/biz/ - Business & Finance

Is this a joke? I have an airbnb and I'm not expecting shit, I literally had to move in here now otherwise i'd just be paying bills for no reason.

Instead of buying my first house, I bought a house that would make a higher yield as a rental/airbnb, that makes me disgusting?

People buy properties based on rental yields that they can get from people who want to rent them. If it wasnt for private landlords you would be either living in your own home that you bought, or in some sort of council concrete project building alternative

>>18629967
saint landlord arrived

>>18629967
>. If it wasnt for private landlords you would be either living in your own home that you bought
supply and demand, cant buy a home that isnt for sale because people like you hoard property you don't need crunching the supply making prices higher than they would be. youre a drain on society and rent seeking is a cancer on the economy

>>18629967
>landlord's investment falls
>where are my fucking GIBS? How can the government ALLOW THIS? I'm going to be financially RUINED!

>stock trader's investment falls
>hehe get fukt wallstreet

>>18630012
You see there are these people called builders, and they increase supply in line with demand. In theory if there was less houses needed, houses could be even more expensive due to the lack of scale.

There is a cost to building a house and even on the most worthless land, the price of building said house makes it expensive.

Also most investors like myself buy piece of shit ugly houses, and spend their hard earned money turning it into something great.

I just bought a piece of shit house for 120k, I'm spending 200k on turning it into a really nice house, which will bring the street up and make it a nicer place to live.

>>18630060
No landlords are getting bailed out you dumbfag, landlords especially where I am in the UK get zero benefits, Landlords litterally get no help, they are in a grey area as they are neither seen as businesses or as general self employed people who lost business.

>>18629967
>Instead of buying my first house, I bought a house that would make a higher yield as a rental/airbnb, that makes me disgusting?
yes

I get that you all hate paying rent, I did too, that is the sole reason I chose to buy property.

As kanye says "I'd rather be the dick than the swallower"

Simple, you could buy a nice new house like my friends did, and make the payments yourself from your job. OR you could buy a cheaper house with higher yeild, maybe one you can do some work on yourself, if done right the rent can cover your mortgage and extra, then you save and use any profits from rent towards the next etc etc

>>18629506
landlords are scum. sit around and do nothing at all and demand free money. most entitled people in the world.

if everybody could ONLY have houses to live there would be derelict houses everywhere, it is only for profit risk taking individuals that would renovate them, and alot of landlords actually lose money and the investment isn't even that great.

You really have to run a tight ship to make a profit, most properties in the uk wont rent out for much more than the mortgage payment

>>18629967
based lord

>>18629506
Good

fuck em. fuck landlords fuck airbnb hosts.

>Airbnb hosts thinking they're not scum of the earth

lmao

>>18629506
over 90% of Airbnb's operate illegally.

not paying local taxes, not paying for rental insurance, not mortgaged as a rental property, not licensed, not paying state and fed taxes

now they expect us to pay them for a business they profited off of and denied?
Fuck them.
They're lucky they haven't been shut down and their property auctioned yet. That's what's going to happen. It's what the fed does to tax evaders.

>>18629506
I can't believe I thought about being a landlord a few years ago, then it dawned on me, I don't want to be an overleveraged boomer POS

>>18630060
Every real estate cycle people learn what it means to be overleveraged. Its just hilarious all these real estate sites promote maxing leverage. Makes me want to biggerpockets and drink the tears.

>>18630307
Free money? it is rent, if you wanted to rent a JCB digger for the day, would you say the person who owns the JCB that he is scum also?

A rental agreement basically means you are buying the right to live in their property, how tf is that free when landlords have mortgages energy bills etc, that little bit left over of profit is what they earn being the long term owner. As a renter you can decide actually you don't like the house and move out next year, the landlord is tied, you don't have to tie your money in the house. You might have 100k in the bank but you may have better uses for it like running a business etc.

>>18630358
Why are renos so ugly most of the time? Beige walls instead of white plastic vinyl fake wood floors, plastic countertops, super low sink heights, etc. Do they really expect people to live like this or is it some kind of dysergonomic philosophy? I want a crash so I can buy cheap, gut the place, and renovate with human centric building for people who aren't midgets with no taste.

>>18629967
Bro you got baited. These landlord threads are made and frequented by two people.
>Poorfags
>Entitled commie cunts
Neither one of them will ever own real estate. Who cares about a random post on 4chins?

>>18630446
>it is rent
>Has an Airbnb

If you were a real rental landlord maybe people would give you some leeway, but you're literally the worst kind of landlord there is. Holding up potential places for people to live, assisting in driving up rent prices so you can do four day rentals for vacationers

In summary, property is one of the most surefire low risk ways to get rich, you can get rich faster through other ways, however my mindset is that I am not going to get old and be middle class or poor, I will definitely be rich by the time I'm 50. Then once that is set in place I can start to look at businesses and try and to it faster. You just need something concrete, nothing is scarier than the possibility of getting old and realising you had all these years to slowly build and compound your wealth but you just kept wittling it away on shiny objects.

>>18630358
>if everybody could ONLY have houses to live there would be derelict houses everywhere
yes

>>18629967
he based

>>18629967
>the economy is so bad I had to move in to the house I bought

>>18630510

Because its designed to make the place look nice but still being cheap to overhaul and not worry about how long any of it holds up because they want to sell immediately

>>18630510
well the genreal idea is to make a nice blank canvas eg, I might love superman wallpaper or purple paint, but it's not likely to be liked by the masses who are viewing it.

in general if you are doing it up to live in or sell on, you go all out granite countertops as it adds value. If you are doing it up to rent, most renters wont appreciate it or pay you much extra than if it was imitation or wooden countertop, also If they fuck it up you wont be getting it back. Renters don't like paying deposits and so you really don't want to be putting stuff in there that can be broken. Generally you make it a nice clean canvas ( I personally use white and some tastefull bits of gray, navy and yellow, I hate that magnolia colour, only boomers still think that color is nice) and you let the tenants make it their own with decorations etc

>>18630646
kekerino

>>18630568
Not really, I allow families a nice place to visit and have cooking etc instead of a hotel. the alternative to my 8 bed airbnb is to book 4 double bed hotel rooms. Bnb and holiday homes have been a thing since the beginning of time you idiot

>>18630729
>Bnb and holiday homes have been a thing since the beginning of time you idiot

And Airbnb made them a mass market thing

>>18630144
fucking lol landlords overwhelming don't build shit
kill yourself

>>18630729
listen to this self-justifying faggot lol

>>18629506
I find this just about as infuriating as the mega-corps somehow siphoning away like 70% of the small business emergency fund.

I want the housing crash to happen just as much as anyone else here, but I sadly don't think it will happen. What will happen is all the banks will take their foreclosure property off the market, slowly drip-feeding it back in, in order to artificially lower supply and keep the prices up. Then you have all the chinks who will swoop in and buy up everything anyway before it goes down. And finally, there are hordes of irrational boomers who would rather starve to death on principle and HODL until they die of old age rather than see "muh investment" go for less than the ridiculous price they think it's worth.

>>18629967
>Instead of buying my first house, I bought a house that would make a higher yield as a rental/airbnb, that makes me disgusting?
YES

>>18629967
just read all your posts and i cant believe how delusional you are. crazy how you think youre doing so much for society.

>>18629506
GOOD.
Fuck landlords and fuck those in particular that buy up property specifically to use it as an Airbnb.
Those with wealth buy up housing to rent it out, driving up the price of housing.
The government imports millions of 3rd worlders, driving down wages and driving up house prices.
Fuck this system. I want to to collapse and I want a new Hitler to sweep this fucking filth away.

If I had to choose a side I guess I'm team landlord. Sure they overcharge but at least they provide a service. Rent seekers are useless always expecting free homes, like dude what value do you provide except complaining not everyone is serving your free housing demands

>>18630766
I renovate houses that are un-livable and rent them out, and I rent them out because there is demand, specifically the one I'm doing is near a hospital and so I am creating needed accommodation for healthcare workers.

Builders are part of the property industry idiot, and by builders i meant developers and investors building new houses to sell or rent, and I am in partnership with a builder on my projects 50/50

all landlord parasites should get the rope

>>18629967
cry more noselstein

Nobody on /biz/ knows what rent seeking means. It does not mean profiting off rental income. There are landlords who are rent seekers but you are not a rent seeker simply for being a landlord. Demanding your tenants pay the rent they agreed to pay when they signed their lease is not rent seeking. Changing zoning laws to restrict the supply of housing so you can charge higher rent due to lower supply you created by manipulating local government is rent seeking. Lobbying Congress to pass tax credits on rental property ownership so you can afford to buy more rental property is rent seeking.

>>18630965
>Sure they overcharge but at least they provide a service. Rent seekers are useless always expecting free homes, like dude what value do you provide except complaining not everyone is serving your free housing demands

They could afford to buy homes if the landlords/speculators didn't jack up the prices because they see housing as an investment.

Notice that this doesn't happen in consumer electronics and with food. They become outdated or perish, the are deflationary markets and therefore become more affordable and oriented to people who USE them. Nobody goes around buying warehouses of computers and potato chips to sell later, because their value is nearly entirely in utility. I wouldn't give a shit if the value of my computer dropped to $0, because it still works and I can use it.

Housing is totally fucked though. Most normal people wouldn't care if the value of their homes plummeted, because they still LIVE IN A FUCKING HOUSE. Retard speculators on the other hand have every interest in keeping this essential utility as high as possible. So they lobby for retarded laws, and get cheap loans to bid it up forever because "housing always increases".

>>18631089
There are different definitions of rent. The classical economic definition would include most landlords' majority of income.

Ok my last post here hope some of you learned something, only inteligent people can see things from both sides and then come to a final descision.

You are all fucking idiots, shilling your shitcoins even though it has crashed and showing no signs of a bull run for the next 2-5 years.
A large majority of the wealthiest people on earth have made it through property and the art of leverage, creating value and a positive return that is greater than the cost of money.

Hope you enjoy being 50 year old virgins and eating chicken nuggies in your mums basement because you refuse to touch property.

>>18630965
OK I'll bite

You misrepresented the argument in 2 ways:

1 Most aren't demanding free housing, just housing at true market value - everything being done on an institutional level to inflate prices is the result of a corrupted system

2 Rent seekers are the land owners, not the renters.

>>18631089
that's literally why biz is so fun

pack of drooling morons that lucked into some great wealth by being drooling morons

>>18631140
Reddit spacing fuck off faggot

>>18631125
2nd this

>>18630965
you don't know what rent-seeking means.

>>18631140
I'll give you proper respect if you show me you bought with a second-home or investment property mortgage, pay rental insurance rather than homeowner, have a business license, and pay your local, state, and federal taxes as a business.

otherwise you're trash in the opinion of both your customer base and your supposed peers.

>>18631049
>self-justifying bullshit
you are bad for the economy
kill yourself

>>18631125
Rent seeking means you are changing/supporting laws or social norms to personally profit. You don't have to be a landlord to do that, though there certainly are landlords who are rent seekers. Plenty of boomer homeowners (who are living in their house and not renting it out) are rent seekers who artificially inflate their house's value by voting for laws/zoning policies that prevent higher density housing and new housing construction.

>>18629506
>airbnb 'hosts'
I'd rather Pic Related got a bailout before these guppy cunts. Fester in hell, you bankrupt cumstains

>>18630144
>You see there are these people called builders, and they increase supply in line with demand
ah yes, the commodity that we can just produce more of in response to demand: real estate

I for one am enjoying my pocket dimension house

>>18631140
>>18631189
there's nothing wrong with running a legal business for profit

but you see, you should probably be in jail. There's a good chance you will be.

because you're probably not running a legal business. So everyone hates you. The establishment hates you for not playing by their rules and the counterculture hates you for trying.

educate yourself and firm up your legal compliance or the government will take you down.

>>18631189

was going to go but ill rise back to this bait. I bought first with cash, then refinanced on business loan (holiday lets are business not buy to let), I have businesses set up: 1 for my property management and lettings, 1 for holding my property, 1 is a joint venture company 50/50 with the builder, I used the proceeds from the refinance to fund purchase and the builder is matching it to fund construction.

Everything I have done is 'high end', the airbnb is arguably the nicest place to stay in the whole town, and the second development is studio apartments for hospital workers, all decked out with the best fixtures and fittings.

Everything is done properly with an accountant and a lawyer. The ONLY way you should do this business is clean and by the book, theres alot of slum lords out there but I intend to scale up onto bigger things and so you need a nice solid track record, and all my properties are finished to a standard I would be more than happy to live in.

If you skimp on little things like it is stereotypical of shitty landlords it doesn't work out in the long run, the shady shit you see is almost always because the owner can't afford to do things properly

>>18631273
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rent-seeking

Definition 1.
Rent-seekers under that definition probably promote the other one to try to take the spotlight off of them.

>>18631053

>>18631362
ok, so you're the 1% of short term rental owners.

if that's the case then hold your head high, you're the elite out of all the scum on a very scummy pond. But as long as it's legal you can't go wrong.

>>18631362
also for the record-

if you're telling the truth you can sue other landlords that break the law for unfair business practices and take their property from them in court. You probably should.

or just report their violations and let the state eat them.

>>18630144
Brainlet moment. Nice dubs tho

>>18630358
Do you know how much of the population is homeless or forced to rent, purely because of chinks and middle aged white women buying off entire lots, and driving prices to ridiculous levels. Owning a house is cheaper than fucking rent, in some states. You go to california, it costs $300k max to buy a house. Renting a single room is 2k a month. It's exploitation in the worst possible way, and you cunts get away with it purely because you sell a basic necessity. We are entering a dangerous age now though. When the civil wars start, its landlords who will be the first raped and killed.

>>18631574
the irony is after the revolution is over all you lazy fucks will succumb to the malaise and eventual failure that inevitably results from NOT PAYING SOMEONE TO MAKE YOU WORK.

rich people hire personal trainers. You pay your landlord. Both provide the same service

These threads are great. Every buisiness as having the piss taken out of it, but oh the landlords even get a sniff of the idea that the piss may be taken from them? REEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I rent my finished basement, its a do fuck all income source lets be real. I fix the toilet every 6 months or call a repair man to fuck with the heat. Then I have a real job.

You know what I didn't do? Take out a fuck load of loans and act like I'm "providing a valuable service to the public." Get cucked over leveraged retards. I can't wait to snap up a cheap second property courtesy of you land shits and rent it out while not owing the bank a dime. Get fucked. Your fault you basically bought a car that can only go 60 mph and must do so for 30 years and shackled yourself to it. Should've planned. See you on zillow bitches.

>>18631574
if there were more landlords rents would be cheaper, less landlords rent would be higher. Landlords don't and can't set rent prices, rent prices are set by what a renter will pay for it, the fact that tenants move in is because they deemed it acceptable rent.

>>18629506
i dont think they are but i want it to crash so i become one
and yes hot chicks can pay with sex

>>18629506
>airbnb hosting is considered a "business"
i hope all these faggots kill themselves. If you can't buy properties for cash to do this shit (as in you take out multiple mortgages to finance your """airbnb empire""") then you deserve to die.

>>18629506
Has anybody had to cut back on tipping their landlord? I used to go with a 20% tip, but have had to cut back to 5% and I feel kind of bad...

>>18629967
>If it wasnt for private landlords you would be either living in your own home that you bought,


OH WOW WE COULD BUY HOMES IF LANDLORDS DIDN'T JACK THE PRICES UP, WHO KNEW

/biz/ is a funny place. Praises money making, anons always wondering how they can be successfull, or how to profit from news events, trends or even catastrophes "how can I profit from X", hates being wageslaved, sees people who accept the 9-5 till retirement as cucks and boomers. But then property, probably one of the best and least shady vehicles to acheive all of these goals among other things is somehow seen as this evil thing.

>>18631812
fuck you dude. just rent barely pays mortgage, I have to eat and travel to vietnam 4x/year too

>>18631833
landlords don't jack prices up, learn some basic economics of supply and demand, Zoning, building restrictions, population increases, the growth and popularity of dense city living brings the prices up.

>>18631854
Because it is shady, land lords do fuck all and jack rent prices up
>renters wouldn’t pay it if it was to high
Bullshit because there is no free market in renting when you can’t buy a place so you’re forced to rent and because everyone and their brother is playing the same game as you are rents are through the roof costing more than 50% of the average incomes of the area meaning those people will never be able to buy. Hope you default soon faggot

>>18631279
This. FUCK the boomer financialization of the housing market.

my question is how will this work with hyperinflation and rent control

sure the market tanks in a year and cheap rents will be available in the city, but will there also be massive hyperiflation keeping rents at high dollar numbers?

>>18631882
m8, landlors drive demand up by buying houses/apartments that could otherwise be bought by the general public.

>>18630297
>As kanye says "I'd rather be the dick than the swallower"
or you could do something better than that and help society without having to justify your fake moral bullshit

>>18632069
landlords engage in arbitrage by taking something you can't afford in whole and selling it to you in fractions you can afford.

if you want to get mad about that rage at the credit bureaus that decided you can't afford it or your own self for being so bad with money/employment.

>>18632133
do you faggot really think everyone has or wants to buy with credit? do you not realize it is landlors the group that drives people up? if it weren't for them, more people would be able to buy in general, and, in particular, more people would also be able to pay in cash, bypassing banks.

>>18632237
>drives people up
*prices

>>18630144
REDDIT

>>18632133
Nah fuck off. They gobble up limited resources and inflate the price. They are a direct detriment to the success of our nation, by exploiting young families. There is no general economic benefit to this parasitic behavior. With unstable employment situations where even upper middle professionals are expected to move across the country at a moment's notice, it is especially terrible. Opening our real estate market to foreign investors is the most insane part of it all. This is the kind of thing that leads to bloody revolutions. Vanilla libertarianism will never work and could not stand against a power like China

>>18632237
depends what you do.

most people don't make enough in 15 years to pay for a house even if they didn't have to pay for food and housing that whole time.

so I guess for entitled shits like you that live with their parents it might be feasible, but make no mistake,
YOUR PARENTS BOUGHT THAT HOUSE, YOU DIDN'T.

because you can't afford shit.

>>18632373
>They gobble up limited resources and inflate the price.
maybe where you live

where I live you can easily build a house for less than it costs to buy one because resources aren't actually limited

>>18632069
You have alot to learn anon, also landlords are the general public you retard. The general public are not all renters, most landlords are just normal people that happen to have a second property.

What you are saying is basically the same as me saying, oh gee I wish nobody in the world would buy Lamborghinis so that they would be forced to sell me one for cheapies.

>The Airbnb 'landlord' in this thread who's still pissy people think he's complete scum

>>18630198
Same in Australia. I own a house there. Currently vacant, thank fuck. It'll stay vacant until the country comes to its senses.

>>18632443
>normal people that happen to have a second property
He said without a shred of irony when the vast majority of the american public doesn’t have $400 savings

>>18632498
>the vast majority of the american public doesn’t have $400 savings
The vast majority are also not homeless. Learn to brain.

>>18632443
i leave the water and heat on full blast wile i rent airbnbs

>>18629506
Guys I bought the top

What the fuck am I gonna do with 3 houses I can't afford wtf

>>18632443
A modest home shouldn't be a luxury item like a Lamborghini. Bad comparison.

>>18629967
>Instead of buying my first house, I bought a house that would make a higher yield as a rental/airbnb, that makes me disgusting?
very much so yes.

>>18632498
Turn off CNN, most sensible people who got a job, didnt make stupid descisions bought and can buy a house by the age of 30-35 unless you live in NYC, london or similar, in that case it makes sense to rent in those cities AND USE THE MONEY TO BUY A RENTAL INSTEAD

>>18632607
>got a job, didnt make stupid descisions bought and can buy a house by the age of 30-35
Cool. So when do they buy the second house in this utopia world of yours where hard work and smart decisions always are rewarded?

>>18630830
FUG

>>18632443
>lamborghini
>shitbox apartment in a city where the jobs are

Pick one you wilfully disingenuous fuck, good pilpul though

>>18632399
lol, I already bought half a house with my parents (as a quick way to get my own place to live and as a gift to them), and will have enough money for my own shit in a couple of years. guess why? because of my effort and intelligence. landlors can't even pronounce those words correctly..

>>18632443
>You have alot to learn anon
>The general public are not all renters
from https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr-edge-frm-asst-sec-061118.html
> According to data from the 2015 American Housing Survey, there are nearly 48.5 million rental units in the United States, 43.9 million of which are occupied. The 2015 Rental Housing Finance Survey (RHFS) shows that these units are in 22.5 million properties. The RHFS identifies two primary types of ownership:
>Individual investors. About 22.7 million units in 16.7 million properties are owned by individual investors. Individual investors are more likely to own single-family and duplex rental homes. We often describe these investors as “mom and pop” landlords.
>Business entities. The remaining 25.8 million units are owned by businesses, primarily limited partnerships, limited liability companies, and limited liability partnerships. Businesses are more likely to own the multifamily rental inventory.
>According to publicly available IRS Statistics of Income data, approximately 10.6 million taxpayers (7.1 percent of all 1040 filers) declared rental income in 2015 for 17.7 million properties — a finding similar to the 16.7 million properties that the RHFS reports for this group. Based on these data, I estimate that in the United States there are between 10 million and 11 million individual investor landlords managing an average of two units each, many with just one unit.
so yes, at least 15% of the US population have to pay rent to a lower number of landlors. you tell me, isn't that number outrageous to you?

>>18632679
>lol, I already bought half a house with my parents (as a quick way to get my own place to live and as a gift to them),
I know buddy.

I'm getting ready to cosign for my oldest kid's first house and saving up for my second son's

I fear we'll have the same problems that we did when we let you live at home and paid for your college.

if everyone does it, it's not an advantage.

I hope I'm wrong, but so far you guys haven't benefitted for shit from our wealth because we all have it and you're all getting it. No inequality. there is no lower or upper class.

>>18632739
>and you're all getting it.
lmao the amount of money that the boomer generation alone holds eclipses all other generations combined

I do believe landlords, or any type of speculation, have an effect of increased volatility and increased prices, though the long-term effect of increased prices is negligible unless there are monopolistic forces involved.

The main issue at play is that houses are too expensive - and I think that everyone agrees on this point. People who use real estate as an investment are concerned that the system is unsustainable and may collapse while they are holding, people who are renting are torn between every year paying significant portions of their earnings for something with no long-term value to them, with the knowledge that those payments will in all probability increase - or instead putting up vast amounts of capital, and taking on significant risk. There are places in the country where it is cheaper to buy than to rent, even with financing, and places where it is cheaper to rent than to buy.

The core issue that need redress is the price - and why are the prices so high?
One reason is purely demand. California will always have a demand advantage over Minnesota due to intrinsic properties like location and weather - and as places become relatively more desirable they will become porportionally more expensive purely as a function of population. And population is increasing, due to births, and due to immigration. Immigration plays a very large role here.

One other reason in cost to produce. California has very high prices in part due to their regulations on production. It is relatively expensive to meet the requirements of production, and any imposed regulation will of course raise the price.
In the case of California, regulation regarding supply itself plays a key role. LA does not have many skyscrapers intentionally, the inhabitants and powers that be did not want to emulate the cramped verticality of the east coast, resulting in the massive sprawl you see today.

>>18629506
good, fuck airbnb and people that are buying up tons of houses and driving up real estate prices so they can charge $300 a night for you to stay there. almost as bad as time shares.

>>18629967
Landlords will be the first ones lynched in the streets when the uprising begins in minecraft.

>>18632237
>>18632679
>>18632739
btw, I'm not in the US, which is why I was able to buy a house. even then, prices have gone 200%+ up in the last 10 years here in my country...

>>18630830
You are right about everything you say, but there are still going to be people selling because they anticipate a dip. And there aren’t buyers. This forces people to lower the price. As this happens, it will cause a rush of people to sell. Many people that foreclose will move in with family and this will reduce the demand for houses significantly.

>>18632850
us isn't impossible or anything

the requirements are actually pretty low here. But NEET's will never qualify.

>>18630521
Don't forget that these people vote. Soon enough, we'll end up with a super regulated housing market where landlords can barely make any profits just like EU
California rent control is just the beginning

>>18632815

Today it is still hard to build vertically in California, and now that there is no longer much open land to develop additional sprawl, this puts a heavy constraint on supply. Zoning and permittance laws also play a role, as does the land owned or controlled by state, federal, or private interests. LA recently pushed for a massive increase in housing, and yet, because of their own laws and regulation, was unable to make any progress. In that case, the entire system must be reformed.

So too must it be reformed across the country. One element to this is debt. The vast majority of individuals, whether families or corporations, do not buy real estate for the 'purchase price' - they finance it for much higher real prices - this naturally must transfer to the prices. What's more, this incentivizes leverage and over-leverage, and results in perilous systems prone to catastrophic failure. When that failure emerges, international financial interests and the government buy off this bad debt to prevent the economy from worsening - this merely pawns off the problem of debt and the associated interest to larger institutional concerns, and in fact directly translates to our money supply itself.

The simple fact of the matter is that the system is untenable - just like how government finance is untenable, just as if you ask any one in /smg/ whether the stock market is 'healthy from a long-term perspective' they would certainly say no.

What we truly need to fix housing is to free the American people to work in their best interests to secure housing, and to let them decide this on as small a scale as possible for themselves and their communities, and do not provide corrupt incentives to these communities. That itself would fix many of the problems regarding speculation and supply.

However, the fundamental equation of housing is that sufficient housing is enough housing for a given population - what we really must decide for this country to have long-term sustainable..

>>18631854
Rent increases are mostly not due to the effort of the landowner but due to the community around the land. Property is a finite resource and increases in value due to the activity of other individuals. You do not add value to an economy and "high end" rentals are just consumption

>>18632940
...housing is to allow the people of the country to have some control over the population of the country - right now immigration is out of the hands of the American citizens, and is frankly now a function of international financial interests that treat our country as nothing more than an economic territory.

Some people are fine living in skyline condos, others are not satisfied without acres per individual - and these are both valid, these people should have the opportunity to make these decisions for themselves and to congregate in like-minded communities for their mutual best interests.

No housing solution is sustainable in the long term without providing the people of the country control over who lives here and who their neighbors are. If people in the LA area want clear views to the beach they should have the ability to choose this for themselves - right now whether we live in affordable neighborhoods or commie-block tenements is increasingly up to those international financial interests which have stripped this country of its nationhood and sovereignty.

>>18631140
>no signs of a bull run
Someone missed the ARPA bottom

>>18632679
you are so intelligent because you bought a house with your parents?

The second part is just all waffle, the US is made up of many multifamily apartment complexes, these places are built to be rented out due to the fact these investment companies churn these out and flood the market with supply, these should be renter's friends as supply keeps prices low. Most people if they really want can buy a house, like I said, the ones who save, work a fair paying job 40hrs a week. the descision to rent is not forced, it is a choice for many due to the increase in globalism, everybody travels more, people don't want to commit to a particular city, people want flexibility, alot of renters are renters by choice.

I will own you retards all day, I know my shit when it comes to property in both the UK and in the US. I was a real estate broker in NYC and now I am a lettings agent and developer in the UK. Stop acting like landlords are stealing from you or pushing you down and keeping you from success, most of the time it is your own beliefs that are holding you all back.

As rents go up you simply need to move to a cheaper area if you can't afford. There are people in New York all the time complaining they are getting priced out. YES OF COURSE YOU ARE, you are living and cockroaching 20 minutes away from the business capital of the world and you expect prices to be low so you can work a supermarket job whilst there are bankers, consultants, programmers etc all wanting that same apartment

>>18629967
solid bait, you've done this before

>>18632849
Landlords already getting lynched in the streets basically, being a landlord is like basically telling people you are scrooge. but thats just because people don't actually get what it involves

>>18633023
Landlords deserve death desu

>>18633039
Hate to break it to you, but pretty much all of your favourite actors, musicians celebrities all own portfolios of property which they rent out for profit and sit on for gains

>>18633075
I dont worship people on the tv screen. Like i said. Landlords deserve the rope

>>18633005
man, you are retarded. the fact that landlors own those properties means someone else (for example, a renter) couldn't, and considering the high (and growing) demand, and low supply (as per http://www.freddiemac.com/research/insight/20181205_major_challenge_to_u.s._housing_supply.page?)), prices go up. yet there are enough properties to be sold to the same people that are paying rent (i.e., as yourself said so here >>18630297, paying someone else's mortgages). you aren't doing those people a service, you are leeching off them. stop trying to twist your justification with some fake moral bullshit. FUCK YOU.

>>18633134
And do you really think the fans of those celebrities will let you rope them? They'll rope you instead dumbfduck.

>>18630965
>rent seeker
either you're a jew or a retard

>>18633134
And do you really think the fans of those celebrities will let you rope them? They'll rope you instead dumbfuck.

>>18633209
You're assuming the seller NEEDS to sell and will drop their price quickly if the property doesn't sell

this is almost never true.

>>18633209
let me say it louder BUILDING NEW RENTALS LOWERS PRICE OF EXISTING RENTALS.

MOST NEW HIGHRISE BUILDINGS ARE OWNED IN WHOLE BUY LARGE INVESTMENT COMPANIES AS BUILD TO RENT.

AN INDIVIDUAL WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO BUILD AN APARTMENT BLOCK ON HIS OWN WITHOUT SOME SORT OF LEVERAGE AND EQUITY FORM INVESTORS.

PRICES GO UP FROM INREASED DEMAND, SUPPLY CONSTRAINTS ARE MAINLY FROM ZONING AND BUILDING RESTRICTIONS.

HOUSE PRICES RISING ARE GENERALLY GOOD FOR THE HEALTH OF THE ECONOMY AND YOU DON'T NEED TO ACTUALLY OWN A HOUSE ANYWAY

OFTEN TIMES IT MAKES BETTER FINANCIAL SENSE TO RENT VS OWN PROPERTY

>>18630830
I hope it doesnt crash because I dont want another generation ofnbraindead fuckhead boomers

>>18629967
>Instead of buying my first house, I bought a house that would make a higher yield as a rental/airbnb, that makes me disgusting?
yes you dumb fuck you're raising the price of housing for people who would actually get real use out of the house.

>>18631927
Dude are you seriously 12? You sound like a fucking retard

I fucking love roasting leftie retards on here, when it comes to economical or business issues their reasoning is almost always completely wrong and based upon some sort of "well if everyone just did/didnt do X", well you can't just change and force unrealistic shit on people without it making sense on paper.

"if we just took money from all the richest people and spread it"

"if there was just no landlords and everyone could only buy one house per family"

dumbasses and they always have they always think they have the moral high ground even though their suggestion would fuck the world up more than it would benefit

>>18632935
Good. "private ownership" of land for the sole purpose of extracting rent is evil

I can't wait until all these landlord contact my law office to evict these scumbag tenants.

They may think their tendies are safe after they get their asses thrown out, but forgot that I can garnish their bank account

>>18633330
I have laid out my logical arguments for why you are wrong earlier, now i"m just going to say suck my fat juicy landlord cock

>>18633330
>get real use out of the house.
Except tenants do get real use out of the house

>>18633371
>reddit spacing

>>18633388
COMES NOW the Landlord, by and through his undersigned attorney, and states as follows:
1. That at all times material herein, the Plaintiff is and was authorized to do business in the State of ______, as______________________ in______________________ County, _____.(name)
2. This is an action to evict a tenant from real property in______________________ County, ________.
3. The Plaintiff owns the following described real property in said county: ______________________.
4. The Defendant, ______________________, (has, have) possession of______________________ under a (written,* oral) agreement to pay rent of $____________ per month payable on the first day of each and every month beginning on ______________________.
5. The Defendant has failed to pay the rent for the month of ______________________.
6. Plaintiff served Defendant with a notice to pay rent or vacate the premises on ____________, but Defendant refuses to do either. A copy of said notice is attached to Plaintiff’s complaint and is incorporated herein.
WHEREFORE plaintiff demands judgment for possession of the property against the defendant, and other relief the Court deems proper.

Pay up wagies

>>18633371

But it is realistic we can just kill landlords like mao did and boom the whole country would be lifted out of poverty

>>18633005
>cockroaching in the business capitol of the world

Meanwhile you leech the value of this economic activity by doing nothing but pricing out potential buyers and performing minimal upkeep. Die faggot

>>18633388
>>18633438

Wagie wagie, did you not read your lease? You are liable for your landlord's attorneys' fees

$500 an hour attorneys' fees

>>18633449
The government in UK litterally gives you 20% towards your deposit in UK and so you only need 5% which they also boost your contributions towards. meaning you can buy a brand new build house with only around 20k, yet cucks are on here complaining

>>18633295
>BUILDING NEW RENTALS LOWERS PRICE OF EXISTING RENTALS.
that depends on demand. with such low supply, there is no way it would lower anything. also, most landlords don't build for shit.

>MOST NEW HIGHRISE BUILDINGS ARE OWNED IN WHOLE BUY LARGE INVESTMENT COMPANIES AS BUILD TO RENT.
>AN INDIVIDUAL WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO BUILD AN APARTMENT BLOCK ON HIS OWN WITHOUT SOME SORT OF LEVERAGE AND EQUITY FORM INVESTORS.
so? doesn't make it less scummy.
also, ironically, these companies help more than you. and I bet they have lower profit margins, too.


>PRICES GO UP FROM INREASED DEMAND, SUPPLY CONSTRAINTS ARE MAINLY FROM ZONING AND BUILDING RESTRICTIONS.
yeah, and those restrictions are sometimes pushed by... landlords and companies, and the politicians they control.

>HOUSE PRICES RISING ARE GENERALLY GOOD FOR THE HEALTH OF THE ECONOMY AND YOU DON'T NEED TO ACTUALLY OWN A HOUSE ANYWAY
yeah m8, I'm better off helping yoy pay your mortgage, amirite
also
>what happened in 2008?

>OFTEN TIMES IT MAKES BETTER FINANCIAL SENSE TO RENT VS OWN PROPERTY
sure, but this is a far smaller amount of people than those renting because they don't have other options.

>>18633455
I dont own a property in NYC but I wish I did. Nobody is a potential Buyer in NYC unless they have serious cash, I'm on about people renting and complaining about high rent, well if they move 15 minutes further from the city they can live in the same standard of housing but for alot cheaper. And they don't need to be close to wall ST if they work at a supermarket in queens

>>18633559
>15 minutes further from the city

And realistically another hour and a half to two of commute time

>>18633503
Ok you are just clutching at straws now and you are missing the point, the point is that the existence or increase of landlords does not increase your prices and rents.

>What happened in 2008
This is the exact reason people don't absolutely need to,and perhaps shouldn't own a house, it is a large investment and landlords (should be) proffessional investors, where as timmy the first time buyer just put his life savings on a deposit for the largest purchase of his life because he likes the kitchen, to find out his house has now lost 50% in value and he lost all the deposit and is now in negative equity.

Meanwhile joe the renter next door had to pay 100$ a month more than timmy paid for his mortgage and bills but still has all his savings whilst his evil landlord just took a huge financial haircut

>>18633559
At least you ultimately understand your status as a leech. You produce nothing of value.

>>18633672
>Ok you are just clutching at straws now and you are missing the point, the point is that the existence or increase of landlords does not increase your prices and rents.

>>18633672
>the point is that the existence or increase of landlords does not increase your prices and rents.
Then what does?

>>18633733
a house is shit, has no use for housing anybody, nobody has money to fix it up or wants to take risk on it.

>Le me
>fix it up
>using my own money
>risk it doesn't go to plan
>risk of market turn
>risk of unexpected costs and negative return

>Property is fixed and back on the market for habitation
>housing supply +1
>if goes well 10-20% profit from money and time spend on effort
>rents it out to happy tenant impressed with house compared to old current housing stock available.
>me feeling good

Goes to 4chan
>die
>leach
>evil

>>18629506

Just went to airbnb_hosts on reddit. The butthurt is absolutely sublime.

>>18633857
Risk=/=Productive.

I don't give a shit about risks. Bank robbers take risks too.

>>18630729
Wow evil AND a faggot. Good job.

>>18633848
supply restriction, in UK it's the greenbelt and lack of vertical building, In US it's zoning laws. In real estate developers always balance out demand, if housing prices rise above the cost of building then builders build, the increase of new houses reduces prices, prices fall due to overbuilding and now builders stop because it is not profitable anymore. Untill prices rise again and so the cycle repeats

>>18633857
If you actually fix the house, then that part is productive. Why don't you sell it instead of renting it out?

>>18630144
>just build houses bro
>end up with miles upon miles of suburban sprawl
>diminishing returns as people have to commute for hours to get to work
We hit peak population density in the 90's, now we have to choose between living hours away from anything interesting or living in bug housing.

>>18629506
Literal parasites

>>18633892
Yes it is because it is a risk that somebody has to undertake and there are no governments that will do it, quality of housing stock relies on people continually renovation and bringing aging stock upto standard

>>18633918
Why is an empty lot worth so much in NYC? Who built the land?

>>18633927
Well then the problem is having kids, not landlords, people need to live somewhere and so it doesn't matter if those living there rent or own. yes people will have to either sprawl out or live more vertically there are only two options

>>18633942
Read my post. Just because it's a risk isn't a justification. Lot's of immoral practices entail risk.

>>18633857
Wow congrats on sprucing up some shithole with linoleum and used appliances. I will cede you're willing to take on risk but in general rental owners are massively over-leveraged and put risk on the taxpayer (2008) while simultaneously passively extracting value. I absolutely love how much autofellatio you've been performing for the rest of us here. Good show

>>18633920
Depends on the yield, if I can refinance 75% of my money back out and I like the property I can keep it, or I could sell it if the market is good and I need all the money back

>>18633975
YES it requires compensation for risk. Nobody is going to voluntarily give their money away and incur a loss to renovate a house if there is no incentive, the house will just be derelict for eternity. The fact there is profit in the first place in buying these ugly places is because nobody will buy them as they are so ugly and nobody wants to touch them.

You need to have a certain expertise also to be able to look at a building's structural issues etc and accurately know how much it could cost to complete. In this budgeting process you normally give yourself a 20% room for profit minimum, if all goes well you make 20%, but if you fuck up you could end up losing the 20% profit and end up losing money, which happens alot of the time

>>18631763
Every house owned by a landlord is a house that isn't owned by a prospective renter. Landlording makes it's own demand. I'm quite convinced that the demand created is greater than the supply created by an additional landlord entering the market, since rentals incentivize individualized rather than family living, and so we will see a continual trend until everything is owned by landlords.

>>18629506
AirBnBs are so profitable that you only need to operate 4 months a year to pay a mortgage. If you don’t have enough cash to float you for at least a year, you are dumb as fuck.

t. Host

>>18634082
Why should you be compensated for risk? Risk for risk's sake is worth nothing. I can go swim with crocodiles, which is risky, but produces nothing. And I won't (and shouldn't) be paid for it.

>The fact there is profit in the first place in buying these ugly places is because nobody will buy them as they are so ugly and nobody wants to touch them.

No, because people can't afford them across the board. You know who would gladly take on these risks of buying houses and fixing things up if landlords didn't buy them and they were at lower prices? People who need to LIVE IN A HOUSE.

>>18634177
Yes the trend is towards renting, generation rent, housing prices are higher, but the thing is that you don't need to buy a house, theres nothing shamefull, in a lot of ways it is better to rent. It is definitely better to rent in the UK unless you buy good deals. The average house in the uk, even in shitty areas does not yield more than 7-8% gross rental yeild, most are around 5%, which means on a 4% mortgage plus maintenance, you actually lose money each month from renting at the moment. the only solution is to buy cheap, or buy something and renovate it and so your yeild is higher as you paid less, most people dont want to do this and so renting is better

>>18634257
>in a lot of ways it is better to rent
Really? Do you personally rent?

>>18629967
You bought a RESIDENTIAL house not for the purpose of living in it.
Houses are not commercial properties, you fucking kike. You and your lot are what's driving the housing prices up and I hope you starve to death.

>>18634254
No that isn't how it works.
To renovate a house that is in disrepair normally it's best to buy it outright as nobody will lend on it at a low cost, then also you need cash to pay for renovation, and so lots of cash is needed unless you are more sophisticated and can use leverage.

VS

you get a 25% deposit and buy a house

These deals are only suitable for investors or those with money, thats just how it works, either you use your own money, pool money, or partner with someone who has money but you can't do it for free and never will be able to

>>18634290
I personally rent my own home because I have no idea where I want to end up living and I also know as I earn more I will want to move to different places. I own investments that pay me rent, which I then use towards paying my own rent.

>>18634320
all houses are commercial, your point is? It's a free country anyone can buy whatever they want if they have the money to buy it. If I'm bad then so is the seller for taking my money and selling it for such an evil use, he was sure happy to be able to sell in a market that has nice demand from buyers and be able to move into his next house

>>18634428
all houses are Residential** otherwise it is not a house

>>18634428
>free country means i can kike it up all i want
you'd fit right in with chinks.

Well I wasted a good few hours of my time here schooling you fags /biz/ never change

>>18634428
I just hope the bubble pops and you're left holding the bag. Please Jesus allmighty lord smite this lecherous money changer in your names sake amen

>>18632492
>country comes to its senses and nationalises long term unused RE
topkek

>>18634354
I know it's not how it currently works. If enough people want to though we can vote and change how it works. The way it currently works is bad.

Introduce a land-value tax and replace the income tax in place of the profits from those renting out to people who actually live and work on the land.