/biz/ - Business & Finance

That's a man

>>18536863
I agree anon
Stocks are a better option for safe long term gains, way better than ‘crypto coins’

>>18536863
I bet you like finguhzznyazzz

>>18536863
I really don't understand why you guys invest in companies. There's a new one every few months. Can you imagine if there's a new version of the Amazon coming out every quarter? And you can't use it without doing a few trades, and when you do you have FOMO of spending it because price is so volatile. It's not a company, it's a MLM disguised as a "company".

Naysayer when public stock trading was in its infancy:

"I really don't understand why you guys invest in companies. There's a new one every few months. Can you imagine if there's a new IPO coming out every quarter? And you can't liquidate it without doing a few trades, and when you do you have FOMO of spending it because price is so volatile. It's not money, it's a MLM disguised as "ownership."

>>18536863

>crypto currencies
>denominated in USD

Really makes me think

Lol I gotta start hitting that fucken refresh

>>18537018
>>18536984
Except companies are real, they exist and produce a good.

>>18536863
I guess you missed the part where people that bought bitcoin and ethereum when it was .25 are fucking rolling now. Or Link when it was .17. This is a dumb fucking question. Investing isn't for you. I think there is a /knitting you can join.

>girl: *exists*
>me: BRUHHHHH TFW NO GF FUUUUUUCK

Relatable check?

>>18536863
because is not a game for pussies

>>18537343
back to twitter check

Bad b8 m8

>>18537564
>>18537504
>>18537242
Please explain where cryptocurrency derive their value from except from people thinking it's valuable.
>inb4 it's the same case with regular currency!
no it's not

>>18536984
False equivalency. Companies produce something and they make sense to invest in as they are able to use that capital to reinvest and grow, or pay out shareholders. Currencies are supposed to be relatively stable. I understand that even Euros, Pounds, and Dollars have exchange rates but they are more or less stable. Crypto is extremely volatile and it's exchange rate with something like the USD can be jump all over the place in a matter of weeks, days, hours, even minutes.
Crypto is dumb and by people holding onto it there is an artificial demand of it. Thats why FIAT currencies use inflation, the idea is that if you just hold onto it indefinitely it actually becomes less valuable and not more.
Coca Cola is still going to be selling bottles of coke whether you pay for it with BTC, Link, USD, Euros, or Yuan. Id rather hold the company that makes the product you need than one of the ever growing number of cryptos you use to buy it which just gets exchanged into an actual currency anyway.

>>18537710
except it is
you cannot do anything with a dollar bill
with gold you can create electronics, with diamonds tools
USD value is the collective sentiment behind it

>>18537794
Please refer to this anon to educate yourself >>18537788

>>18537815
Yea that doesn't refute or even relate to my point at all but ok thanks boomer

>>18537710
Most crytpocuredncies will fail because you cannot use them to purchase goods and services. However, there are certain exceptions. For example, you cannot access Chainlink node services without purchasing with LINK tokens. You cannot move LINK tokens around without buying ETH. You cannot utilize ODL without XRP tokens.

>>18536984
>business are the same as money

>>18537794
>you cannot do anything with a dollar bill
wrong. you can pay taxes with it. you can pay dollar denominated debt with it. can you take out loans with crypto? no.

there is literally nothing guaranteeing that bitcoin or any other shitcoin does not go to 0.

>>18537943
>can you take out loans with crypto? no.

LMAO you know nothing

Companies are as "real" as cypto. A lot of "companies" are just some branches of real companies that want to try something new or basically want to launder some money, so they create these new companies to do it. 90% of the shops and businesses around the world are open to bankrupt just to get insurance money. This is how business works, the aim is to make money, not to be successful, because being successful doesn't feed you, money does.

While crypto is indeed highly risky, it is arguable to say it is more stable than companies, or "companies". There is also no saying where these coins are heading. Despite several "experts" saying and predicting, it's just guessing. These "experts" invest mostly in stocks because they have some intel that give some kind of guarantee, while crypto does not, you have some random fucks posting tweets here and there but that's about it.

>>18537989
>take out a """loan""" in crypto
>use it to do? (nothing except speculate on other crypto)
nice one dumbass

>>18537710
>>18537710
If you cant fifure it out then just stick to boomer tech stocks

>>18538011
>owning a revenue stream is the same as owning a currency whose only way of gaining value is by bringing in bigger fools
okay retard

>>18538021
ETH collaterized loans can get money directly in your bank account dumbass

>>18538049
wow, so you're saying you still need dollars to pay your dollar-denominated debt, dumbass? if you take out a loan collaterized by real estate, are you paying your loan in real estate coins? no. you're still paying back in dollars. the fucking cope.

>>18536863
Who cares about shitcoins? There's only 1 bitcoin and in about a week I'm buying more.

Enjoy your inflated fiat currency and don't forget to keep these cope threads coming.

>>18536863
Kek, stay poor faggot

>>18537928
utility tokens aren't trying to be money. also, we already have dozens of different traditional fiat currencies so who cares if some cryptos are competing to be money?

>>18537943
>wrong. you can pay taxes with it. you can pay dollar denominated debt with it.
And the reason you can do these things is because of the collective sentiment and trust behind the USD. There is no inherent value of a dollar bill besides maybe snorting cocaine. A 1 dollar bill is equally inherently valuable to a 100.
>there is literally nothing guaranteeing that bitcoin or any other shitcoin does not go to 0.
And the same is true of USD. We've seen many currencies fail due to coups, government corruption, natural disasters, genocides, etc. The same could happen with USD. Extremely unlikely, but certainly no guarantee against it. Meanwhile we can guarantee that even in the event of war, famine, and complete civilizational collapse, gold will still conduct electricity and have a place in the world, and diamond will still look brilliant and cut most other materials.

>>18538071
As a lazy entitled millennial who can't afford real estate, it sounds way more hassle free to use easily purchased ETH as collateral rather than real estate. No credit checks needed, and most of us have shit credit. I'm going to bet on my demographic.

>>18537564
They’re 16 aren’t they

>>18538043
There is literally no correlation between what I said and what you said. But it's alright, everyone learns at their speed.

>only way of gaining value is by bringing in bigger fools
You're not wrong here, but do not forget that this applies to everything. Gold is not essential, and there would have zero value if not for "bigger fools" to go crazy after it. I'll explain in terms you'll understand.

The difference between USD or any money for that matter and Crypto is actually quite a lot. Crypto is closer to gold, where it is finite, therefore we can not infinitely produce it. USD is. Let's say all BTC is mined up in the next 10 years, it will be finished and BTC will have a fixed value (to some extent), will the USD be printed enough at that same point in time? No it wouldn't. Therefore, even though both currencies are fixed by the centralized banks, crypto/BTC is more valuable. Hope you understood it.

>>18538107
>utility tokens aren't trying to be money.
...then what are they trying to be

>so who cares if some cryptos are competing to be money?
no one cares. that's why 99% of them are going go 0.

>>18538117
>And the reason you can do these things is because of the collective sentiment and trust behind the USD
the reason you can pay taxes in dollars is because a bunch of guys with guns said you can. not so with any crypto.

>There is no inherent value of a dollar bill besides maybe snorting cocaine
aside from paying taxes, you are not wrong, but that is a big aside. pretty disingenuous to leave that part out and act like it doesn't matter.

>And the same is true of USD
look, i think the USD is going to zero as well, but it has inherent value as long as the american regime exists solely because it is needed to pay taxes and it is needed to pay dollar-denominated debt. other than these two things, yes, it is identical to crypto, but even worse.

saying crypto is valuable because fiat is equally as worthless is still a pretty poor argument for crypto.

Ethereum and Chainlink aren't currencies and aren't trying to be currencies. They have inherent utility within their networks. If you haven't done enough research to figure that out then this thread is a waste of space. You have a complete misconception of that they are trying to do.

>>18537710
welcome to the digital world!

>>18536863
dr;ns

Most of you are all right. Some of you are raised by brainlet boomers. Stay poor.

>>18536863
The short answer is that people do not invest in crypto, they play like poker with the volatile of prices, invest is something to do with a vision for a long term.

>>18538144
you can collateralize a loan with anything that the lender recognizes as having value, so this would be a "false dichotomy"

>>18538160
>but do not forget that this applies to everything
whereas not technically wrong, no one believes that demand for industrial metals is randomly going to go to 0. it is wholly unrealistic to expect gold to go to 0 as it is for any other industrial input like iron, rubber, etc.

>Crypto is closer to gold, where it is finite
crypto is not like gold. there is no limit to the amount of crypto coins that can be invented (and thus competing against every other crypto, lowering all of their value). it also has no real-world applications like gold does.

>will the USD be printed enough at that same point in ti
saying crypto is better than fiat isn't saying much at all.

now don't get me wrong, i believe there might be some crypto that end up having value if the technology is there for ease of commerce, but it's certainly not going to be bitcoin, and look how valuable that is. there is clearly a giant crypto bubble out there waiting to pop and everyone who believes in it is a fool.

>>18538197
>the reason you can pay taxes in dollars is because a bunch of guys with guns said you can. not so with any crypto.
Which is a collective sentiment, not an inherent feature of the USD. The gov could announce Monday that they are abandoning USD and using crypto now and maybe EUR as a reserve, and the USD would collapse. Yet nothing about it changed. And this is because the value of the USD was not inherent to the USD itself, but rather the collective sentiment
>aside from paying taxes, you are not wrong, but that is a big aside. pretty disingenuous to leave that part out and act like it doesn't matter.
I didn't leave it out, that was what I directly responded to
>look, i think the USD is going to zero as well, but it has inherent value as long as the american regime exists solely because it is needed to pay taxes and it is needed to pay dollar-denominated debt. other than these two things, yes, it is identical to crypto, but even worse.
I don't necessarily think USD is going to zero, but rather it will eventually be relegated to the dustbin like european benchmark currencies in the past
>saying crypto is valuable because fiat is equally as worthless is still a pretty poor argument for crypto.
Neither is worthless - this is key - but the value of both is not inherent to the items themselves. Crypto is almost a social exposé/redpill on what USD actually has been for decades - which is that its value exists because people believe it exists. it's a flexible, moveable indicator of shared trust among people, in order to distribute value, and really nothing more. once the same sentiment reaches critical mass for crypto, suddenly *boom* crypto has value.

>>18538286
Great, and a stake in the Ethereum network is probably one of the easiest forms of collateral to acquire. That in itself gives it value.

>>18538331
>Which is a collective sentiment, not an inherent feature of the USD
yes, which is why USD is eventually going to zero, but that can't happen as long as the american regime exists. there is no such floor under the price of any crypto.

>he gov could announce Monday that they are abandoning USD
disingenuous. everyone knows this isn't going to happen.

>>18538349
>a stake in the Ethereum network is probably one of the easiest forms of collateral to acquire
uh, no? the easiest form of collateral to acquire is your local currency.

>>18538349
>a stake in the Ethereum network is probably one of the easiest forms of collateral to acquire
i think it's time to admit that you don't know what you're talking about

>>18538385
The value of my local currency is going to 0, though.

>>18538385
>>Which is a collective sentiment, not an inherent feature of the USD
>yes, which is why USD is eventually going to zero, but that can't happen as long as the american regime exists. there is no such floor under the price of any crypto.
>>he gov could announce Monday that they are abandoning USD
>disingenuous. everyone knows this isn't going to happen.
My argument is that the USD only has value due to collective trust. You seem to be arguing that the collective trust should stick around for a while due to the stability and power of the US government. I agree that that's the case, but that does not refute what I am saying. That still is not inherent value of the USD in action. I don't see how this conversation can go any further.

>>18538432
my argument isn't complex. the value of the dollar is derived from the fact that you are forced to use it by people with guns. this isn't hard to understand.

>>18538431
sucks for the lender then. doesn't change anything.

>>18538467
Wait do you think cryptocurrencies are only considered valuable as a means of transaction? Have you considered them as an abstraction of the value of the network upon which they operate?

Where are all these boomers coming from talking shit about crypto? They clearly have no understanding of the technology at all and are bashing it out of pure ignorant talking points.

>>18538524
>Wait do you think cryptocurrencies are only considered valuable as a means of transaction?
no, i think they're only considered value at the moment because they are in a bubble and everyone who owns it believes there is going to be a bigger fool who will buy it from them at a higher price.

>Have you considered them as an abstraction of the value of the network upon which they operate?
this doesn't actually mean anything. average joe retard does not give a single fuck about muh decentralization, and you need to convince him for your shitcoin to ever take off and become real money.

>>18538559
>you need to convince him for your shitcoin to ever take off and become real money

No I don't, I only need companies to utilize the network, which will require them to purchase the token. You are clearly not a forward-thinking person.

>>18538597
>I only need companies to utilize the networ
which they won't do unless they think joe retard will actually want to pay them in shitcoin

>You are clearly not a forward-thinking person.
i already said i believe there might be a crypto, with superior technology, that the free market decides is a valuable medium of exchange, but none of you mouth-breathers know which one it's going to be and are just gambling on a giant bubble, and it probably has not even been invented yet, and even if it has, it will probably get replaced by a new one, which will get replaced by a new one, and so on.

>>18538634
Boomer doesn't get it. Joe retard will not be buying link, and will not be purchasing goods with it. Stay poor.

>>18538700
>arguments given: 0
thanks that's how i know i've won. nothing feels better.

>>18537710
Are you retarded? Who the fuck cares? Only broke mother fuckers debate this shit. Do you think any markets are sane and make sense? Look at the stock market currently. Its full of fucking shit. Wake the fuck up dude.

>>18538525
>Lauren southern's sister is older, but looks younger and hotter than her
>Lauren is a bitter tradfem while her sister is a liberal that streams and makes more money than her

>>18538753
I'll give you one last try to understand, because I want to give everyone a shot. Nobody will buy goods using LINK, ok? It's not trying to replace the dollar. The Chainlink oracle network will be utilized by specific actors seeking access to specific, high quality data feeds. In order to access these data feeds, they will need to pay in LINK tokens. Yes, it's currently a speculative market. The LINK token value increases proportionally to the utilization of the network. The network utility is coded into the token, so that access to the network cannot be supplanted by the USD. It is a utility token, not a currency.

>>18538876
They're kikes, they play both sides.

>>18538896
>Nobody will buy goods using LINK
quote the post where i ever said that

>>18538978
You imply it when you say Joe retard will be paying the company with the token.

>>18536863
sniff

>>18538997
no, i don't. can't say i'm surprised that once again people on the internet are arguing against a straw man.

>>18539024
Sorry that I misinterpreted then. Sounds like you are beginning to understand the value of utility tokens now though, congratulations! Hopefully you don't stay poor.

>>18538286
>crypto is not like gold. there is no limit to the amount of crypto coins that can be invented
correct, but this is also why bitcoin is the only crypto actually worth buying and storing in an address off the exchange. Because it is the first, there will always be more cryptocurrencies in the future, but bitcoin is the first. That alone is what gives it value. It exists as a scarce entity BECAUSE it is bitcoin, and not any of the other thousands of altcoins.

>>18536863
>I really don't understand why you guys invest in cryptocurrency.

Most people are currently bagholding. There's no point in convincing them. They're too far gone.

>>18537049
>produce a good.
you sure about that buckeroo?

>>18536863
>invest
LMAO
ponzi scams for retards