/biz/ - Business & Finance

he's still hoping he can escape to mars and leave the planet in shambles. now that's what i call based

Is California the frat house of the U.S

>>18994883
No, its that weird hippy guy who keeps giving you socialist leaflets but your nice to him because he held the door for you that one time

>>18994883
California is a Mexican shithole.

>>18994883
It's actually a scaled down version of the US. Rich coasts with stunning poverty and insane city government and poor agricultural heartlands with junkyard America in-between

>>18995117
>t. has never been to california
it’s really not as bad as you drama queens make it out to be

>>18995141
I lived in the bay area for 2 decades.

>>18995141
it suckz but >>18995153 is a retard as well

>>18995049
Que pasa, amigo?

>>18994850
>outlawed in Texas

Have fun musky

>>18994850
Forgive me /biz/ I didn't realize he was this based.
I am unironically buying TSLA Monday.
t. oldfag boomer

>>18994850
Never admired Elon more than now. Fuck leftists.

>>18994850
>elon leaves cali
>stock jumps 10%

>>18994850
Damn, I always though Musk was a lying scumbag but it turns out he was based af all along

>>18995205
They will unban Tesla pretty quickly once he really wants to move production there. Texans aren't THAT dumb.

>>18994850
>larps as Bob Page
>loves Alita
>gf likes loli hentai
>now this
El basado

>>18994919
>No, its that weird hippy guy who keeps giving you socialist leaflets but your nice to him because he pays for everything

FTFY

>>18994850
More like california left him in shambles. This nigga is broke all his net worth is based on his overpriced tesla stock. Probably why he has to sell his house lol what a cuck

Whatever your take on the Wuhan sniffels, is he starting to lose it? His tweets have become unhinged lately

>>18995153
The Bay Area or the Gay Area? Amirite

>>18995742
Hos net worth double in like 6 months cause his company is a meme and it will eventually come crashing down and he will known as the loser who lost over half his net worth so hes quickly trying to liquidate and sabotage his tesla stock

>>18994878
>creates a company that colonizes mars
>retarded humans eventually destroy Earth
>only option for survival is to beg Elon for an open slot in the colony
>becomes savior of the species
Is this man quite literally the most genius person to have ever lived??

>>18995997
No but you're the most retarded. Hes all talk. He was supposed to have a base on the moon and underground tunnels in every city by this point

>>18995141
why because you live in redding or some shit ? california is a hellhole unlike no other. worse than florida at this point. YEAH THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT !

>>18994850
What makes texas/nevada so appealing for him if he chooses to leave ca?

I just left CA after 3 years, and it felt like every other car on the road was a Tesla. Here I am in the south for 3 months and haven't seen a single one.

If he actually planned on moving his factories and losing almost all of his base buyers he wouldn't have tweeted it.

It was simply a threat no one listened to except fag OP

By the way, CA could survive perfectly fine as a separate country, more so than whatever bumfuck part (im guessing south or midwest) that you're from.

Keep consuming our popular media though, the state export and money maker (along with weed)

>>18996106
Tesla already has factories in Nevada, not sure about Texas. Its a baseless threat

>>18995465
This, can’t believe how much biz sucks Elon’s dick. He’s a cuck to his ugly girlfriend. Imagine leaving this for literal sewer rats like Azelia banks and grimes.

>>18996120
>Keep consuming our popular media though
except that no one is anymore. hollywood was kill before the wu flu. now it's like it never existed

>>18996089
>except when you realize most people leaving just can't afford it, differ in political ideology, or muh mexico invasion

>>18996120
How could California survive on it's own you have no water

>>18994850
California and New York literally own USA

>>18996234
we both know they have no answers for questions like that. they will smirk until the day the rug gets pulled

>>18996327
>thinking ANY US state is more powerful than the federal government
lol this country will completely fall apart before the federal government lets any state ever succeed or gain more power than the central government. see united states civil war. it's either all of nothing, if US ever 'breaks up' it would just be Rome 2.0

>>18996148
Anon, perhaps her personality was unbearable

>>18994883
>>18994919
california is the richest state in the nation, and the powerhouse of the bleeding edge technological progress. it defines the image of the united states in that role actually. its GDP is higher than any country in the EU except Germany. There is no America without California

>>18994850
Absolutely based

>>18995049
Dump it into the ocean

>>18996485
Absolute cope

>>18996485
how much of that is hard industry?
Everything else can move in just few years.

>>18996044
>he’s all talk
Kinda reminds me of someone I know

>>18996485
White Californian here. Shit's fucked and we're leaving.

>>18996619
hard industry is literally the easiest industry to move out, thats why so many other states became failures after their factories moved to China and Mexico. California industry is based on talent, the hardest one to move out and replace

Reminder that Musk pledged 52% of his Tesla shares as collateral on a 548 million personal loan because he literally can’t stop eating out, flying a private jet and putting his dick in randos

>>18996811
based

>>18996485
>speaking about how California used to be
Not gonna make it anon. Place has turned into an absolute shit show.
>t. Lived there for 20 years

>>18994850
>/pol/:
>wtf I love elon now

>>18995141
Lol I'm here right now and it's horrible, I am leaving as soon as possible.

>>18995230
you're welcome oldfag

>>18996515
Cry more southern poorie. Back to getting cancer in mines for minimum wage now

>>18996419
>women
>personality
>.t tranny
Grimes is a literal hippie who probably takes a shower once a month. Literally any woman is a step up in “personality” than her. Have you read that women’s tweets? If anything now that I think about it maybe she was the one that left because of Elon’s “personality”

>>18995141

>>18996485
>aktuuaally

It's a state of extremes. Sure there's some of the richest areas outside of DC and it's also filled with ghettos that would make Alabama look wealthy. Always hilarious to read inbreds like you bragging about what amounts to modern day feudalism.

>>18995141
It’s pretty bad anon, and to top it all off geologist have confirmed that it is overdue for a mega earthquake that will possibly kill millions and destroy a shit ton of houses and buildings.

ive lived in Cali my entire life and never seen a mexican in my life. Only poor jealous people will hate on Cali, far and away the best state.

>>18997287
I have lived in CA for 10 years. First in Sausalito, then in Huntington Beach, LA. And there is no way you won't see Mexicans.
Not that I mind them, I think some of them are hard working and friendly.
But I have a hard time believing what you say.
Mexicans are everywhere in CA.

>>18996485
California is asking federal government for money so can keep up with the gibs to the recently unemployed.

>richest state

>>18996485
California also has the most debt you mongoloid.
I really hope those retards try calexit and we cut off water to them. Things will get fun real fast for them.

>>18997180
She looks pretty based.

>>18994850
leaves california broke.. like you

>>18995049
I wish. White liberals ruin california. They just as bad as white conservatives

>>18997636
Yes, it's asking for money just for this year, instead of every year, like almost every other state does.

Southern states literally get a handout each year paid by Californians, but when it's time for California to get some help its all tears and b-b-b-ut. Entire states in the south would be living in huts if not for the generosity of Californians.

>>18994883

Absolutely not. Fraternities usually have standards and don't let any riff raff in the door just because they feel oppressed.

>>18995289

there's literally a Tesla store at The Domain in Austin. People repeating this meme are media weirdos who just want to be like "durr red state bad"

>>18996619
>Semiconductors, Software and Media, "Soft" industry has been in California for nearly 90 years.
>Manufacturing and other "hard" industry has moved to China.

Keep waiting for those "few" years when California inevitably "explodes". Any day now those libruls will ruin California.

>>18995341
>>gf likes loli hentai
explain

>>18998160
Stupid retard, the “soft” industries can be done literally anywhere with a concentration of universities and intelligent people. There isn’t anything inherently special about California and companies have realized this for a while now. The state has made it so unappealing to do business there that they are leaving in droves.

Have fun in Mexical.

>>18997089
LITERALLY 1 PICTURE TO DESCRIBE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WESTERN WORLD

>>18996485
They hated him because he told them the truth

Now Apple and Google just need to leave as well and then that entire state will crumble slowly enough that true califonians will take back the state and make it what it was 40 years ago.

>>18998210
The same reason dudes like shota: you're the young one.

>>18995049
this

>>18995141
I lived in LA for 8 years and have been to SF over 20 times. CA is a confirmed shithole. I live in NYC now which is also a shithole but 10x better than CA.

>causes seethe in your tornado-ridden direction

cmon step it up!

>>18996222
> Cost of living is driving people out
> Political bat shit ideology of state officials driving people out
> 3rd option heavily relates to the last, but basically a welcome mat layed out for illegals is driving people out
What exactly is the positive in that list?

>Flyovers bitching about Cali thread

Always love it

t. East Coast

>>18995141
LA here. Yes it is that bad

>>18994883
More like physical embodiment of tumblr

>>18996485
the cope is real. How pathetic. go back to taking black cocks

>>18994883
Its the crack house of the united states

I love all these butthurt middle of nowhere loser anons complaining about CA when they are probably stuck working at a fucking gas station or pushing papers in some bumfuck town that has nothing going for it.

Or actually most of them are probably just unemployed and failed higher education

t. making >200k on the west coast as a software engineer

>>18999492
>the cope is real.

Wouldn't cope be saying one of the richest places in the world is irrelevant?

>>18999089
Musk leaving will only impact Fremont for the lost jobs - if they don't take the workers with them, the people trained there will probably follow. But you think Apple and Google are the only companies that matter in CA, so I know you're a fuckwit just running his mouth on 4chan - and anyone who knows either company knows neither will ever leave the state.

CA will take more than a boutique car company leaving to make it "crumble", with the massive amount of industry that occurs in the state. Apple isn't even in the top 20 of employers. CA depends on universities, the military, agriculture, tourism, entertainment, and a slew of big industry swinging dicks like Chevron and Oracle.

There's more threat to CA with unfunded pensions than Apple or Google leaving, but you'd know that, if you didn't think like a child.

>>18995141
neither is Chicago but nobody cares and still laughs anyway

>>18994850
Musk is not the only one leaving California. THere been big names and companies leaving for florida and texas for a while now. In cal Taxes too high, living too expensive, too much traffic, too much socialism and their politicans clueless

>>18999708
>THere been big names and companies leaving for florida and texas for a while now.

Can you name some of them?

>>18999532
i hope for your sake you're one of the actual valuable ones in that bubble

>>18996044
Underground tunnels already exist in every city. Moon is pointless because it offers nothing for construction or survival without mining a bunch.

>>18999718
I can, there from entertainment industry. You can also look statistics it's outflow already long before covid

>>18999745
>I can
>Doesn't name any

Interesting

>>18998210
Grimes posted some on twitter and deleted it when people called her out for being a pervert

>>18994850
This guy keeps amazing me with how based he is.

>>18996619
Very little of it. The industry that could move did so over the last couple of decades. Most people think they know CA - they don't. Most of the activity is in and around SF, and LA/SD. The rest of the state is tourism, agriculture, or state land. The biggest employers in the state are universities, the military, and companies that can't leave, and state workers.
You faggots think a company like Chevron, that employs 10k people in the East Bay, can just up and leave anywhere. Doesn't work like that. Or the refineries in Martinez, they're not going anywhere. Or Disney. Or the port of Long Beach.

>>18997249
>geologist have confirmed that it is overdue for a mega earthquake
Like that's news, faggot. Geologists have been talking about that since the fucking 60's, probably earlier. Stop acting like you have breaking fucking news.

>>18997287
Leave your parents' basement for a change.

>>18999708
sniff

>>18999532
> make $200K
> save next to nothing because everything is expensive

>>18995049
Messycan shit hole is EXACTLY what Cali is!

>>18995141
Pleasant Hill, CA.

Cali is full of Messycan shit!

>>18999863
East Bay was the SHIZNET from 1972 to 1990.

>>18999966
Im in my mid 20s and have well into six figures saved up

does that make you upset?
Stay unemployed you flyover waste of space

>>19000247
I fucked more girls than you.

>>19000247
But you are a HELLBOUND Sanfransexual FAGGOT.

Hell Awaits

>>19000257
Anon is a virgin........
He has 6 figures, but he is a gay, faggot!

East Bay NIGGA!!!!!!!

PHBOYZ................

>>18996120
>US diverts all water from Commiefornia
>Everyone dies
Nice GDP bro

>>18999745
still no names, nice LARP

>>18999558
t. homeless man

>>18994883
No, that's probably Florida. California is Mexico but ran by jews.

>>18999600
That tourism and entertainment is drying up real quick. Isn't 50% of LA unemployed? How many voice actors does a studio really need for all the animated pictures they'll be forced to rush direct to consumer in order to bandage all the bleeding as (((social distancing))) orders are in effect?

>>18999532
>Live in Palo Alto
>Make $200k
>still broker than customer service rep living in Indiana

>>18997287
Good, stay there.

>>18999757
>>19000348
Chales Scwab
Toyota
Comcast
Jamba Juice
Kubota Tractor

It's a mix of big name businesses and ones you never heard of, but a lot of them are definitely leaving California. Small businesses getting fucked because of incompetent politicians and lefties thinking higher taxes mean free shit! Add Tesla to the big name list to.

t.Californian

>>19000399
>That tourism and entertainment is drying up real quick. Isn't 50% of LA unemployed? How many voice actors does a studio really need for all the animated pictures they'll be forced to rush direct to consumer in order to bandage all the bleeding as (((social distancing))) orders are in effect?

Jesus fuck, you're dumb.

I'll explain it to you like you're 5, because you think like a child: none of the tourism companies can leave the state, stupid. How are you gonna run Catalina cruises from Colorado? They can't just pick up the beaches and Mammoth Ski resorts or Yosemite and move to another state, you fucking retard. And entertainment will come roaring back when the coof lockdown ends. Hollywood isn't going anywhere.

But keep posting "California sucks herrr durrr duuuuuh", because you're going to anyway, no matter what anyone posts. Because you're a 4chan dickhole thumb punching lame insults into mommy's keyboard.

Im going going, back to back, to Cali Cali!

>>19000511
Yeah, they can't leave the state but no one is going to be using them and they just like every industry you mentioned is bleeding. Tick Tock nigger

>>19000511
The LGBT foundation may be able to "cure" you.

>>19000511
Labeling you as a Nigger is a complement. You should thank anon...................

>>19000484
Toyota left the state except for one small plant in LA years ago, stupid. But you posted anyway, retard.

Comcast is headquartered in Philly, retard.

Jamba Juice announced it was moving it's headquarters four fucking years ago, retard.

Kubota is a Japanese company, you FUCKING retard.

Schwab is the only legit one, but you had to make shit up, because you're a spastic. And a retard.

"Herr derr, I get called out, i google "companies leaving California and post words without looking to see if they're right, because I in 4chan, derrrrrrr"

How do you operate a computer being this retarded?

>>19000557
Yeah, they're bleeding because of the coof, you fucking child. They'll go right back to work with everyone else when it ends. You have no point. a 3rd grader could beat your ass with logic and common sense, and you type like you eat pennies.

>>19000247
People who LARP and overcompensate against flyovers are always upset enough for the both of us. You reek of insecurity. That's why you brag about your drone job, brag about your required high income, and brag about your shithole state because if you don't you will feel small and unimportant in this world and will have to find something more fulfilling in life at this late a stage in your life. The clock is ticking coastie, what are you going to do when the wake up call is for you?

t. Chicagolander, capital city of flyover country, blue collar wagie coasting on passive income, savings, and fucks to give

>>19000257
Congrats, youre a degenerate. I'm in a 2.5 year long relationship with a girl a met in college

>>19000273
k

>>19000748
>late stage in my life

im literally in my early 20's and probably make more money in 2 years than you've made in your whole career, and I can retire before im 30 with a couple mill saved
yourwhole post REEKS of cope lmao

>>19000794
You met a girl in college? May I ask how chads cum tasted? If she was over the age of 17, she's almost certainly been with several dozen guys before she "settled down" with you.

>>19000748
What the fuck is this real?

>>19000651
You know how I know you're a democrat trying to shill? Because you are trying to act elitist like lefties and shame people like those people still trying to push covid fearmongering. Face it, not only businesses are fed up, but even the people.

>Toyota left the state except for one small plant in LA years ago, stupid. But you posted anyway, retard.
They still left for Texas, leaving isn't a sudden thing takes time to move.

>Jamba Juice announced it was moving it's headquarters four fucking years ago, retard.
Same reason above.

>Comcast
They left California though, I said companies are leaving California. Mix of big names and ones you never heard of.

>Kubota is a Japanese company, you FUCKING retard.
https://www.dailybreeze.com/2015/05/14/tractor-manufacturer-kubota-follows-toyota-out-of-torrance-to-texas-taking-with-it-180-jobs/

>Schwab
Thanks for agreeing me on this faggot. Now suck my dick.

Stop spewing bullshit. Companies have been leaving California for years now. You think it just leave in a day?

>>19000794
Would you look at that? We're riling you up and you whip out more defense mechanisms to prop up your ego. Here's your problem: you're on an anonymous anime image board arguing with other anonymous people. No one gives a damn who you are, what you do, or where you come from and that kills you inside because we don't feed your ego. Even if you posted proof no one would care.

>>19000830
Jesus christ youre so insecure

For a state that's so hated, it sure is talked about a lot.

>>19000984
If I had shit in my cereal I would talk about that a lot too.

>>19000863
>Still trying
>Thinks calling me a "dem" is an insult, while being dumb, wrong, and retarded, the hallmarks of the Democrat party

>>18996222
>DUDE JUST BE MEGA RICH THEN CALIFORNIA IS GREAT
this is your autistic argument

>>19001029
Kek nice argument.

I like the weather here and the fact that most people aren't fat.
That's about it.

>>19001069
Most people there aren't fat because they're homeless.

>>19001012
That doesnt make sense

>>19001029

>>19000984
>For a state that's so hated, it sure is talked about a lot.

>>18995153
>>18995141
>>19000984
Grew up in Bay Area, was trained in computers at early age by Steve Wozniak, spent winters in Tahoe enjoying the snow and mountains, spend my summers on the beach surfing/volleyball/waterfall diving.. California sucks if you don’t use the seasons and crazy outdoors to their fullest

>my view

>>19001132
Is that a pic from Quicksilver park?

>>19001132
You know who else liked the outdoors and being isolated? unabomber

>>18996234
And you have no economy.

>>19001092
Get back to me after you find shit in your cereal. That is not something you sweep under the rug. I know I would tell everybody if it happened to me.

>>19001186
how long are those reaching arms of yours?

California is the best US state, that isn't even up for discussion. A Californian can afford to live in ANY state in the USA, the flyover vermin in the 49 other states dream of living in CA. People make fun of California because that is all they can do, no matter how much you want to deny it, success breeds jealousy.

Inbred hick cumskinned flyovers aren't even fit to eat a Californian's shit, you think they know something about running the best state out of them all?


California is basically this; POOR FAGS, NEED NOT APPLY.

>>19001274
Sunk cost fallacy, thine name is White Californians.

>>19001274
imagine this level of cope. how does one even function normally when they are constantly seething like this?
t. based KC resident who makes $110k and doesn’t pay $6k rent for a 2 bedroom apt

>>18996485
>”bleeding edge”
>here’s a new product that mines your personal data more effectively!

>>19001481
You live in KC, though. That's not "winning".

>>19001509
cry me a river coastfag, i love it here

>>19001481
>based
>KC

oh no no no no no

>>19001481
>KC resident
lmfao

>>19001186
>Based Uncle Ted
Yes. And that's a good thing.

>>19001274
>admitting to being nonwhite
Your opinion is now worthless.

>>18997180
>>18996148


Weird since she was actually in a reputable college double majoring in neuroscience and russian language.

I guess when you can bang any girl you want you might choose one that has her own drive, and thoughts.

>hurr durr this one make my pee peee get harder than udder one

shut the fuck up retard

>>19001509
But living in California is "winning?" lol. Congratulations on existing, boss.

>>19001586
>teehee I'll let my baby "choose its gender"
She's an NPC like all women. What you are majoring in college is meaningless if you don't make a living with it.

>>19001180
no, Saratoga hills, ocean kinda fogged
>>19001186
I am 45 min from shithole SF 45 from ocean 3hrs from snow, wish it was more secluded here actually

>>19001558
>>19001561
cope

>>19001180
you know what it is actually next to quicksilver think took that near air base

>>18995141
Bay Area sucks. LA is not bad

>>18997249
just wait till yall hear about yellowstone or idk flint michigan or maybe georgia with Kemp not knowing what asymptomatic means lmao

>>19001666

Spent a week in Orange County in 2002. Won’t go back. Seriously fuck that state!

>>18994850
He is based

>>19001867
based on what?

>>18995141
Yeah it's worse.

t. Guy who has been there A LOT

>>19001909
He told the California government to go fuck themselves.

>>18995742
You spelled BASED wrong

>>19001750
99% of this board can't even afford a literal shed in the bay area

>>19002125
>99% of this board can't even afford a literal shed in the bay area
99% of all first worlders can't afford a literal shed in the bay area because it's ridiculously overpriced.
>inb4 And here's why that's a good thing.

I grew up in the Bay Area. I thank GOD i left the "GAY AREA"...................

>>19000984

>>19001494
But bro, there's so much more innovation than that. Now we don't just have Uber Eats but we also have GrubHub, Doordash, and Postmates. The amount of stunning innovation and human progress coming out of California is the envy of the planet

I love this gringo so much. He hired and brought my entire family (15 people) across the border to work for him, all expenses paid by Tesla. In fact most of his employees are what mutts call "illegals" so he's pretty based and a humanist visionary! On now he wants us to colonize Texas!

>>19002125
It's actually kind of funny how you think this is an argument in California's favor when the reality it is just shows how fucked up and broken that shithole is

>>18994850
He can pay back the California subsidies and go where he wants, preferably a mental institution for monitoring...

I don't care about an industrialist who uses his inherited wealth to larp full time as a scientist and entrepreneur.

>>18996485
>bleeding edge technological progress
air bnb and uber are not technological progress lmao

>>18994850
idk why I laughed but I did heres a (you)

Tick tock

>>18995117
Is America fractal ?

>>19001127
>>19003391
Soijak posters are the "umads?" of 4chan who willingly paint themselves as the retards who are mad enough to reply but not smart enough to say anything upsetting.

that's all I'm going to say, because I was raised to believe that punching down is dishonorable.

>>18994883
No, man I wish it was.

>>18995141
LMFAO yeah if you're super rich or live in the northern forest areas. California is a fucking shithole with people leaving in droves.

>Soijak posters are the "umads?" of 4chan who willingly paint themselves as the retards who are mad enough to reply but not smart enough to say anything upsetting.

>that's all I'm going to say, because I was raised to believe that punching down is dishonorable.

>>18997249
Praise Poseidon. I'm going to have a barbecue in his name tomorrow, may he shake the earth and cast down the walls of California.

>>18995141
Ventura County reporting in.

>This is paradise don’t come TO MY REPUBLICAN COUNTY YOU fucking LA fags REEEEEEEEE

>>18997192

He has no cumback to the poo-map. But there really shouldn't be a cumback to the poo-map. I can only imagine the insanely high levels of cringe an attempted cumback to the poo-map would be.

>>19004425
Hey you stupid fucking tranny faggots, umad posters are the umad posters of 4chan. You're so fucking new that you have no clue it was started here. Like literally every other meme in existence. Fuck off already nobody invited you. Gas the kikes. Race war now.

>>18994850
>>leaves California, in shambles
fixed
musk's retardation is getting more exposure every day. will be glad to see the last of this silver spoon loophole exploiting twat

>>18995230
it's the /biz/ way

>>18996148
I think he already has 5 sons from previous relationships. idk what else he needs these chicks for other than funtimes.

>>18995049
It basically is. I visited a couple years back and was surprised how much it felt like one of those pictures you see online of third world countries like Mexico. Dirty streets, buildings and infrastructure falling apart, Spanish signs everywhere, Mexicans everywhere...

>>18999388
>muh flyover states
>t. jew york rat

>>18996775
Remember to keep your liberal views back where you left them or get the fuck out of my state.

>>19006319
I always find it amusing when a Jew Yorker calls anything a “flyover state” when they tend to be cleaner and more pleasant than NYC.

>>18996485
based

>>19001132
Of course the country, the geology and landscape is among the best in the world. Top tier. It's the people that make it approaching 3rd world.

>>18996222
>can't afford it
paying $4000 a month to live in a 100sqf apartment next to drug dealers and shit in the streets but atleast i get to live in california!

>>18995997
>mars
no.
dome.
go.
crash..
op
fishbowl

>>18996106
Lower taxes, friendlier regulations, and decent pool of employees

>>18998118
What are you talking about? CA is insolvent, it has a ratio of like 0.32 or something, it can't even cover 100% of it's liabilities. Most southern and midwestern states can, but Cali can coast on federal money since it has an enormous military presence which guarantees it will be kept artificially afloat no matter what.

leadership is pure nepotist trash, through and through. Look into Newsom's connections.

>>18998113
You have to go back.

>>18999811
wow didn't realise Grimes was kind of based