/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>18947933
Bullish on Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland

short all of western Europe except Portugal

>>18947933
Czechia is by far the most underrated country in Europe.

>>18948004
you motherfucker

>>18948036
Whats so good about it?
As OP I'd say short Germany. fuck their car industry

>>18948036
They have literal commies governing them, you stupid fuck.

>>18948004
Czechia has literally commie government full of retards. Slovakia is bankrupt from decades of corrupt governments. Poland is papal dictatorship. In Austria they voted wannabe nazi Russian-deal maker into leading the country.

Croatia and Slovenia I have no idea, but Slovenia looks like they have their shit in check.

Short UK, long Eastern Europe

>>18948071
Fuck their car industry?

Slovakia and Czechia are the most car manufacture oriented economics in entire fucking europe.
They are going to get ass raped by crisis and electromobility.

They are already going bankrupt by now, with wealthy German companies (because their government actually had the money to support them) buying any eastern euro company worth shit for pennies.

All those retards talking eastern europe up ... fucking hell

>>18948004
why not short Portugal too tho

>>18947933
long baltics, short west and rest of east

>>18947933
Moving from Australia back to Estonia (hopefully) the end of this year.
Might go Latvia.

>>18948004
Deluded polfag

Seriously, France, Germany, the UK, Belgium, Switzerland, Lux, the Netherlands, and the Nordic countries, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland and I'd even put Estonia with them, will be gaining traction in the next decade, economically.

Honorable mention to Croatia and some of its neighbors

Socially and culturally, it's another story but that's nothing one can fight against for now. Things will stabilize at one point

>>18948334
are there a lot of Estonians in straya? Cause I used to know this Estonian girl who moved there

>>18947933
Greece. Already got away with 40% profit on my initial before corona crash

>>18948308
(((top 500)))

Northerners will do fine. Sadly they have to carry the dead weight in the South on their backs like they did for the past two decades. fucking monkeys.

Long Slovenia, Montenegro.

>eastern europe
>poor
>low or negative population growth
>no upcoming industry to save it
>people fleeing the country
>biz: long eastern europe

Never change, biz

>>18948792
theyre not overrun with shitskins so theres that

>>18948792
>low or negative population growth
That's a good thing you globohomo faggot.

>>18948796
They're not white either

>>18948801
In terms of investing in a country? It's not a good thing

>>18948842
How is GDP per capita rising not a good thing?

>>18948461
>are there a lot of Estonians in straya?
yes, Working Holiday visa. 1-2 years of working shit jobs, traveling and accumulating some money to bring back home

>>18948004
Unironically based
Eastern Europe is full of potential. Western Europe is a ticking time bomb

>>18948808
depends on how far east sure, wouldnt call a polack non white though

>>18948897
Southern Europe will be the anus of Europe again. I hope we can team up with our Eastern brothers to form a proper union. You know, without the Med corruption and victim complex. GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER AND STOP SPENDING MONEY ON FRIVOLITIES, GUIDO.

>>18948004
Dude Portugal's tourism is like at least 5% of their GDP and that industry is fucked. Only way Portugal might be bullish if Europe starts being more self reliant and outsources to poorfag countries instead of China. Or if Fiat collapses completely since Portugal has good gold reserves.

>>18948073
>Poland is papal dictatorship. In Austria they voted wannabe nazi Russian-deal maker into leading the country.
>t. totally not a soros-news reading faggot

>>18948452
Belgium and France don’t have a good economy, they spend too much money and don’t tax enough, moreover France cheats in all EU regulations which will eventually bite them in the ass and Belgium will have more and more problems with forming a government.
They aren’t stable countries in the long run

>>18948942
>France
>the only EU country that redistributes 50%+ of GDP
>not taxing enough

>>18948957
Cool it with the anti semetism.

>>18947933
Estonia, Czechia, Denmark, Finland, Latvia

In that order. Anyone saying any other countries from EE ought to get his shit together

t. slovak

>>18948796
So? The US is, and we're in the best position of all the developed countries to survive this. Its not the end-all-be-all pol likes to pretend it is

>>18949007
Finns (and Estonians are Cryptofinns) are great innovators but not the greatest businessmen. Remember Nokia.

>>18949007
It appears we are stuck in the doghouse forever

>t. Latvian

>>18948004
Croatia is absolutely not, in any way, bullish

t. Croat

>>18949043
are u one of those fags that trade fractals?

>>18947933
Bullish on Norway, mainly Møre og Romsdal and Vestlandet.

>>18947933
you know the pendulum left/right swinging meme
well i'm extremely bearish on the uk, i feel like our huge empire swing of conquering the world after the misery of endless invasions will lead us into communism for decades (essentially our bear market that probably started when we joined the EU)
although we could have a solid dead cat bounce at some point once we leave it

>>18948004
>Czech Republic
Ruled by commies, more degenerate than Western Europe.
>Slovakia
>>18948073
Debt to gdp is shrinking and not too high compared to others. Don't know much but this anon doesn't either.
>Austria
Everyone is a commie, terrible culture of non-doing, could bite them long term but they're not gonna immediately crash.
>Slovenia
Amazing for crypto, commie-tier taxation for everything else. They're improving but that's because it can't get worse. Pretty country tho, worth visiting.
>Croatia
50%+ youth unemployment, the rest of them are waiting tables and accepting hostel guests as a career. How about no.
>Poland
Gonna benefit the most from Trump fucking China over the coronavirus, a lot of industry is moving there imo.
>t. Bulgarian, so not necessarily biased

>>18949082
Nope. My point is they need to partner up with other Europeans. There was no reason for Apple to win this game. The current problem is France, Germany and the Benelux countries mortgaging the future of Europe for their fantasies of humanitarian superpowerism. Literally clean your cities before "fixing" the world.

>>18948957
A lot of people work off the books in France and Italy

>>18949152
How exactly are people "commies" in Austria? Last time i checked, the latest coalitions they had were christian democrats/right wing populists and now christian democrats/green party, with the communist party at around 1%

>>18949152
>Austria
>Everyone is a commie

no, would say the opposite, but i mostly circulated in male dominated industries and military, also live in a conservative Region

>>18948103
The only anon with a brain here.

germany and other nordic countries are the only ones with money to survive this crisis. Their companies wiil buy all surviving southern and eastern companies in this crisis.
germany managed to finally conquer europe and you didnt even notice.

>>18949346
christian democrats are in a coalition with the greens now, that's only with the ibiza/greta effect combined

>>18948083
>long Eastern Europe
Ok burger

>>18948073
>wannabe nazi Russian-deal maker
where do you get your information?
let me guess you are German

>>18949129
Why?

>>18948801
>A countries brightest youth moving away from the country is good
Fuck off pol burger

>>18949441
>he fell for the neverending world population growth ponzi scheme
Ok npc

>>18949441
Better to have a negative population growth than to import people who literally have a net negative effect on the economy according to every single study ever conducted.

>>18947933
Extremely bearish on UK. Trust me I live here. Lowest iq country in Europe guaranteed people here are so dumb it's unreal, having half of your teeth left in your 40s is socially acceptable here, statistically most obese country in Europe. Literally everywhere in Europe does everything better.

One of the only good things I cant fault with the UK is the retail banking sector is very competitive. Up until Corona, you would get paid up to like £200 to switch bank for free, just to keep the industry competitive, got lots of literally free money doing this.

>>18949478
Based and redpilled

>>18949477
>he thinks In dichotomy’s
Ngmi bro

>>18948942
>Been around hundreds of years
>Some burger says they are not stable

>>18949478
Obviously I don’t think anyone should be importing any sludge , but if you think it’s bullish to have the youth of all Eastern countries move west, you’re completely brain dead

>>18949477
To add, if Germany , UK, France ect lost 30% of their population it’d be a good thing and also manageable as they have 60 million plus population that is also 30% sludge people, most Eastern European countries are between 3-10 million population. Also amoungst the oldest population by average age in the world

>>18949441
Still more prosperous countries in EE absorb labour force from those less fortunate. Population growth is same as in WE or little better, but muslims and niggers in western part produce more welfare leeches so it seems better on graphs.

>>18949500
If you think the UK has the lowest IQ in Europe you've never spent any considerable amount of time abroad. There are so many things you take for granted and you only realise it once you've had to heavily go through foreign bureaucracies. "Europe does everything better" has not been my experience AT ALL.

>>18948957
It’s easy to evade taxes in Southern Europe (and yes as a Dutchman the south starts at the border with Belgium)

Moreover France simply spends too much on pensions, those fuckers work until 60 at most. Meanwhile the Dutch have the longest worklife of all of Europe, having to work well untill 67 and it’s highly likely to increase further

>>18949530
I’m Dutch. Fuck the French for making us pay for their pensions

>>18949607
Let me know when all western countries have their smartest youth moving/working to Asia bro, eternal western victim complex.

Bullish on Germany if they finally manage to move into the digital age instead of building hundred year old technologies.

>>18948004
This, Intermarium is going to be big

>>18948073
Can confirm im from slovakia. Its really shitty country full of corrupt subhumans in leading positions. And fake country af. Slovak nation doesnt even exist. And never did.

>>18949075
Well, compared to Slovenia, at least you have Kuna, which you can play around with.

You make 1eur = 10hrk, more eur influx from tourism, all export become more expensive, while domestic production keeps the same price, thus this stimulates domestic economy. which then exlots at a lower cost etc.

Slovenia on the other hand has EUR and is FUCKED. No room for anything but austerity.

>>18949702
Corona helps, boomer begin to realize them driving a hour into a ((office)) just to do stuff they could do better at home is incredibly stupid
But dont bet on it, if you want a good german stock look into sma solar technologies, ticker s92
1 billion marketcap and a whale is buying it up since last year, holding the price down
World market leader in solar inverters with 99% efficiency

Italy, Hungary, UK

It's badly priced in you idiots. Italy won't collapse, Hungary hasn't become a dictatorship and Brexit will be fine.

>>18948036
What is it with Americans and the Czech republic?

>>18949914
Italy is in the process of collapsing and has been for decades. The only thing keeping them alive is handouts from the Northerners although Northern Italy is not that bad.

Everyone in Europe is fucked the union is a joke

>>18950034
We are as weak as the weakest link. Sadly the combined population of the Med menace is larger now than the functional part of the Union. So yeah, we are all fucked. Dragged down into the Med by the massive weight of the debt burden of the South.

The European Plutocracy will not allow to let the Union fall apart. They rather have the Norths work their asses of while being prudent so the Italians won't start a fit again because they can't get free money.

>>18947933
BULLISH:
>Finland
>Serbia
>Poland
>Russia
>Albania
>Bosnia
>Denmark
>Slovakia
>Belarus

BEARISH
>France
>Germany
>UK
>Ireland
>Belgium
>Czechia
>Italy
>Slovenia
>Croatia
>Romania
>Moldova
>Montenegro
>Macedonia
>Greece
>Spain
>Ukraine
>Sweden
>Norway
>Estonia
>Iceland

>>18950070
This is true. The Med countries are going to have a much bigger say. Because the old greedy German hag let Cameron travel back to London with empty hands. How can Europe unite behind Germany when they play brinkmanship with their allies all the time?

>>18948919
>since Portugal has good gold reserves
40 years ago we had like 3 times as much as what we have now. Commies just sold everything for cash when gold was at like 200$/ounce. Either way, most of that gold is stored in Switzerland...

>>18950115
the Brits leaving is the nail in the coffin. We can't support the Meds, we just can't. And as they can't do it themselves, this means the EU (you know, those guys we don't vote for and get chosen behind closed doors) will perform some weird moves to keep the Union from splitting. This worries me.

Here in the Netherlands we have been cutting costs everywhere unlike what happened in the South. That's why we can borrow against negative interest, have a huge money reserve for our pensions etc. The EU is now - semi covertly - making plans on how they can "reinvest" this wealth in the South.

Eurobonds, that bullshit, is not going to happen. The Dutchman won't stand for it and rightfully so. But the ECB has just announced that they don't care and will just repro more worthless assets of the Meds to drive their interest down (and ours up). Meaning we can't even choose. It happens one way or the other.

This is a very dangerous game we are playing. The little value we have going around right now will be allocated to the wrong places (like Italians nationalising shit companies to fuck them even more). This is what kills economies long term; inefficient allocation of wealth and value by an undemocratic bureaucracy.

>>18950183
Well put. People are not going to put in the extra hours if the system is broken and solidarity non-existent. You need to fix the incentives.

>>18950183
>The Dutchman won't stand for it
Every country will stand for it realistically. That's the problem.

>>18950310
Exactly. The Dutchman doesn't want to work for the Italian and neither does the Italian want to work for the Dutchman. This is logical, I have nothing with Italians to be honest. Don't speak the language and culturally we are further from each other than Poland and the Netherlands are.

>>18950379
To keep the system in check. Critics are not allowed in the EU as it is not in line with "solidarity". I think it is very solidair to not give away free money to a government with a chronic spending habit. Not only for the Netherlands but also the political integrity of the EU and even the Italians themselves. Think of the EU breaking shitstorm if Italy uses even a euro of that money to nationalise Alitalia or buy that stupid submarine they want. The system is broken and the EU bureaucracy just pastes another bureaucratic institution into the mix when the current system is not sustainable anymore. The EU itself is a bureaucracy bubble about to burst.

And this all also goes for Dutch politician like that retard Timmermans. He opted for the EU to be able to take control of a government if they don't adhere to his absurd idea of being fully green in a decade or 2. It's madness, anti-democratic and totally disconnected from reality. Only somebody stuck in the bureaucracy of the EU - so far away from the normal citizens - would think of something like that.

And that is exactly the undoing. It's a classic case of fear of abandonment of the EU - thinking they need to force it down on their citizens or otherwise the EU will fail - and the fear of moving fast of the actual population.

I was a Europhile and I still like the concept. But the speed at which things have moved is ver very dangerous. Further financial intergration by some bullshit like Eurobonds or EU baillouts of banks is finish line for the Union.

>>18950541
Do you think there's any real appetite in the Netherlands for leaving the EU? Or is it more likely the union will simply dissolve before that happens.

>>18950183
>Here in the Netherlands we have been cutting costs everywhere unlike what happened in the South. That's why we can borrow against negative interest, have a huge money reserve for our pensions etc.
This is bullshit and you know it. We used to have an industry in the Southern countries - until the EU came and told us we couldn't and had to import everything from Northern countries. They bought our auto industry out of existence, and then we all had to buy Audis, Citroens and Renaults. Likewise with agriculture, the EU literally paid our farmers to sit on their asses so that we had to buy French cereal, and now thousands of km went from being cultivated land to wild forest. Plus, your country is a tax haven - there's at least 3 big supermarket chains from my country who changed their fiscal address to the Netherlands because of that.
Basically, in the last 3 decades, you watched the Southern economies withering while those countries consumed products and services coming from central Europe. And now you're outraged that you have to use some of the wealth you accumulated to hand out as charity. The point is that Southern countries have no business granting free access to their markets to foreign goods free of tariffs. Just as northern countries have no business granting free access to their markets to poorfags from the south. Everyone loses, except a select few. But anything you hear in this sense is immediately dismissed as "xenophobic" and "backwards". The Dutchman might not stand for that, but he'll eat the plate of shit anyway, because that's what he's been trained to do.

>>18950097
Go back to pol burger

>>18948004
you have no idea what you're talking about
t. eastern euro

>>18950716
It's growing for sure but I don't think we will. We are too small and to dependent on exports. We don't have the balls to do it anyway.

We should have never gotten into the Eurozone. Sharing a currency with countries with such a different economy and no freedom of labour (only jobs with high education levels - due to English - and low level jobs where communication is not important have actual freedom of movement) is a terrible idea. When the Netherlands profits from a higher interest rate and a weak currency (due to exports) it might be that France wants the opposite. This means that one party has to give up wealth for the other or both have a suboptimal system by meeting in the middle. It is just not efficient!

We are in this twilight zone where there is too much financial intergration so we all go down together with the weakest link, but at the same time not enough to form a big strong Union everybody benefits from. Like moving in together with a girlfriend; you can't just backpedel and move out without admitting defeat. On the other hand you are unhappy now and so is your girlfriend. You can either sit and wait for it to get better or push further integration down everybodies throat (by getting a baby in this example). The EU chose the latter option.

>>18950864
I know Italy didn't get the deal they wanted out of the EU either. But Italy has been having issues since far before the EU (they actually cheated themselves in just like Greece). Also the biggest non-tax payer in the Italy is the Italian citizen. You have 3 times more savings than the Dutch do because we funnel everything to our government. If Italy needs money that fast they should first go to their own citizens before they decide to force countries in a zero sum game only poor (in the sense that they have a large deficit and thus high interest rates) countries benefits from.

And I hope you understand that identifying who benefited from the Eurozone is a bit too complex to just calculate like that. The Netherlands is the biggest benefactor of the EU per capita but we get cheap exports in return. In the end the rules are all the same for us, Italians had 20 years to adapt and they did not - instead voting in one populist after the next (5 in the past 10 years). Blaming losing your industry etc. on the EU sounds a bit too victimmy for me. There was ample opportunity to change that as we can see other countries do. In the meantime the Netherlands has changed significantly. We pay far more taxes than Italians do and we benefit from that by having the ability to soldier through a crisis (negative interest etc.). No, the Dutchman should not have to share that with any other country. We can talk about loans but you sure as hell are not going to get a blank check. I don't think that will benefit you either.

how do i invest in the Moldovan prostitute market?

>>18950864
Europe has no interest in actually being mutually beneficial in any way that inconveniences Germany or the big players. Logically if we have no common language we will never see ourselves as European citizens and it is obvious that the only language it makes sense to make the official European language is English but we all know that would never work in practice which makes the whole idea of a united Europe ridiculous. In the unlikely event the Eurozone doesn't collapse Ireland will probably thrive as they are now the only European country that speak English as their first language.

>>18947933
>which european countries are you bullish on?
UK

>>18947933
bearish on euro
>so i guess that makes me bullish on italy and the other countries who never fixed their inflation

>>18951215
Okay Muhammad.

>>18948073
>In Austria they voted wannabe nazi Russian-deal maker into leading the country

Not seeing the downside??

>>18951215
Worst hit by coronavirus.
Brexit.
Muslim invasion.

>>18951098
you are totally brainwashed by propaganda
saying that Italian public expenditure is high is complete non-sense because it’s unironically the world lowest

>>18951098
I'm not Italian vriend, I'm Portuguese. Obviously each country has their particular problems. We had a right wing dictatorship followed by a military junta and then actual communists, so we basically got into the 80s with a massive delay, and every since then, we've been socialist because whenever someone shows up who's not, he gets the label of fascist and he's done for life. Obviously, expenses are ridiculously high, with no return. And a couple of years ago we were paying more in debt interest than in education and healthcare combined.
>You have 3 times more savings than the Dutch do because we funnel everything to our government.
I've been working in the Benelux for the last 5 years, and I gotta say the amount of taxes you pay here is insane. That being said, here at least you have some return from what you pay.
It is complex indeed. We have a proverb that says that cold and hunger are what sets the wolf on its way. I think that for us to have a chance to thrive we would have to go through actual poverty for some years to go back to being self sufficient.

>>18951191
100% agreed. I remember when Portugal was paying a shitload of interest because the debt was considered trash by rating agencies, and getting fined by Europe for it, and at the same time, France was in the same situation but that drunken faggot Junker was saying that the EU wouldn't fine France "because it is France". The EU as a polity was doomed from day one. The only EU they ever expected to work was the common market. And it did work, quite well - for those who were not forced to buy.

>>18951313
how come there's 2 Slovakias?

>>18949795
Janez will save us

>>18951427
last column is not ordered properly, data is the same

>>18951313
Funny that Greece is also high in that list just as Brasil and multiple other failed states. Makes me ponder about the calculation methods used. But lets assume indeed that the Italian government spends the least of the world. Then you run a really really inefficient and ineffective outfit with such an absurd deficit. Might have to do with changing governments every 2 years.

In the end I think we all can agree that the Meds have a big problem right now which is enlarged by the Corona crisis. I hope we all get through this shit and we can get a efficient and peaceful prosperous Europe. I am just not a believer anymore.

Hey northern europeans, don't forget to pay up your taxes and work hard, i need to buy a new car from welfare payments

>>18951098
italian public sector is one of the smallest on eu
almost everyone is working in private companies or as self employed

>>18951215
OP meant "bullish financially" anon, not bullish in terms of Sharia.

>always do the opposite of what biz says

>>18951526
Short UK

>>18951510
Lel, in Italy we have a shitload of "private" companies that are owned by the State, I doubt those stats can be trusted

>>18948004
>Croatia
Croatia is like one of those shitcoins that just keeps breaking new lows, and you keep buying the dip and one day you're broke and you baghold forever

>>18949795
We have jack shit, and it's going to get twice as bad when we enter Eurozone
>You make 1eur = 10hrk
It's 7.5 HRK

>more eur influx from tourism
It's fucking dead m8

>thus this stimulates domestic economy
There is no domestic economy to speak of
The govt. survives from taxing the common man to death and crushing any entrepreneurial spirit in its roots

>>18951510
Then why is it all so shit? I don't mean that in a condescending way but I am curious how the Italian (or other Meds) look at it.

>>18951620
Because it is hard to believe. And no offence, Italy has a history of cooking the books (thats how they got in).

>>18951636
>The govt. survives from taxing the common man to death and crushing any entrepreneurial spirit in its roots
Is any EU country not like that though?

>>18948452
hei du bastard falls du es nicht mit bekommen hast germany is fucked
we are getting flooded with low iq migrants all rhe good germans leave germany this state will completly collapse in 10 - 20 years

>>18951480
>Makes me ponder about the calculation methods used.
there is only one way to calculate the primary surplus fucking brainlet, it means italian government is taxing more than what is spending
the remaining goes already into debt interests and THE ONLY FUCKING PROBLEM IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A CENTRAL BANK, BECAUSE ECB IS NOT MITIGATING SPECULATION ON GOVERNMENT BONDS
FUCK EUROZONE, FUCK ECB, IT SHOULD BE NUKED ASAP

WE DO NOT WANT ANY SINGLE CENT FROM NORTH EU, WE JUST WANT EUROZONE TO COLLAPSE AND GET OUR CENTRAL BANK BACK

AND PLEASE, ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT WE ALWAYS REPAID OUR DEBTS AND WE NEVER ASKED ANYONE FOR MONEY IN THE PAST (i also think debt mutualization is stupid and will overcomplicate things when eurozone will inevitably collapse, but debt monetization is necessary, following BoJ and FED example)

>>18951191
I unironically think we should make English into european common language. Now without UK nobody can say it would be biased

Always bearish on the UK baby

>>18951670
>Italy has a history of cooking the books (thats how they got in)
THIS IS BULLSHIT, IT'S JUST SOMETHING YOU ARE REPEATING LIKE A PUPPET WITHOUT KNOWING HISTORY AND DATA
i know very well how italy get in (Romano Prodi, a left wing eu puppet, and Helmut Kohl agreements)

>>18951703
Where are the 'good germans' going to anon?

>>18951671
Yes but it's usually in wealthy countries, not piss poor ones - that's for the taxing part

And for the entrepreneurial part, we are among the worst countries not only in the EU but on the entire planet when it comes to bureaucracy.
One of the most inefficient public sectors known to mankind.
Then the government corrupt to the core, 15 out of 20 ministers were removed or quit within a single 4 year term, one literally quit yesterday.

Literally no investments come here unlike most of other EE countries.

>>18951620
why are you so fucking retard?
IRI was dismantled long time ago
there is almost nothing left in the hands of public sector
they even privatized highways built with public money...

Now that we savaged Europe let's talk about a few European companies which are global leaders.

>>18951283
Meme.
Priced in.
Same as every other Western European country.

>>18948004
We , the portuguese, salute you kind sir

>>18951283
>Brexit
brexit was a blessing
>Muslim invasion
this sucks but eu is also filled with low iq niggers exploiting welfare...

>>18950134
And US

>>18951878
Shell, ASML, ING, KLM, Unilever, Ahold are some big international Dutch players (Ahold less). I think ASML has a bright future.

>>18949987
>The only thing keeping them alive is handouts from the Northerners
BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
list all these "handouts" one by one or
SHUT THE FUCK UP

>>18948740
>Sadly they have to carry the dead weight in the South on their backs like they did for the past two decades.
ignoring the fact that Italy is literally one of the biggest net contributor to EU balance
why do you keep fooling yourself with this non-sense propaganda?
you are just throwing random insults based on your overwhelming ignorance
where did you study italian about the situation? on a coffeshop, while smoking weed, with some construction worker or your barman?
go study or shut the fuck up

>>18947933
germany will unironically emerge as a new superpower from this crisis
>strong production base
>strong healthcare + gibs system
>disciplined citizens who follow Corona orders to a T
>highest standard of living
>incredibly based

>>18950097
>Russia
>Europe

>>18952525
>disciplined citizens

>>18952525
>disciplined citizens
So disciplined they face Mecca to pray 5 times per day.

>>18952236
If you focussed all that anger on working you wouldn't be in this mess.

>>18952477
Stop begging then if all is going so well. Why do you want us to give you eurobonds (for years now) if Italy is this bastion of proper spending and succes?

>>18949152
>Slovenia
>commie-tier taxation for everything else
If you're gonna live and work here, you're just gonna have to share it with your fellow Slovene. Altruism, selflessness and goodwill go a long way here

>>18951808
Not that anon but I moved to austria. Personally I think most germans are braindead bugpeople that only exist for routine and to serve the system. Rarely habe I encountered someone who seemed genuine or enlightened and not driven by mindless bullshit. Not to say that common austrians are any better in that regard but I kind of enjoy living in vienna. Maybe I also just have that sentiment because I hate football (((soccer))) with a passion.

Bullish: Norway, Finland, Denmark, Russia
Bearish: Everyone else

>>18949040
You realise the difference in the sizes of America and a European shithole, right? Imagine New York or California were independent nations, their "5th biggest economy haha durr lmao" shit would mean SQUAT

Long Netherlands, France, Denmark, Norway, Poland. Short everything else. Short 10000X leverage Italy, Portugal, Spain.

>>18952525
Biz IQ right here. Germany is the EU country that is most vulnerable to corona due to being entirely reliant on global trade.

>>18948577
What did you invest in? Been thinking about greece myself.

>>18947933
>Bullish: None
>Bearish: All

Simple as

Me and my wife (both in IT) are working in Russia right know. We're both French. Moscow is a heaven on earth in compare to Paris (in quality of work, ofcourse). No as good as NY, for sure. France is doomed, short it.

>>18948942
you are clearly mentally challenged. France and belgium have ridicilously high tax rates

>>18948942
Belgium always has issues forming a government. it is stable as fuck. nothing ever happens here. tard

>>18954811
I forgot to mention, that we got paid more just because we are foreign born. Russia is weird.

>>18954859
How do I get a job in Russia. I’m in Paris too and I hate this place.

>>18953512
>Stop begging
We never started
>Why do you want us to give you eurobonds
guess what? we don't want eurobonds >>18951729
>i also think debt mutualization is stupid and will overcomplicate things when eurozone will inevitably collapse, but debt monetization is necessary, following BoJ and FED example
mutualization (bad for everyone) != monetization (good for everyone)
only leftist eu puppets are begging for debt mutualization, vast majority of italians are against, but eu mafia is blackmailing every good nationalist government and overthrowing italian elections continuosly placing always the same puppets in power (social democrats are in full control of the parliament with 19% of votes)
>>18953482
fuck off, you should stop insulting people based on unfounded prejudices and copy-paste propaganda phrases

>>18948004
Short Portugal too, we can't into sound economics and we are highly dependent on tourism.

>>18954921
Algarve is already full with bookings, friend

>>18948071
They have Skoda and beer.
Not sure about much else.
Will say I dated a Czech girl and she was great. They have interesting views on sex. Very chill. Quite acceptable to fuck outside in some areas in Prague.
You know those videos of the dudes approaching women with a couple hundred euro and then they have sex outside? They're all filmed in Prague. You can tell by the stone tiling what area even a lot of the time. They're all fake too obviously.
The people have crap wages though. And there is a bit of a lazy attitude.

>>18948308
Fuck yeah. I'm Irish going on Erasmus to Finland next year.

>>18954835
actually it looks like it's the stablest when it doesn't have a government kek

>>18948308
>This means anything

>>18954897
Stop with the victim complex and pay your debts. You did this to yourself and you have been doing that since the 90's. Stop voting for shit politicians and stop blaming others for you situation.

>>18954897
No, the central bank should not keep buying Italian BBB (actually lower) bonds. It leads to ineffectieve allocation of wealth and will drag everybody down to that level.

>continuosly placing always the same puppets in power
Kek, that sounds familiar.

>guess what? we don't want eurobonds
Then why is your entire government and every ex politician whining on the internet about it? They even bought a 120k page in a German newspaper haha.
>Italy, it's been a while now since the crisis, maybe its a good idea to think about reforming your economy for the first time since the 70's
"No"
>Italy, you want money and we understand that, but you also have absurd gold reserves, maybe you could sell some of those
"No"
>Italy, you can use the fund we set up specifically for a situation like this. You can use that but as you know we have certain rules tied to it because we are not going to give you money without that. You still have a lot of debt and that would be political suicide for us as you didn't reform anything.
"No"
>Well Italy, since you have such a bad economy and are drowning in debt, we can give you a billion right now to mitigate the health problems.
"No"
>S-so what do you suggest?
"I want Eurobonds even though it will take months to years to set up such a system and by then the health crisis is over but our economy is even worse"
>So you want money - with no strings attached - to fix you economy after Corona because you ignored all the warnings and cries for reform?
"Yes"

>>18954921
unsure mano. I have the feeling this whole thing is going to be to tourism what the 2008 crisis was to the textile sector. The weak are culled and the stronger will emerge stronger than ever. Just a feeling though.

>>18955192
>reforming your economy
what do you mean exactly?
>national companies were all privatized in the 90
>infrastructures are all privatezed
>25 years of primary surplus
>public jobs cuts
>pension cuts and retirement age increased
>job protections basically non-existent
>healthcare cuts and privatization in progress
>deficit/pil spending always below 3%
what the fuck do you want more? blood? there is nothing left to squeeze
>No, the central bank should not keep buying Italian BBB (actually lower) bonds
lmao, it's literally the only thing that a central bank should do, why japan is injecting 1 trillion chunks in the economy, buying back gov bonds perpetually (debt monetization), yet inflation is basically zero and gov bonds interest rates are low? because the central bank sets default risk to zero
THIS IS UNIRONICALLY THE ONLY THING ECB SHOULD DO, OTHERWISE WE ARE OUT
and by the way, if italy defaults, deutsche bank becomes immediately insolvent and it will bring down not only germany, but eurozone and the world economy with it

>>18955192
>Stop with the victim complex and pay your debts
we always did it and we will continue to do so, faggot
and btw:
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1249089760720715780
i hope this eurozone insanity will be over asap

>>18955671
>Leave the EU, remain in the Eurozone: 7.5%
Why would anyone want that?

>>18947933
Dutchfag here. We're returning to normal because the number of daily cases are literally below 50 right now. Invest pls.

>>18955775
brainwashing by every single tv and newspaper (imagine brexit apocalyptic scenarios by NPCmedia propaganda and multiply it by 10)

>Bullish
UK
>Bearish
everyone else

>>18955885
It seems like the worst of all possible outcomes regardless of your political leanings.

>>18955985
we just need a fully working central bank and tax/bureaucracy cuts, that’s all

>>18956028
Cool it with the anti semetism.

>>18954921
We aren't that dependent actually friend

Or better yet, the south is. Northerners will do fine as always

>>18949500
Iq is the only thing England has going for it desu. The rest of Europe south of Germany are anywhere from slightly retarded(france) to barely above third world (Spain and Italy). Then you have eastern Europe where you can go from a 5/10 to a 8/10 just because you have half a bitcoin in your wallet. Unless you count the underclass in the UK most people are able to understand complex subjects unlike the "take it easy" subhumans on the continent

>>18956363
Lol England is completely full of retards and inbreds

>>18956363
How's that 14% contraction worst in 300 years going eh?

>>18956332
"the south" =/= Lisboa & Algarve. Most of the South sees 0 revenue from tourism.

>>18956363
To be fair if you compare most of northern Italy with anywhere else in Europe it doesn’t seem that 3rd world any more e.g. Milan vs anywhere in Germany

Short all of southern europe. Tourism plays a huge role in these economies and now it's basically over. Not just because of the virus but also because people will try to save a bit and live below their means for a while (if not - short everything). A lot of restaurants, small hotels etc will go bankrupt. Seasonal jobs are also a big thing. With travel still restricted it's not clear wheter western countries will get their annual slave labour from eastern europe.

Italy and France (short them too) run huge deficits and I don't think germans will want to self-sacrifice and bail them out.

Long Germany because of savings and stable fiscal policy(for now), although it's a high risk investment because the auto industry will suffer and might go down.

Definitely long Switzerland, maybe Finland and the Netherlands too.

Definitely short Norway now because of the price of oil, but might be worth longing them later on.

Not sure about Austria, I suppose they're fine for the most part.

>>18948796
I thought this was /biz/ not /pol/.
You seem to prioritize whiteness over money

>>18956807
because whiteness = wealth

>>18951636
>Croatia is like one of those shitcoins that just keeps breaking new lows, and you keep buying the dip and one day you're broke and you baghold forever
thats UK but its ripple

>>18956611
Yeah right, Germany is big on savings.
Idiot burger

>>18949129
Ah, en mann av kultur

>>18949186
>France, Germany and the Benelux countries mortgaging the future of Europe for their fantasies of humanitarian superpowerism
the hypocrisy of people who say this makes me laugh so much.

who do you think started and participated the libyan and syrian wars? who keeps promoting colonizing wars in the middle east and, ESPECIALLY, in africa? (and lets not forget obama, the nobel peace prize guy who bombed a shitload of countries and actually started those wars)

lemme tell you something: words are simply words. actions show much more than cheap discourses. and their actions show that they don't give a shit about being "humanitarian" in the first place.

>>18949346
>>18949376
don't mind the alternate /pol/ reality

>>18948308
>top 500 universities list
>published by a random chinese man

>>18952556
Go look at an atlas you neckbeard

>>18955671
Let me rephrase: stop taking to fucking much debt all the fucking time. Live within your means. I know you are a proud people and rightfully so, but you live beyond your means without an incentive to change. You just get another politician that rams his shoe in the EU bill and continue like you are the victim. Stop doing that and that a deep breath, look at yourself and the state of your economy and think for a second before pointing fingers at other people who do have their finances sorted out. It's not like it was easy for those other counties, they went through the dirt to get the buffer they have.

>>18957541
>Live within your means
We do and we have one of the lowest private debt (unlike dutchfags with yolo 30y mortgages and in debt for the next 2 generations)
I never had a single debt in my life
I will buy my house with cash, fuck mortgages, fuck loans
We don’t even want your help or your money, we just want to exit eu and eurozone and have a proper central banks that can do debt monetization like FED, BoJ, BoE, PBoC, you name it...
Everybody is doing it but retarded ECB...

>>18948792
>people fleeing the country
well, i'm from hungary (though i don't like to consider it eastern europe, cuz prior to the cold war we were part of the west, but many people do)

lived in a small town all my life expect for college years and always hated it, thought the only thing keeping me here is the lack of money.
then made over 5 million dollars implementing and running a crypto service in 2017. visited many places and lived in a few through 2018-19.

then just came back on a whim some months ago and now i feel like i'll probably never move away. i can't put it in words. yes hungary looks shitty in most statistics, and people here look noticeably more sad than people in most other places in the world.

but there's something about this place that feels better than anywhere else. could be just because i was born here, but i don't think so.

like, this absolute beta cuck way to compare countries
>>18949152
is a joke. it's all way too complex to put into words at all much less single sentences. you cannot explain why one place is better to live in than another, the factors are both too complex and too numerous, you can only have a feel for it. hungary feels like an awesome place to live in compared to most of the west.

>>18957541
again, stop shitting on italy without knowing actual data
we are not living "above our meaning", not at all
we are also strong savers, private wealth is pretty high in italy
kys faggot

>>18957541
now fuck off with your bullshit

>>18957920
Alright. Well evidently, if you want to exit the EU as more than a third world banana Republic, you may want to lower that debt. You ain't gonna do it by getting more debt with other Union members (which happens when the ECB repros your shit). So again the advise is to look at what you can do better to get rid of that enormous debt you are carrying around.

Start by not voting in another (actual criminal) Donald Trump like that madman Berlusconi. I like your current PM. He seems like a guy that sees beyond populism.

I've been messing around a bit but honestly, I wish all of Europe the best. We gotta break some eggs to reach that and we might need a deep recession to thrive again (I don't think the last recession was ever solved actually). I still think the concept of a united europe is nice but I fully agree that the bureaucracy like the ECB, With that dumb bitch Lagarde, fucks shit up by going far beyond its mandate. But monetizing debt is not a good way. It just leads to more ineffecieny in how we allocate wealth. The EU in general should take a step back and should stop meddling in our national governments. I am looking at you Timmermans. You fuck.

>>18948796
Ever wondered why immigrants do not want to move to eastern Europe?

>>18958279
>get rid of that enormous debt
the only way is debt monetization by ECB (again, like every single central bank in the world is doing) and ECB stating that all eurozone countries are risk free and cannot default. This simple statement will stop speculation on gov bonds (without ECB doing nothing in practice). The problem is not the debt ratio, but the actual interest rate.
The other way, by looking at numbers, is to have a gdp increase of +5% for 20 years and continue cutting on public healthcare and schooling system, which is (I hope you agree with me) insane
>I like your current PM.
he is a fucking snake (he is a lawyer), he systematically does the opposite of what he says
"populist" economists are unironically the smartest one btw
>But monetizing debt is not a good way. It just leads to more ineffecieny in how we allocate wealth.
wealth allocation is a meme, modern economy is more complex than a balance sheet on an excel document, we should stop looking at fiscal discipline, especially while ecb is giving away money at negative interest rates to corporates like Luis Vuitton but cannot do purchases on public sector on the primary markets. There is a giant moral hazard in that.
ECB was buying silently Daimler stock and saving their ass during the downturn but they cannot provide any warranty on eurozone nations?
Come on...
QE and airdrops for private banks are fine, but avoiding speculation on gov bonds is not?
Really?
>The EU in general should take a step back and should stop meddling in our national governments.
perfectly agree on this, but an exit is the only concrete solution
eu is just a giant non-sense bureaucratic dinosaur

>>18958249
>>18958205
Exactly. The Italian government should look at its own population in its search for cheap money. This is exactly my point. I'm not saying Italians are poor I'm saying Italy is poor... which it is. We pay taxes out the ass and thusly get far less of our wealth directly. We get it indirectly through good infrastructure (bridges not collapsing) but also through having a good balance sheet and perks like negative interest. Italians can buy a nicer car and house, good for you. We instead gave up education, Healthcare and pay 21 percent tax on any item we buy. And now comes the time that this all pays off...

In the mind of the Dutchman this is where the Italian comes in. We all know you are personally wealthier and of course envy that in a way. But the frugal fucks we are we settled for that cheap station wagon as it means we pay less fucking tax when we pay for the car with our heavily taxed money. We also pay much into the EU to see that money go to waste in an institution far less efficient than ours is. This hurts.

And this fucking guy, your PM and ex PM, on TV, who we didn't even know before, starts lecturing us about solidarity. Your government buys a 120k newspaper article to guilt the germans for WW2. Well fuck me.

Starts whining about us being dicks and how he should get money with no strings attached. We are bleeding money due to Corona as well, and he wants us to take part of his debt because he pays to much interest? We worked for that shit and some Guido on the other side of Europe has no right to it. Fire that up with images of your (second? ) last PM slamming his shoe on a financial document and Italians can get a big fuck you. That's the sentiment here and I kind of agree with that although it might be more complex.

>>18949441
>AHHHH NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST GO AGAINST THE KEYNESIAN BOOMER PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE

>>18958596
Taxes on company profits, employees and VAT are all higher in Italy than Netherland btw
>That's the sentiment here
but I agree with you, no dutch should ever pay a single cent for an Italian (and vice-versa), we are actually both net contributor in the EU and this is already something really wrong IMO (for both of us)
keep in mind that populist parties in italy are not asking for solidarity
instead eu leftist puppets are babycrying and are trying to use any kind of shitty fund (e.g. the ESM) which is basically just another stupid loan
we do not want ESM in first place, nobody wants it here in italy, but eu leftists want to activate it so that they can politically control italy with esm board memorandums once social democrats will loose the next election and right populist party will go to government (if we will be ever allowed to vote at this point...)
we had enough of these stupid eu puppets during the last 10 years
Berlusconi was unironically way better, he was funny sometimes, for sure, and he did several illegal things, fucking underage 17y girls and all kind of kinky stuff, but at least he knows how economy works, he know about real life companies problems, he founded Mediaset which is a very successful company
instead, all the last 10 years eu puppets at the gov are just brainwashed useless politicians with no real life job and no sense of reality and they just keep increasing fiscal pressure
150 thousand companies closed during the last 10 years, and 50 thousand at least will close because of covid

>>18947933
just short everything

>>18959167
True, Italy really didn't get a good deal out of the EU and got screwed numerous times. Italy was always difficult for the EU and that set some bad blood. Our politician have always kissed their asses on the other hand and that did get us more perks in some regards, but cost the Netherlands and many other counties a bit of dignity.