/biz/ - Business & Finance

Probably hard-scrabble boostrap entrepreneur.

no. you definitely have to be a certain personality type though

>>1844094
No, I do it and it taught me a lot of important skills that I can transfer to other areas of my life. Closing a deal isn't that much different than convincing a drunk girl at a bar to go home with you.

>>1844094
No. Life is about selling, yourself, your product, your view. It's gives you power, it gives you wealth. A good salesman is a good man with a good life.

Tech
Beta males
>Finance, medicine
Cuck to bureaucracy
>>1844111
>Entrepreneur
Possibly but only if not cucked to VC. Nice GET tho
>Sales
If skilled enough you get true independence and power

Hard to say between legit sales and legit entrepreneur

Wanting to get into sales. The actual presenting and stuff. Can you recommend books on it?

I've read How to make friends and influence people and maybe a few salesish but not sales sales.

Can I pump jnug on stocktwits with my lips

>>1844094
Yeah. Literally any job where you sell a service based on your personal abilities.

We are in a weird time where technical abilities have been supplanting the 'alpha' sales areas. Doesn't matter how good of a stock broker, insurance salesman, or auto dealer you are -- if the technician can create a better (more efficient) marketplace, you'll be soon displaced.

>>1844094
>>1844128

Advertising isn't sales, you goons.

Also OP, sales is for slimy faggots. If you want to be alpha then do something practical - make something or fix something. You won't make much money unless you get good enough at it to start your own business. That's easy to fuck up though.

>>1844361

low end mass "cold calling" jobs are for slimy faggots

Real "sales" are boss dudes who can help take a great start up idea and shell of a company to a 10-20M dollar company just through their sales expertise alone.

This is done by knowing how to talk to C-suite level execs at different companies that will buy your product or service.

It sounds trivial until you meet and see these types of guys in action. They're a rare breed, often family time guys who are unassuming but extremely valuable to an organization just from their ability to talk and create relationships alone

>>1844094

>sales
>alpha

Sales is a woman's job

Most salesmen have rather unpleasant female traits

Sales is what the elite convinced the middle class was an alpha job

Literally replaceable middle men that create nothing

Enjoy that commission

The true alpha is in fund management. Billions versus a rolex? Heh. Nice try kid.

>>1844393

And then you discovered enterprise software sales and virtually all high end corporate type sales/technical sales are by and large dominated by males

Are commercial real estate brokers "sales"?

>>1844094
>alpha

If you mean being phoney and begging people to buy stuff then I would say yes.

>sales
>alpha
pick one

being in sales is literally the opposite of being alpha

>>1844094
Yes, it is.

Anyone saying otherwise is a highschooler. Sales is a fantastic profession. Some of these responses are utterly hilarious- they have zero idea what modern sales is

>>1844094

being in sales is trying to make the buyer believe they are the alpha that made the decision.

Hard to be alpha when u are making other people believe they are believing they are in control.

>>1844403
I am one and yes - It's sales and sales only.

>>1844361
>If you want to be alpha then do something practical - make something or fix something.

Geek Squad alpha reporting in

>>1844094

Maybe CEO or President.

But no, a great salesman is a killing machine. They will always be in demand, always be loved, and will always have power.

ITT: people who watch too many movies.

Sales is possibly the least alpha thing you can do.

It's a low-skill, low-education trade with no barrier to entry that's completely demeaning: you don't "play hardball" like in the movies, you kiss ass and congratulate the ugly bald asshole CEO for insulting your cheap suit with such a clever joke.

The best part of being an entrepreneur is you don't have to take shit from anybody because nobody's your boss, and if you have a problem with a customer, guess what? "The price just doubled for you."

As a salesman, EVERYBODY's your boss, and often that means the lowliest nigger in the most dangerous part of town (where many superstar insurance salesman thrived).

>>1844400
Nice get but I addressed this in >>1844199


In finance your life belongs to your boss. Therefore an eternal cuck

>>1844703
M Economics; MBA; Successful manager for 5 years; Your own boss

>>1844684

Wow sounds like you don't know what sales is.

Sales isn't being a sleazy used car dealer. It's everywhere.

If you're an entrepreneur your most important job is fucking selling. You should know this.

>>1844094
you must take shit from customers fuck that, finance's the way 2 go m8

>>1844995
I send customers out my door if they give me shit.

>>1844684
This.

You get a lousy wage to beg someone to buy your bossman's product.

Doctors by a long shot.
Any salesman is thought of as a slimy jew.

>>1844415
>>1844465
>>1844466
t. socially awkward betas who can't close with a customer nor with a girl
>>1844684
You may be right about entrepreneurs being even more alpha but if you don't realize the high similarity between entrepreneurship and sales you're a retard.

>Entrepreneur
If you sell your product you can tell everyone to fuck off

>Sales
If you sell your product you can tell everyone to fuck off

>>1844721
Lol pretty much. When sales comes up it's so telling as to how old people are in the thread.

Sales is pretty much consulting with a specific goal in mind. You don't sell complicated products with a toothpick in your teeth flipping a quarter. It's a very difficult and complicated process and you have to work with the management team to produce results.

You make great money because you need the perfect triangle of
1) Body
- speaking ability, athletic competency, appearance, comfortability, stress-free

2) Mind
- Psychology, empathy, cultural understandings, patience, ability to deal with multiple levels of customers (CEO to secretary [this is harder than you think])

3) Technical
- Ability to understand your complicated product and sell it to somebody who has more knowledge than you on its use.
- The ability to not sound like an idiot. The ability to answer a PhD Engineer's questions on how your product will improve his process
Very few people can hit all 3 of these levels and every word I mentioned is vital. Some people have all of these levels but no patience, SOL. Some have all of these levels but don't want to deal with a dipshit low level employee who has to "quickly" pass something through the system.

>>1845327
So what's the difference with consulting then? Is it not focused on a specific target too?

>>1845356
Consulting can use anyone's product and focus on any part of the business.
How do me and my sales team make their company more profitable with our software/equipment/tech?

It's a chicken vs egg type deal realistically

>>1844094
Marketing. You are literally god. You control peoples thoughts, emotions, and manipulate them. Unlike the salesman, you can reach millions or billions of people.

>>1844558
Cool I just started at M&M

>>1845356
There's not a whole lot of difference. But there is a difference between a traveling vacuum salesman who decides on what product you need based on whether or not you have shag carpet vs. someone selling enterprise-level software who has to actually really guage client needs before they can offer them a quote on services.

I love sales, even though it freaked me the fulk out when I first started.

My company has never had any sales people who weren't white males, for whatever that's worth. If I was a short Mexican sitting in my office, I doubt anyone would buy from me.

The other nice thing about sales is that the higher you quote people, the greater the perceived value of the product is.

>>1844094
The sales men are usually the least informed of the business and kept the most in the dark about the interworkings of the company they work for cuz the CEO knows they can't keep their mouth shut. They are hired because the boss doesn't want to do that crappy work.

The sales guy has this delusion that the company wouldn't be there if it weren't for him. You under write the business by going on the road even if you're given an expense allowance. You get fucked over on commissions. Once you build an account, management always finds a way to turn it into a house account.

The salesmen like to think they're alphas to cover up the crazy disconnect they have with reality; they're just first class bull shitters. They can't do all the follow up and administrative work that the support team does to facilitate the transaction and yet they think it's all their doing. Once they have to do follow up they run and scream like stuck pigs.

If you think selling is alpha than you've been sold a line of shit by a salesman. They revel in feeling like they're in control because they think they freely manipulate any situation. They think the sale is all there work; not the product, not the demand, not anything but them.

Don't buy into this silly myth. Spend a dozen years or so doing it and not have a shit to show for it and you'll see what I mean. They're are alphas in every discipline but the true ones are those who'll take the risks to get what they want. I won't work for anyone but myself ever again because the sales managers were fuckin betas who thought they were hot shit when all they knew was whose ass to kiss and which pack to run with.

Yes, everyone sells but career salesmen, which is a hell of alot different than it was 20 years ago, are usually the biggest dumbest tree trunks in the forest.

>>1844263
Just learn your product and outline what's important and present it. A good salesperson can make a good product great but great salesperson can't make a mediocre product great.

>>1844327
Agree completely...

>>1844094
Yes.

Law.

>>1844393
It is now because the economy is driven by consumer spending. Woman make up 80% of all consumer spending.

>>1844402
Good luck with that. Don't get replaced or laid off.

>>1844468
Then you sir are one of the very FEW and should count yourself very fortunate.

THIS RECAPCHA IS A PAIN IN THE GONADS

>>1844094
Sales is the chice of the fake alpha son.

>>1845737
Put all your replies in one post you stupid cunt

I have literally never met a salesman who I didn't hate. They are all just burnouts who barely made it through school. They all have the 'alpha' attitude but really it's just the same bro-culture they've cultivated since freshman year. Everything from their personality to their pitches are complete bullshit. In a perfect world they wouldn't exist because people would buy products based on pure merit versus price. But since one firm uses bullshitters to push their shit products now every firm has to hire bullshitters to compete purely with those original bullshitters. I cannot wait for the complete takeover by digital marketplaces.

>>1845716
>>1845720
>>1845723
>>1845728
>>1845732
>>1845735
>>1845737