allow them to eventually be produced cheaper in the US than abroad. And for every job brought back stateside 10-100 chinese slaves are replaced with an American middle class person supporting American middle class a family.

>>19324774
remind me again how automating jobs benefits the american middle class, even ignoring that the products will likely cost more due to higher energy/raw materials costs in the USA versus some chink shithole country.
>B-B-BUT THEY'LL NEED ELECTRICIANS AND MECHANICS!!!!
a handful of mechanics and electricians can keep an entire production line running. i know because i wasted 3 years of my life working on a medium density fiberboard production line, the largest one in fucking north america. the company spent millions of dollars on new machinery to automate away jobs. in the 3 years i worked there they axed a couple dozen jobs at a mill that employed 500-600 people. those jobs never came back.

>>19324464
What do you mean? The US manufacturers more than it ever did before but the industries are less labour intensive. Unemployment was around all time modern lows before corona. Most people won't want to work in shit factories for minimum wage to make cheap toys anymore than McDonalds, the jobs Chinese have access to aren't better quality.

>>19324774
>And for every job brought back stateside 10-100 chinese slaves are replaced with an American middle class person supporting American middle class a family.
But America has a relatively small population and most people are rich whereas most of the world has a big population and is poor. Where's the room for growth in America? You're going to export stuff to Africans? There's a reason rich countries move towards service economies.

>>19324897
And to add on, China is further in the process of automation than the States by a bit of a margin. Hoping for the return of manufacturing in the States is a total backward move. Innovation is the way, ie Silicon Valley. But that would require effort, something Americans lack sorely.

>>19324464
Nah, they are not coming back. If they do truly decouple from china, they will just starting using another similar country like India, makes 0 sense to pay retard burgers higher wages to do the same shit just because muh jobs

>>19324994
the unfortunate truth is that the vast majority of the population doesn't have the intelligence, education, and "polish" to function in the upper echelons of a service based or technology based economy. manufacturing was the one shot they had at a middle class life and now it's gone, forever. this is why the majority of new jobs created over the past 20 years are $10-15/hour wagie jobs in retail, customer service, and warehouses.

>>19324464
i got confused for a second by this question since the US still has a massive and growing manufacturing industry.

are you asking if people will stop buying cheap chinese parts? no.

>>19324897
So your argument is basically we should pay chinks to do everything so 100% of money from it goes to China and this will help American middle class more than if we just paid Americans to do the same job but better and with less shortcuts and qc failure. I don't quite follow your line of thought because it seems like less money going to Americans would be worse for Americans, not better.

>>19325060
lower middle class life today is much better than middle class life in the 60s with a factory job.

also median household income is like 90,000 a year in cities where you actually need money to live well.

>>19325097
let's make this simple with a hypothetical:
a) product made in some chink shithole, americans can buy it for $100. manual labor production line with 100 chinks.
b) product made in america, americans can buy it for $150. automated production line with 10 americans.

do 10 american jobs (and the economy benefits derived from those 10 american jobs) outweigh the hit of a 50% increase in price to all consumers?

>>19325186
>automated production

where will it come from? what will be the costs of installing it?

the costs of 100 chinks is rent of the shack and some rice

>>19324464
>Is manufacturing job gonna be coming back to US?
If US wages fall balow the wages in ASIA, then yes, there might even be a chance that companies will upfront billions upon billions to build highly automated factories in the USA again that will give some few 10k people new jobs.
Otherwise, no!
On the other hand, everyone wants to have "manufacturing back" but no one would actually want to work low wage manufacturing jobs anymore if they were available. Those factories would be stuffed with Indians, Somalians and Mexicans because the average Burger wouldn't do the job. Heck they don't even want to mow their own lawn.
BRING BACK MANUFACTURING = build your own shoes in a swatshop around the corner next to the Wendys. yeah, no, that's only cool in theory and not in practice
>US is decoupling from China
There is no such thing.
If the USA can decouple itself from a single digit percentage of their imports from China I'd consider this an economic miracle.

>>19324897
Any additional manufacturing jobs in the US benefits the US. Any fewer manufacturing jobs in China hurts China. Goods may cost marginally more, but what good are cheap goods if your population can't afford to buy them. This is before even considering the quality of Chinese vs American good. (Buy once a year vs buy once)

>>19324917
The US is also the largest consumer market in the world, and is already the least integrated with the rest of the world. The US is the only major power in the world that is food, energy, and mineral secure.

>>19324994
We'll see how much of their 'lead' they can maintain when they no longer have free reign to steal western industrial technology. Standing up to Chinese IP theft is one of the few things cucked yuros have supported Trump on.

>>19324774
>Get fucked, manufacturing jobs are coming back
What companies are building new up-to-date manufacturing plants from scratch in the USA?
Could you provide a list for reference?
>inb4 TSMC

>>19325248
>where will it come from? what will be the costs of installing it?
cheap corporate debt, second/third/fourth round IPOs, bond or convertible bond issuance. automation projects are fucking expensive but if they have good maintenance schedules they last a long time and will pay for themselves many times over. companies aren't making these decisions blindly. teams of engineers and financial analysts are projecting useful lives of automation machinery and crunching the internal rate of return before greenlighting projects.

>>19325282
>This is before even considering the quality of Chinese vs American good. (Buy once a year vs buy once)

on-shoring production does not automatically yield a higher quality product. chink products suck dick because they use shit raw materials, shit quality control, and shit labor. if you import those shit practices into america your product will suck just as much but instantly cost more due to higher labor rates, costlier raw materials, utilities, etc.

now imagine the cost of a high quality, made in america product when you tack on tighter manufacturing tolerances and more stringent quality control.

>>19325282
>Goods may cost marginally more, but what good are cheap goods if your population can't afford to buy them.
>The US is also the largest consumer market in the world, and is already the least integrated with the rest of the world.
This is only the doing of the printing press and nothing else.
China has its own BRRRRRRRRRR box nowadays which people want to ignore.
If the Chinese controller want to, they can emulate the USA at no problem, which means 1.something billion people living on a credit card buying useless shit they manufacture themself.

>>19324464
>Is manufacturing job gonna be coming back to US?
Nah the labour cost is to high for such a lazy workforce. India, Vietnam (this region), Eastern europe, north africa, South america for the mutts will be the the areas.
>US is decoupling from China for all reasons and domestic unemployment rate is higher than ever, what's a better time to do so?
Nah, these checks are doing a perfect job. The debt bubble hasn't fully peaked yet. It's the worst time for multinationals to invest. Once American the 1st world facade falls then you can compete with India et al.

>>19324464
>Is manufacturing job gonna be coming back to US
yes once it doesn't require workers

>>19325294
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article230424999.html
>Black and Decker
https://www.industryweek.com/leadership/media-gallery/22025813/americas-new-factory-building-frenzy
>Foxconn Technology Group
>Mazda
>Toyota
>Volvo
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/apple/apple-breaks-ground-1-billion-texas-campus-trump-tours-manufacturing-n1087606
>Apple (Large expansion of current facilites)

https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/ask-the-expert-reshoring/article/21962926/how-will-chinas-labor-turmoil-and-rising-wages-impact-reshoring
Is an interesting read on the cost/benefit analysis of doing business in the US vs China.

It's time to face the music, if you are not already rich, your only chance to make it is to gamble in the markets. Very few will survive. Most of us are doomed to a life of serfdom as automation eliminates the very last of the jobs

>>19325294
>>19325480
>>19325481
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/10/magic-wand-or-not-manufacturing-employment-is-its-lowest-density-record/
>+480,000 manufacturing jobs since Trump took office. Lets see what he can do in his second term. (Assuming he wins the house and faces a fraction of the obstruction)

>>19325377
It literally does. If you fuck someone over in the US your reputation is fucked and you can be held liable. Good luck suing a Chinese company. Those practices are accepted in shitholes because they are shitholes. Once you have all stages of business taking place within one country then laws and regulations can be more effectively applied.

https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/ask-the-expert-reshoring/article/21962926/how-will-chinas-labor-turmoil-and-rising-wages-impact-reshoring
This article breaks down how the cost of doing business in the US and China are approaching parity.

>>19325146
Bullshit. Back in the day you could buy a home on the beach working as bagger at a grocery store. I know, my grandfather did it.

>>19325652
>480,000

ironic now that the pandemic will wipe out around 7 million permanently (although not all in manufacturing)
how many of those jobs actually pay above the median wage? also it doesn't matter what country the jobs are in they will be automated eventually

>>19324464
who is this semen demon?

>>19324464
Those are my favortie type of milkies. I don't like big saggy ones. Those are nice cuppable size but also perfectly formed probably with a small attractive nipple. Those are the type of milkies taht wil still be nice by 50.

>>19324671
The machinery still exists, brainlet. Just put the shit on a boat and ship it back over here.

>>19325652

>trump

>second term
>winning the house

Go back

>>19325752
you've never worked in heavy industry, have you? calculate the costs on loading, shipping, and unloading, and installing tens or hundreds of thousands of tons of very large industrial equipment. it would be a monumental waste of money.

>>19325506
>>19325652
>Volvo "While it ultimately expects to create nearly 4,000 jobs following the introduction of a second vehicle to its production lineup from 2021, it is currently trying to fill about 1,500 to 2,000 positions of those positions."
>Mazda/Toyota "the Mazda Toyota Manufacturing facility in Huntsville could eventually employ up to 4,000 team members."
etc. etc.
you see the problem?
10k of manufacturing jobs coming back to the USA will cost the companies tens of billions of dollars.
This is nothing more than virtue signaling by companies running on debt. They need an alibi.
Getting 100.000 additional manufacturing jobs back to the us for excample would cost tens of trillions of USD upfront for the companies.

>>19325701
>Ironic
Literally not irony.
>now that the pandemic will wipe out around 7 million permanently (although not all in manufacturing)
The pandemic is bullshit, and the economic damage was planned, but cite your sources
>how many of those jobs actually pay above the median wage?
Almost all of them are above the median wage.
https://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iag31-33.htm
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/median-weekly-earnings-of-full-time-workers-increased-4-point-0-percent-in-2019.htm
>also it doesn't matter what country the jobs are in they will be automated eventually
So why even bother right?

>>19325823
are these the mental gymnastics that MIGApedes supporters go through a daily basis?

>>19325652
Confirmation bias built upon ignorant/arrogant hope. The USD is what's going to kill America. Never in history has 1 country been so indebted.

>hose practices are accepted in shitholes because they are shitholes
In china yea, RoW not so much, India for example reformed its court system to be much more internationally friendly since '18. Remember Countries are simply just corporations, they want business.

>This article breaks down how the cost of doing business in the US and China are approaching parity.
This is true, hence why the chinks have these building projects in Africa. For example they built a port in Kenya. The nation can't pay for the port, the chinks will come along reorganise the debt with concessions for chink manufacturers. This covid stuff has just accelerated manufacturing to move.

>>19325864
>Oh shit, he proved every part of my argument wrong! I know, I'll call him a MIGApede! Hehe I got him good!

>>19325904
We agreed that China is a shithole and savvy business men would rather do business in non-shitholes. Are you now arguing that due to increased costs in China they are going to start manufacturing in Africa? Poorly copied chinese knockoffs made by Africans? Oh shit just bought 100k units. Every time I BTFO you, you come up with some new bullshit and it's not fooling anyone.

>>19325815
>>19325778
Lmao we're here to make money. Sticking your head in the sand is generally not a good investment strategy.

>>19325722
Ummm anon men dont produce milk

>>19326071
>USA is the only country in the world

>>19326114
Literally the only country that mattes.

>>19324464
>and the cost of american labor is so great that the products would double or triple in price.
>"oh muh gerd i have to pay more than #2.99 for htis cheap piece of plasctic garabge!
>"its literally the end of the world"
>"we cant aford to pay fair prices!"

What this this sensationalist retard argument com;etely ignores is the fact that Americans could do without 80% of the garbage they constantly buy now. And either leave that money in savings (what an crazy idea)
or they can wait until they have enough money to buy one or two quality long lasting items that have value, purpose, use and support American manufacturing jobs

I would gladly pay $4000 for a refrigerator that costs $1500 today if it meant that it was built in America and supported Grass roots American economy

the hysterical koolaid media and govt mouthpieces wont even speak such sensible things so it sounds crazy to most people because,... well, if your an idiot brainwashed sheep, its hard to think for yourself

>>19326182
Shit, sorry OP. meant to reply to this clown >>19324671

>>19325815
I've been trying to post a reply to this, but I can't get it past the spam filter for some reason. Rest assured, you got BTFO. Please explain your idea
>Getting 100.000 additional manufacturing jobs back to the us for excample would cost tens of trillions of USD upfront for the companies.
when Trump has gotten 480,000 already?

>>19326182
consoomerism is the basis of our meme perpetual expansion economy. why do you think congress gave us wagies a $1200 stimulus to spend on chinkshit televisions at walshart? why do you think trump announced support of a second stimulus a few days ago? without cheap chinkshit to blow our wagiebux on, we are fucked.

>>19326055
>business men would rather do business in non-shitholes
Of course, but guess what, they don't live there, their job is to make money. to make money you either save on your current expenditure or raise prices. China was a shithole now you could say it's more advanced than America in the cities.
>Are you now arguing that due to increased costs in China they are going to start manufacturing in Africa?
No, that was to show that the chinks themselves are outsourcing. Kenya will make goods for the chinks, some of which will go into products for global export.
>Every time I BTFO you
Kek >>19325864 >>19326114
Have a look at the Triffin dilemma its already playing out.

>>19326156
I see you're the typical arrogant mutt. I've lived in your shithole, even turned down you shite tier passport. Have you left your state?

>Literally the only country that mattes.
Not once the US loses it world reserve status.
Inb4 MUH that won't happen

>>19326182
>I would gladly pay $4000 for a refrigerator that costs $1500 today if it meant that it was built in America and supported Grass roots American economy
Buy a Sub Zero then, best fridge i've ever owned desu

>>19326257
no

>>19326263
You're right. Business men are in business to make money. So why are multi national corporations opening plants in the US, and fleeing China? Because the world is changing. The US is about to economically obliterate another evil empire and maintain its hegemony over the world for the forseeable future. Of course one day the US will collapse. But if you think it's this century (millennia?) you're delusional.

So pray tell what irrelevant backwater are you proud to call your ancestral home?

>>19326071

I’ve capped your post for my inevitable MIGAtard denial collage after the election

>>19326367
Biden has longer betting odds than Trump right now ya know. Free money if you're so sure of yourself. Add this to your screencap, it's the max the website lets you bet at the moment.

reverse the trade deficit.

10% growth.

america returns to pre 9/11 feels

but this doesnt benefit isreal, so not gonna happen

>>19326363
>So why are multi national corporations opening plants in the US, and fleeing China?
You just answered your own question in a previous post, the chink prices are on par with the Mutts.
>you're delusional.
Projection out of arrogance
Read the below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma
SDRs stem from Triffin.

70% of all contracts in the whole world use the USD (I should say FRN). The FED is acting as the world's central bank. Once the US loses it status, which is decided by the markets not the US btw. History shows about every 80 years the world currency gets replaced & gets debased. the US has had its 80 years.

>>19326560
have faith

>>19326363
You've probably never read one of these. This is a Purchase Managers report for the Manufacturing industry in 'Merica. These are important as the processes have to be future looking (think automating production lines) along with the materials for production. They have a non manufacturing one also, released monthly.
https://www.instituteforsupplymanagement.org/ISMReport/MfgROB.cfm?SSO=1
>EMPLOYMENT
ISM®’s Employment Index registered 27.5 percent in April, 16.3 percentage points lower than the March reading of 43.8 percent. This is the index’s lowest reading since June 1949 (27.2 percent) and largest one-month percentage-point decrease since numeric records began in January 1948. “This is the ninth month of employment contraction, and at a much faster rate compared to March. All six big industry sectors experienced employment contraction as a result of furloughs and layoffs due to a lack of new orders and/or social-distancing mandates,” says Fiore. An Employment Index above 50.8 percent, over time, is generally consistent with an increase in the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data on manufacturing employment.

Of the 18 manufacturing industries, the only industry to report employment growth in April is Apparel, Leather & Allied Products. The 16 industries reporting a decrease in employment in April, in the following order, are: Printing & Related Support Activities; Furniture & Related Products; Transportation Equipment; Textile Mills; Machinery; Electrical Equipment, Appliances & Components; Fabricated Metal Products; Plastics & Rubber Products; Petroleum & Coal Products; Nonmetallic Mineral Products; Primary Metals; Miscellaneous Manufacturing; Wood Products; Computer & Electronic Products; Chemical Products; and Food, Beverage & Tobacco Products.

>>19326603
Trump is now in control of the Fed which means he controls all the central banks of the world.

The Triffin dilemma is an interesting one, and reserve currencies do fail - but it only applies to fiat. Trump wants hard money, gold and silver.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-next-fed-nominee-wants-a-gold-standard-its-an-idea-past-its-time/2019/05/23/81aac8c4-7d8d-11e9-8bb7-0fc796cf2ec0_story.html

JP Morgan owns all the silver bullion in the free world, but I suspect Trump is looking to get his hands on it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/12/ex-jp-morgan-silver-traders-guilty-plea-could-boost-manipulation-suit.html

Trump realizes that a failing US dollar will destroy the US and the world economy. If only a master of bankruptcy, who has been advocating for sound money for years, who wants to nominate a gold-standard absolutist to the NY fed, who also hangs a portrait on Andrew Jackson in the Oval Office was president. There is only one way to fix all this, and Trump is going to do it.

>>19326730
>Economic activity in the manufacturing sector contracted in April, and the overall economy contracted after 131 consecutive months of expansion, say the nation’s supply executives in the latest Manufacturing ISM® Report On Business®.

Any idea why?

>>19326283
>Buy a Sub Zero then
*inserts Mortal Kombat reference

>>19326794
You give way too much credit to trump. Like trump has some PhD in economics and is some kind of master mind genius. This is the same guy who ran a casino into the ground, a business that is almost a guarantee winner

>>19326794
>Trump is now in control of the Fed which means he controls all the central banks of the world.
Nah, crazy thought from people that don't understand double entry bookkeeping. The debt is still with the FED the create the 'Money' FRNs.
>Trump wants hard money, gold and silver.
See that road, highway, all that infrastructure? debt built that, you couldn't do that on the gold standard. Politicians love debt money its their best weapon/shield.
No matter what the fed debt needs to be settled. all the checks being written RN assure its place. taxes will go up as interest only payment will rise.
The nixon shock won't let the world trust the mutts anyways. you've proven to abuse your 'exorbitant privilege' & the mutt gov reneg on their promise all the time btw.

>JP Morgan
The oracle of Omaha (Buffet) just sold 90% of JP. btw
>Trumptard stuff
I think its funny that you call me delusional but put your faith into someone else. based purely on hyperbole. I really don't give a fuck, trump/the US gov don't get to decide. The creditors do. You know what the civil war was about right?

>>19326838
Yea, your grandchildren paid for it.

>>19326885
Seriously cool fridge/freezer, when you close the door a compressor turns on sucks the door in. Ice cream is kept perfectly in the freezer as excess moisture is vacuumed out.

>>19326995
He was clever enough to get elected president against the wishes of the entire political/media establishment and has managed to remain in office and get enough done to appease his base after three straight years of obstruction, interference, and conspiracy to fuck him. Even if he isn't an economic genius, he's a strategic one and his general ideas for the economy are going to be implemented.

With the boomers leaving the workforce there arent any people left who can manufacture. Like would you hire a lazy white millennial who cant wield a screwdriver or would you hire a 60 IQ somali who can't add 2 plus 2 or would you hire ms13? That's basically all that's left in the usa losers, except for boomers and they are retiring

>>19324671
I would pay double or triple for products not made in China

>>19324671
The same liberal argument for mexicans. Who will pick all the fruit!? OMG it will quadruple in prices!!!
Fuck off low iq nigger lover

>>19324464

>>19327125
Fiat money is an illusion. Yes, debts are still owed to the FED. Trump has essentially merged the FED and the Treasury, they no longer have power. The debts of the US are almost entirely owed to the US. They can be erased with a pen. What do you think Lincoln's greenbacks, or JFKs Executive Order 11110 were about? The creditors demand repayment? Let them collect it.

Also debt can exist under hard money. You just don't allow for fractional reserves.

I'm not sure what you mean about my grandchildren paying for it. Paying for what? The world is shutdown due to a bogus plandemic, and soon will be up and running. There will be pain, and permanent losses, but the US will recover. China probably will not.

>>19327364
You can still have fractional reserve with hard money, it just requires that banks work to maintain customer trust as opposed to having that trust arise from an endless string of bailouts

>>19327364
I should also make clear that weening the world off of fiat need not be a dramatic, earth shaking event. It can be done slowly and gradually, so that the world hardly even notices.

>>19327364
>Trump has essentially merged the FED and the Treasury, they no longer have power.
Just keep repeating it along with 'freest nation in the world', you mutts love your brainwashing.
>The debts of the US are almost entirely owed to the US.
KEK, NOPE the FED is independent, you don't understand central banking.
> What do you think Lincoln's greenbacks
to fund the FEDERAL government, great job missing the point of the war in the first place. Let me, a foreigner explain, it to you. The war was over States rights, states rights for what? To not pay a tax & to succeed from the union....HUM who would want taxes...the Creditors. The US killed their own kin in order to pay this tax. Let that set in.
>You just don't allow for fractional reserves.
ya don't say, fractional reserves are a meme anyways, but we're not going into FED deposits RN anyways. WAY to advanced
>Paying for what?
the debt thats been accrued at the fed. Don't you know the FED came and saved the economy & bought bonds. These ended up on the FED balance sheet, its how you built up the biggest debt in history.
>but the US will recover
Yea maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it will only be your children that pay. Grandchildren is too far to predict.

Get ready for higher taxes & more restrictions on your freedom. But let me guess 'This time it will be different'
Hope you know the tax that gets collected ONLY pays for the interest only payment on the national debt.

>>19327452
As much as i'd love to agree with your dream, Your opinion is not founded on reality. Fiat ain't dying, SDRs or some derivate will replace the USD as a world reserve.

Anyways, i'm off, no point wasting my time on the delsional, trump doesn't control the FED. Besides that's congresses job according to the constitution.

>>19327786
WOW maybe if I talk in CAPS people will think Im RIGHT

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/feds-cure-risks-being-worse-110052807.html
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm951

Sure, the FED is independent of the US gov. So when the US government decides to audit the FED and then disband them, how shall they resist? With what diplomats will they treat? With what army will they resist?

Way to take my point about the Greenback out of context. It was debt free money you retard.

The Fed only exists on paper. The second the political will to do away with them congeals, they evaporate. Once that happens it's GESARA, and the world is free.

I provided evidence to suggest that my theory is unfolding infront of our eyes. You have provided none. So slink away, and chalk up another 'win' in your commie cuck-shed.

>>19326329
why?