/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>18919280
Paolo?

>>18919280

2013 fag here.

TA is meaningless. Your bullshit chart predicts neither up or down movement.

>>18919280
way too many reasons to be bullish on btc/crypto lately. it's gonna happen isn't it.

>>18919374
>>18919280
i really hope it goes up

If doubles we going to 100k by 2021

>>18919344
>TA is meaningless
>Your bullshit chart predicts neither up or down movement.
How can these both be true?
Maybe you just don't know how to read a chart?
Sad if true

>>18919450
if doubles we going to 1m by 2020

>>18919280
I thought you fell for the tranny propaganda and kys tho

>>18919280
Coronachan just gave us all a decent buy in.
Ironic.

>>18919468
if doubles btc will be 1k by june and 90% of the fucking shitcoins will be wiped

>>18919498
kek just doesnt care anymore. but incase he does. UBT 1k EOY

>>18919460
They are both true because TA Predicts nothing,
Logical Brainlet

>>18919498
kek is crab chad now. he doesn't deliver digits to bobo nor mumu

If doubles bitcoin will hover around 5000-9000 for eternity

>>18919280
are you telling me i'm about to get liquidated?

>>18919280
What are your thoughts on pic related?

>>18919344
please retard
if btc breaks that huge downward trendline, that is a big deal. It has held down the price for 2 years.

>>18919553

this x3 ;)

charts cant predict the future but they can show trends. the current trend is bullish as fuck with potential to pop off big time in the next 2-3 days. giant potential gains by tuesday if this thing goes.

no bs anons, this could be the big one. within a month we could be looking at a new ATH.

if you were ever going to do buy some BTC, its now or never. if you do, hodl! if you dont, be prepared to cry about not having SOME. pick up some on cashapp if thats all you got. dont miss out on this. potential major BTC happening underway. there are no guarantees but this has huge fuckin potential.

>>18919553
>It has held down the price for 2 years.

Yes, an imaginary memeline is what's held BTC down, not terrible optimization, dying mining network, absolute dearth of public interest, and introduction of vastly superior alternatives.

>>18919872
Literally everything you just said that are fud are all things that have improved. Anyway none of it matters anyway because we all know the real killer app of block chain is getting rich

>>18919872
Yet somehow it follows the line perfectly, it’s called a trend line faggot, clue is in the fucking name.
That said I see no reason why it would suddenly pop out now, it’s gonna crab more.

>>18919280
That’s a man!

>>18919280
The interesting part is that the triangle comes to a point roughly around election day, which is also when the 2016 breakout into the bullrun started.

It could also signal a shift in the stock market, much like what happened on election night in 2016. Futs were down hard, and then when it was determined Trump had it in the bag, the 3 year rally began.

>>18919924
The halving coinciding with election years is the most brilliant marketing satoshi did. It puts btc in the spotlight when everyone is feeling the most cynical about our country. Imagine if Bitcoin is big enough this year to be a topic of the debates. If not this election then for sure it will be the next one. 4 year hype cycle is so fucking genius

>>18919344
>Your bullshit chart predicts neither up or down movement.
if it can't predict up or down, then just take the opposite trade from TA fags and win every time.

>>18919520
if dubs we crab for the entire year ahead

>>18920102
if dubs mumu is in control for life

BTC pumps to 20k by July and brings every other shitcoin up along for the ride

>>18919993
I doubt it will be much of a topic this year, just like it wasn't in 2016, because it would need to actually make new highs to get major media attention beyond the occasional mention on CNBC. Doubt it does...more likely the rally peters out at a point of maximum indecision and confusion: 10600. Just above the 2019/2020 new year rally, and significantly above the upper trendline, but not enough to signal all-in. Then it will splat back to the bottom trendline, taunting and fucking with everyone between 6k and 9k until the election.

I expect a similar story with the stock market. No big dump, no new highs, just crab city until october/november...then it begins the dump to SPX 1500, while bitcoin diverges upward thanks to the $7-12 trillion the Fed will have printed, combined with shortage-driven inflation.

The irony will be that Bitcoin may very well reach $1 million a year or two later, but it will be because the dollar becomes so debased and the stock market crashes 80-90 percent.

And that will be when Hillary bans all unapproved crypto except corporatecrypto and Fedcoin.

BTC $1,000,000 EOtomorrow

>>18919905

Based god

>>18920261

it will be near 20k eoy

>>18919536
>>18919498
>>18919468
>>18919450

>>18920333

check em fags, kek has spoken.

extremely poor person with a computer here, is it worth it to make a wallet if I can only buy 20-50 USD worth?

op here
gee I love sucking cocks

>>18920333
Checked
But it's going to be more like 50k

>>18920380
Is 400-1000 USD in a couple years worth it to you?

>>18920380

I mean, in 10-20 years that could be worth 5k

So not really. Just keep it on an exchange or an app wallet. Try to accumulate as much capital as you can in the next couple months and put it in Bitcoin. (Eventually you can just make a paper wallet if you want to be secure.) If you miss this run, you'll have one more decent shot at it in the 2024-25 run-up. Bitcoin will likely bottom out this cycle in early 2023. The ideal time to buy will be shortly before the next halving is one year away, so probably around April-May 2023.

Keep your eyes peeled and follow the halving charts.

>>18920333

Checked and respekt

>>18920540
if I didn't have to do anything to earn it, I don't see why it wouldn't be?
>>18920542
so bitcoin is only worth it if you can buy in large volume? I see.
Well lets say I put in the 20 dollars because I did, what would be the path to maybe making that work for me at least somewhat?
I don't really know anything about anything, so if I could turn that 20 into 50, then the 50 into stocks or something, or maybe into a more secure option down the road for a return..?

https://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/

decides to check halving countdown randomly

4 days 20 hours based 42

btc will dump and stabalize below $2k. it has zero entrinstic value.

>>18920656

You aren't going to become rich off 20 dollars man. Sorry. If you had bought Bitcoin when it was pennies at the very beginning, yes. But those days are long gone. And most traders lose miserably, so don't even bother with that.

Your best option is to make as much money as you can working and continue slowly accumulating BTC. Ether is another good play, but again, 20 bucks alone ain't gonna do it for ya.

I hate saying this. I know what it feels like to miss out. I knew about Bitcoin in 2011 but I thought it was too much of a pain to buy and would never take off. Oops.

It absolutely is worth buying Bitcoin in small amounts though -- just treat it as a retirement account. You will see massive gains even with small sums of money, but you'll have to wait a decade or two. If you continue to trickle cash into BTC over time, you'll likely end up with more than the average person ever has. (If every millionaire on the planet wanted one Bitcoin, they couldn't each have one.) Now is an excellent time to start. Bitcoin is the ultimate savings vehicle.

>>18919280
>so called "old fag"
>charting on Coinbase chart
>tracing arbitrary lines that means nothing
>this is the big one

>>18919553

No, retard, no memelikes are holding the prices. only actual demand.

>>18920920
Yeah I wish I had gotten on bitcoin back then too. Infuriating to think about. I was really young and thought it was too hard, and that putting even a little bit of money in was stupid, now I hear about people who put in 100 bucks and became millionaires.
Oh well, that sucks. It seems that being poor is inescapable, thanks though.

>>18920925
ring....ring....ring

>>18919280

You’re having a heart attack?

>>18920953
ur right, it just so happens to keep getting rejected at a certain identifiable trendline. dumb fag its called technicals

>>18919911
kek

>>18920962
Very very few people put in 100 and held till they were millionaires, most of those cases are people that forgot they had it and managed to find their wallet after years. Majority of those people simply lost their coins or sold their 100 dollar investment at 1000 and were happy as fuck about that. Nobody thought it would do a 1000x.
Just stack sats and NEVER sell. You're still ahead of 99% of the world. We are going to 1mil per coin

it will get rejected and dump just like every other time

you retards will never get rich quick from this greater fool game

>>18921023

no, retard, smoke from a pipe does not cause a steam-engine to move.

backward reinterpretations is not a valid method of analysis.

trends are memes. bots do not care about treads

>>18921075
why do you think that? how could it ever reach so much value?

>>18920925
shoo shoo newie

>>18920656
Put $30 into bitcoin or whatever and go get a college degree. You’ll make more money with that then $30 in bitcoin. I have 7k in btc and that feels like nothing to me. Not even a full bitcoin. If I had more money I would throw more into it. If you really only have $30 free dollars than you need an education/a better job.

>>18921285
I finished my degree in Feb.
I am just a broke student who entered the job market with no experience at the start of an economy halting pandemic. I may kill myself soon.

>>18921075
This. I sold my first bitcoin at $800. I haven’t owned a full one since, but now with my entire profile in btc I’m at least at .75. It’s still early. Bitcoin is literally the best performing asset ever. $0.0006 to $9.2k. Still room to grow since there’s a finite supply.

>On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward
https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~arvindn/publications/mining_CCS.pdf
The most in-depth paper written on bitcoin EVER
Princeton university

>Beyond the doomsday
economics of “proof-of work” in cryptocurrencies
Monetary and Economic Department
https://www.bis.org/publ/work765.pdf

"Second, the transaction market cannot generate an adequate level of
“mining” income via fees as users free-ride on the fees of other transactions in a block and in the
subsequent blockchain. Instead, newly minted bitcoins, known as block rewards, have made up the bulk
of mining income to date. Looking ahead, these two limitations imply that liquidity is set to fall dramatically
as these block rewards are phased out. Simple calculations suggest that once block rewards are zero, it
could take months before a Bitcoin payment is final, unless new technologies are deployed to speed up
payment finality. Second-layer solutions such as the Lightning Network might help, but the only
fundamental remedy would be to depart from proof-of-work, which would probably require some form
of social coordination or institutionalisation."

>>18921308
No. Don’t kill your self. Just work out and keep looking for jobs and get that covid check. Eventually you’ll have a good job and wife and be so happy you didn’t kill your self. You can’t change the past, but you can change the future.

>>18919374
most important is the rapid mainstreaming of digital currency. it's suddenly over the past year become an openly discussed option for banks, international finance, governments, etc. even two years ago this was not even remotely the case.

the use case for bitcoin becomes clear to the dolts once they consider a world where numerous other digital currencies are in use. that's when things get fun.

>>18921271
OP should I fomo in now? Or wait til the halving if there is a dump

>>18921087
>bots do not care about treads
Maybe the shape of their algorithms are revealed in the trend lines, ever think about that?

>>18921369
>fundamental remedy would be to depart from proof-of-work, which would probably require some form of social coordination or institutionalisation
Meanwhile in Eth...

>>18921259
Its a black hole for money. There is nothing on Earth you can invest in with strict scarcity. Stock valuations are absurd with massive p/e ratios, housing is unaffordable, central banks can dump gold and silver on the market the second they start gaining real value relative to fiat. There is literally nowhere else to put your money. The 4 year hype cycle of Bitcoin is a built in viral marketing meme that brings more people in each time and drives the price higher. This is a global game of musical chairs with only 21 million seats. It is only a matter of time before global reserve currency status isn't a joke anymore.

Think about that stupid ass popeyes chicken sandwich people were literally stabbing each other over. Think about people getting trampled over shitty tvs on black friday. Think about toilet paper nowhere to be found. Then realize Bitcoin still hasn't had that global fomo yet with people literally murdering each other trying to get it. Imagine how you will feel when you've already secured your position.

>>18921462

Absolutely based and redpilled. We're all gonna make it.

>>18920346
if singles we dump to 2k

>>18920920
Honestly, what does money even matter? There is no other chance becoming rich than crypto actually. You can save up, put it into stocks and maybe get a 100% gain over a long time. But you'll never get to millions with stocks except if you put in thousands of dollars each month.
Crypto is your best bet with a relatively small investment in a shorter time. Crypto is new technology and the future. You will see adoption and you can become crazy rich. Also, loosing a couple of thousand dollars in crypto doesn't hurt as much as knowing you missed out

>>18921462
I didn't think of it that way, true.
Would 1,000 USD over the next few years be a good goal to put into it?

>>18921462
Houses are expensive if you're poor. If a bank holds gold, why wouldn't they want the price to go up?

>>18921462
yeah this shit scares me, which is why i dont tell people i own it

>>18921500
Pwned fag

>>18921500
bullrun confirmed

>>18921500

>>18921462
There are way fewer people buying now than in 2017. Stop lying to fit your moonboi agenda. Volume is super low right now

>>18919840
Here's your sell signal

>>18921511
Stack sats, NEVER SELL. Resist the temptation to trade. Just buy small amounts. "Hodl" is cringy as fuck but it is not a meme. Imagine if you sell at 100k hoping to buy the bottom and we rocket to 300k after that, and the next bottom is 150k. You just fucked up and lost a significant portion of your position. Don't listen to faggots trying to call the top and bottom. Think of it like a retirement account you don't touch for 20 years and just keep putting small amounts in. Forget about daily volatility. This shit has the power to transform society. Fix the money and you fix the world. Focus on the higher purpose so that when society is rebuilt around sound money you will be one of the strong handed gods to help reshape our world.

We're all going to make it if we stick together

>>18921617
“Impact on Bitcoin security. If any of the deviant mining strategies we explore were to be deployed, the impact on Bitcoin’s security would be serious. At best, the block chain will have a significant fraction of stale or orphaned blocks due to constant forks, making 51% attacks much easier and increasing the transaction confirmation time. At worst, consensus will break down due to block withholding or increasingly aggressive undercutting. This suggests a fundamental rethinking of the role of block rewards in cryptocurrency design. Nakamoto appears to have viewed the block reward as a necessary but temporary evil to achieve an initial allocation of bitcoins in the absence of a central authority, with the transaction fee regime being the ideal, inflation-free steady state of the system. But our work shows that incentivizing compliant miner behavior in the transaction fee regime is a significantly more daunting task than in the block reward regime.”

>>18921594
Fuck you weak bitch. You will get eaten

>>18919280
Governments will sale at 10k and crash this shit

>>18921624
Thats only true if you are a big blocker brainlet. Bitcoin has ~7% fee to subsidy ratio right now which is way better than the shitforks. Keeping competition over getting into a block is what generates fees to secure the network. You cannot secure the 21 million cap without competition over block space

>>18920333
>>18920346
>>18921500
he has spoken

Analysis. We proceed now with an analysis of the rewards obtained in the transaction fee model by a selfish miner. Parts will look similar to the analysis done in [9]. For every infinitesimally small transaction fee that arrives, we wish to compute the probability that it winds up in a block mined by the selfish miner. Note that if the selfish miner just used default mining instead, this probability would be exactly α. The determining factor in this probability will be the size of the selfish miner’s private chain. To this end, let’s define the following states (same states used in [9]), and we’ll compute this probability separately for each state. • State 0: Everyone agrees on the longest chain — Racingm H = false. • State i > 0: The selfish miner m has a private chain of length i — Privatem = H + i. • State 00 : There are competing blocks of height H, one of which was produced by the selfish miner, and the selfish miner has no private blocks — Racingm H = true and Privatem = H. Let fs denote the probability that a transaction winds up in a block mined by the selfish miner in the eventual longest chain, conditioned on the system being in state s when the transaction is announced. We compute there probabilities below. If we then define ps to be the probability that the system is in state s, we can then observe that the expected fraction of transaction fees claimed by the selfish miner is exactly

The equation that kills bitcoin

P s fs · ps. Eyal and Sirer [9] have already computed ps for all s. The values for ps are:

p0 = 1 − 2α 2α3 − 4α2 + 1 p00 = (1 − α)(α − 2α 2 ) 2α3 − 4α2 + 1 pi = ( α 1 − α ) i−1 α − 2α 2 2α3 − 4α2 + 1 , i > 0 To complete the analysis, we just need to compute fs for each s. Appendix E contains the derivation of fs for all s, which are stated below: f0 = α 2 + α(1 − α) (α + γ(1 − α)). f00 = α. f1 = α + (1 − α)α = α(2 − α). fi = 1 − ((1 − α) i−1 (1 − f0)). Finally, when α ∈ (0, .5) and γ ∈ [0, 1], we show in the Appendix E that the selfish miner’s rewards are given by Reward(α, γ) = 5α 2 − 12α 3 + 9α 4 − 2α 5 + γ(α − 4α 2 + 6α 3 − 5α 4 + 2α 5 ) 2α3 − 4α2 + 1

>>18921727
Guarantee you don't understand this. Think for yourself instead of copy pasting some lazy professors research.
Limited block space creates competition and that generates fees. Fees preserve the hard cap and pay miners. Simple as that, Bitcoin is already working

We have argued that deviant mining strategies in a transactionfee regime could hurt the stability of Bitcoin mining and
harm the ecosystem. In a block chain with constant forks
caused by undercutting, an attacker’s effective hash power
is magnified because he will always mine to extend his own
blocks whereas other miners are not unified. This would
make a “51%” attack possible with much less than 51% of
the hash power.
Many other unanticipated side-effects may arise. In the
block size debate, it is frequently argued or assumed that
space in the block chain will be a scarce resource and a
market will emerge, with users being able to speed up the
confirmation of a transaction by paying a sufficiently large
transaction fee. But if miners intentionally “leave money on
the table” when solving blocks, as is the case in undercutting
attacks, it breaks this assumption. That is because undercutting miners are not looking to maximize the transaction
fee that they can claim, and don’t have a strong reason to
prioritize a transaction with a high fee.9 Put another way,
the block size imposes a constraint on the total size of transactions in a block and the threat of being undercut imposes
another constraint on the total fee. The two interact in
complex ways. We believe that qualitatively our results will
continue to hold in a world where the available block size is
much smaller than the demand, but quantitatively the impact of undercutting will be mitigated (see end of Section
3.1). Still, it is an important direction for future research to
understand this connection more rigorously.
Despite the variety of our results, we believe we have only
scratched the surface of what can go wrong in a transactionfee regime. To wit: we have not presented an analysis of
miners whose strategy space includes both undercutting and
selfish mining, primarily due to the complexity of the resulting models.

>>18921762
Dumbest paragraph yet. Why would miners deliberately leave money on the table and select transactions with small fees. They invested millions into hardware, they are not going to confirm low fees. This retarded assumption invalidates their entire conclusion. Like I said, think for yourself and look past the bullshit equations to look smart in a paper

>>18921825
“SELFISH MINING WITH TRANSACTION FEES: Selfish mining is a deviant strategy first identified by Eyal and Sirer [9]. Essentially, a selfish miner chooses not to release blocks immediately upon being found, instead withholding them in hopes of tricking the rest of the network into wasting their mining power mining blocks that will be orphaned. We find that the selfish mining strategy performs even better in the transaction fees model than the block-reward model. A priori, there’s no reason to expect this. In this section we provide simulation results, along with some intuition and a theoretical analysis proving this. Essentially what winds up happening is that while the selfish miner mines the same fraction of blocks in either reward model, the selfish miner’s blocks will tend to be larger. In the block-reward model, this doesn’t matter because all blocks are worth the same, but in the transaction fees model this means the selfish miner gets greater reward.”

When block rewards are gone, the whole game changes

>>18921462

bitcoin already had this hype craze you are describing buddy. coinbase was the #1 app on the apple store for a week or two consecutively. literal street shitters in india know about bitcoin. the market is saturated and institutions aren't falling for the ponzi. the halving doesn't matter if bitcoin doesn't have underlying utility or value and not even everyone who is bullish on it will tell you the same answer when asked what the purpose of the coin is

the corn is way overvalued at this point in time

>>18921715
>>18921727
>>18921762
Cringe
>>18921755
>>18921825
Based and checked

If doubles, BTC dominance is 80%, and LINK flips ETH

Now let’s consider what happens in the transaction fee model, where transaction fees arrive continuously at a rate of 1 per
time unit. Miners will always turn off their rigs (/coin-hop) immediately after a block is found, because the instantaneous
expected reward of running a rig is 0, but the cost is non-zero. If the current effective hash power in the network is c rigs
worth, then the miner needs to wait until x = cp transaction fees have arrived in order for mining to be profitable.
Now, assuming that miners are cleverly turning their rigs on and off at the right times, how many rigs must be in the
network in order to attain an effective hash power of c? The rigs are all off for cp units of time, and then all k of them are
turned on, and the expected time to find a block is 1 unit of time. This means that the expected time to find a block with all
k units running must be 1 − cp (due to difficulty adjustment), whereas the expected time to find a block with c units running
is 1 (because the effective hash power is c). Finally, we observe that for a fixed difficulty, if x denotes the number of rigs
running, and yx denotes the expected time for x rigs to find a block, then x1 · yx1 = x2 · yx2
for all possible number of rigs
x1, x2. Together, this yields the following equation:
k · (1 − cp) = c · 1
k =
c
1 − cp
.

In the transaction fees model, to obtain an x
fraction of the maximum possible effective hash power, a multiplicative blow-up of 1
1−x
rigs are necessary.
Recall that in the fixed-reward model, no blow-up is necessary

>>18919420
i too, know the pain of having whiskey dick

>>18919280
>bitcoin

Stay poor fag

>>18919280
buying bitcoin is a total normie trade
as it's a ponzi it's not a good thing

>>18921462

Jews won't allow BTC to become the reserve currency. They'll just ban its use for transactions in their host nations and require their own fedcoin.

>>18922039
great, now let them enforce the ban. KYS, blackpiller.

>>18922039
nobody has to ban btc to prevent its use for transactions, it's not like it's being used

>>18921825
poorfag again, is coinbase okay to use?

>>18922051

What's the point of it being 1m/BTC if you can't even buy shit with it other than darkweb markets? I wish it would become a mainstream currency, but it's just a dream in my view. I think ETH has a lot more going for it, since it's not a direct threat to fiat and they're drooling at the bit for all the savings various dapps could potentially offer one day.

>>18919460
Are you retarded?

>>18922104
there's no point, it's a decentralized ponzi scheme. It's never going to be anything else.

>>18922104
you'll be able to buy any other currency you wish to utilize for your purchase, numbskull.

buy at the cost of mining and sell at double price. Repeat. No risk, almost free money. The only thing you need is time and the money for investment.

>>18921500

btfo

>>18920656

What you want are promising new projects that have a large upward potential. You should take a look at orion protocol I think. It's the new project by the maker of Waves dex.

>>18921500
praise him

I look at the chart and think about what Bogdanoff is going to do to prevent me from getting rich. He's going to make it go a little up and down for a while in a crab walk to test my endurance. I could start the Bitcoin moon right now by selling everything.

>>18919840
go back to tiktok or whatever shit forum you're from

>>18922039
This is such a brainlet tier narrative. The majority of BTC is held by so few individuals that "they" could just target these whales and invalidate this meme threat within a few days

>>18921505
There is another chance that I am working on right now.
You can build a website, buy visitors and do Affiliate marketing.
Top affiliates are earning 1m+ per year in the porn sector, for example.
You have to find a niche where there's less competition.
But crypto is the easiest way to make money, just buy and hold.

>>18919280
kek what's that y axis scale?

>>18923386
>You have to find a niche where there's less competition.
Porn had no competition in the 2000 years many fags got rich out off it
selling their websites
you can't make money of porn affiliate